(14 Jan 2022, 1:15 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote For Consett I'll be getting a GNE All Zones, but I don't know if Stanley Travel will be running the same duties next week and even if they are the X-lines bus might be the better option.

I might go to Whitley Bay instead, but I'm not sure which bus is the best or if the Metro is better. 308 is the quickest bus, Metro is quickest mode, GNE is the cheapest (£4, compared to Arriva £4.70 I think). Local buses in Whitley Bay are operated by Arriva rather than GNE though, for the most part. The Pulsars on the 306 look good, but 306 is the same journey time as GNE.

I don't want to derail this too much but Metro (via Four Lane Ends), Arriva, GNE is the best order to head towards Whitley Bay. The 685 should also have Pulsar's on. The 306 is a mix and is usually Enviro's more so nowadays. Anything from Jesmond is like rolling a dice lately what turns up. If you want to ride random buses just use the 52/53/54 at some point as literally anything could turn up from a baby Solo (not SR) to an Enviro 400.

The Gemini's on the 308 are nicer buses than the Pulsar's though imo.

(14 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx wrote I don't want to derail this too much but Metro (via Four Lane Ends), Arriva, GNE is the best order to head towards Whitley Bay. The 685 should also have Pulsar's on. The 306 is a mix and is usually Enviro's more so nowadays. Anything from Jesmond is like rolling a dice lately what turns up. If you want to ride random buses just use the 52/53/54 at some point as literally anything could turn up from a baby Solo (not SR) to an Enviro 400.

The Gemini's on the 308 are nicer buses than the Pulsar's though imo.

Me neither, I wasn't sure where is best to post it.

Metro, Arriva, GNE is definitely the order in terms of journey time. GNE is the cheapest and in theory is closest/best frequency to and from home (and best specification buses) . Arriva buses would make a change as I haven't travelled with them in about 16 years, and therefore I probably haven't been on a Pulsar. The 685 would be my bus home I guess, and I'd need a Tyne and Wear day ticket. Possibly just walk into Newcastle to save on bus fares (£4.70 for Arriva I think).

Of course I want to ride on different buses, I'm a bus enthusiast, but at the same time I don't think much of the crap StreetLites on the Coaster which rattle so much its good for the paracetamol industry! Likewise I do actually want to get to places, which makes using different vehicles and services difficult. Every type was on the 306 today. 52/53/54 is possible, but they all take an hour or so, the 308 is the only service to Whitley Bay on a 40 minute trip.

(14 Jan 2022, 10:46 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Me neither, I wasn't sure where is best to post it.

Metro, Arriva, GNE is definitely the order in terms of journey time. GNE is the cheapest and in theory is closest/best frequency to and from home (and best specification buses) . Arriva buses would make a change as I haven't travelled with them in about 16 years, and therefore I probably haven't been on a Pulsar. The 685 would be my bus home I guess, and I'd need a Tyne and Wear day ticket. Possibly just walk into Newcastle to save on bus fares (£4.70 for Arriva I think).

Of course I want to ride on different buses, I'm a bus enthusiast, but at the same time I don't think much of the crap StreetLites on the Coaster which rattle so much its good for the paracetamol industry! Likewise I do actually want to get to places, which makes using different vehicles and services difficult. Every type was on the 306 today. 52/53/54 is possible, but they all take an hour or so, the 308 is the only service to Whitley Bay on a 40 minute trip.

In my opinion, if it was all operated by SNE, it would be seemless. So many GNE routes thst could be run smoothly by SNE, the successor to the PTE. ?

(14 Jan 2022, 10:46 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Me neither, I wasn't sure where is best to post it.

Metro, Arriva, GNE is definitely the order in terms of journey time. GNE is the cheapest and in theory is closest/best frequency to and from home (and best specification buses) . Arriva buses would make a change as I haven't travelled with them in about 16 years, and therefore I probably haven't been on a Pulsar. The 685 would be my bus home I guess, and I'd need a Tyne and Wear day ticket. Possibly just walk into Newcastle to save on bus fares (£4.70 for Arriva I think).

