(07 Dec 2024, 9:47 am)Storx wrote To be fair the 60-63 changes have been crying out to be done for years. It was an own goal having them all over the place when you look at other similar corridors like the Great North Road in Gosforth which is similar. 

Mind not sure what the 'now' turn up and go nonsense is about since they've decreased the frequency from 14 buses an hour to 12 buses an hour. I'm not including the X6 here as that's also nonsense. 

The Ryhope area is confusing though as I'm not sure what's doing what route. The 63 seems to be doing the 39 route. 61/62/62A is doing the 2/2A route though. 

It feels like it's something like this:


(60 - Blue, 61 - Green, 62/62A - Purple, 63 - Red)

The 63 is very unclear whether it's doing the estates or not, but would make sense since it's no doubt getting the Solo's now, similar with the 61 rejoining at the Green or going via the bypass. I could be very wrong though.

Mind that said, one change I would've made is merged the 33 and 63 together and made a massive loop, would've been an easy change to make and open up new connections.

I mean it’s awful really, the reason why stagecoaches cross city routes work is because they stay in the town. You wouldn’t see a bus from say south shields to sunderland going through all the estates on the way or taking big detours. People coming from east durham want to be in the town and aren’t going to want to spend an extra ten minutes taking a mystery tour through ryhope. Those routes should be part of local links connecting one part of sunderland to another. Main connecting routes out of sunderland should be going down main roads, like for example the 61 doing the 61A route and connecting at maybe grangetown. That way journey times aren’t extended ridiculously and people are getting to where they need to go. Having those local routes means the same too. I give it until the march changes for these to go bust.

No doubt GNE will have full and comprehensive route and timetable guides in place for customers to read and pick up, like they did with the major X bus Derwentwide changes......

(07 Dec 2024, 4:59 pm)ALavery wrote I mean it’s awful really, the reason why stagecoaches cross city routes work is because they stay in the town. You wouldn’t see a bus from say south shields to sunderland going through all the estates on the way or taking big detours. People coming from east durham want to be in the town and aren’t going to want to spend an extra ten minutes taking a mystery tour through ryhope. Those routes should be part of local links connecting one part of sunderland to another. Main connecting routes out of sunderland should be going down main roads, like for example the 61 doing the 61A route and connecting at maybe grangetown. That way journey times aren’t extended ridiculously and people are getting to where they need to go. Having those local routes means the same too. I give it until the march changes for these to go bust.

Can't disagree to be honest, they remind me of the X7/X8 changes which happened, also under Feetham, in SE Northumberland which seen them go through Gosforth or via the Freeman which had very very negative reviews. They didn't last long until that was reversed and they lost customers for certain, as I was one of them at the time where I moved to getting a lift to the Metro instead which meant I had an extra hour in bed going to, I think, college at the time.

Personally I'd just have the 60/61/62 running direct with the 63 doing all the crap instead. People from Silksworth don't need a quick bus as they've got the 33 so it doesn't matter about that going around the world really.

(07 Dec 2024, 4:59 pm)ALavery wrote I mean it’s awful really, the reason why stagecoaches cross city routes work is because they stay in the town. You wouldn’t see a bus from say south shields to sunderland going through all the estates on the way or taking big detours. People coming from east durham want to be in the town and aren’t going to want to spend an extra ten minutes taking a mystery tour through ryhope. Those routes should be part of local links connecting one part of sunderland to another. Main connecting routes out of sunderland should be going down main roads, like for example the 61 doing the 61A route and connecting at maybe grangetown. That way journey times aren’t extended ridiculously and people are getting to where they need to go. Having those local routes means the same too. I give it until the march changes for these to go bust.

Forgive me if I have miss read this but are you saying all stagecoach services go direct from on town/city centre to another.  The example you give of south shields to Sunderland....... I got the E1 from shields to Sunderland expecting it to go along the sea front all the way..... it would have been quicker getting the metro to pelaw, having a pint in the pelaw inn, putting my washing in the washer at my penthouse and then getting metro from pelaw to Sunderland!!! It went all over the shop

(07 Dec 2024, 5:52 pm)Storx wrote Can't disagree to be honest, they remind me of the X7/X8 changes which happened, also under Feetham, in SE Northumberland which seen them go through Gosforth or via the Freeman which had very very negative reviews. They didn't last long until that was reversed and they lost customers for certain, as I was one of them at the time where I moved to getting a lift to the Metro instead which meant I had an extra hour in bed going to, I think, college at the time.

