Just something I was thinking about while sitting on an X7, 30 Minutes late again and remembered why I never use this while an X7 standing load on a single decker and an X8 following it in the other direction both also 30 Minutes. 

What's the most unreliable route in the North East due to reasons beyond the operator so not driver cancellations etc as the X7/X8 lately must be hard to beat?

I know it's always been a hated route for drivers though even in its 363/364 days.

(24 May 2023, 4:37 pm)Storx wrote Just something I was thinking about while sitting on an X7, 30 Minutes late again and remembered why I never use this while an X7 standing load on a single decker and an X8 following it in the other direction both also 30 Minutes. 

What's the most unreliable route in the North East due to reasons beyond the operator so not driver cancellations etc as the X7/X8 lately must be hard to beat?

I know it's always been a hated route for drivers though even in its 363/364 days.

I would have said the 65 pre-changes. 

It depends on what you mean by unrealible, is that not leaving on time (within 2 mins), or the longest delayed journey, I had an X21 which was 55 mins late.

If you mean by always late/never leave on time, GNE defo have a few, X1/56/21/X21/20/20A/10/10A/10B, Basically any consett route (me and my friend joke that if a consett bus is 10 mins late its practically on time)

(24 May 2023, 4:54 pm)Unber43 wrote I would have said the 65 pre-changes. 

It depends on what you mean by unrealible, is that not leaving on time (within 2 mins), or the longest delayed journey, I had an X21 which was 55 mins late.

If you mean by always late/never leave on time, GNE defo have a few, X1/56/21/X21/20/20A/10/10A/10B, Basically any consett route (me and my friend joke that if a consett bus is 10 mins late its practically on time)

Just buses which are consistently late because of reasons outside of operational problems. 

Like the X7 is basically 20 - 25 minutes late every night nowadays at peak time because of the farce at Gosforth Park (which is worse than ever).

(24 May 2023, 6:53 pm)Storx wrote Just buses which are consistently late because of reasons outside of operational problems. 

Like the X7 is basically 20 - 25 minutes late every night nowadays at peak time because of the farce at Gosforth Park (which is worse than ever).

The Go North East X1 is taking a beating with congestion at the moment.

The works on the Washington Highway are causing huge disruption after The Galleries - the need to come off at the next junction to go back on again, and resultant traffic.

I was driving between meetings earlier and got caught in traffic for 25 minutes to get between the two slip roads. Something that would normally take less than 25 seconds.


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(24 May 2023, 6:53 pm)Storx wrote Just buses which are consistently late because of reasons outside of operational problems. 

Like the X7 is basically 20 - 25 minutes late every night nowadays at peak time because of the farce at Gosforth Park (which is worse than ever).

Case in point today, I arrived at Hatymarket for the 17:10 X7 home, I usually sit in the seats for the lay down bay Y as queuing is a free for all at stand V for the X7/8/9. A X7 arrives at the same times as a X8, the X7 being the previous 16:40 departure, and a single decker, 1502 - NK12 FLP, which leaves at 17:13 rather toasty. Traffic was backed up from Matthew Bank to Haddricks Mill roundabout, and again from the Gosforth Park/Dobbies/Moorfields roundabout and the Sandy Lane roundabout. By the time it got into Seghill, that service was almost 1 hour behind schedule.

IMHO the problem with the X7/8 (and the 363/364 before it) is that the routes are too convoluted and pass through two major pinch pints (Haddricks Mill and the Sandy Lane roundabouts), with the recent "improvement" schemes doing nowt to help. How to solve it? In the past the seem to work better when they don't interwork with each other, and perhaps being radical, you could divert the X7 along the Coast Road to Silverlink, then up the A19 to the Killingworth turn off and then up the Backworth Lonnen to Seghill, though I doubt that would be popular with the reasoned of Burradon or the new sprawling estates along the A189.

(24 May 2023, 6:53 pm)Storx wrote Just buses which are consistently late because of reasons outside of operational problems. 

Like the X7 is basically 20 - 25 minutes late every night nowadays at peak time because of the farce at Gosforth Park (which is worse than ever).

The 60's are constantly late in the afternoon as well as the 21's seem to face severe delays as well. The 56 is practically always late on a night and the 20/20A's often to run delays.

