(22 May 2022, 4:43 pm)cbma06 wrote Faster doesn’t mean better though

X6 might be quicker  but the 62 picks up more potential passengers than the x6.

Yea because the 202 didn’t go via Easington, the 62 is just an replacement  of the 208 between Easington and Peterlee , serving more areas is better than not picking any passengers up

62 serves areas and keeping estates connected


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Serving more areas is better, so why was the 202 withdrawn from Westlea and Northlea in 2013, with those areas passing to the 265, which lost those areas after a whole 10 months? Westlea was left with a council bus that ran 4 or 5 times a day and has been suspended since the first lockdown, and Northlea got the 238 (now 71)

Also, the 62A is what serves all the estates, the 62 just passes through. It's probably just to keep a 30-min frequency in that area, otherwise the diversion is pretty pointless, meanwhile if I was still at college, I'd be facing an extra 20 minutes on my journey (10 min extra on the bus, 10 min walking because it no longer stops outside the college), or having to either buy a day ticket, or try to use Arriva.

(22 May 2022, 6:35 pm)F114TML wrote Serving more areas is better, so why was the 202 withdrawn from Westlea and Northlea in 2013, with those areas passing to the 265, which lost those areas after a whole 10 months? Westlea was left with a council bus that ran 4 or 5 times a day and has been suspended since the first lockdown, and Northlea got the 238 (now 71)

Also, the 62A is what serves all the estates, the 62 just passes through. It's probably just to keep a 30-min frequency in that area, otherwise the diversion is pretty pointless, meanwhile if I was still at college, I'd be facing an extra 20 minutes on my journey (10 min extra on the bus, 10 min walking because it no longer stops outside the college), or having to either buy a day ticket, or try to use Arriva.

About the 202 , you better asking DCC or GNE, I think it was when GNE took them on commercially , probably at least there was still a service going through westlea and northlea , if you were on about east Durham college , its practically walking distance from the bus station, you can’t have it both ways as bus services are run by profit and not passenger needs to be closer to there destination, just hope DCC secure the services again and Arriva gets the locals as what was intended to happen until GNE was going to lose the contracts to Arriva


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As noted in a post regarding the new poppy bus as stated I quite like the look incorporating both the poppy and corporate livery so I wondered what a branded bus would look like using the same ethos rather than just the roadway with differentiating shades of the same/similar colours but instead using the current corporate livery with a red strip before the branded colour base, below is a mock up of how the CityRider 56 would look. 

(27 May 2022, 9:09 pm)Malarkey wrote As noted in a post regarding the new poppy bus as stated I quite like the look incorporating both the poppy and corporate livery so I wondered what a branded bus would look like using the same ethos rather than just the roadway with differentiating shades of the same/similar colours but instead using the current corporate livery with a red strip before the branded colour base, below is a mock up of how the CityRider 56 would look. 

Hideous

Wrong shade of blue (looks like the old pre 2006 corporate livery blue) makes it look worse than it might with the darker blue.

(27 May 2022, 9:09 pm)Malarkey wrote As noted in a post regarding the new poppy bus as stated I quite like the look incorporating both the poppy and corporate livery so I wondered what a branded bus would look like using the same ethos rather than just the roadway with differentiating shades of the same/similar colours but instead using the current corporate livery with a red strip before the branded colour base, below is a mock up of how the CityRider 56 would look. 

God no that’s even busier than they currently are. It’s a no from me.

With these changes I feel like there will be a lot wasted on repaints, so for branding I think every service should get it, however the service needs to be proven to be making money and that it won't change.

I personally think the 50 is popular enough to be branded service just not sure what you would brand it

(24 Jul 2022, 10:09 pm)Ds1197 wrote I personally think the 50 is popular enough to be branded service just not sure what you would brand it

I agree - 24/9/5A/26 - Tyneside Rider / Sheilds Surfer. 

50 could be Coast & Country in a really nice livery similar to the older 1 or 60.

Get rid of the lot, whack it in a standard operating livery

Spend the money saved on recruiting drivers, improving ticketing and fares, the app and the onboard experience.

The Angel, the Sunderland Pineapple, the Washington Little Avocados or the X Lines makes no arse end of difference to the market. People use it because they either have to or don’t want to pay for a taxi. Make it better

You say that, but it clearly has some form of impact - I remember my mam a few years ago ask if the 56 is "the orange one with the flowers", and she doesn't know the first thing about buses other than how to get on. In fact, I was very surprised she even knew the 56 exists, let alone the buses used on it, considering it doesn't go near us. Dad's rather the same - every time he needs to use the bus, he asks if it' the 152 on the hour and half-past the hour (although I think it's at this point where he's just joking).