Personally I'd just have the 60/61/62 running direct with the 63 doing all the crap instead. People from Silksworth don't need a quick bus as they've got the 33 so it doesn't matter about that going around the world really.

Exactly my thoughts, the 63 loop someone mentioned earlier would be a much better fit, linking local people to their local area and linking people out of the area to a different one. This might seem like the revolutionary change that people have been wanting with buses serving places more easily and what not but all it is is an inconvenience to those people who use those services as they are now for what they’re for. Realistically the 61 should be left alone, with new routes being made for those local links, especially the cross city ones.

Another thing I want to add is the fact most of these buses are being advertised as turn up and go but as soon as that bus turns to its own route, some services will be up to one bus an hour. The 61 being kept at half hourly is ridiculous, should be at least every 15 minutes with one every half an hour continuing to peterlee.

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(07 Dec 2024, 7:06 pm)Rob44 wrote Forgive me if I have miss read this but are you saying all stagecoach services go direct from on town/city centre to another.  The example you give of south shields to Sunderland....... I got the E1 from shields to Sunderland expecting it to go along the sea front all the way..... it would have been quicker getting the metro to pelaw, having a pint in the pelaw inn, putting my washing in the washer at my penthouse and then getting metro from pelaw to Sunderland!!! It went all over the shop

Not necessarily direct but they still go down main roads, they go through estates but aren’t trundling off of main roads into those estates and taking detours that delay peoples journeys. The south sunderland changes are taking buses connecting people from out of sunderland off of main roads, into estates they don’t need to be in. In south shields for example the E’s take people from one town to another via main roads, whilst other local routes take people in those estates, to either the town where they need to be or to the main roads to connect to other services. I apologise for my over use of main roads lol

So another case of splitting but pairing services together ending in the same number, bit of an end of an era with the 5 going but give it a year, and it'll be back, either paired with the 6 or the 25 reverted back to the 5 again, wonder if North Tyneside will get the same treatment come March

(07 Dec 2024, 7:36 pm)ALavery wrote Exactly my thoughts, the 63 loop someone mentioned earlier would be a much better fit, linking local people to their local area and linking people out of the area to a different one. This might seem like the revolutionary change that people have been wanting with buses serving places more easily and what not but all it is is an inconvenience to those people who use those services as they are now for what they’re for. Realistically the 61 should be left alone, with new routes being made for those local links, especially the cross city ones.

Another thing I want to add is the fact most of these buses are being advertised as turn up and go but as soon as that bus turns to its own route, some services will be up to one bus an hour. The 61 being kept at half hourly is ridiculous, should be at least every 15 minutes with one every half an hour continuing to peterlee.

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Not necessarily direct but they still go down main roads, they go through estates but aren’t trundling off of main roads into those estates and taking detours that delay peoples journeys. The south sunderland changes are taking buses connecting people from out of sunderland off of main roads, into estates they don’t need to be in. In south shields for example the E’s take people from one town to another via main roads, whilst other local routes take people in those estates, to either the town where they need to be or to the main roads to connect to other services. I apologise for my over use of main roads lol

Aye it was me that posted that, agreed though to be fair. Not sure it needs to be every 15 minutes but the network around there in general needs work as services like the 35(32) are stupidly too long aswell.

The 24 is the main bus from South Shields to Sunderland though, whoever posted that, the E1/E2/E6 are more local services really.

They should not pull the 61 from Park Lane under any circumstances

It’s enough to make you miss the old hub and spoke obsession they had

(07 Dec 2024, 8:12 pm)Storx wrote Aye it was me that posted that, agreed though to be fair. Not sure it needs to be every 15 minutes but the network around there in general needs work as services like the 35(32) are stupidly too long aswell.

The 24 is the main bus from South Shields to Sunderland though, whoever posted that, the E1/E2/E6 are more local services really.

Sorry my mistake lol, i thought the 39s were still every 15 minutes.

(07 Dec 2024, 7:36 pm)ALavery wrote Exactly my thoughts, the 63 loop someone mentioned earlier would be a much better fit, linking local people to their local area and linking people out of the area to a different one. This might seem like the revolutionary change that people have been wanting with buses serving places more easily and what not but all it is is an inconvenience to those people who use those services as they are now for what they’re for. Realistically the 61 should be left alone, with new routes being made for those local links, especially the cross city ones.

Another thing I want to add is the fact most of these buses are being advertised as turn up and go but as soon as that bus turns to its own route, some services will be up to one bus an hour. The 61 being kept at half hourly is ridiculous, should be at least every 15 minutes with one every half an hour continuing to peterlee.

