(24 Jan 2025, 11:12 am)Dan wrote I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

Oh god, why were they suspended?

Let me guess....... because they told management what they thought?

(24 Jan 2025, 11:12 am)Dan wrote I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

Incredible. Is this their idea of improved industrial relations, which they spoke about post-strike? 

I suppose looking at the positives, at least if their workforce is out on strike, they won't have to worry about being short of buses.

Calling them children is an insult to children.

How bad does it have to get to have your o-license revoked. Is it a possiblity for GNE

Can't comment on the union stuff but this imo isn't a local issue and a GoAhead issue.

As much as people want to slag off the local managers, I'm not sure it's their choice to get arid of half the workforce - this is being told by someone further above and the fact things have got much much worse since the takeover would suggest where the problems are coming from.

Similar with the investment choices, GNE won't be actively wanting to keep old buses, they're being forced pretty much.

Not to mention the fact the local management haven't been removed would suggest they're doing a 'good job'. Personally I think it's time we need to start looking further up the chain and in reality whoever you put in charge of GoNorthEast would have the same issues and it's purely down to lack of investment. There's probably a reason why Gilbert bolted at the time he did.

(24 Jan 2025, 11:38 am)Storx wrote Can't comment on the union stuff but this imo isn't a local issue and a GoAhead issue.

As much as people want to slag off the local managers, I'm not sure it's their choice to get arid of half the workforce - this is being told by someone further above and the fact things have got much much worse since the takeover would suggest where the problems are coming from.

Similar with the investment choices, GNE won't be actively wanting to keep old buses, they're being forced pretty much.

Not to mention the fact the local management haven't been removed would suggest they're doing a 'good job'. Personally I think it's time we need to start looking further up the chain and in reality whoever you put in charge of GoNorthEast would have the same issues and it's purely down to lack of investment. There's probably a reason why Gilbert bolted at the time he did.

Since their arrival in autumn 2022 and the restructure they brought about, the local leadership has taken various steps to dispatch historic depot-level management in some sort of 'drain the swamp' strategy. One of the three General Managers the current leadership inherited was given his marching orders this time last year, and the Operations Director in the spring. The Operations Director role was sharp filled by one of Featham's prodigies - if I was being cynical, I'd have suggested this was a foregone conclusion and a planned promotion all along. A few long-serving Operations Managers have also been peddled for fairly minor transgressions within the last year. Their overarching strategy seems to be to simply bin those off whose faces don't fit.

(24 Jan 2025, 12:04 pm)R852 PRG wrote Since their arrival in autumn 2022 and the restructure they brought about, the local leadership has taken various steps to dispatch historic depot-level management in some sort of 'drain the swamp' strategy. One of the three General Managers the current leadership inherited was given his marching orders this time last year, and the Operations Director in the spring. The Operations Director role was sharp filled by one of Featham's prodigies - if I was being cynical, I'd have suggested this was a foregone conclusion and a planned promotion all along. A few long-serving Operations Managers have also been peddled for fairly minor transgressions within the last year. Their overarching strategy seems to be to simply bin those off whose faces don't fit.

I'd argue that the decisions to remove certain members of the management team were long overdue. 

There were some who were part of the previous clique and had been making operational choices that had been dubious at best for years. (Just look at the comments made about decisions they made in this very forum, declining passenger numbers, court tribunals etc etc.)

Whether the new clique is any better, is probably the discussion point here.

(24 Jan 2025, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'd argue that some of those decisions to remove certain members of the management team were long overdue. 

There were some who were part of the previous clique and had been making operational choices that had been dubious at best for years. (Just look at the comments made about decisions they made in this very forum, declining passenger numbers etc etc.)

Whether the new clique is any better, is probably the discussion point here.

Without sounding like Storx, you'll hear no arguments from me on that point.

That said, I don't trust that those decisions have been particularly rooted in any assessment of capability, but rather to pave the way for a new, younger generation of management who know next to bugger all about next to bugger all. I think it's fair to say, by and large, while some of those who have been peddled weren't worth writing home about, they could at least hold the pig still to try and put some lipstick on it.

(24 Jan 2025, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'd argue that the decisions to remove certain members of the management team were long overdue. 

There were some who were part of the previous clique and had been making operational choices that had been dubious at best for years. (Just look at the comments made about decisions they made in this very forum, declining passenger numbers, court tribunals etc etc.)

