(28 Dec 2021, 8:05 pm)L469 YVK wrote But, if they did, CLS to Stanley for remote reliefs is less mileage than CLS to Hownsgill.

You're then adding in resources to facilitate driver changeovers at Stanley from Chester. That's dead mileage in a van or bus to a depot which currently has next to no dead mileage for driver changeovers as of the top of my head, Chester changeovers all occur at the Front Street/South Burns.

Consett, all changeovers at some stage involve dead mileage. Drivers there all either have to take a bus up to Consett or Stanley - whether that's running light to/from the depot to start/end points, or just using a bus as a shuttle to relieve a service at Consett/Stanley.

Keep the resources where they're needed anyway instead of diluting them. Not every X30/X31 changeover happens at Stanley anyway if its changed at Consett as an X70/X71. The only way I could think of avoiding it would be to interwork it with an X21, but the frequency wouldn't make it an easy interwork and you'd probably have to magic some low height deckers out of thin air which won't happen.

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(28 Dec 2021, 8:27 pm)Wybus wrote I’m sure pre Covid I remember long queues at peak times for the X84/X85 in Eldon Square, and didn’t GNE used to run an additional peak hour trip (used to be something that did a Team Valley then a short 12 then an X85 as I recall), it’s strange how it’s gone from this to such a big reduction

When all the workers return to their offices when we are back to normal they are going to no doubt have to find an alternative way to travel home, unless they can all fit on an hourly Versa.

Workers aren't going to be returning to the office, though. Remote working is now the future, hence why the bus industry is one of those significantly struggling to recover from this pandemic. We're never 'going back to normal' per se.

(29 Dec 2021, 2:00 am)BeachBoy99 wrote Workers aren't going to be returning to the office, though. Remote working is now the future, hence why the bus industry is one of those significantly struggling to recover from this pandemic. We're never 'going back to normal' per se.

People keep saying this and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I give the whole remote working thing another year, at most. In fact, most people I know who had to work from home were literally celebrating when they were allowed back in the office. 
The company that one of my friends worked for gave up part of their office space during COVID as they believed remote working was the future, now they're regretting it as everyone wanted to be back in the office, and they actually had a few leave when they were told they didn't have space.

I've worked from 'home' for years, but I didn't realise how much of that time I spent working from places that weren't home until I couldn't go to them!
Even as someone who has a dedicated office, I find actually working at home for extended periods of time quite difficult as I get constantly distracted and side tracked, hence why I would often just go to Spoons or IKEA for coffee.

You would think that if the reason for less people using the bus was because they're working from home, then car traffic would also be down as they don't all travel by bus. But no, traffic is worse than it used to be, it's almost as if all that scaremongering about public transport being dirty and dangerous is what stopped people using it!

(29 Dec 2021, 8:54 am)streetdeckfan wrote People keep saying this and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I give the whole remote working thing another year, at most.

So do you expect operators to keep sustaining huge losses for another year - just in case everyone suddenly goes back to the office within the next 12 months?

There has to be an element of realism here. Bus operators lost the funding that was taking them to breakeven point back in September, so are now hugely loss-making as they have the burden of full costs with around 70% of revenue/passengers.

Whilst I’m not an advocate of slashing services and reducing the size of the network, operators losing 7-figure sums must be realistic and build back from a sensible base. The X9 and the X85 are all ‘recent’ developments and built upon the existing foundations to deliver growth. The market has completely changed, there’s no denying that, but as well as looking at new opportunities, operators need to be thinking about building upon a sensible foundation until sufficient demand returns.

Building upon a sensible foundation is easier if operators are more collaborative with each other, and with other modes such as Metro and rail.


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(29 Dec 2021, 8:54 am)streetdeckfan wrote People keep saying this and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I give the whole remote working thing another year, at most. In fact, most people I know who had to work from home were literally celebrating when they were allowed back in the office. 
The company that one of my friends worked for gave up part of their office space during COVID as they believed remote working was the future, now they're regretting it as everyone wanted to be back in the office, and they actually had a few leave when they were told they didn't have space.