It's unlikely we'd see an increase on the Murton to Peterlee stretch any time soon, given I think Durham County Council tender the Peterlee to Murton stretch, originally GNE were removing these links from that area by withdrawing the previous 62 service.

For me they've just merged several routes together to make them more commercially sustainable than what they are in there current format however the changes offer no benefits to customers travelling with Go North East in the Sunderland/South Tyneside areas from what I can see.

I do think the changes to Service 2 have been required for some years as never seen the point of the 2A however again Go North East have failed with this change by dropping the frequency to a "Minimum Service Level Frequency" of Every 20 Minutes. This will likely result in Buses being full and standing and not operating to the scheduled timetable and this a scenario already playing out on the Coaster 1 & Voltra 53/54 in Gateshead, you'd think the higher ups at Go North East would learn from such mistakes by rectifying them but again they continue to make even more mistakes.

(08 Dec 2024, 5:50 pm)Malarkey wrote For me they've just merged several routes together to make them more commercially sustainable than what they are in there current format however the changes offer no benefits to customers travelling with Go North East in the Sunderland/South Tyneside areas from what I can see.

I do think the changes to Service 2 have been required for some years as never seen the point of the 2A however again Go North East have failed with this change by dropping the frequency to a "Minimum Service Level Frequency" of Every 20 Minutes. This will likely result in Buses being full and standing and not operating to the scheduled timetable and this a scenario already playing out on the Coaster 1 & Voltra 53/54 in Gateshead, you'd think the higher ups at Go North East would learn from such mistakes by rectifying them but again they continue to make even more mistakes.

They've merged two routes together to save themselves a bus. Adamantly, it's not a huge footfall to Biddick and the Arts Centre, but the 2/2A combined carry a pretty decent footfall from the Galleries to Penshaw/Sunderland and then again people travelling along Chester Road.

The 2/2A provide a link from Washington to the nearest hospital in Sunderland. The changes, with no purpose other than to tighten the financial margin, actually end up cutting off a chunk of Washington and Penshaw from that. Telling people to use the 8 is no good, as it takes you on a route through Sunderland that most people wouldn't use.

If the purpose is to drop a bus, they could have quite easily re-routed the 2 through Barnwell at its current frequency and had the 2A as a standalone service (even hourly), serving the section of Penshaw that they're cutting off. 

Its worth pointing out that under BSIP, operatators are supposed to ensure "That bus users and effected communities will be consulted with prior to a major route or timetable change to ensure impacts are fully considered.", but this is presented as a fait accompli.

(08 Dec 2024, 7:02 pm)Adrian wrote They've merged two routes together to save themselves a bus. Adamantly, it's not a huge footfall to Biddick and the Arts Centre, but the 2/2A combined carry a pretty decent footfall from the Galleries to Penshaw/Sunderland and then again people travelling along Chester Road.

The 2/2A provide a link from Washington to the nearest hospital in Sunderland. The changes, with no purpose other than to tighten the financial margin, actually end up cutting off a chunk of Washington and Penshaw from that. Telling people to use the 8 is no good, as it takes you on a route through Sunderland that most people wouldn't use.

If the purpose is to drop a bus, they could have quite easily re-routed the 2 through Barnwell at its current frequency and had the 2A as a standalone service (even hourly), serving the section of Penshaw that they're cutting off. 

Its worth pointing out that under BSIP, operatators are supposed to ensure "That bus users and effected communities will be consulted with prior to a major route or timetable change to ensure impacts are fully considered.", but this is presented as a fait accompli.

Absolutely no mention of BSIP being used within these changes though in comparison to previous changes made in September where is it is clearly outlined at the top of the article https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/september-service-changes, I am therefore under the impression Go North East have not used BSIP Funding on this occasion.

For me Biddick is cut off from having a direct service to Sunderland Hospital and that absolutely should be addressed however I do not see Go North East reintroducing the 2A at all, maybe if a variation of the 8 should be introduced following the old X2 route between Washington and Sunderland Royal Hospital that would solve the issue.

With the residents of Barnwell they have the 78 instead on Chester Road (Shiney Row) or the 2 on Wenslydale Cresent (Barnwell) which are in reasonable walking distance, I do still think the 2 should be Every 15 Minutes though.

(08 Dec 2024, 7:02 pm)Adrian wrote They've merged two routes together to save themselves a bus. Adamantly, it's not a huge footfall to Biddick and the Arts Centre, but the 2/2A combined carry a pretty decent footfall from the Galleries to Penshaw/Sunderland and then again people travelling along Chester Road.