Whether the new clique is any better, is probably the discussion point here.

Not surprised at the old guard being pushed out to be fair and agreed with they should've been removed since the company was making a loss and they were more interested in wasting money on painting buses etc which clearly wasn't working.

But I guess it all depends on what their goal is. If it's to make a profit while getting as little investment as possible since there's no future of the company (franchising) then you can't dispute they're doing a good job since it made a profit. 

If the goal is however to have high customer passenger satisfaction with growth in customer numbers then things might be a bit different. 

Sadly I think it's the first point though and it's basically just managed decline until they lose it anyway so why bother investing millions. You can't really blame local management they're just doing their job in a way. 

Staff at all big companies nowadays are just a number and their is no loyalty (right or wrong that's another debate).

(24 Jan 2025, 12:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'd argue that the decisions to remove certain members of the management team were long overdue. 

There were some who were part of the previous clique and had been making operational choices that had been dubious at best for years. (Just look at the comments made about decisions they made in this very forum, declining passenger numbers, court tribunals etc etc.)

Whether the new clique is any better, is probably the discussion point here.

No. More of the same things you've mentioned, on a developing worse scale.

(24 Jan 2025, 11:12 am)Dan wrote I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

86% In Favour

(24 Jan 2025, 2:58 pm)NL62WVW wrote 86% In Favour

I look forward to waving at the comrades as I drive to Costco to get my cheap petrol

Said this time and time before! But if the Derwentside route changes made in July 2024 allowed more capable (although not 100%) vehicles to move to routes where they're actually needed with interworking changes (keeping Whickham & Dunston half-hourly), yet the management are still planning inefficient interworking patterns whilst the X10 is struggling for suitable spares and even capacity, whilst the X21 still struggles with absolute basket case 4 pot heaps of s***e on 30+ mile round trips, then it clearly highlights the issue!

If I was at Arriva North East right now, I'd be ear-marking some competition out of Belmont. Blyth's DB300's would be more than capable in the interim (DHM - NCL only) if Arriva spent some money in Blyth and cascaded them down! Or even one better, some more cascaded E400MMC from other Arriva areas and some competition against the X21!

Even Stagecoach could probably have a decent shot from one of their C&T depots against the X10 with support from Sunderland and Walkergate!

(24 Jan 2025, 4:56 pm)L469 YVK wrote Said this time and time before! But if the Derwentside route changes made in July 2024 allowed more capable (although not 100%) vehicles to move to routes where they're actually needed with interworking changes (keeping Whickham & Dunston half-hourly), yet the management are still planning inefficient interworking patterns whilst the X10 is struggling for suitable spares and even capacity, whilst the X21 still struggles with absolute basket case 4 pot heaps of s***e on 30+ mile round trips, then it clearly highlights the issue!

If I was at Arriva North East right now, I'd be ear-marking some competition out of Belmont. Blyth's DB300's would be more than capable in the interim  (DHM - NCL only) if Arriva spent some money in Blyth and cascaded them down! Or even one better, some more cascaded E400MMC from other Arriva areas and some competition against the X21!

Even Stagecoach could probably have a decent shot from one of their C&T depots against the X10 with support from Sunderland and Walkergate!

It wouldn’t even look like an unreasonable swipe for Arriva to return the full length X12 to twice hourly and push back against the angel with the 49s.

(24 Jan 2025, 5:07 pm)BusLoverMum wrote It wouldn’t even look like an unreasonable swipe for Arriva to return the full length X12 to twice hourly and push back against the angel with the 49s.

Be better to extend the X46 back through to Newcastle rather than playing with the 49's. GoNorthEast entered the X46 turf, no reason why they can't do the same the opposite way either especially considering it used to do that anyway.

(24 Jan 2025, 1:01 pm)Storx wrote Not surprised at the old guard being pushed out to be fair and agreed with they should've been removed since the company was making a loss and they were more interested in wasting money on painting buses etc which clearly wasn't working.

But I guess it all depends on what their goal is. If it's to make a profit while getting as little investment as possible since there's no future of the company (franchising) then you can't dispute they're doing a good job since it made a profit. 

If the goal is however to have high customer passenger satisfaction with growth in customer numbers then things might be a bit different. 

Sadly I think it's the first point though and it's basically just managed decline until they lose it anyway so why bother investing millions. You can't really blame local management they're just doing their job in a way. 