This may sound werid, but I think branding gives routes life, an easy way to identify them an easy way to see where they are going (when they are allocated to the correct route)

(24 Jul 2022, 10:33 pm)F114TML wrote You say that, but it clearly has some form of impact - I remember my mam a few years ago ask if the 56 is "the orange one with the flowers", and she doesn't know the first thing about buses other than how to get on. In fact, I was very surprised she even knew the 56 exists, let alone the buses used on it, considering it doesn't go near us. Dad's rather the same - every time he needs to use the bus, he asks if it' the 152 on the hour and half-past the hour (although I think it's at this point where he's just joking).

But she’s using that bus regardless…she’s differentiating a product, it doesn’t make it any easier. She’d just say ok, 56, from Springwell Club? Has Newcastle on the front? Great. Did the 28 see an explosion of passengers when it became Waggonway? Was the historically busy 723, 724, 221 and 735 suddenly overwhelmed when it become the 21 24/7 or the Angel? Nope. It’s the 21 to the vast majority of folks and it gets you from the cannon to town

These routes existed way before branding was born and will go on beyond it. Investment in lower fares, simplified timetables, easy ticketing (Jesus Christ the speed of gne contactless ) is what’s needed. Not paint

(24 Jul 2022, 10:47 pm)Ambassador wrote But she’s using that bus regardless…she’s differentiating a product, it doesn’t make it any easier. She’d just say ok, 56, from Springwell Club? Has Newcastle on the front? Great. Did the 28 see an explosion of passengers when it became Waggonway? Was the historically busy 723, 724, 221 and 735 suddenly overwhelmed when it become the 21 24/7 or the Angel? Nope. It’s the 21 to the vast majority of folks and it gets you from the cannon to town

These routes existed way before branding was born and will go on beyond it. Investment in lower fares, simplified timetables, easy ticketing (Jesus Christ the speed of gne contactless ) is what’s needed. Not paint

What I'm saying is, if the 56 didn't have a strong and constant brand (orange with flowers), would she even know the 56 exists? Probably not, especially given the fact it doesn't go anywhere near to where we live.

What's most likely happened is she's seen one of the branded B9s on it a few times while out in either Newcastle or Sunderland or both, and made a connection ("big orange bus with flowers = 56"). Would she have made that connection if the 56 wasn't branded? I doubt it.

(24 Jul 2022, 10:55 pm)F114TML wrote What I'm saying is, if the 56 didn't have a strong and constant brand (orange with flowers), would she even know the 56 exists? Probably not, especially given the fact it doesn't go anywhere near to where we live.

What's most likely happened is she's seen one of the branded B9s on it a few times while out in either Newcastle or Sunderland or both, and made a connection ("big orange bus with flowers = 56"). Would she have made that connection if the 56 wasn't branded? I doubt it.

The ironic thing is now sadly she'll be looking for the orange bus with the flowers on and be waiting for a very long time.

The brands are finished now imo, there was too much pointless rebranding which just defeated the point in them in the first place. You don't go into Tesco and see Kelloggs rebrand their name every 2 weeks.

X Lines was a mistake imo as routes like Red Kite, Red Arrow, Tyne Tees Express and Castles Express had a strong identity. Similar to Citylink, Fab 56, Cobalt Clipper, Ten (Silver) etc which had a strong identity. Now you go to Consett and it's either the Venture, X Lines, X Lines, X Lines, Venture or Venture or Red Kite Ranger ironically again on the wrong route.

(24 Jul 2022, 10:55 pm)F114TML wrote What I'm saying is, if the 56 didn't have a strong and constant brand (orange with flowers), would she even know the 56 exists? Probably not, especially given the fact it doesn't go anywhere near to where we live.

What's most likely happened is she's seen one of the branded B9s on it a few times while out in either Newcastle or Sunderland or both, and made a connection ("big orange bus with flowers = 56"). Would she have made that connection if the 56 wasn't branded? I doubt it.

But does it make her use, or want to use the service? I live in GNE land. I’ve never been on the SCNE 39 or 40 for example; but I know it’ll get me along the west road should I need to.

(24 Jul 2022, 11:24 pm)Chris 1 wrote But does it make her use, or want to use the service? I live in GNE land. I’ve never been on the SCNE 39 or 40 for example; but I know it’ll get me along the west road should I need to.

Probably not, because she's probably never needed to.

(24 Jul 2022, 11:41 pm)F114TML wrote Probably not, because she's probably never needed to.

Exactly. So for all the shiny paintwork and bells and whistles, she isn’t going to use it. So what’s the point in it all? Branding ensures that passengers know which service they’ve used, or need, but despite what the likes of Stenning would have us believe the bus is the choice of last resort. If passengers have a viable alternative, they aint gonna use the 56 just because it’s got glowers on the side and sockets that may or may not work.

