(20 Feb 2025, 8:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote Uncle Ben & Nigel aside, GAG are responsible for running GNE into the ground.

The sooner the bill gets passed into law and NECA can buy out the GNE operation and run it as an arms length company, the better.

You’re looking at 2028 at the very earliest

(20 Feb 2025, 6:54 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Interesting to see that they are particularly worried about the falsehood that the current shitshow is linked to the transfer of higher-standard vehicles from GNE to GNW.  Aside from temp loans of MMCs which have long been back in the GNE fleet now, I'm still not sure what these higher spec ex-NE vehicles are that are supposedly gracing the roads of Manchester.

Two StreetDecks went down the 14 plates and we got 07 G1's to replace so it is kinda true. 

They got sent 4 10 Plate Solars and there are still 06-60 plate deckers and 09 solars 

18 plate solo mini meanwhile 709 is keeping strong

(20 Feb 2025, 10:30 pm)Unber43 wrote Two StreetDecks went down the 14 plates and we got 07 G1's to replace so it is kinda true. 

They got sent 4 10 Plate Solars and there are still 06-60 plate deckers and 09 solars 

18 plate solo mini meanwhile 709 is keeping strong

What StreetDecks?  I know there was the two oddball B5 X-lines but we are talking handful of buses here none of which are exactly new themselves.  If we'd seen a mass exodus of MMCs or whatever then maybe, but the idea any of this is due to sending a handful of odd midlife vehicles to Manchester is nonsense.  The only ones there's really any case around imo are the few solos though I think 709 was supposed to be withdrawn as well around that time but not sure it ever was in reality.

The media and politicians would be better off focusing on the actual reasons - lack of investment in engineering and new vehicles, rather than talking up the impact of transfers of single figure numbers of vehicles between opcos.  It's just a distraction from the real issue.

(20 Feb 2025, 11:05 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote What StreetDecks?  I know there was the two oddball B5 X-lines but we are talking handful of buses here none of which are exactly new themselves.  If we'd seen a mass exodus of MMCs or whatever then maybe, but the idea any of this is due to sending a handful of odd midlife vehicles to Manchester is nonsense.  The only ones there's really any case around imo are the few solos though I think 709 was supposed to be withdrawn as well around that time but not sure it ever was in reality.

The media and politicians would be better off focusing on the actual reasons - lack of investment in engineering and new vehicles, rather than talking up the impact of transfers of single figure numbers of vehicles between opcos.  It's just a distraction from the real issue.

I think it's a misconception formed on the basis of us getting ex-Manchester and ex-London buses to replace some ageing vehicles in the North East fleet. 

Aside from the 13+ year old Citaros, I think the only other significant exit is the B5LHs to East Yorkshire. The ex-Manchester and ex-London stuff appears to have replaced a mixture of Omnicity, Omnidekka and Versas, with slightly newer buses. You could argue that the 3x Solos shouldn't have gone, but they're 14 year old at this point. I don't think it's had a material impact on fleet availability, and I think they'd very much be in the same position.

It'd be a better argument to argue the lack of fleet investment. We've not had any new buses ordered on a commercial basis for coming up to 5 years in September; the last being the Streetdecks and E400MMCs for the Xlines services. There's of course been the handful of Yutongs with significant Government funding, but this is a mere drop in the ocean. The longer you go on not investing, the worse the problem becomes at the point you need to invest.

(Yesterday, 10:55 am)Adrian wrote I think it's a misconception formed on the basis of us getting ex-Manchester and ex-London buses to replace some ageing vehicles in the North East fleet. 

Aside from the 13+ year old Citaros, I think the only other significant exit is the B5LHs to East Yorkshire. The ex-Manchester and ex-London stuff appears to have replaced a mixture of Omnicity, Omnidekka and Versas, with slightly newer buses. You could argue that the 3x Solos shouldn't have gone, but they're 14 year old at this point. I don't think it's had a material impact on fleet availability, and I think they'd very much be in the same position.

It'd be a better argument to argue the lack of fleet investment. We've not had any new buses ordered on a commercial basis for coming up to 5 years in September; the last being the Streetdecks and E400MMCs for the Xlines services. There's of course been the handful of Yutongs with significant Government funding, but this is a mere drop in the ocean. The longer you go on not investing, the worse the problem becomes at the point you need to invest.

If they put the Angel StreetDecks on either the 56 or 307/309 (in working order), that will sort quite a few problems out.

Could be shared out between 16/16A and X20 with current X20 B5TLs doing the X45. None of the B9TLs mentioned are exactly leggy and still have plenty of useful life in them....and much better than what's allocated.