You would think that if the reason for less people using the bus was because they're working from home, then car traffic would also be down as they don't all travel by bus. But no, traffic is worse than it used to be, it's almost as if all that scaremongering about public transport being dirty and dangerous is what stopped people using it!

It's not rubbish at all - the sooner the heads come out of the sand on this, the better. Companies aren't going back - the majority of people are happy at home. The 'great resignation' is all about this flexibility - business recruitment has opened up nationally. It isn't the future - it's the now!

Hybrid actually pushes people into cars. They have to run the car less which makes it cheaper and the lack of flexibility in ticketing makes the car more attractive.

(28 Dec 2021, 11:21 pm)peter wrote My prediction would be that 6331-6333 will head to Chester for the 21/X21, 6301-6307 could go to Washington for X1 spares and then to have the same number of Euro 6 vehicles funded for by South Tyneside Council for the 50, then 6336/8-40 for the Consett expresses, with 1 spare out of 6356-6363, plus 6064.

Ah maybe, thanks Peter.

(29 Dec 2021, 1:59 am)6049 wrote You're then adding in resources to facilitate driver changeovers at Stanley from Chester. That's dead mileage in a van or bus to a depot which currently has next to no dead mileage for driver changeovers as of the top of my head, Chester changeovers all occur at the Front Street/South Burns.

Consett, all changeovers at some stage involve dead mileage.  Drivers there all either have to take a bus up to Consett or Stanley - whether that's running light to/from the depot to start/end points, or just using a bus as a shuttle to relieve a service at Consett/Stanley.

Keep the resources where they're needed anyway instead of diluting them. Not every X30/X31 changeover happens at Stanley anyway if its changed at Consett as an X70/X71. The only way I could think of avoiding it would be to interwork it with an X21, but the frequency wouldn't make it an easy interwork and you'd probably have to magic some low height deckers out of thin air which won't happen.

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I know most X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 changeovers happen at Consett unless it's the odd run where it so happens a driver needs changed at Stanley.

It was more mentioning should GNE ever need to increase running / recovery times on the X30's and X70's going forward meaning that interworking patterns would no doubt need to change with the X30/X31 no longer interworking with the X70/X71/X72.

But your point (I know Dan did mention it too) about keeping at Consett regardless of mileage does make sense if CLS do little or no remote changeovers. Vehicle allocations is another debate but that's already been discussed and put to bed.

(29 Dec 2021, 8:54 am)streetdeckfan wrote People keep saying this and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I give the whole remote working thing another year, at most. In fact, most people I know who had to work from home were literally celebrating when they were allowed back in the office. 
The company that one of my friends worked for gave up part of their office space during COVID as they believed remote working was the future, now they're regretting it as everyone wanted to be back in the office, and they actually had a few leave when they were told they didn't have space.

I've worked from 'home' for years, but I didn't realise how much of that time I spent working from places that weren't home until I couldn't go to them!
Even as someone who has a dedicated office, I find actually working at home for extended periods of time quite difficult as I get constantly distracted and side tracked, hence why I would often just go to Spoons or IKEA for coffee.

You would think that if the reason for less people using the bus was because they're working from home, then car traffic would also be down as they don't all travel by bus. But no, traffic is worse than it used to be, it's almost as if all that scaremongering about public transport being dirty and dangerous is what stopped people using it!

If people in secure jobs can work at home, MOJ, UKAEA, then so can everyone else. The civil service has jumped on remote working and is set for the future. The days of the Cobalt are over, the savings for remote working are enormous and when the ministry says yes, the rest follow.

(29 Dec 2021, 11:53 am)54APhotography wrote If people in secure jobs can work at home, MOJ, UKAEA, then so can everyone else. The civil service has jumped on remote working and is set for the future. The days of the Cobalt are over, the savings for remote working are enormous and when the ministry says yes, the rest follow.

