Was listening to some people at Gateshead talking about the new bus station, let's just say they didn't really have anything nice to say about it!

Their biggest annoyance was that they can get a bus there but not one back home!

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(04 Sep 2023, 1:23 pm)Storx wrote Lot's of drunks etc, people going to see a show with kids etc. Not exactly the areas you want to go through.

If I'm right, Leeds pretty much works like this in terms of corridors. I actually really like it works well as the vast majority of areas have a direct link to the train station to interchange.



I don't know how feasable it would be but I'd always love to swap Haymarket and the Gateshead services around so all the Gateshead services serve Haymarket and Eldon Square and the Great North services heading down John Dobson Street and head down to Central like so:



Would give much much better connections for everyone as people from Gosforth, Cramlington, Morpeth would have a direct link to Newcastle Central and also stop the likes of the 56 clogging up around Market Street and remove buses from Market Street itself which is a horrid place currently, for the Stagecoach services moved from Blackett Street.

If I'm right it means that everyone would have a connection to every bus somewhere in Newcastle aswell.

Gosforth, Cramlington and Morpeth already have a direct rail connection to Central just like the Ashington line will have whenever it opens.

(04 Sep 2023, 5:26 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Was listening to some people at Gateshead talking about the new bus station, let's just say they didn't really have anything nice to say about it!

Their biggest annoyance was that they can get a bus there but not one back home!

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I agree, it's a bit poor that the 1 back towards Gateshead doesn't serve the new interchange, but I'm surprised you've found some people at Gateshead who do that journey in full? 

It's over half an hour faster doing it by Metro.

(04 Sep 2023, 5:37 pm)Adrian wrote I agree, it's a bit poor that the 1 back towards Gateshead doesn't serve the new interchange, but I'm surprised you've found some people at Gateshead who do that journey in full? 

It's over half an hour faster doing it by Metro.

They were sat at the stand for the 1, so I'm assuming they do?

They were older so perhaps they just didn't want to pay for a Metro Gold card or whatever it's called.

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(04 Sep 2023, 5:36 pm)RMF1254 wrote Gosforth, Cramlington and Morpeth already have a direct rail connection to Central just like the Ashington line will have whenever it opens.

Gosforth definitely doesn't mind. Cramlington's service is appalling but it's more about the in-between aswell the likes of Seaton Burn etc. 

Obviously could make the case for only some buses to run through and terminate the X7-X11/X21/X22 short as they don't need to go through

(04 Sep 2023, 5:58 pm)Storx wrote Gosforth definitely doesn't mind. Cramlington's service is appalling but it's more about the in-between aswell the likes of Seaton Burn etc. 

Obviously could make the case for only some buses to run through and terminate the X7-X11/X21/X22 short as they don't need to go through

I don’t think Cramlington’s hourly all day service to Morpeth and Newcastle is appalling, plus North Road passengers can change to Metro at Regent Centre (an Interchange that is so hated on this site) for Central and  places south of the river.

You might get a frequency increase soon.

Also 351/335/359 wonder when theyre going to get their solos they need 5 so i would say atleast two spare + the 4 you need for the 41/41A they might aswell become the rockets too

(04 Sep 2023, 5:26 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Was listening to some people at Gateshead talking about the new bus station, let's just say they didn't really have anything nice to say about it!

Their biggest annoyance was that they can get a bus there but not one back home! 

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You sure they weren't talking about the 82 in Birtley? Yet the commercial team wonder why it didn't work...

It's that joined up thinking again. Severely lacking at times.

(04 Sep 2023, 6:15 pm)RMF1254 wrote I don’t think Cramlington’s hourly all day service to Morpeth and Newcastle is appalling, plus North Road passengers can change to Metro at Regent Centre (an Interchange that is so hated on this site) for Central and  places south of the river.

Cramlington's service if it bothers to run. The station is also in the complete wrong place which Senrug wan't to improve but there's no interest because of the capacity issues elsewhere. Hourly is appalling for the size of the town, the whole of SE Northumberland on the ECML is poor and should be at least hourly from Edinburgh to Newcastle stopping at all stations and half hourly from Morpeth South. Try getting a train from Morpeth to Berwick and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Gosforth people would have to double back to use the Regent Centre and passengers on the 306/308/X7/X8 don't pass it at all. There's many places ie Quorum and Cobalt which should have a Central direct link but don't atm without a diversion around everywhere (22).

The Regent Centre is way too far for someone to interchange, any interchanges should be the last mile. Not 3/4 of the journey in, it's just an inconvenience then.