Of course I want to ride on different buses, I'm a bus enthusiast, but at the same time I don't think much of the crap StreetLites on the Coaster which rattle so much its good for the paracetamol industry! Likewise I do actually want to get to places, which makes using different vehicles and services difficult. Every type was on the 306 today. 52/53/54 is possible, but they all take an hour or so, the 308 is the only service to Whitley Bay on a 40 minute trip.

Aye it is £4.70 unless you only use the 306 and 308 where there's a Coastliner Saver ticket which is £3.90 so slightly cheaper than GNE but obviously you can't use the 685 then where the Tyne and Wear ticket is valid.

There's Streetlites lingering around in N. Tyneside with Arriva aswell which are meant to be on the 52/53/54 but they're usually found on pretty much everything. The 308 100% won't be though as there isn't any at Blyth, that's pretty much guaranteed to be Gemini.

Also don't forget the 51 if you don't mind sitting on a battered Solo for 54 minutes, it's dead usually so you get a clean run.

(14 Jan 2022, 11:07 pm)Economic505 wrote In my opinion, if it was all operated by SNE, it would be seemless. So many GNE routes thst could be run smoothly by SNE, the successor to the PTE. ?

SNE is the worst operator in the North East. Everything should be operated by independent operators working in partnership.

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(14 Jan 2022, 11:19 pm)Storx wrote Aye it is £4.70 unless you only use the 306 and 308 where there's a Coastliner Saver ticket which is £3.90 so slightly cheaper than GNE but obviously you can't use the 685 then where the Tyne and Wear ticket is valid.

There's Streetlites lingering around in N. Tyneside with Arriva aswell which are meant to be on the 52/53/54 but they're usually found on pretty much everything. The 308 100% won't be though as there isn't any at Blyth, that's pretty much guaranteed to be Gemini.

Also don't forget the 51 if you don't mind sitting on a battered Solo for 54 minutes, it's dead usually so you get a clean run.

Yeah, GNE is the cheapest because the £4 North Tyne day ticket covers everything. Shame I don't live on the Coastliner route for the £3.90 ticket. 685 is my best option to get home. 

I thought Streetlites were good on the Nexus 32A, but there aren't really because of the rattles. Are the Arriva Streetlites as bad?

308 is the best option for Whitley Bay, although I'd like to ride a Pulsar some time. 

Thank you.

The hourly 684 is going to be a bit of a pain to plan around. Am I right in thinking GNE tickets will be valid on the 685 from 30th January?

(14 Jan 2022, 11:45 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote The hourly 684 is going to be a bit of a pain to plan around. Am I right in thinking GNE tickets will be valid on the 685 from 30th January?

I don't think that's the case - the 684's just been timed to coordinate with the 685.

(14 Jan 2022, 11:19 pm)Storx wrote The 308 100% won't be though as there isn't any at Blyth, that's pretty much guaranteed to be Gemini.

Unless it's a Sunday and Jesmond allocate a StreetLite on one of the Sunday 306/308 boards which interwork.

(15 Jan 2022, 1:17 pm)peter wrote I don't think that's the case - the 684's just been timed to coordinate with the 685.

Thanks. Personally I don't see the point of coordinating the 684/685 times when tickets are not valid on both services. For the full journey an Explorer is required, for anywhere else on the route a day rover would be required. Highly doubt people will use both services. An hourly service is unfortunate.

(15 Jan 2022, 1:25 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Thanks. Personally I don't see the point of coordinating the 684/685 times when tickets are not valid on both services. For the full journey an Explorer is required, for anywhere else on the route a day rover would be required. Highly doubt people will use both services. An hourly service is unfortunate.

But surely there's less point in running the services at more or less exactly the same times as currently happens with the X84/685? Because for passengers living in the villages on the route they're essentially going from an hourly to a half hourly service. So I fail to understand why you can't see the point in that. With the BSIP and other measures in the future, changes are going to be about reducing competition and increasing provision. Not least you've got to consider that the 684 is funded for by Northumberland County Council - it's a waste of money funding a service at the exactly the same time as a commercial operation.

In fairness the hourly service is the least of the problems. The fact it takes 80 minutes end to end is the bigger problem and is slower than the train/bus at pretty much every point of the route. There's very little reason for anyone to really use it.