Not exactly though. Some companies with offoces elsewhere in the country but looking for a cheaper location than the likes of London, Leeds, Manchester etc might actually decide to up ship and move to the likes of Cobalt etc.

Thankfully, GNE have streamlined the Cobalt & Coast services to actually make money other ways, especially the 309 now being seen as a viable alternative to the 308 in most instances.

(29 Dec 2021, 8:54 am)streetdeckfan wrote People keep saying this and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I give the whole remote working thing another year, at most. In fact, most people I know who had to work from home were literally celebrating when they were allowed back in the office. 
The company that one of my friends worked for gave up part of their office space during COVID as they believed remote working was the future, now they're regretting it as everyone wanted to be back in the office, and they actually had a few leave when they were told they didn't have space.

I've worked from 'home' for years, but I didn't realise how much of that time I spent working from places that weren't home until I couldn't go to them!
Even as someone who has a dedicated office, I find actually working at home for extended periods of time quite difficult as I get constantly distracted and side tracked, hence why I would often just go to Spoons or IKEA for coffee.

You would think that if the reason for less people using the bus was because they're working from home, then car traffic would also be down as they don't all travel by bus. But no, traffic is worse than it used to be, it's almost as if all that scaremongering about public transport being dirty and dangerous is what stopped people using it!

Sadly, it's not a load of rubbish. The majority of people would prefer to be working in the comfort of their own home where they don't need to get out of bed at 6am for a commute to the office. It's obviously beneficial for employers as well with not having to dish out money on rent, so it's a win-win situation. Fair enough you say some people celebrated when they were allowed back to the office (I'd be one of those people for certain), however there are also some actually complaining when they've applied for a certain job because it doesn't provide a flexible, working from home option.

That's a fair point on the car traffic still on the rise - it's likely to do with car travel being more convenient. We're just living in miserable times where some industries have little to no hope left, and it needs to change.

(29 Dec 2021, 12:53 pm)L469 YVK wrote Not exactly though. Some companies with offoces elsewhere in the country but looking for a cheaper location than the likes of London, Leeds, Manchester etc might actually decide to up ship and move to the likes of Cobalt etc.

Thankfully, GNE have streamlined the Cobalt & Coast services to actually make money other ways, especially the 309 now being seen as a viable alternative to the 308 in most instances.

The secure intranet available means secure jobs are now remote. The offices moving away from London will go to Tory constituencies, that's already been decided.

I've just realised something with the X45/X46 frequency drop. GNE have actually made a smart move. Now NO, I'm not going to say the change will happen or even vehicle allocations for that matter. But..........

- X45/X46 - Every 20 mins
- X70/X71/X72 - Every 20 mins

It would give GNE another option to interwork these groups of services moving forward should it be needed.

Total PVR would be 14x and round trips would be 4hr30m. Minimum layover with the exception of the X72 at Stanley would be 10 mins.

X45-X71-X45
X45 ex CON - 00:12 > 01:15 NCL
X71 ex NCL - 01:25 > 02:20 CON
X71 ex CON - 02:34 > 03:32 NCL
X45 ex NCL - 03:42 > 04:40 CON

X46-X70-X45
X46 ex CON - 00:32 > 01:35 NCL
X70 ex NCL - 01:45 > 02:40 CON
X70 ex CON - 02:54 > 03:52 NCL
X45 ex NCL - 04:02 > 05:02 CON

X45-X72-X46
X45 ex CON - 00:52 > 01:55 NCL
X72 ex NCL - 02:05 > 03:03 STY
X72 ex STY - 03:10 > 04:12 NCL
X46 ex NCL - 04:22 > 05:22 CON

In fact, I don't even know what could be allocated for that interworking pattern, would be a headache to work out trying to do without a mixed fleet allocation.

Or a better one and this would in fact simplify the vehicle allocations as well as providing more even gaps between the X45/X46 and X70/X71.