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(24 May 2023, 8:13 pm)nova347 wrote The 60's are constantly late in the afternoon as well as the 21's seem to face severe delays as well. The 56 is practically always late on a night and the 20/20A's often to run delays.

But on a Sunday the 9/24/26/5/61A/35A interworking pattern, they are always delayed.

(24 May 2023, 7:58 pm)Dan wrote The Go North East X1 is taking a beating with congestion at the moment.

The works on the Washington Highway are causing huge disruption after The Galleries - the need to come off at the next junction to go back on again, and resultant traffic.

I was driving between meetings earlier and got caught in traffic for 25 minutes to get between the two slip roads. Something that would normally take less than 25 seconds.


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Wasn't aware of that one, one to avoid. Quite often around there at rush hour mind.

(24 May 2023, 8:07 pm)solsburian wrote Case in point today, I arrived at Hatymarket for the 17:10 X7 home, I usually sit in the seats for the lay down bay Y as queuing is a free for all at stand V for the X7/8/9. A X7 arrives at the same times as a X8, the X7 being the previous 16:40 departure, and a single decker, 1502 - NK12 FLP, which leaves at 17:13 rather toasty. Traffic was backed up from Matthew Bank to Haddricks Mill roundabout, and again from the Gosforth Park/Dobbies/Moorfields roundabout and the Sandy Lane roundabout. By the time it got into Seghill, that service was almost 1 hour behind schedule.

IMHO the problem with the X7/8 (and the 363/364 before it) is that the routes are too convoluted and pass through two major pinch pints (Haddricks Mill and the Sandy Lane roundabouts), with the recent "improvement" schemes doing nowt to help. How to solve it? In the past the seem to work better when they don't interwork with each other, and perhaps being radical, you could divert the X7 along the Coast Road to Silverlink, then up the A19 to the Killingworth turn off and then up the Backworth Lonnen to Seghill, though I doubt that would be popular with the reasoned of Burradon or the new sprawling estates along the A189.

The whole of Sandy Lane is a mess, I really don't understand why they didn't put a bus gate from the Great Lime road, it literally would solve most the issues with buses there. Not to mention it's done nothing, in fact it's made it worse unbelievably.

Haddricks Mill, is a nightmare but to be fair the Coast Road isn't much better as it's a car park from Sandyford all the way through to Corner House on a bad day, used to live in Heaton for a bit and it could take 15 - 20 minutes there aswell.

I saw your bus btw, I really don't understand why it ran as 7601 was 2 minutes behind you with no-one on. Should've dead ran it and got it back on time. Seems like it overtook it at some point aswell, the same happened with the X8's aswell.

Very bad night mind, your bus must be up there with the biggest delay I've ever seen - well it is without any form of accident or weather incident. 58 minutes late takes a beating.

(24 May 2023, 8:57 pm)Storx wrote Wasn't aware of that one, one to avoid. Quite often around there at rush hour mind.


The whole of Sandy Lane is a mess, I really don't understand why they didn't put a bus gate from the Great Lime road, it literally would solve most the issues with buses there. Not to mention it's done nothing, in fact it's made it worse unbelievably.

Haddricks Mill, is a nightmare but to be fair the Coast Road isn't much better as it's a car park from Sandyford all the way through to Corner House on a bad day, used to live in Heaton for a bit and it could take 15 - 20 minutes there aswell.

I saw your bus btw, I really don't understand why it ran as 7601 was 2 minutes behind you with no-one on. Should've dead ran it and got it back on time. Seems like it overtook it at some point aswell, the same happened with the X8's aswell.

Very bad night mind, your bus must be up there with the biggest delay I've ever seen - well it is without any form of accident or weather incident. 58 minutes late takes a beating.

If you ever see me on the bus I am look grumpy but I am just introverted 

It is barmy that they will not run something light to try to restore the service, but at the moment Arriva don't seem to have any form of coherent management or decision making.

I suppose the white elephant of many of the routes identified here is poor road infrastructure, and places along the routes that have rail corridors (or mothballed lines) where a station or two could help take the strain. Killingworth comes to mind with all of the housing developments right next to the ECML.

(24 May 2023, 9:45 pm)solsburian wrote If you ever see me on the bus I am look grumpy but I am just introverted 

It is barmy that they will not run something light to try to restore the service, but at the moment Arriva don't seem to have any form of coherent management or decision making.