(04 Sep 2023, 6:15 pm)RMF1254 wrote I don’t think Cramlington’s hourly all day service to Morpeth and Newcastle is appalling, plus North Road passengers can change to Metro at Regent Centre (an Interchange that is so hated on this site) for Central and  places south of the river.

It's only conspiracy theorists and some (ex) employees of the bus companies that hate it isn't it?

(04 Sep 2023, 6:31 pm)Storx wrote Cramlington's service if it bothers to run. The station is also in the complete wrong place which Senrug wan't to improve but there's no interest because of the capacity issues elsewhere. Hourly is appalling for the size of the town, the whole of SE Northumberland on the ECML is poor and should be at least hourly from Edinburgh to Newcastle stopping at all stations and half hourly from Morpeth South. Try getting a train from Morpeth to Berwick and you'll see what I'm talking about.

In fairness, does Cramlington need a much better service to Newcastle? 

Excluding the X8 which has a different purpose, the express bus services only take 25-30 minutes from the centre to Haymarket. Incuding the X8, on Arriva services alone there are 12 buses per hour on the Cramlington (shops) to Haymarket corridor, increasing to 15 once you include the 37 and 352. The station is out of the way as you say, so for the majority of the town the bus is going to be more attractive regardless. 

I'm sure I've seen before that capacity on the ECML isn't really there to have half hourly stoppers between Morpeth and Newcastle either (at least if they are also stopping all stations from Edinburgh too), though admittedly I don't know enough to know if that's still accurate?

(04 Sep 2023, 6:58 pm)mb134 wrote In fairness, does Cramlington need a much better service to Newcastle? 

Excluding the X8 which has a different purpose, the express bus services only take 25-30 minutes from the centre to Haymarket. Incuding the X8, on Arriva services alone there are 12 buses per hour on the Cramlington (shops) to Haymarket corridor, increasing to 15 once you include the 37 and 352. The station is out of the way as you say, so for the majority of the town the bus is going to be more attractive regardless. 

I'm sure I've seen before that capacity on the ECML isn't really there to have half hourly stoppers between Morpeth and Newcastle either (at least if they are also stopping all stations from Edinburgh too), though admittedly I don't know enough to know if that's still accurate?

Guess it depends who you're going for. It's much easier to attract someone to use a train who currently uses a car vs a bus which goes the exact same way as you do and sits in the same traffic. Admit the X9/X10/X11 aren't the worst for reliability but when things go wrong they don't half go wrong.

Yeah do believe there is capacity problems, I believe SENRUG are trying to use the free paths to the alternative Lumo services to extend one of the TPE services through running Cramlington, Morpeth, Widdrington, Alnmouth, Berwick, Reston, Dunbar, Edinburgh. I believe there's interest from Scotrail for similar aswell since Reston is pretty much unserved atm with Berwick shorts filling the gaps.

I know they wanted to move the station South to where the bridge crossing the lines opposite Manor Walks aswell and build a bus station, don't get me started as it's the complete wrong place for a bus station, but moving the station would be a good move imo, it's a bit out in a limb atm. It would be a good place for some Intercity services to serve SE Northumberland, especially Blyth, Cramlington, Dudley etc. I know I'd use it if it was cheap enough heading North rather than doubling back via Newcastle.

(04 Sep 2023, 7:22 pm)Storx wrote Guess it depends who you're going for. It's much easier to attract someone to use a train who currently uses a car vs a bus which goes the exact same way as you do and sits in the same traffic. Admit the X9/X10/X11 aren't the worst for reliability but when things go wrong they don't half go wrong.

Yeah do believe there is capacity problems, I believe SENRUG are trying to use the free paths to the alternative Lumo services to extend one of the TPE services through running Cramlington, Morpeth, Widdrington, Alnmouth, Berwick, Reston, Dunbar, Edinburgh. I believe there's interest from Scotrail for similar aswell since Reston is pretty much unserved atm with Berwick shorts filling the gaps.

I know they wanted to move the station South to where the bridge crossing the lines opposite Manor Walks aswell and build a bus station, don't get me started as it's the complete wrong place for a bus station, but moving the station would be a good move imo, it's a bit out in a limb atm. It would be a good place for some Intercity services to serve SE Northumberland, especially Blyth, Cramlington, Dudley etc. I know I'd use it if it was cheap enough heading North rather than doubling back via Newcastle.