Corbridge -> 685
Hexham -> Train/685
Ovingham -> Train
Wylam -> Train
Heddon -> 685
Throckley -> X82

Time it at the same time as the 685 you've made people's choice nice and easy, as much as it's for passenger choice it's also for their own sake.

(15 Jan 2022, 1:42 pm)peter wrote But surely there's less point in running the services at more or less exactly the same times as currently happens with the X84/685? Because for passengers living in the villages on the route they're essentially going from an hourly to a half hourly service. So I fail to understand why you can't see the point in that. With the BSIP and other measures in the future, changes are going to be about reducing competition and increasing provision. Not least you've got to consider that the 684 is funded for by Northumberland County Council - it's a waste of money funding a service at the exactly the same time as a commercial operation.

Of course there is no sense in running the services at more or less the same times. Yes, passengers in some areas will go from an hourly to half-hourly service if they have a ticket valid for travel on both operators. My point was exactly that BSIP is happening in the future and then at that point it will make sense as everything will be integrated with reduced competition so I guess tickets will be common between services by different operators. Completely understand the 684 is funded, but in the short term, or for those who prefer GNE vehicles/drivers/reliability and punctuality its gone from every half hour to every hour and it feels like those customers are forgotten about. For me it's just £4 on GNE or at most £6/£7 for All Zones, whereas it would be £7.80 to open up the 685 as the back-up option if missing the 684. Unfortunately I'd personally rather save the money and stick with the hourly 684. Winners and losers whatever you do, but I think integrating fares and timetables at the same time is sensible. Definitely be good to see the Coast Road services integrated.

There's nothing stopping GNE and Arriva/Stagecoach having mutual ticket acceptance on the 684 and 685, it's just a case of them thinking that a timetable change is "joined up thinking" and leaving it at that, in reality it'll only benefit ENCTS holders and those happy to pay for single tickets on a round trip.

For those who hold a single operator's day or period ticket, a half hourly combined service is pointless.

(15 Jan 2022, 2:27 pm)omnicity4659 wrote There's nothing stopping GNE and Arriva/Stagecoach having mutual ticket acceptance on the 684 and 685, it's just a case of them thinking that a timetable change is "joined up thinking" and leaving it at that, in reality it'll only benefit ENCTS holders and those happy to pay for single tickets on a round trip.

For those who hold a single operator's day or period ticket, a half hourly combined service is pointless.

Exactly, that's all I was saying. Integrated tickets for an integrated timetable is just obvious. An hourly service is difficult to work around.

If Arriva's new "electric / minibus hub" becomes a reality, could GNE not do a deal with Arriva by giving the North Tyneside minibus network to Arriva (bar the 19) in return for getting joint operation of the 685?

Would kill two birds with a stone as the local minibus services would better fill Arriva's strategy whereas they'd offload the 685 and allow GNE to jointly run it from Hexham depot.

(15 Jan 2022, 2:36 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Exactly, that's all I was saying. Integrated tickets for an integrated timetable is just obvious. An hourly service is difficult to work around.

I don't disagree that integrated tickets would be the best option, just in your original post you said you 'couldn't see the point' in coordinating them. It's a step in the right direction at least, albeit certainly not as far as they could go with it. 

(15 Jan 2022, 3:30 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Arriva's new "electric / minibus hub" becomes a reality, could GNE not do a deal with Arriva by giving the North Tyneside minibus network to Arriva (bar the 19) in return for getting joint operation of the 685?

Would kill two birds with a stone as the local minibus services would better fill Arriva's strategy whereas they'd offload the 685 and allow GNE to jointly run it from Hexham depot.

You would hope that the bus service improvement plan might look at shimmying round a few services between operators. Personally though, I think it would make more sense for Stagecoach to operate the 685 in full rather than it being a joint operation.

(15 Jan 2022, 3:30 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Arriva's new "electric / minibus hub" becomes a reality, could GNE not do a deal with Arriva by giving the North Tyneside minibus network to Arriva (bar the 19) in return for getting joint operation of the 685?

Would kill two birds with a stone as the local minibus services would better fill Arriva's strategy whereas they'd offload the 685 and allow GNE to jointly run it from Hexham depot.

Why would Arriva want the minibus network in North Tyneside they're unprofitable routes centred around Wallsend which they don't even serve. 

