The Hexham X84/X85 has to be up there with one of the biggest u-turns from brand new luxury ‘xlines’ E400 deckers, 2 buses an hour etc. to then replaced with a longer journey time, an hourly service with reduced timetable in the evenings and a complete downgrade in terms of buses used. And that was what, within a year?

I know GNE and others will blame the pandemic and such, but I think somethings gone wrong somewhere if you need to make such drastic changes. I’ve said before about all the routes that are still ‘temporarily’ reduced and have been for nearly 12 months now, when does temporary become permanent?

(20 Jun 2023, 8:46 pm)busmanT wrote I don't recall GNE having "just Binned" the 52/53/54/55.

I never mentioned those routes? They however did bin off the 11, 19 and 42 off though which run very similar corridors or their other 10 variants.

(20 Jun 2023, 10:13 pm)Drifter60 wrote The Hexham X84/X85 has to be up there with one of the biggest u-turns from brand new luxury ‘xlines’ E400 deckers, half hourly service etc. to then replaced with a longer journey time, an hourly service with reduced timetable in the evenings and a complete downgrade in terms of buses used. And that was what, within a year?

I know GNE and others will blame the pandemic and such, but I think somethings gone wrong somewhere if you need to make such drastic changes. I’ve said before about all the routes that are still ‘temporarily’ reduced and have been for nearly 12 months now, when does temporary become permanent?

X84/X85/685 had them leaving Hexham within 20 mins, leaving no bus for 40 mins

(20 Jun 2023, 10:45 pm)Unber43 wrote X84/X85/685 had them leaving Hexham within 20 mins, leaving no bus for 40 mins

Yeah amended - I knew they didn’t have equal headway as the X84 served more locations. But the X85 really was completely axed, my point being how can you go from new double decker ‘state of the art’ buses to cancelled in a year!

(20 Jun 2023, 11:04 pm)Drifter60 wrote Yeah amended - I knew they didn’t have equal headway as the X84 served more locations. But the X85 really was completely axed, my point being how can you go from new double decker ‘state of the art’ buses to cancelled in a year!

I believe they were already meant to get double deckers for the X84/X85 its just after the pandemic there wasn't there passenegers there anymore

(20 Jun 2023, 11:04 pm)Drifter60 wrote Yeah amended - I knew they didn’t have equal headway as the X84 served more locations. But the X85 really was completely axed, my point being how can you go from new double decker ‘state of the art’ buses to cancelled in a year!

The trains got increased to 3 trains per hour at the same time. There's just no demand for 3 buses and 3 trains doing the same journey. 

I know some will say they wouldn't walk to the train station but anyone with that mindset would use the 685 as it stops closer to people's doors. The bus station is in the middle of nowhere aswell.

Trains increased by 30k people at Hexham in 2019/20. The new buses were very much a fightback against them but failed miserable as anyone with sense wouldn't choose a bus that takes twice as long, not to mention on the trains you get an added bonus with the Metro Centre aswell.

Also the Pacers got withdrawn so all those 'benefits' of using the bus ie tables etc were gone as Class 156 and Class 158's both have them aswell with much more space.

(20 Jun 2023, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote The trains got increased to 3 trains per hour at the same time. There's just no demand for 3 buses and 3 trains doing the same journey. 

I know some will say they wouldn't walk to the train station but anyone with that mindset would use the 685 as it stops closer to people's doors. The bus station is in the middle of nowhere aswell.

Trains increased by 30k people at Hexham in 2019/20. The new buses were very much a fightback against them but failed miserable as anyone with sense wouldn't choose a bus that takes twice as long, not to mention on the trains you get an added bonus with the Metro Centre aswell.

If I was going to Tesco or Homebase, I'd happily take the train.
If I was going into Hexham proper, I'd take the bus purely so I don't have to walk up the bank.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

(20 Jun 2023, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote The trains got increased to 3 trains per hour at the same time. There's just no demand for 3 buses and 3 trains doing the same journey. 