With all of the house building in Killingworth, there is probably a good argument that could be made for a station to be re-instated there (and possibly Dudley too). Looking at the alignments, it odes seem like there was room for additional 3rd and 4th tracks on the ECML in the area, which might work as passing loops now, plus replacing the increasing elderly Sprinters with their pedestrian acceleration with Electric multiple units would help too.

(04 Sep 2023, 11:13 pm)solsburian wrote With all of the house building in Killingworth, there is probably a good argument that could be made for a station to be re-instated there (and possibly Dudley too). Looking at the alignments, it odes seem like there was room for additional 3rd and 4th tracks on the ECML in the area, which might work as passing loops now, plus replacing the increasing elderly Sprinters with their pedestrian acceleration with Electric multiple units would help too.

Aye totally agreed if you could get it to work, could be scope for round Wiltshire Drive aswell then we might not hear about buses along these, tounge in cheek, but there's probably demand for a train station around there. 

It won't happen tho as rail around here is alien.

(03 Sep 2023, 10:10 pm)Storx wrote Bridges shuts earlier, it's quite a detour through some pretty unpleasant areas in an evening when arguably you want to be there.

Leeds is a really bad example btw, quite a lot of buses don't serve the thing at all and do the Leeds loop instead. Leeds is actually one of the better examples of buses serving more areas. The only buses which serve the bus station mainly come from the West, so already serve the city on the way. Not to mention there's quite a lot of cross city links.

https://bustimes.org/services/163-castleford-leeds#map - See the 163 for an example.
https://bustimes.org/services/x98-sky-cl...eeds-2#map - or X98 from Wetherby.

Like, if stuff like the E1/E2/E6/56 served the bus station there that's fair play as they already serve the city but stuff like the 60 etc would be better doing a loop still imo. Maybe serving a stop nearby so people can still change there if needed, it's the best of both worlds like Leeds.

See I don’t know, I actually avoid the 61 when travelling from the Top of Seaham into Sunderland, something I used to do for a few years in two previous jobs, because of the city centre loop, it took too long to get to the interchange. I was connecting to the metro in one case and another bus in the other, so I always opted for the 60,22,23 because they felt much more direct. When the 61 became the 9 it was better because it at least when to the interchange first, most got off there though in my experience. Not many travelled through to alight at Fawcett Street, anyone still on the bus went beyond the city centre. 

People go on about buses being ‘white elephants’, ‘not in the right places etc’ but there still very well used, if they weren’t Go North East wouldn’t send the vast majority of buses into the interchange. I always preferred a bus station because you knew exactly what stand to wait at and buses pulled in, rather than busy City Centre stops where there’s loads of buses passing.

(09 Sep 2023, 9:52 am)Drifter60 wrote See I don’t know, I actually avoid the 61 when travelling from the Top of Seaham into Sunderland, something I used to do for a few years in two previous jobs, because of the city centre loop, it took too long to get to the interchange. I was connecting to the metro in one case and another bus in the other, so I always opted for the 60,22,23 because they felt much more direct. When the 61 became the 9 it was better because it at least when to the interchange first, most got off there though in my experience. Not many travelled through to alight at Fawcett Street, anyone still on the bus went beyond the city centre. 

People go on about buses being ‘white elephants’, ‘not in the right places etc’ but there still very well used, if they weren’t Go North East wouldn’t send the vast majority of buses into the interchange. I always preferred a bus station because you knew exactly what stand to wait at and buses pulled in, rather than busy City Centre stops where there’s loads of buses passing.

Aye no arguments about that, btw on the loop I meant more run straight to the interchange first so something like this, obviously the road from the interchange to Burdon Road would have to be built first though:



Then it means people would have a choice where they get on / off. All North terminators, E1/E2/E6/56 etc doing the green route.

Means everyone would get a direct link to both the interchange and the train station in particular. I agree the Burdon Road link atm sucks though.

(05 Sep 2023, 7:46 am)Storx wrote Aye totally agreed if you could get it to work, could be scope for round Wiltshire Drive aswell then we might not hear about buses along these, tounge in cheek, but there's probably demand for a train station around there. 

It won't happen tho as rail around here is alien.

You could argue one for Benton possibly, allowing interchanging between the metro,and trains for the Northumberland line and theres also peoples work places along there depending where theyre coming from/going to and all the new housing there aswell

North Shields Hub is remarkably spacious for how few people seemed to be using it, at least during the day on Tuesday 26th.

By comparison, Eldon Square Bus Station was rammed whenever I passed through. I guess we should be grateful that it is not as dark and dingy as its predecessor.