I suppose the white elephant of many of the routes identified here is poor road infrastructure, and places along the routes that have rail corridors (or mothballed lines) where a station or two could help take the strain. Killingworth comes to mind with all of the housing developments right next to the ECML.

Ha I won't be on the bus for awhile I'll be back to by bus to the Metro then change, mind I won't rant too much about the fact the Metro was late tonight and missed the 57A which was early (just typical) and walked back from Shiremoor.

Mind I still beat the 20:15 X7 which was 20 minutes late (reason I went that way in the first place) so wasn't all bad ironically the bus that you were on which never caught up

Yeah totally agreed though, or at least build proper infrastructure before building tonnes of houses in an area with serious traffic problems in the first place. Sandy Lane badly needs bypassed by the dual carriageway that was planned years ago but never happened. It doesn't help that Moor Farm is a car park lately either mind. Don't know what's happened there but it's always back to the Backworth junction lately and the traffic through Seghill and Delaval is getting worse.

Whole network is a mess, quicker the Blyth and Tyne railway opens the better as I'll be using pretty much all the time tbh, even known it involves a 15 minute walk.

38/51/52/306/307/308/309 all take beatings at peak times in the Cradlewell/Sandyford area

No idea if they've improved in the past 5 years but the arriva 22/23/24 used to be all over the place.

X1 hast to be up here

I'd say the 309 can sometimes (especially on a nice day) be very up / down with reliability despite having the same layover times as the March 2019 changes and being standalone (even though slightly longer via High Farm).

Something needs done to sort the congestion issues around Whitley Bay.....maybe the 308 & 309 revert to using Maughan's (omitting Whitley Road) and NTC make the small section of Park Avenue past Sainsburys bus only in both directions.

That roundabout at Murton House Farm hasn't helped matters either!

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And before the July 2022 changes, I'd say the X72 (when it interworked with with the X30/X31) was up there too!

(26 Aug 2023, 8:02 am)L469 YVK wrote I'd say the 309 can sometimes (especially on a nice day) be very up / down with reliability despite having the same layover times as the March 2019 changes and being standalone (even though slightly longer via High Farm).

Something needs done to sort the congestion issues around Whitley Bay.....maybe the 308 & 309 revert to using Maughan's (omitting Whitley Road) and NTC make the small section of Park Avenue past Sainsburys bus only in both directions.

That roundabout at Murton House Farm hasn't helped matters either!

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And before the July 2022 changes, I'd say the X72 (when it interworked with with the X30/X31) was up there too!

After the July changes both the X45/X30/X31 were easily the most unreliable routes, so fixing the X72 just made the entire service worse

The E1/E2/E6 on an evening are now a contender after the July service changes at Sunderland.

PVR on an evening dropped from 6 buses down to 4 and most services end up running 10-15 mins late (not great for an hourly service on each route)

Stagecoach’s 39/40/62/63 routes are horrendous sometimes especially on match days.


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(26 Aug 2023, 11:36 am)j986986 wrote Stagecoach’s 39/40/62/63 routes are horrendous sometimes especially on match days.


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Maybe the fact they go past the stadium has something to do with match day reliably, just a hunch.


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(26 Aug 2023, 10:44 am)Simmy wrote The E1/E2/E6 on an evening are now a contender after the July service changes at Sunderland.

PVR on an evening dropped from 6 buses down to 4 and most services end up running 10-15 mins late (not great for an hourly service on each route)

That E1 seems unrealistically tight mind, 33 minutes for an hourly service seems unrealistic at 6pm. That would be quite difficult to do in a car nevermind in a bus which needs to stop especially if there's any roadworks anywhere.

342 and. 335

I just did a backshift on the Ecos tonight. Constantly chasing my time, and the bus wasn't particularly sluggish either. E6 I found the best, E1 was the worst, E2 was ok. Should point out the E1 is a lot busier than the others even at night.

The daytime timetable is about to get worse though. The extra summer bus is coming off soon and the previous running boards, you got in some cases (mainly on sundays but still) a whole 4 minutes to get from the wheatsheaf, down john street, up fawcett street, load up and depart.