Staff at all big companies nowadays are just a number and their is no loyalty (right or wrong that's another debate).

The overwhelming majority of those who have been shown the door for perceived ineptitude or being disagreeable have been operations staff with no oversight as to the painting of buses, and all of whom predated the branding initiatives introduced by Huntley.

(24 Jan 2025, 1:01 pm)Storx wrote Not surprised at the old guard being pushed out to be fair and agreed with they should've been removed since the company was making a loss and they were more interested in wasting money on painting buses etc which clearly wasn't working.

But I guess it all depends on what their goal is. If it's to make a profit while getting as little investment as possible since there's no future of the company (franchising) then you can't dispute they're doing a good job since it made a profit. 

If the goal is however to have high customer passenger satisfaction with growth in customer numbers then things might be a bit different. 

Sadly I think it's the first point though and it's basically just managed decline until they lose it anyway so why bother investing millions. You can't really blame local management they're just doing their job in a way. 

Staff at all big companies nowadays are just a number and their is no loyalty (right or wrong that's another debate).

That goes for senior management as well. 

A owning group which has the likes of more reputable operations like Oxford Citybus, Southern Vectis and Brighton and Hove cannot look at what's going on at GNE and think "all is well there"

(24 Jan 2025, 6:16 pm)R852 PRG wrote The overwhelming majority of those who have been shown the door for perceived ineptitude or being disagreeable have been operations staff with no oversight as to the painting of buses, and all of whom predated the branding initiatives introduced by Huntley.

Yeah that's fair wasn't aware of their roles obviously can't say much as I don't know what's happened so I'd just be speculating.

(24 Jan 2025, 6:25 pm)DeltaMan wrote That goes for senior management as well. 

A owning group which has the likes of more reputable operations like Oxford Citybus, Southern Vectis and Brighton and Hove cannot look at what's going on at GNE and think "all is well there"

Guess it depends what the goal is, if it's to do managed decline as they see no future (there isn't one because of franchising) then you could argue they're doing a good job. I could see why they could go for that route as why bother spending money up here when by the time the growth impacts the balance sheet you'll lose the routes anyway or you could spend it in Brighton instead and reap the rewards.

Don't agree with that mind, but I could understand how that could happen.

It's hard to tell though as GNE is the only area impacted by franchising so there's nothing compare against. I heard from other forums that GoNorthWest went to the dogs when they found out they lost Queens Road though. Quite a few people commenting on it lately, mainly in comparison to Stagecoach who went out with a bang.

(24 Jan 2025, 2:58 pm)NL62WVW wrote 86% In Favour

Huge majority. 

How many disputes is this now? 
Whack in the issues Featham has had in Yorkshire and Lancashire and he must be close to double figures.

(24 Jan 2025, 2:58 pm)NL62WVW wrote 86% In Favour

Is this for the drivers and for all depots?

(24 Jan 2025, 3:08 pm)Ambassador wrote I look forward to waving at the comrades as I drive to Costco to get my cheap petrol

3 green deckers looking ruined and corrupted on the back wall as I filled up earlier. 
The least Angelic looking vehicles I've seen.

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(24 Jan 2025, 1:12 pm)omnicity4659 wrote No. More of the same things you've mentioned, on a developing worse scale.

A new clique full of fresh ineptitude, rather than the stale ineptitude seen in the previous clique then?

(24 Jan 2025, 8:39 am)Chris 1 wrote Look North reporting on it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9eyzq925yo

"Defects are reported and we are told to just clear fault codes and send them on their way. They'd rather hide the faults than fix them."

What a mental quote, and probably sums up the state of the company. If they can't see the problem, there is no problem, seems to be the mentality. As much as Featham and his lackey Maxfield are ultimately to blame for this, and Nigel has form for running fleets into the ground, depot level management are equally responsible. 

My interpretation of the article, the various things I've seen first hand, and the stories posted on here, is that GNE passengers, drivers, and the general public can probably count themselves lucky that they've not yet been involved in an accident due to GNE's poor maintenance/engineering incompetence.

(24 Jan 2025, 8:49 pm)PH - BQA wrote "Defects are reported and we are told to just clear fault codes and send them on their way. They'd rather hide the faults than fix them."

What a mental quote, and probably sums up the state of the company. If they can't see the problem, there is no problem, seems to be the mentality. As much as Featham and his lackey Maxfield are ultimately to blame for this, and Nigel has form for running fleets into the ground, depot level management are equally responsible. 