I know some will say they wouldn't walk to the train station but anyone with that mindset would use the 685 as it stops closer to people's doors. The bus station is in the middle of nowhere aswell.

Trains increased by 30k people at Hexham in 2019/20. The new buses were very much a fightback against them but failed miserable as anyone with sense wouldn't choose a bus that takes twice as long, not to mention on the trains you get an added bonus with the Metro Centre aswell.

Also the Pacers got withdrawn so all those 'benefits' of using the bus ie tables etc were gone as Class 156 and Class 158's both have them aswell with much more space.

Whilst at the same time, the X85 was removed from Heddon-on-the-Wall to speed up the journey and save a bus from the PVR but the numbers wanting to go direct between the two places just didn't materialise for them to keep the X85 going (with X84 revised slightly to revert back to the 684).

May be wrong but I think the E400MMCs may not have been intended for the X84/X85 originally, think they were ordered for other routes but changes and cuts during COVID left them free to be deployed elsewhere, so think they made the best of a bad situation with them at the time by upgrading the X84/X85 and bringing it into the Xlines brand in the process.

(21 Jun 2023, 3:06 am)Jimmi wrote Whilst at the same time, the X85 was removed from Heddon-on-the-Wall to speed up the journey and save a bus from the PVR but the numbers wanting to go direct between the two places just didn't materialise for them to keep the X85 going (with X84 revised slightly to revert back to the 684).

May be wrong but I think the E400MMCs may not have been intended for the X84/X85 originally, think they were ordered for other routes but changes and cuts during COVID left them free to be deployed elsewhere, so think they made the best of a bad situation with them at the time by upgrading the X84/X85 and bringing it into the Xlines brand in the process.

Weren't they for the X1, but with the Streetdecks being taken by Oxford things had to get shifted around.

I think the rumours at the time might have been the X9/X10 B5s were intended to go into the X84/X85?

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(20 Jun 2023, 11:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote If I was going to Tesco or Homebase, I'd happily take the train.
If I was going into Hexham proper, I'd take the bus purely so I don't have to walk up the bank.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

Who wants to go there though :p there's nowt there, that place is competing with Bishop Auckland lately.

(21 Jun 2023, 3:06 am)Jimmi wrote Whilst at the same time, the X85 was removed from Heddon-on-the-Wall to speed up the journey and save a bus from the PVR but the numbers wanting to go direct between the two places just didn't materialise for them to keep the X85 going (with X84 revised slightly to revert back to the 684).

May be wrong but I think the E400MMCs may not have been intended for the X84/X85 originally, think they were ordered for other routes but changes and cuts during COVID left them free to be deployed elsewhere, so think they made the best of a bad situation with them at the time by upgrading the X84/X85 and bringing it into the Xlines brand in the process.

Aye I think your right, I know the X21 was meant to get an upgrade aswell at the time but they got the B5's. Where they were meant to go is anyone's guess.

(21 Jun 2023, 7:05 am)Storx wrote Who wants to go there though :p there's nowt there, that place is competing with Bishop Auckland lately.


Aye I think your right, I know the X21 was meant to get an upgrade aswell at the time but they got the B5's. Where they were meant to go is anyone's guess.

Bishop has a lot more than Hexham! 

The X21 was supposed to get some of the new Streetdecks to compliment the original 16 plates and 67 plates stolen from the Angel.
I must admit though, putting the B5s on seems to have been the better play in hindsight, especially now the roads down this way have been resurfaced. The 'new' Streetdecks are definitely more comfortable, but the B5s are better on the higher speed parts of the route.

(21 Jun 2023, 4:46 am)streetdeckfan wrote Weren't they for the X1, but with the Streetdecks being taken by Oxford things had to get shifted around.

I think the rumours at the time might have been the X9/X10 B5s were intended to go into the X84/X85?