 Arriva wouldn't want them for free nevermind giving a route up for them.

(15 Jan 2022, 5:00 pm)Storx wrote Why would Arriva want the minibus network in North Tyneside they're unprofitable routes centred around Wallsend which they don't even serve. 

 Arriva wouldn't want them for free nevermind giving a route up for them.

People really need to forget the North Tyneside mini bus network. It's dead. Nobody cares about it anymore. Nexus won't touch it. Gne won't touch it. Gct will but don't understand why

(15 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Train8261 wrote People really need to forget the North Tyneside mini bus network. It's dead. Nobody cares about it anymore. Nexus won't touch it. Gne won't touch it. Gct will but don't understand why

People still need a bus service to the car dealerships at the Silverlink though. 

(15 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Train8261 wrote People really need to forget the North Tyneside mini bus network. It's dead. Nobody cares about it anymore. Nexus won't touch it. Gne won't touch it. Gct will but don't understand why

GCT don't operate those services in North Tyneside commercially, they're all funded by Nexus. Nexus clearly care cause they just did a consultation on merging the 333 and 335, and re-routing the 359

(15 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)omnicity4659 wrote People still need a bus service to the car dealerships at the Silverlink though. 

Only when you're 17 (or at whatever age you manage to pass your test) and looking to get your first car.

After then, you just rock up in your old banger and hope for the best.

(15 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)peter wrote GCT don't operate those services in North Tyneside commercially, they're all funded by Nexus. Nexus clearly care cause they just did a consultation on merging the 333 and 335, and re-routing the 359

If nexus actually cared they would have sorted something out with the entire network with gne and gct but won't

(15 Jan 2022, 1:42 pm)peter wrote But surely there's less point in running the services at more or less exactly the same times as currently happens with the X84/685? Because for passengers living in the villages on the route they're essentially going from an hourly to a half hourly service. So I fail to understand why you can't see the point in that. With the BSIP and other measures in the future, changes are going to be about reducing competition and increasing provision. Not least you've got to consider that the 684 is funded for by Northumberland County Council - it's a waste of money funding a service at the exactly the same time as a commercial operation.

Between Heddon and Newcastle the 684 & 685 will run roughly 30 minutes apart in both directions which will certainly benefit the passengers on this end of the route at least (currently X84 departs Newcastle 15 minutes before the 685 and runs roughly 15 minutes behind the 685 heading into Newcastle, on top of leaving Hexham at roughly the same time as the 685 whereas when the changes happen the 684 will leave Hexham around 15 minutes after the 685). Whilst the fare thing still restricts the journeys fare paying passengers to one bus, it does at least work for the OAPs using the route (hopefully BSIP fixes that issue in future).

684 is more for those living along the route rather than direct Hexham to Newcastle passengers.

(15 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)omnicity4659 wrote People still need a bus service to the car dealerships at the Silverlink though. 

I'm sure Gne can reroute there Cobalt & Coast services. Seems to happen a lot recently

(15 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Train8261 wrote People really need to forget the North Tyneside mini bus network. It's dead. Nobody cares about it anymore. Nexus won't touch it. Gne won't touch it. Gct will but don't understand why

They're all subsidised the local services in North Tyneside mostly.

Imo Nexus and local bus companies really need to sit down and plan something with them long term even franchising the lot on a longer basis and try and create some form of low budget network.

The 11, 11 (SNE), 12, 18, 19, 32/32A, 33, 41, 42/42A, 51/51A, 333, 335, 59, W1, W3 and the rest I've no doubt missed all should be part of it as they're not working currently and the yearly contracts going to whoever bids lowest doesn't help them neither. 

They'll never be profitable by any means but they could at least be useful and actually exist in the real world as half of them are impossible to find timetables online pretty much or have multiple operators with different ticket rules etc.

(15 Jan 2022, 7:11 pm)Train8261 wrote If nexus actually cared they would have sorted something out with the entire network with gne and gct but won't

(15 Jan 2022, 7:45 pm)Storx wrote They're all subsidised the local services in North Tyneside mostly.

Imo Nexus and local bus companies really need to sit down and plan something with them long term even franchising the lot on a longer basis and try and create some form of low budget network.