The 2/2A provide a link from Washington to the nearest hospital in Sunderland. The changes, with no purpose other than to tighten the financial margin, actually end up cutting off a chunk of Washington and Penshaw from that. Telling people to use the 8 is no good, as it takes you on a route through Sunderland that most people wouldn't use.

If the purpose is to drop a bus, they could have quite easily re-routed the 2 through Barnwell at its current frequency and had the 2A as a standalone service (even hourly), serving the section of Penshaw that they're cutting off. 

Its worth pointing out that under BSIP, operatators are supposed to ensure "That bus users and effected communities will be consulted with prior to a major route or timetable change to ensure impacts are fully considered.", but this is presented as a fait accompli.

Not to mention the 26 going to hourly, the Jarrow - Lukes Lane section is staying half hourly, but there's people complaining at the Shields - Jarrow bus going to hourly.

(08 Dec 2024, 10:04 pm)deanmachine wrote Not to mention the 26 going to hourly, the Jarrow - Lukes Lane section is staying half hourly, but there's people complaining at the Shields - Jarrow bus going to hourly.

Wasnt at one point when it was the 88/88A it was every 15 mins quite a reduction in just a few years

(08 Dec 2024, 10:04 pm)deanmachine wrote Not to mention the 26 going to hourly, the Jarrow - Lukes Lane section is staying half hourly, but there's people complaining at the Shields - Jarrow bus going to hourly.

I don't know that part of the network well enough to have an informed opinion of it, but it does seem a bit bizarre that they're cutting a service and trying to sell the positive as providing a 'new link' that is already covered by the much faster Metro...

The communication as a whole is rubbish. None of the changes are really explained to a level where customers will understand, as they insist on trying to cloud negatives with a smokescreen.

It's OK though. They won an award from their fellow corporate backpatters for 'Get your bum on board' 

From what I can make out 

61 Pennywell to Murton
39 39A renumbered 62/62A Pennywell to Doxford international 
Think 62A might serve esdale and tunstall bank estate 
39B axed 
2 Sunderland to Washington only as it’s used to be. 
2A axed
63 Sunderland Ryhope Silksworth (the old 42 service or 142 route from those who can remember)
33 (the old 133 service route)

Wonder if these changes will allow the last 3 Versa's at Deptford to be withdrawn?

(09 Dec 2024, 6:32 am)Michael wrote Wonder if these changes will allow the last 3 Versa's at Deptford to be withdrawn?

Just had 3 more transferred in havent they

8321, 8322, 8324

(08 Dec 2024, 10:04 pm)deanmachine wrote Not to mention the 26 going to hourly, the Jarrow - Lukes Lane section is staying half hourly, but there's people complaining at the Shields - Jarrow bus going to hourly.

Well the 26 is the only direct link Hebburn has to South Tyneside Hospital I wouldn't be happy if I had to wait an hour for the next bus.

Also it's not really encouraging people to use the bus is it

(09 Dec 2024, 10:50 am)Ds1197 wrote Well the 26 is the only direct link Hebburn has to South Tyneside Hospital I wouldn't be happy if I had to wait an hour for the next bus.

Also it's not really encouraging people to use the bus is it

It didn't really occur to me when I read the info, but I've seen a lot of people very mad at it on a South Tyneside Parent Network Facebook group, they don't like the idea of an hourly service around Fellgate either. I do drive the 26 quite often, and I don't think it's quiet enough to be dropped down to an hourly service, during the day at least, but then again, I'm not seeing the passenger numbers at head office.

(09 Dec 2024, 11:24 am)deanmachine wrote It didn't really occur to me when I read the info, but I've seen a lot of people very mad at it on a South Tyneside Parent Network Facebook group. I do drive the 26 quite often, and I don't think it's quiet enough to be dropped down to an hourly service, during the day at least, but then again, I'm not seeing the passenger numbers at head office.

I wonder if they are either?

As has been posted elsewhere on here, this is a potential downside of fares not being issued correctly since the cap came in.

(09 Dec 2024, 8:54 am)LVK 404L wrote Just had 3 more transferred in havent they

8321, 8322, 8324

Never even knew that, unless I missed the post

(09 Dec 2024, 12:53 pm)Michael wrote Never even knew that, unless I missed the post

Back to where they started life on simplicity.

(08 Dec 2024, 9:05 pm)Malarkey wrote Absolutely no mention of BSIP being used within these changes though in comparison to previous changes made in September where is it is clearly outlined at the top of the article https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/september-service-changes, I am therefore under the impression Go North East have not used BSIP Funding on this occasion.