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

Original plan pre-covid was

2018/19 financial year:
- 13x StreetDeck - X31/X45/X46
- 9x StreetDeck - X47/X70/X71
- 4x StreetDeck - X5/X15
- 4x StreetDeck - extras for X21 or sparws
- 1x OM936 StreetDeck

2019/20 financial year:
- 14x E400MMC - X1
- 1x E400MMC - X30 (extra for Consett extension

Future potential order:
- 7x Scania N250UD E400MMC or OM936 StreetDeck for X9/X10
- 5x Volvo B5TL cascaded to X84/X85

(21 Jun 2023, 7:27 am)streetdeckfan wrote Bishop has a lot more than Hexham! 

The X21 was supposed to get some of the new Streetdecks to compliment the original 16 plates and 67 plates stolen from the Angel.
I must admit though, putting the B5s on seems to have been the better play in hindsight, especially now the roads down this way have been resurfaced. The 'new' Streetdecks are definitely more comfortable, but the B5s are better on the higher speed parts of the route.

Aye knew it was something like that, mind have a fleet all the same was probably better in hindsight. It's a bit of a minefield to advertise this nice new bus with red seats then next time you get an old one with blue leather. Bit of a mess. 

It's getting there Hexham mind, so many closures lately. If you took the abbey away there's nowt there. I do like the Waitrose though mind for some things.

(21 Jun 2023, 8:13 am)Storx wrote Aye knew it was something like that, mind have a fleet all the same was probably better in hindsight. It's a bit of a minefield to advertise this nice new bus with red seats then next time you get an old one with blue leather. Bit of a mess. 

It's getting there Hexham mind, so many closures lately. If you took the abbey away there's nowt there. I do like the Waitrose though mind for some things.

Id still take the leather seats over the new moquette ones. They're just not as comfy for long distances. And don't even get me started on the ADL seats, they're horrendous!

I'm more of a LIDL man myself, it's such a relief Aldi has opened back up in Bishop, at least Lidl should be quieter now.

As I’ve probably said on at least one previous occasion, at its peak the x84/x85 service could run with full solos with the exception of the twirly peaks in the morning and afternoon. Post covid a lot of the twirlys just never returned.

Particularly in the days of running scanias I could have a full standing load leaving corbridge or sometimes even Hexham on the first one of the day leaving Hexham (x85) post 9am Similarly on the 2pm and 5 pm leaving Newcastle, and on corbridge car boot sale days. Post covid, regular passengers that got on everyday from the co op in Hexham through corbridge just disappeared.

There was always an element of whether the x85 got there first or the 685, but there was some loyalty to gne, particularly when we had regular experienced drivers like myself on the peak routes.

Fast forward a little bit and a lot of staff turnover and the introduction on the citaros, neither did much for retention. Complaints about hard seats meant that some just went for the 685 instead, couple that with a lot of adblu de rates in the mercs which took eminox an age to sort out, and we lost a lot of the regulars that way too. The citaros were also a lot harder to get as smooth a journey as the mercs.

Heddon was an odd one, always used to be busy and passengers just literally disappears off the map for all routes, so it made no sense to continue serving it on the x85, could even argue the same with corbridge to a certain extent.

(21 Jun 2023, 10:21 am)xpm wrote As I’ve probably said on at least one previous occasion, at its peak the x84/x85 service could run with full solos with the exception of the twirly peaks in the morning and afternoon.  Post covid a lot of the twirlys just never returned.  

Particularly in the days of running scanias I could have a full standing load leaving corbridge or sometimes even Hexham on the first one of the day leaving Hexham (x85) post 9am  Similarly on the 2pm and 5 pm leaving Newcastle, and on corbridge car boot sale days.  Post covid, regular passengers that got on everyday from the co op in Hexham through corbridge just disappeared.

There was always an element of whether the x85 got there first or the 685, but there was some loyalty to gne, particularly when we had regular experienced drivers like myself on the peak routes.

Fast forward a little bit and a lot of staff turnover and the introduction on the citaros, neither did much for retention.  Complaints about hard seats meant that some just went for the 685 instead, couple that with a lot of adblu de rates in the mercs which took eminox an age to sort out, and we lost a lot of the regulars that way too.  The citaros were also a lot harder to get as smooth a journey as the mercs. 