Bit of a gamble putting B5TLs on the X45....but they'd likely be parked up on Sundays due to the interworking patterns, and the spare ratio (2x spare for PVR of 5x) would be generous enough. Not forgetting that StreetLites (Cummins) ran the 45/46/47 for 5 years with no major issues.

(Yesterday, 12:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote If they put the Angel StreetDecks on either the 56 or 307/309 (in working order), that will sort quite a few problems out.

Could be shared out between 16/16A and X20 with current X20 B5TLs doing the X45. None of the B9TLs mentioned are exactly leggy and still have plenty of useful life in them....and much better than what's allocated.

Bit of a gamble putting B5TLs on the X45....but they'd likely be parked up on Sundays due to the interworking patterns, and the spare ratio (2x spare for PVR of 5x) would be generous enough. Not forgetting that StreetLites (Cummins) ran the 45/46/47 for 5 years with no major issues.

Yes, moving the Angel Streetdecks would sort that issue out, if there's brand new vehicles for the 21, but with the other stuff you're just moving the problem around.

GNE have an ageing fleet in some parts, especially amongst the single-deck fleet. It's not been helped by the fact they bought so many new buses between 2013-15, as it means you've just as many needing replacing at the same time.

Replacing tat with slightly better tat is that problem, when what really should be happening is a constant flow of real investment in fleets.

(20 Feb 2025, 6:54 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Interesting to see that they are particularly worried about the falsehood that the current shitshow is linked to the transfer of higher-standard vehicles from GNE to GNW.  Aside from temp loans of MMCs which have long been back in the GNE fleet now, I'm still not sure what these higher spec ex-NE vehicles are that are supposedly gracing the roads of Manchester.

I think shes getting confused, the issue is the buses that HAVE CAME to the North East from Manchester, Edinburgh, London, Yorkshire to run front line services from other regions where they are no longer needed.

(Yesterday, 2:40 pm)WestDurhamSwift wrote I think shes getting confused, the issue is the buses that HAVE CAME to the North East from Manchester, Edinburgh, London, Yorkshire to run front line services from other regions where they are no longer needed.

She is repeating what the union has said. So, either they are both being untruthful or she is just parroting. 

To be honest, as a sufferer of the service, that is the only thing she got wrong.

Using vehicles from elsewhere is not a problem - and if franchising comes in, she will find herself with the same problem, at least to begin with. So she needs to be careful! 

The issue for GNE is they've brought in the dross and virtually no work has been done on them. Some of the ghetto deckers still have dual doors and the anti drug blue lighting from London and that's at the door of the senior management. If that's the image the want to give out, that's on them.

(Yesterday, 12:54 pm)Adrian wrote Yes, moving the Angel Streetdecks would sort that issue out, if there's brand new vehicles for the 21, but with the other stuff you're just moving the problem around.

GNE have an ageing fleet in some parts, especially amongst the single-deck fleet. It's not been helped by the fact they bought so many new buses between 2013-15, as it means you've just as many needing replacing at the same time.

Replacing tat with slightly better tat is that problem, when what really should be happening is a constant flow of real investment in fleets.

I wouldn't say the problem would get moved around though.

- 56 & 307/309 were all earmarked for GKN mods back in 2014 (didn't happen), clearly indicating the B9TLs were (and still are) overkill and heavy on fuel for such routes. The StreetDecks with some TLC should handle these routes fine.

- 6086-17 have had far easier lives compared to other native GNE B9TLs. Still plenty of life left in them and would handle the 16/16A & X20 fine. Much better than the E400 classics on the Diamonds.

- 6308-14 whilst far from perfect, would fill some of the PVR gaps at Consett. 7x with 5x covering the X45 and 2x spare would be perfect and they have good capacity too especially if upseated (tables removed). These on the X45 would greatly help out on the X30s/X70s keeping 4x E400MMC spare rayher than the current mish-mash on the X45 and the mad scramble for singles or other bus swops if an E400MMC goes VOR.

It's probably the E200s that she's referring to. As far as Riverside is concerned, they all disappeared to Manchester, then a couple came back for the X66, they probably don't know they went back to Consett.

Why Move tat that doesnt work to another depot fornsay 307-309

Has the investment been made heavily on driver training buses and Nat Express buses as well as a lot of newer investment to buses at Yorkshire.

North Tyneside has it fair share of tatty buses at present

(Yesterday, 12:54 pm)Adrian wrote GNE have an ageing fleet in some parts, especially amongst the single-deck fleet. It's not been helped by the fact they bought so many new buses between 2013-15, as it means you've just as many needing replacing at the same time.

To be fair the singles aren't that bad really, the oldest bus in regular service is an 11 plate which isn't too bad. 

It's the DD fleet which is the real issue 07 Plates at Consett for example on the X5/X15 as there's nothing newer or the numerous ex London shot buses which are all in frontline work.