*PVR of X30/X31/X45/X46 - 12x E400MMC*
X45-X30-X31-X45
X45 ex CON - 02:04 - 03:07 NCL
X30 ex NCL - 03:15 - 03:53 STY
X31 ex STY - 04:05 - 04:46 NCL
X45 ex NCL - 04:55 - 05:55 CON

X46-X31-X30-X46
X46 ex CON - 02:24 - 03:27 NCL
X31 ex NCL - 03:35 - 04:14 STY
X30 ex STY - 04:26 - 05:06 NCL
X46 ex NCL - 05:15 - 06:15 CON

X45-X31-X31-X45
X45 ex CON - 02:44 - 03:47 NCL
X30 ex NCL - 03:55 - 04:34 STY
X31 ex STY - 04:45 - 05:26 NCL
X45 ex NCL - 05:35 - 06:35 CON

*PVR of X70/X71/X72 - 7x StreetDeck*
X70-X72-X72-X71
X70 ex CON - 01:57 - 02:55 NCL
X72 ex NCL - 03:05 - 04:03 STY
X72 ex STY - 04:13 - 05:15 NCL
X71 ex NCL - 05:25 - 06:20 CON

X72-X71-X71-X70
X72 ex STY - 02:13 - 03:15 NCL
X71 ex NCL - 03:25 - 04:20 CON
X71 ex CON - 04:37 - 05:35 NCL
X70 ex NCL - 05:45 - 06:40 CON

X71-X70-X70-X72
X71 ex CON - 02:37 - 03:35 NCL
X70 ex NCL - 03:45 - 04:40 CON
X70 ex CON - 04:57 - 05:55 NCL
X72 ex NCL - 06:05 - 07:03 STY

So as a result of the above, the Consett to Newcastle departures would be:

xx:04, xx:24, xx:37, xx:44, xx:57

And the Newcastle to Consett departures would be:

xx:15, xx:25, xx:35, xx:45, xx:55


Vehicle allocations to save money........E400MMCs kept in dark green but just branded Consett or Stanley to Newcastle. StreetDecks kept in light green with Red Kite stripped off and branded Consett - Sunniside - Gateshead - Newcastle

(30 Dec 2021, 1:15 pm)L469 YVK wrote Vehicle allocations to save money........E400MMCs kept in dark green but just branded Consett or Stanley to Newcastle. StreetDecks kept in light green with Red Kite stripped off and branded Consett - Sunniside - Gateshead - Newcastle

What are you basing the cost saving on? How many drivers would you need to resource your suggestion and how do they fit in to the existing duties for the depot?

(30 Dec 2021, 7:34 pm)Adrian wrote What are you basing the cost saving on? How many drivers would you need to resource your suggestion and how do they fit in to the existing duties for the depot?

The money saving for the internal vehicle re-allocation within Consett depot only (no other depots or services affected) would be down to the simple fact that no vehicles are partially / fully repainted, only slight tagline / vinyl changes would need made.

Driver resources is a different matter altogether. GNE have reduced the PVR of the X45/X46 by 2x. However, when driver retention / recruitment is hopefully sorted, an extra bus in the PVR wouldn't hurt the X30's / X70's given timings are rather tight. The total comvined PVR for Consett would still be 1x lower than currently (before 30th Jan changes).

So in a nutshell, if GNE later decided to take advantage of the revised X45/X46 frequency:

- X30/X31 revised to interwork with X45/X46 using 12x E400MMC (6340-51). The "fast into" bit changed to:
  * Consett or Stanley
  * Newcastle

- X70/X71/X72 standalone from X30/X31 using 7x StreetDeck. Any reference to Red Kite removed and the "fast into" bit changed to:
  * Consett
  * Sunniside
  * Gateshead
  * Newcastle

By the way, this or the last 2x posts regarding the X45/X46 aren't suggesting any changes will be made beyond the upcoming planned ones. But it just highlights that with all the Consett & Stanley to Newcastle each running a 20 minute combined frequency, it gives GNE more options and flexibility moving forward should they need it.