Heddon was an odd one, always used to be busy and passengers just literally disappears off the map for all routes, so it made no sense to continue serving it on the x85, could even argue the same with corbridge to a certain extent.

I think they were clearly trying to grow numbers, but in those areas, any growth is going to be limited. 
It's not as if the population in any of the towns/villages are growing massively through housebuilding or new estates. 
As a result, passenger growth is going to be limited to a proportion of residents who are wanting to travel by bus and want/need to go to the places served. 
Realistically 1 or 2%. And as you say, a Solo beyond peaks would probably surfice. Even with growth. 

There's clearly a limit of what could be done on that corridor, versus say the Consett or Great Park areas, where the population is growing quickly and there's a greater opportunity to pick up a proportion of those passengers. 
Even if you're expecting 1 or 2% growth in those areas, that's a significant number more than say Heddon, Ovingham or Corbridge.

(20 Jun 2023, 10:03 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Wasn't the reason the coaches ended up on the X9/X10 because GNE got scammed by Oxford into taking some unreliable coaches in swap for some brand new Streetdecks?

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

X10/9 is a weird one, the caetanos would of been fine but depends how much capacity it needs it's a weird route to get tickets for unless you get the explorer.

(21 Jun 2023, 11:32 am)Countydurhambuses wrote X10/9 is a weird one, the caetanos would of been fine but depends how much capacity it needs it's a weird route to get tickets for unless you get the explorer.

The Elite-i coaches I was never really a fan of. It was a faff and a half getting up the stairs at the front. It's been a while but from memory it was very narrow and steep. 
The Levantes were much better in contrast, and felt a lot airier, but they weren't as accessible for wheelchairs.

(21 Jun 2023, 11:45 am)streetdeckfan wrote The Elite-i coaches I was never really a fan of. It was a faff and a half getting up the stairs at the front. It's been a while but from memory it was very narrow and steep. 
The Levantes were much better in contrast, and felt a lot airier, but they weren't as accessible for wheelchairs.

They're not popular buses, I know they had them up in Scotland on the Thurso routes and they got removed promptly as the twirlies up there were complaining. Believe the steps are steeper.

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/no...se-174077/ - Edit that's it, least no-one wet themselves down here as far as I'm aware :s

(21 Jun 2023, 12:26 pm)Storx wrote They're not popular buses, I know they had them up in Scotland on the Thurso routes and they got removed promptly as the twirlies up there were complaining. Believe the steps are steeper.

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/no...se-174077/ - Edit that's it, least no-one wet themselves down here as far as I'm aware :s

To be fair, I'm in my my 20s and I struggled with the stairs. I can only imagine how bad it must have been for someone with mobility problems!

(21 Jun 2023, 8:09 am)L469 YVK wrote Original plan pre-covid was

2018/19 financial year:
- 13x StreetDeck - X31/X45/X46
- 9x StreetDeck - X47/X70/X71
- 4x StreetDeck - X5/X15
- 4x StreetDeck - extras for X21 or sparws
- 1x OM936 StreetDeck

2019/20 financial year:
- 14x E400MMC - X1
- 1x E400MMC - X30 (extra for Consett extension

Future potential order:
- 7x Scania N250UD E400MMC or OM936 StreetDeck for X9/X10
- 5x Volvo B5TL cascaded to X84/X85

Was it the X45/46/47 back in 2018/19

(21 Jun 2023, 1:35 pm)V514DFT wrote Was it the X45/46/47 back in 2018/19

Were ordered before the July 2019 changes when the 45/46/47 became the X45/X46/X47 before covid

(19 Jun 2023, 11:03 am)Andreos1 wrote The inability of operators to future proof their work, baffles me. 
Whether it's the inability to disaster plan effectively or actually be proactive about operations and find out what passengers (current, previous or potential) need, want or expect. 