For me Biddick is cut off from having a direct service to Sunderland Hospital and that absolutely should be addressed however I do not see Go North East reintroducing the 2A at all, maybe if a variation of the 8 should be introduced following the old X2 route between Washington and Sunderland Royal Hospital that would solve the issue.

With the residents of Barnwell they have the 78 instead on Chester Road (Shiney Row) or the 2 on Wenslydale Cresent (Barnwell) which are in reasonable walking distance, I do still think the 2 should be Every 15 Minutes though.

I missed this post last night, but I'm not suggesting that this is a BSIP funded service in full (though I do believe that some funding was used to support the evening trips). GNE are however part of the Enhanced Partnership (which the BSIP is the front-end/plan of), which is statute under the Transport Act 2000, and it was a condition of eligibility for certain funding streams - not just what is referred to as 'BSIP money'. This includes the obligation to consult, per the Bus Passenger Charter.

You can read the formal notice here: https://www.northeast-ca.gov.uk/download...rators.pdf

I don't see why those living on the 8 route should suffer a detriment of service to provide a 2A either. It should be possible to serve multiple places, without needing to rob Peter to pay Paul.

(09 Dec 2024, 3:02 pm)Adrian wrote I missed this post last night, but I'm not suggesting that this is a BSIP funded service in full (though I do believe that some funding was used to support the evening trips). GNE are however part of the Enhanced Partnership (which the BSIP is the front-end/plan of), which is statute under the Transport Act 2000, and it was a condition of eligibility for certain funding streams - not just what is referred to as 'BSIP money'. This includes the obligation to consult, per the Bus Passenger Charter.

You can read the formal notice here: https://www.northeast-ca.gov.uk/download...rators.pdf

I don't see why those living on the 8 route should suffer a detriment of service to provide a 2A either. It should be possible to serve multiple places, without needing to rob Peter to pay Paul. 

But that's what they do. It appears they don't know any other way. 

And it's pretty evident when we've seen in the fleet size discussion elsewhere.

Maximum profits out of minimum resource. 
Nailed the minimum resource element. If only they could get the profit sorted...

(09 Dec 2024, 2:26 pm)Acky81 wrote Back to where they started life on simplicity.

I remember when they launched the 36, sure it was free for the first 2 weeks... Stagecoach won that battle in North Sunderland estates.

From what I can see these changes are pretty detrimental to GNE passengers. 

61 - Improved connections to Royal Hospital, but still poor service and pointless doubling back in Murton to get to Peterlee
62/62A - just a renumbered 39A/B however twice the amount of buses to Pennywell, (9 bph combined with the Stagecoach 20 - just overkill)
63 - Ryhope's (and therefore connections from 22/60/61) are lost to Doxford park. People have to now connect at Grangetown. Also loss of connections to Leechmere ASDA)

25 - Even worse connections, my gf lives in Boldon and says that the current timetabling puts the 5/50 leapfrogging eachother. So was this intentional to make the 5 less viable? How can this be if the buses are always rammed (especially at peaks)...
26 - West of Jarrow to South Shields/South Tyneside Hospital is unforgivable. Again buses are usually rammed at peaks. Right now there are 4 (GNE) bph to ST Hospital from around South Shields, this will reduce to 2!
35 - This should have happened a long time ago but with the 30 mins frequency for just the 35. Gives lots of little connections and people who want Sunderland quickly can get the metro. So does this mean the nexus funded section from Town End Farm - Boldon is commercial now? 
36 - How many attempts have they had with this route? So the only way they can make this work is to butcher the 35 so the passengers are shared out. One thing I hated when the 9 went to Lukes Lane was the 2 minute walk from York Road to Lukes Lane but the 30 minute journey on the bus. So if someone who lives in Lukes Lane misses their bus to Sunderland they can walk to York Avenue and catch the bus before the one they aimed for and get there 30 mins earlier... Pure pointless nonsense.

32 - Even longer journey for those in Low Moorsley to Sunderland (by doing the 35A route all day), no benefits of this at all, as well as losing the cross city connections from south of East Herrington). 

So they have done this to tidy up the numbering system yet forgot about the 34? So the services in sunderland are now the 32/33/35/36 (seems really stupid) if they can change the 25 to the 22 then they can change the 34 t0 the 23.

The 63 (old 42/142) and 33 (133), going back to Magic Roundabout changes.

Don't understand why so many buses to Pennywell. Whenever I did the 39, the Pennywell end was noticeably quieter (probably due to the fact you normally followed a Stagecoach 20 round most of the way).

The 35 (as it currently is) was, in my opinion a very long route and splitting it is a good idea.