(24 Jul 2022, 10:47 pm)Ambassador wrote But she’s using that bus regardless…she’s differentiating a product, it doesn’t make it any easier. She’d just say ok, 56, from Springwell Club? Has Newcastle on the front? Great. Did the 28 see an explosion of passengers when it became Waggonway? Was the historically busy 723, 724, 221 and 735 suddenly overwhelmed when it become the 21 24/7 or the Angel? Nope. It’s the 21 to the vast majority of folks and it gets you from the cannon to town

These routes existed way before branding was born and will go on beyond it. Investment in lower fares, simplified timetables, easy ticketing (Jesus Christ the speed of gne contactless ) is what’s needed. Not paint

Could not agree more with this.

Went out for a couple of pints on Friday in Town. Was genuinely taken aback at how poor the bus offering was.

Tried to get from Winlaton into Town. 12a was a victim of service cancellations, and I just turned up on spec and missed a 12. My fault, I appreciate. A good 30 mins at least before a 49a pulls up, and I take my chances on that with the view to change at the MetroCentre. Full marks to the driver for selling me an evening ticket instead of the day ticked I’d asked for, saved me a couple of quid.

Whilst waiting, one pair of passengers gave up and rang one of their mams for a lift. Another pair rang for a taxi. Both to the MetroCentre, not that I was wagging my lugs.

In the midst of all of this, a 49 had pulled in and disappeared out of service . Given the time, presumably he’d finished and was heading to Riverside.  If so, why not run non stop via MetroCentre? The time penalty would be minimal but at least gives passengers the the chance to connect with something.

Despite being a proud Winlatoner, even I have to admit winlaton bus station is a shit hole Some of the other passengers weren’t overly enamoured with an extended wait there. If Winlaton’s finest we’re out, they’d be long gone!

(24 Jul 2022, 11:56 pm)Chris 1 wrote Exactly. So for all the shiny paintwork and bells and whistles, she isn’t going to use it. So what’s the point in it all? Branding ensures that passengers know which service they’ve used, or need, but despite what the likes of Stenning would have us believe the bus is the choice of last resort. If passengers have a viable alternative, they aint gonna use the 56 just because it’s got glowers on the side and sockets that may or may not work.

Exactly this.  As an enthusiast branding is a nice to have (well, some of them - some are dross).  Beyond that, it is completely pointless.  If branding was in the slightest bit effective, we wouldn't see continual decline across the network.  Yes Covid is a convenient excuse but branded and corporate services alike have been getting slashed for years prior to covid, across many operators - those who use branding and those who don't.  How many services have been branded then put back to corporate, or withdrawn fully...I can't even begin to guess but certainly X2, 5, 6, X6, X7, X8, 9, 11.....X84, X85.... to name probably less than 10% of failed brands/routes. Sure there will be some drivel that it increases ridership but the stats are confidential, and meanwhile services get cut due to low usage.  Branding obviously isn't the cause of the decline but completely agree and the evidence bears out that the bus is the option of last resort for most, whether red, blue, pink, orange or the whole rainbow.

(24 Jul 2022, 11:56 pm)Chris 1 wrote Exactly. So for all the shiny paintwork and bells and whistles, she isn’t going to use it. So what’s the point in it all? Branding ensures that passengers know which service they’ve used, or need, but despite what the likes of Stenning would have us believe the bus is the choice of last resort. If passengers have a viable alternative, they aint gonna use the 56 just because it’s got glowers on the side and sockets that may or may not work.

Well she's never going to use it because she's never going to go to Springwell or Concord, is she?

(25 Jul 2022, 10:13 am)F114TML wrote Well she's never going to use it because she's never going to go to Springwell or Concord, is she?

In which case they've marketed the product and potentially raised awareness.
But they're not selling anything to her.

There's no particular ROI in that case.

(25 Jul 2022, 10:23 am)Andreos1 wrote In which case they've marketed the product and potentially raised awareness.
But they're not selling anything to her.

There's no particular ROI in that case.

Which is what I thought the point of route branding was.

(25 Jul 2022, 10:26 am)F114TML wrote Which is what I thought the point of route branding was.

As well as increasing bums on seats, loyalty, revenue/profit growth etc.
If it doesn't, then it's a pretty pointless exercise.

I was delivering a workshop the other day regarding Marketing & Sales and referred to the differences between on street advertising to raise awareness (or marketing something) of a product vs selling a specific product, that meets the customers needs.
McDonald's raise that awareness via the marketing and then meet the customers needs, by selling something that is specific to the customers needs. 

They get that marketing ROI back tenfold. Probably more.

Does a bus operator?
That orange bus raised awareness of its existence with your family member, but certainly hasn't sold them anything to do with that product as a result.
You said yourself it doesn't meet her needs and to be honest, it will only meet the needs of a certain number of people by virtue of the route it takes.