We keep seeing the finger being pointed at Covid. Whether lockdown was right or wrong is irrelevant. Whether it's a pandemic or war, there's inevitably going to be a negative impact and it's clear these multi-million pound, multi-national PLC's didn't forsee or think about how to mitigate the effect both short term or long term. 
Other than dusting off the begging bowl. 

Scary. 

Mind, I'm sure they've got a nuclear bomb proof bunker to keep that begging bowl safe. 
As soon as the dust settles following a Putin bombing mission, that bowl will be out and an Oscar winning performance of Oliver will be put on. 
Meanwhile, despite the population of the North East being displaced or indeed dead, that Durham Road, Coast Road and Great North Road corridor will be back to full operational strength before we know it.

  This made me laugh out loud. Love it! Totally agree mind! It's the same with supermarkets etc these days. They use the stories reported in the news as an excuse to hike up prices, yet they have no problem building and opening new stores all the time and expanding further.

Another thing I've thought about which I can't understand is the price of ticketing. For example, my Sister-in-Law lives in Lambton and if she wants to take my nieces to soft play in Concord it costs more to use the 50 which is a more direct route. Yet when the 83/84 went through Lambton, it cost less to go to Concord yet it went through Biddick, Brady Square, Barmston and Peel Retail Park. Interesting to note that the 50 is the only service to Concord from Lambton now! Maximising profits while incurring less costs! Like any of us if she had a car she would go the most direct route and use less fuel, and pay less money. Don't understand the logic here but no doubt there will be some "reason". No wonder the car wins every time but yet people will be blamed for the "climate crisis" as a result! I'm sure these bus companies and haulage companies get fuel cheaper as well. In 1997 I remember lorries blocking petrol stations and fuel depots out of protest. Interesting how that never happens now, despite the fuel prices reaching ridiculous levels last year! They must think people are stupid.

---

(19 Jun 2023, 5:49 pm)Ambassador wrote It’s hardly surprising though is it Andreos? Cheap internal promotions to key roles maintaining the unwanted consistency, no direct MD, endless PR faux pas, a growing reliance on PTE contracts and handouts and non existent customer service.

It’s the unloved stepchild of the Go Ahead group these days.

I completely agree with you.

---

(20 Jun 2023, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote The trains got increased to 3 trains per hour at the same time. There's just no demand for 3 buses and 3 trains doing the same journey. 

I know some will say they wouldn't walk to the train station but anyone with that mindset would use the 685 as it stops closer to people's doors. The bus station is in the middle of nowhere aswell.

Trains increased by 30k people at Hexham in 2019/20. The new buses were very much a fightback against them but failed miserable as anyone with sense wouldn't choose a bus that takes twice as long, not to mention on the trains you get an added bonus with the Metro Centre aswell.

Also the Pacers got withdrawn so all those 'benefits' of using the bus ie tables etc were gone as Class 156 and Class 158's both have them aswell with much more space.

This is an interesting point. How come the demand for the likes of the Metro and light rail network is always so high and yet the bus industry is falling further behind? The Metros in the morning are often rammed, particularly towards Newcastle. In a lot of ways I fear for the bus industry if the metro was ever to expand into the likes of Washington etc.

(21 Jun 2023, 3:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote Were ordered before the July 2019 changes when the 45/46/47 became the X45/X46/X47 before covid

Thought it may have been around about then, just wasn't 100%

---

(21 Jun 2023, 3:43 pm)Washingtonian wrote   This made me laugh out loud. Love it! Totally agree mind! It's the same with supermarkets etc these days. They use the stories reported in the news as an excuse to hike up prices, yet they have no problem building and opening new stores all the time and expanding further.