My interpretation of the article, the various things I've seen first hand, and the stories posted on here, is that GNE passengers, drivers, and the general public can probably count themselves lucky that they've not yet been involved in an accident due to GNE's poor maintenance/engineering incompetence.

It's an insane way to run a business. Clearly someone who is only interested in the very short term, but never looking at the bigger picture. If only you allowed a bit of time to be invested in fault finding and repair on the bus, rather than insisting it's straight back out on the road, you may have fixed it first time; not the 5th or 6th time it's off the road. For a management with a productivity fetish, it doesn't sound like very productive leadership, does it? 

You're right though, this stinks of Arriva Durham when I used to live through that way. Buses in a mess, breakdowns without replacements or communication, and newer buses being pushed out, only to be replaced by utter heaps. The 09 plate E200 rattleboxes and the ill-fated Tempos spring to mind.

Look at all the Angels on the 51/52/93/94 as they keep getting issues every so many miles and yet theyre put out every day break down, they come fix the fault, then they break down 2 days later

(25 Jan 2025, 4:43 pm)Unber43 wrote Look at all the Angels on the 51/52/93/94 as they keep getting issues every so many miles and yet theyre put out every day break down, they come fix the fault, then they break down 2 days later

No doubt they'll end up at Percy Main once replaced by EV's! 

At least they'll be able to mask over the issues in the interim with some non-leggy B9TLs in the currently controversial areas, then at least will have Arriva's 306 & 308 to bail out the 307 & 309 in the most part if the StreetDecks still problem ridden!

(25 Jan 2025, 8:45 pm)L469 YVK wrote No doubt they'll end up at Percy Main once replaced by EV's! 

At least they'll be able to mask over the issues in the interim with some non-leggy B9TLs in the currently controversial areas, then at least will have Arriva's 306 & 308 to bail out the 307 & 309 in the most part if the StreetDecks still problem ridden!

I hope the Streetdecks go on the 56 but I doubt it, it might be a Riverside service.

(25 Jan 2025, 8:52 pm)Michael wrote I hope the Streetdecks go on the 56 but I doubt it, it might be a Riverside service.

the 56 is either deptford or washington depot, i can't remember which one but it's 100% one or the other. riverside do actually do one morning run from sunderland to newcastle using a crusader and then spends the rest of the day on the 27s

(25 Jan 2025, 8:52 pm)Michael wrote I hope the Streetdecks go on the 56 but I doubt it, it might be a Riverside service.

The 56 was also a candidate back in 2015 for the GKN modifications so could be a shout.

However, Percy Main's B9TLs are the least leggy out of the native GNE examples and are well spec'd interior wise. A lot of good options for them too route wise including:

- 16/16A & X5/X15
- X20
- X21

Could even shift them onto the 10/10A/10B/12 with minimal effort and allow 6071-6085 (which have had varied lives & mileages) take a more backseat role.

(25 Jan 2025, 2:40 pm)Adrian wrote It's an insane way to run a business. Clearly someone who is only interested in the very short term, but never looking at the bigger picture. If only you allowed a bit of time to be invested in fault finding and repair on the bus, rather than insisting it's straight back out on the road, you may have fixed it first time; not the 5th or 6th time it's off the road. For a management with a productivity fetish, it doesn't sound like very productive leadership, does it? 

You're right though, this stinks of Arriva Durham when I used to live through that way. Buses in a mess, breakdowns without replacements or communication, and newer buses being pushed out, only to be replaced by utter heaps. The 09 plate E200 rattleboxes and the ill-fated Tempos spring to mind.

I noticed this comment in the BBC article as well, about newer GNE vehicles being sent to GNW - all of note that I can recall permanently heading West were the Citaros ages ago, which were hardly new even then though?

(25 Jan 2025, 10:30 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I noticed this comment in the BBC article as well, about newer GNE vehicles being sent to GNW - all of note that I can recall permanently heading West were the Citaros ages ago, which were hardly new even then though?

They did send the E200s over when they were some of the newest buses at the company, although I think they all came back eventually.

(25 Jan 2025, 9:46 pm)lewisparker1509 wrote the 56 is either deptford or washington depot, i can't remember which one but it's 100% one or the other. riverside do actually do one morning run from sunderland to newcastle using a crusader and then spends the rest of the day on the 27s

56 is a Sunderland (Deptford) service.