(29 Dec 2021, 8:40 pm)54APhotography wrote The secure intranet available means secure jobs are now remote. The offices moving away from London will go to Tory constituencies, that's already been decided.

Yeah, Husband's colleagues are now as far flung as Glasgow, Romania and Sunderland.

(29 Dec 2021, 8:40 pm)54APhotography wrote The secure intranet available means secure jobs are now remote. The offices moving away from London will go to Tory constituencies, that's already been decided.

Personally I think Cobalt will do alright as it's quite easy to get to and has useful amenities on the doorstep like The Village for example for people to stop over and it's just off the A19 but in taxi distance from Newcastle Central. I believe BT/EE has already committed for it to be one of it's new hubs for call centres and Sage has just moved it's HQ there which will always be there. Similar with Quorum I think will survive long term aswell being so close to Newcastle with BT/EE also committing to keeping the massive call centre opposite near Greggs (who also won't be going anywhere).

It's the likes of Peterlee, Rainton, Regent Centre and Doxford Park which are in big trouble. In the middle of nowhere with nothing at all for people wanting to stay over or awkward to get to using long distance public transport. EE at Doxford is on borrowed time imo.

What changes are being made to the 42/42A from 4th January? I hope the 684 continues to serve Denton Burn and Fenham in the long term and I'd like to see the evening and Sunday trips return in the future.

(31 Dec 2021, 8:22 am)Storx wrote Personally I think Cobalt will do alright as it's quite easy to get to and has useful amenities on the doorstep like The Village for example for people to stop over and it's just off the A19 but in taxi distance from Newcastle Central. I believe BT/EE has already committed for it to be one of it's new hubs for call centres and Sage has just moved it's HQ there which will always be there. Similar with Quorum I think will survive long term aswell being so close to Newcastle with BT/EE also committing to keeping the massive call centre opposite near Greggs (who also won't be going anywhere).

It's the likes of Peterlee, Rainton, Regent Centre and Doxford Park which are in big trouble. In the middle of nowhere with nothing at all for people wanting to stay over or awkward to get to using long distance public transport. EE at Doxford is on borrowed time imo.

Rainton Bridge is slap bang between the A1 and A19. Doxford Intl couldn't get closer to the A19 unless it was located in the central reservation. 
They're both just as close to railway stations (Durham for Rainton Bridge) and Sunderland Doxford Park - if not closer, than Quorum is to Central Station.
Granted buses to both parks are limited (as most are), but Rainton Bridge have just had Just Eat move in. The other side is full of JIT suppliers to Nissan who sit alongside NEA, TWFRS and Fed Ex.

The previous owners of the Rainton Meadows arena has long pushed for a budget chain hotel to be built on the site. 
Until it comes off (if it ever does), visitors to both business parks, have the choice of the Chilton Country Club, the Highfield Hotel or the Ramside. All within spitting distance.

Sunderland Council have just spent a fortune on the A19/A690 interchange and they're improving pedestrian access to Doxford Intl (cos public transport provision in to the park is poor and people tend to get off the bus on Durham Road).
Sunderland Council have also just released plans to allocate part of the A690 in the Houghton area to cycle lanes. Presumably to encourage commuters to Rainton Bridge, to make the switch. 

I'm not aware of any sites on Rainton being empty and the only one that's empty on Doxford (that I'm aware of), is the old Reg Vardy Head Office. Apart from a short period of use when the Stoneygate site was being redeveloped and it pretended it was a dealership, Stratstone/Evans Halshaw (Pendragon) have been trying to flog it for the best part of 15 years.

When will these month's changes be fully announced if still going ahead?

(10 Jan 2022, 6:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote When will these month's changes be fully announced if still going ahead?

They're all on VOSA now so seems as though they will still be happening.