GNEs 2 on a night with there only being 2 services and very little sitting time at each end , ive been 28 minutes late before got to Washington, Did the Mini 2A to Biddick and Back and by the time i loaded and left the Galleries was 35 Late and spent most of the night being questioned why i was late in the end 47 minutes late getting back to depot , company seems to think that its the only vehicle on the road we hit every green light and carry no passengers so running times reflect that, and with only 2 services running control are hesitant to fit you back in as it means there might not be a bus for 2 hours at stops.

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(27 Aug 2023, 9:07 am)Theboyle92 wrote GNEs 2 on a night with there only being 2 services and very little sitting time at each end , ive been 28 minutes late before got to Washington, Did the Mini 2A to Biddick and Back and by the time i loaded and left the Galleries was 35 Late and spent most of the night being questioned why i was late in the end 47 minutes late getting back to depot , company seems to think that its the only vehicle on the road we hit every green light and carry no passengers so running times reflect that, and with only 2 services running control are hesitant to fit you back in as it means there might not be a bus for 2 hours at stops.

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Which leads back almost like a butterfly effect, to the comments I made in the 'driver abandons the 21' thread.

(27 Aug 2023, 12:15 am)F114TML wrote I just did a backshift on the Ecos tonight. Constantly chasing my time, and the bus wasn't particularly sluggish either. E6 I found the best, E1 was the worst, E2 was ok. Should point out the E1 is a lot busier than the others even at night.

The daytime timetable is about to get worse though. The extra summer bus is coming off soon and the previous running boards, you got in some cases (mainly on sundays but still) a whole 4 minutes to get from the wheatsheaf, down john street, up fawcett street, load up and depart.

I think this is a problem right across the networks. The people who put the route and timetable down on paper, are highly unlikely to be able to achieve it themselves if they were behind the wheel.

I don't use those Es all too frequently, but every time I do they tend to be busy from each end. The bus shouldn't need to be turbo-charged to keep to timetable.

(27 Aug 2023, 9:07 am)Theboyle92 wrote GNEs 2 on a night with there only being 2 services and very little sitting time at each end , ive been 28 minutes late before got to Washington, Did the Mini 2A to Biddick and Back and by the time i loaded and left the Galleries was 35 Late and spent most of the night being questioned why i was late in the end 47 minutes late getting back to depot , company seems to think that its the only vehicle on the road we hit every green light and carry no passengers so running times reflect that, and with only 2 services running control are hesitant to fit you back in as it means there might not be a bus for 2 hours at stops.

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Most of the day, that 2 operates with an extra 13 minutes than it does on an evening. I know there's less traffic in most places, but you still have to content with Green Terrace and the same traffic lights.

My favourite timing fail is the 20 from North Road to Durham Hospital. The timing is 2 minutes, but if you put the exact same route into Google Maps it times it at 4 mintues.

(27 Aug 2023, 3:12 pm)deanmachine wrote My favourite timing fail is the 20 from North Road to Durham Hospital. The timing is 2 minutes, but if you put the exact same route into Google Maps it times it at 4 mintues.

Yes that one does make me laugh especially if you have a bus that hates climbing up hills add another 2/3 minutes onto that ...could leave durham on time and be 6 minutes late into framwellgate moor

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2/2A is quite bad they need more layover at Silksworth and Washington.

I can see Stagecoach's 37 having issues when that starts

The 21 is having an award winning day today mind.

Pre match nothing went from Chester towards low fell for over 30 minutes. I appreciate traffic can be a challenge but this was a thing pre covid and A1 roadworks

A 40 minute gap out of town

The closure of Chester hasn’t helped at all. There’s no way for them to react and the fact their up for these awards entirely clouds they are utterly inept

(27 Aug 2023, 8:09 pm)Ambassador wrote The 21 is having an award winning day today mind.

Pre match nothing went from Chester towards low fell for over 30 minutes. I appreciate traffic can be a challenge but this was a thing pre covid and A1 roadworks

A 40 minute gap out of town

The closure of Chester hasn’t helped at all. There’s no way for them to react and the fact their up for these awards entirely clouds they are utterly inept

Whats the X21 like now its at Gateshead, just as bad?

(27 Aug 2023, 6:08 pm)Unber43 wrote 2/2A is quite bad they need more layover at Silksworth and Washington.

It would be alright if they removed the 2A to biddick and back on an evening as it very very rarely picks anybody up would save around 12/13 minutes that could be split at both ends to allow for any late running diversions etc

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