The 11, 11 (SNE), 12, 18, 19, 32/32A, 33, 41, 42/42A, 51/51A, 333, 335, 59, W1, W3 and the rest I've no doubt missed all should be part of it as they're not working currently and the yearly contracts going to whoever bids lowest doesn't help them neither. 

They'll never be profitable by any means but they could at least be useful and actually exist in the real world as half of them are impossible to find timetables online pretty much or have multiple operators with different ticket rules etc.

Completely agree that the network needs sorting out, will give Nexus some credit for not giving up completely and still put a lot of funding into services in the area. You would hope that with the network review happening later this year similar to the one down in Oxford that it will provide an opportunity to clean up services in the area. I agree some longer term contracts and awarding them on a basis other than lowest bidder would be preferable. Interestingly some of those nexus contracts were due to be re-awarded but this has been cancelled...hopefully a sign of some change to come.

(15 Jan 2022, 7:11 pm)Jimmi wrote Between Heddon and Newcastle the 684 & 685 will run roughly 30 minutes apart in both directions which will certainly benefit the passengers on this end of the route at least (currently X84 departs Newcastle 15 minutes before the 685 and runs roughly 15 minutes behind the 685 heading into Newcastle, on top of leaving Hexham at roughly the same time as the 685 whereas when the changes happen the 684 will leave Hexham around 15 minutes after the 685). Whilst the fare thing still restricts the journeys fare paying passengers to one bus, it does at least work for the OAPs using the route (hopefully BSIP fixes that issue in future).

684 is more for those living along the route rather than direct Hexham to Newcastle passengers.

Yes, at least Hexham to Newcastle also has the 10, and in theory passengers might get a multi operator ticket. As someone who lives along the route its disappointing to be restricted by tickets/fares to an hourly and day time only service which has also been downgraded from X-lines. Definitely mutual ticket acceptance or cheaper single fares should have been put in place first. I'll now probably end up wasting time in town on some occasions waiting for the 684. Currently I'm unlikely to be doing any voluntary or paid work due to Covid.

(15 Jan 2022, 4:50 pm)peter wrote I don't disagree that integrated tickets would be the best option, just in your original post you said you 'couldn't see the point' in coordinating them. It's a step in the right direction at least, albeit certainly not as far as they could go with it. 


You would hope that the bus service improvement plan might look at shimmying round a few services between operators. Personally though, I think it would make more sense for Stagecoach to operate the 685 in full rather than it being a joint operation.

I don't see much point in coordinating the 684/685 times and not the required tickets for travel on them (I now say much point, as of course it benefits passengers who are not restricted by tickets/passes). Just saying I would have combined the services fully, times and tickets, as likewise with the 306/308/309/310/311 and 42/42A/52/53/54/62/63/X63 on common sections, maybe also 1/22. Not sure how tickets could work exactly for all customers though (for example a ticket for all Killingworth services, to get any bus locally, but then you've got Cramlington/Kingston Park/Whitley Bay and Newcastle East/Centre/West in one direction, Wallsend and North Shields in the other).

(15 Jan 2022, 7:45 pm)Storx wrote They're all subsidised the local services in North Tyneside mostly.

Imo Nexus and local bus companies really need to sit down and plan something with them long term even franchising the lot on a longer basis and try and create some form of low budget network.

The 11, 11 (SNE), 12, 18, 19, 32/32A, 33, 41, 42/42A, 51/51A, 333, 335, 59, W1, W3 and the rest I've no doubt missed all should be part of it as they're not working currently and the yearly contracts going to whoever bids lowest doesn't help them neither. 

They'll never be profitable by any means but they could at least be useful and actually exist in the real world as half of them are impossible to find timetables online pretty much or have multiple operators with different ticket rules etc.

Are the Little Coasters subsidised during the day? The 51/51A isn’t subsidised all day either although I believe there was money put into the 51A from the builders of the new estates in East Benton or Holystone.

All this talk of mutual ticket acceptance in specific areas  is getting confusing. If it is to happen it needs to be region wide, and there needs to be a simplification of the ticketing offering.

In other words the Explorer ticket needs more options than just a region wide day ticket and the pricing needs reviewing.