Some are up on bus times as well

New timetables now up on the GNE site

-Hexham interworkings aren't immediately obvious - looks like the 680/684/688 will interwork in a roundabout sort of way, as well as the 686/687/689.
-The 55/X20 are now equally spaced from Sunderland, while on the X1 the :19 journeys will extend to Dalton Park and the :49 journeys to Peterlee.
-Looks like the 10/10A/10B will all interwork as opposed to the 10 being standalone
-Overall looks to be nothing that we didn't already know about

(11 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm)peter wrote New timetables now up on the GNE site

-Hexham interworkings aren't immediately obvious - looks like the 680/684/688 will interwork in a roundabout sort of way, as well as the 686/687/689.
-The 55/X20 are now equally spaced from Sunderland, while on the X1 the :19 journeys will extend to Dalton Park and the :49 journeys to Peterlee.
-Looks like the 10/10A/10B will all interwork as opposed to the 10 being standalone
-Overall looks to be nothing that we didn't already know about

I was certainly under the impression that the 680/684/688 would all interwork with one another which also goes some way as to the allocation of Versas at Hexham on the 684 as a replacement for the E400MMCs.

687/689 already confirmed to be interworking with Consett doing some 687 runs between the 689 to/from Consett, presumably the other journeys will be the bus that does the 686 off peak. 686 is cut to run Prudhoe to Wylam only apart from the first Prudhoe trip starting from Corbridge, St Helens Lane and the last one from Prudhoe terminating at Corbridge.

684 will also run to Queen Elizabeth High School at school times

Another thing to note is that the X10 will return to departing from Eldon Square Bus Station, seemingly from the same stand as the X1.

(11 Jan 2022, 11:45 pm)Jimmi wrote I was certainly under the impression that the 680/684/688 would all interwork with one another which also goes some way as to the allocation of Versas at Hexham on the 684 as a replacement for the E400MMCs.

687/689 already confirmed to be interworking with Consett doing some 687 runs between the 689 to/from Consett, presumably the other journeys will be the bus that does the 686 off peak. 686 is cut to run Prudhoe to Wylam only apart from the first Prudhoe trip starting from Corbridge, St Helens Lane and the last one from Prudhoe terminating at Corbridge.

684 will also run to Queen Elizabeth High School at school times

Another thing to note is that the X10 will return to departing from Eldon Square Bus Station, seemingly from the same stand as the X1.

Yeah it deffo looks like they interwork, tho the pattern is quite complex with the 680/688 being every 2 hours as opposed to hourly, would say it's a PVR of either 4 or 5. Yeah the 687 interworking with the 686 and 689 accounts for most journeys but the ones around 08:00 and 15:00 are when the buses are on both the 686 and 689 so presumably they fit into the 680/684/688 pattern as well somehow. I'm sure BusTimes will reveal all when the timetables start.

(11 Jan 2022, 11:58 pm)peter wrote Yeah it deffo looks like they interwork, tho the pattern is quite complex with the 680/688 being every 2 hours as opposed to hourly, would say it's a PVR of either 4 or 5. Yeah the 687 interworking with the 686 and 689 accounts for most journeys but the ones around 08:00 and 15:00 are when the buses are on both the 686 and 689 so presumably they fit into the 680/684/688 pattern as well somehow. I'm sure BusTimes will reveal all when the timetables start.

I've come to the conclusion of 4 buses for the 680/684/688, off peak seems like two will be standalone 684 and two will be 680/684/688. The 687 seems to fit in with some of those boards on an afternoon at least (didn't work out the full day's boards as it gets a bit more confusing around school finish time)

(23 Dec 2021, 12:45 pm)Storx wrote Might aswell just bring back the 43/44 if doing that. There's been umpeen changes and everytime they're getting closer to where it all started anyway. Can't really remember anyone ever complaining about the routes either (excluding delays).

Leave the X72 alone. Thought it would be a white elephant but actually brilliant route . Quicker than  the X30 to The Arch south Moor if you incude walking time from the bus station. Does not seem too long from Newcastle

Full changes now online:

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/service-ch...30-january

(12 Jan 2022, 10:02 am)Michael wrote Full changes now online:

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/service-ch...30-january

I love how there's absolutely no mention of the huge downgrade in vehicles on the X84, sorry 684