On a personal level, I've got a little side thing going on (no, not that sort of side thing. Me and Mrs C are fine). I've raised awareness, I've let people know it's happening and they know it is going on.
I need to now sell that side thing on a personal level and ensure it's tailored to their needs.
It won't work otherwise.

Is the 50 getting branded? Only 6301/02/07 tracking on the GNE app with 6146, 6163 & 6164 covering. It would explain they the x15 interior branding was left for so long.

Is the blonde branding getting binned?, so now the 38 is ran by the Peterlee purple brand from doing the X6 either side of the 38, plus the x6 doing Peterlee locals


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I'm on holiday in the lakes right now. Have to say, I'm quite impressed by Stagecoach's Lakes Connection branding - because they're actually putting a bit of effort into it.

Been to Bowness and saw this (sold already)

and in one of the shops, they had a stack of timetables (and when I say a stack, I mean a big crate about 4 feet high). The buses have a nice livery (and it is actually a livery, not just beachball but in a different colour, even though it is based on beachball. I notice they've updated the logo on it so i assume they're continuing with it - at least for now). Also, looked through the timetable leaflet I picked up - don't see any cheesy slogans (although it lists tickets, but directs you to a QR code for the prices - hmm), and the "Lakes Connection" name makes sense.

They say first impressions count - the bus service through the village I was expecting to be a Solo; cue me quite surprised when a branded E400 came through, making me look the route up myself. Want to do it myself (if I get the chance to is another question). I've not had that feeling from GNE (although is that because I'm from the area and know the network anyway?).

Best branding I have seen has always been by Stagecoach. When Hartlepool depot got low floor buses for the first time in 1999 they put them on what is the cross town service 6. So they give it the brand name of super 6. The normal livery of the Stagecoach stripes but with a blue Swirly 6 with super and six on either side of it. No fancy taglines just the main route of Hart Station Town Centre Fens Estate on side and every 15 minutes Hart Station Town Centre Fens Estate on the back window. That’s all that was needed. So yeah due to a spare one often ended up doing other routes but it was promoting the 6 and that it was now low floor so anyone could travel on it.

They did the same thing with service 1 about 5 year later in 2004 the normal livery but with 1 branding and the main places it served in Hartlepool, Middlesbrough James Cook hospital on the side on the tagline Shopping, Commuting, Days out, Hospital visits on the back that’s all that was needed.

The problem Go north east have done they gone to over the top. East Durham worked and it was more than a brand it was like a little company of its own within Go North East it was the local bus service for east Durham. I am baffled why they then thought changing it to indigo which made no sense was a good idea it had no connection to the area. Same with Tyne Tees Express it was a very simple brand which pointed out it’s the express service between Middlesbrough and Newcastle. Changing it to just X9 10 then Xlines made no absolutely no sense it says nothing about the service. That’s just two examples. Fab 56 as pointed out well it’s the 56. City rider has no meaning to it I immediately think it’s a cross city service from one part of a city to another not a service between Sunderland and Newcastle.
They need to ditch the branding altogether really now very little of them make no sense anymore and they have got desperate for them.

(02 Aug 2022, 12:39 am)col87 wrote The problem Go north east have done they gone to over the top. East Durham worked and it was more than a brand it was like a little company of its own within Go North East it was the local bus service for east Durham. I am baffled why they then thought changing it to indigo which made no sense was a good idea it had no connection to the area.  Same with Tyne Tees Express it was a very simple brand which pointed out it’s the express service between Middlesbrough and Newcastle.  Changing it to just X9 10 then Xlines made no absolutely no sense it says nothing about the service.

The thing is, they got new buses when the brand changed, so they probably thought it necessary to change the livery to promote the fact there's new buses. The change of the X9/X10 to Xlines was inevitable, and they coincided it with the launch of the coaches (side note: think I've already asked this, but how did they handle wheelchairs when it was Caetanos on the X10?). I do like East Durham (although probably just from a nostalgia perspective) - the livery was a bit crap; one of those where it's just a base colour with a logo and tagline slapped on. I guess one of the best things about East Durham is every route operated from Peterlee was East Durham branded, until the X7 came along, so buses were always allocated to ED routes; you very rarely got something not East Durham branded (and similarly you very rarely had an ED bus on something else), except when the X7 was Renowns. As I remember, Drifter allocations were very good in that regard until very recently (perhaps because they're an older spec?).

My mother was following one of the Charcoal Xlines B5s this morning, and she commented on how posh it looked in comparison to the blue B5s. And I certainly agree.

If they just binned off the route colours and had them all the generic charcoal livery I certainly wouldn't be disappointed!

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I'm personally not a big fan of the charcoal livery. It doesn't really compliment the gold.