Another thing I've thought about which I can't understand is the price of ticketing. For example, my Sister-in-Law lives in Lambton and if she wants to take my nieces to soft play in Concord it costs more to use the 50 which is a more direct route. Yet when the 83/84 went through Lambton, it cost less to go to Concord yet it went through Biddick, Brady Square, Barmston and Peel Retail Park. Interesting to note that the 50 is the only service to Concord from Lambton now! Maximising profits while incurring less costs! Like any of us if she had a car she would go the most direct route and use less fuel, and pay less money. Don't understand the logic here but no doubt there will be some "reason". No wonder the car wins every time but yet people will be blamed for the "climate crisis" as a result! I'm sure these bus companies and haulage companies get fuel cheaper as well. In 1997 I remember lorries blocking petrol stations and fuel depots out of protest. Interesting how that never happens now, despite the fuel prices reaching ridiculous levels last year! They must think people are stupid.

---

I completely agree with you.

---

This is an interesting point. How come the demand for the likes of the Metro and light rail network is always so high and yet the bus industry is falling further behind? The Metros in the morning are often rammed, particularly towards Newcastle. In a lot of ways I fear for the bus industry if the metro was ever to expand into the likes of Washington etc.

Ngl, Pacers were absolute dogshit

(21 Jun 2023, 3:43 pm)Washingtonian wrote This is an interesting point. How come the demand for the likes of the Metro and light rail network is always so high and yet the bus industry is falling further behind? The Metros in the morning are often rammed, particularly towards Newcastle. In a lot of ways I fear for the bus industry if the metro was ever to expand into the likes of Washington etc.

See personally I think they do have a future but they need to compliment trains and the Metro rather than outright compete against them. Like just to pick Hexham for an example, if the likes of 687, ran from Newborough to the train station and it's timetabled to connect with a train it would work. Similar in the opposite direction where you can get off certain trains and the bus will be sitting there waiting and takes you the last mile.

Instead we have a bus to the bus station, miles away from the train station 7 minutes after the 685 departs. Want to go to Newcastle ? Good luck.

The 4 is an example of a good connecting bus and it's actually quite busy aswell really. There's always quite good enough loads at the Regent Centre aswell whenever I've passed through, imagine if you could actually buy a bus and metro ticket from Ashington... It would be a good start, if these new tickets ever happen.

(21 Jun 2023, 4:46 pm)Storx wrote See personally I think they do have a future but they need to compliment trains and the Metro rather than outright compete against them. Like just to pick Hexham for an example, if the likes of 687, ran from Newborough to the train station and it's timetabled to connect with a train it would work. Similar in the opposite direction where you can get off certain trains and the bus will be sitting there waiting and takes you the last mile.

Instead we have a bus to the bus station, miles away from the train station 7 minutes after the 685 departs. Want to go to Newcastle ? Good luck.

The 4 is an example of a good connecting bus and it's actually quite busy aswell really. There's always quite good enough loads at the Regent Centre aswell whenever I've passed through, imagine if you could actually buy a bus and metro ticket from Ashington... It would be a good start, if these new tickets ever happen.

It would be nice if GNE bus connected never mind a bus and a rail company woorking together!

(21 Jun 2023, 3:43 pm)Washingtonian wrote   This made me laugh out loud. Love it! Totally agree mind! It's the same with supermarkets etc these days. They use the stories reported in the news as an excuse to hike up prices, yet they have no problem building and opening new stores all the time and expanding further.

Another thing I've thought about which I can't understand is the price of ticketing. For example, my Sister-in-Law lives in Lambton and if she wants to take my nieces to soft play in Concord it costs more to use the 50 which is a more direct route. Yet when the 83/84 went through Lambton, it cost less to go to Concord yet it went through Biddick, Brady Square, Barmston and Peel Retail Park. Interesting to note that the 50 is the only service to Concord from Lambton now! Maximising profits while incurring less costs! Like any of us if she had a car she would go the most direct route and use less fuel, and pay less money. Don't understand the logic here but no doubt there will be some "reason". No wonder the car wins every time but yet people will be blamed for the "climate crisis" as a result! I'm sure these bus companies and haulage companies get fuel cheaper as well. In 1997 I remember lorries blocking petrol stations and fuel depots out of protest. Interesting how that never happens now, despite the fuel prices reaching ridiculous levels last year! They must think people are stupid.

---

I completely agree with you.

---

This is an interesting point. How come the demand for the likes of the Metro and light rail network is always so high and yet the bus industry is falling further behind? The Metros in the morning are often rammed, particularly towards Newcastle. In a lot of ways I fear for the bus industry if the metro was ever to expand into the likes of Washington etc.

Metro don’t actually know how many passengers they carry, so take any figures from them with a pinch of salt.

Don’t forget that the “short” peak Metro trains have all been cancelled so it’s no wonder they are “rammed” in the peak.

(21 Jun 2023, 4:46 pm)Storx wrote See personally I think they do have a future but they need to compliment trains and the Metro rather than outright compete against them. Like just to pick Hexham for an example, if the likes of 687, ran from Newborough to the train station and it's timetabled to connect with a train it would work. Similar in the opposite direction where you can get off certain trains and the bus will be sitting there waiting and takes you the last mile.

Instead we have a bus to the bus station, miles away from the train station 7 minutes after the 685 departs. Want to go to Newcastle ? Good luck. 

The 4 is an example of a good connecting bus and it's actually quite busy aswell really. There's always quite good enough loads at the Regent Centre aswell whenever I've passed through, imagine if you could actually buy a bus and metro ticket from Ashington... It would be a good start, if these new tickets ever happen.

It's the whole bigger picture that's so glaringly obvious - but keeps being missed.

The X84/X85 were obviously options for those in the outlying areas. Get a bus to Hexham and using the same ticket, connect for that next stage.
Except the timetables just didn't work. 

There's many other examples. Not sure what it's like now, but Chester was an absolute pain. 
You would think the 34 would be timed to sync with maybe a 50, 78 or 21.
It would be the obvious thing to have a 78 timed to connect with a 21
It never happened and inevitably played a part in the drop off in numbers across the board.

(21 Jun 2023, 6:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote It's the whole bigger picture that's so glaringly obvious - but keeps being missed.

The X84/X85 were obviously options for those in the outlying areas. Get a bus to Hexham and using the same ticket, connect for that next stage.
Except the timetables just didn't work. 

There's many other examples. Not sure what it's like now, but Chester was an absolute pain. 
You would think the 34 would be timed to sync with maybe a 50, 78 or 21.
It would be the obvious thing to have a 78 timed to connect with a 21
It never happened and inevitably played a part in the drop off in numbers across the board.

Yeah totally agreed, it just seems like basics to me but it happens all over the place. I can always remember the 19 with the Metro was particularly bad I'm sure the driver's used to use the Metro leaving towards Whitley Bay to pull off towards Cramlington.

It's all good doing hub and spoke but when the spokes don't connect it's a very broken system. It's even worse when it's 2 operators, with 2 different ticket types, in 2 different bus stations / streets at the opposite end of the city in the case of Newcastle if say someone wanted to travel from Gosforth to the QE which isn't exactly an unreasable commute. Then people wonder why everyone is in the car.

(21 Jun 2023, 6:52 pm)Storx wrote Yeah totally agreed, it just seems like basics to me but it happens all over the place. I can always remember the 19 with the Metro was particularly bad I'm sure the driver's used to use the Metro leaving towards Whitley Bay to pull off towards Cramlington.

It's all good doing hub and spoke but when the spokes don't connect it's a very broken system. It's even worse when it's 2 operators, with 2 different ticket types, in 2 different bus stations / streets at the opposite end of the city in the case of Newcastle if say someone wanted to travel from Gosforth to the QE which isn't exactly an unreasable commute. Then people wonder why everyone is in the car.

Don't know if anyone uses the shields ferry but I remember when i was a lad me and my dad used to get it across to N shields and in the summer there was the 333open topper.  The driver always waited for everyone to get off the ferry before leaving. Last time i used it i jogged off the ferry to the bus stop and just caught the 19?? i think and he pulled away straight away. Luckily for ferry users who wanted to get up the bank to N shields they were digging up and their were traffic lights near the stop and he got held up there - he even let them on but if he'd waited at the stop for 2 minutes everyone would have got on without any problem!