There's nothing coming to replace any of it really either. It's not a local issue either the whole GoAhead fleet across the country is just as bad bar the goldmines like Brighton and Oxford. 

The GoEastAnglia fleets are even worse, for example and the fact EYMS is converting life expired B5LH's to Diesel when they're well past mid life is just crazy.

(Yesterday, 6:23 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Why Move tat that doesnt work to another depot fornsay 307-309

Has the investment been made heavily on driver training buses and Nat Express buses as well as a lot of newer investment to buses at Yorkshire.

North Tyneside has it fair share of tatty buses at present

Because the 307 & 309 aren't hard routes.

Other than some short(ish) stretches on the Coast and Station Road > Benfield Road, there's hardly any opportunity to hit 50mph.

The 307 is basically pottering around the doors too.

(Yesterday, 6:23 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Why Move tat that doesnt work to another depot fornsay 307-309

Has the investment been made heavily on driver training buses and Nat Express buses as well as a lot of newer investment to buses at Yorkshire.

North Tyneside has it fair share of tatty buses at present

Have to agree tbh.

16x Streetdeck (21) -> 51/52/93/94/Spares
8x 62 Plate B9TL (58) -> X5/X15/Consett Spares
6177 - 6192 / 3941 - 3943 / 3962 - 3965 -> Out, replaced by Ex London Stock.

That would be a much better use of them, the B9's on the Coast Road are superior vehicles anyway and it's sort of route which a ZEBRA bid could be won. The 51/52/93/94 aren't and they're desperate for something better which isn't more B9's and the Cobalt B9's would be even more wasted on there as it's the route that arguably they'll be heading too.

(Yesterday, 9:25 pm)Storx wrote Have to agree tbh.

16x Streetdeck (21) -> 51/52/93/94/Spares
8x 62 Plate B9TL (58) -> X5/X15/Consett Spares
6177 - 6192 / 3941 - 3943 / 3962 - 3965 -> Out, replaced by Ex London Stock.

That would be a much better use of them, the B9's on the Coast Road are superior vehicles anyway and it's sort of route which a ZEBRA bid could be won. The 51/52/93/94 aren't and they're desperate for something better which isn't more B9's and the Cobalt B9's would be even more wasted on there as it's the route that arguably they'll be heading too.

But surely the Cobalt or 56 B9TLs would be perfect on the likes of the X20, 16/16A, X5/X15.

I get the 51/52/93/94 would also be suited to StreetDecks, but the current B9TLs are massively overkill on the 56, 307/309. And they're in pretty good condition for their age too.

If the 307/309 ended up with StreetDecks, you'd have:

StreetDeck:
- 307 (PVR 6), 309 (PVR 8) + 3x Percy Main spares

B9TL:
- 6101-07 - X20
- 6108-17 - 16/16A (PVR 8) + 2x Consett Spares

B5TL:
- 6308-14 - X45 (PVR 5) + 2x Consett Spares

E400MMC:
- 6336-51 - X30s/X70s (PVR 12) + 4x Consett Spares

If Consett didn't have too many deckers off the road at the same time, would potentially have enough to also cover the X5/X15 (PVR 4) using a mix of B5TL/B9TL/E400MMC

It's not uncommon knowledge that GNE tried to improve fuel economy on 6085-6117 with the GKN mods.

Summing up the current situation, in the words of my Grandad "you can't polish a turd"

theyre not getting rid of 3941-3 anytime soon they'll probably outlast me and im only 21

(Yesterday, 10:00 pm)L469 YVK wrote But surely the Cobalt or 56 B9TLs would be perfect on the likes of the X20, 16/16A, X5/X15.

I get the 51/52/93/94 would also be suited to StreetDecks, but the current B9TLs are massively overkill on the 56, 307/309. And they're in pretty good condition for their age too.

If the 307/309 ended up with StreetDecks, you'd have:

StreetDeck:
- 307 (PVR 6), 309 (PVR 8) + 3x Percy Main spares

B9TL:
- 6101-07 - X20
- 6108-17 - 16/16A (PVR 8) + 2x Consett Spares

B5TL:
- 6308-14 - X45 (PVR 5) + 2x Consett Spares

E400MMC:
- 6336-51 - X30s/X70s (PVR 12) + 4x Consett Spares

If Consett didn't have too many deckers off the road at the same time, would potentially have enough to also cover the X5/X15 (PVR 4) using a mix of B5TL/B9TL/E400MMC

It's not uncommon knowledge that GNE tried to improve fuel economy on 6085-6117 with the GKN mods.

See if you wanted to tidy stuff up, I'd be looking at outside the region. Like Brighton is due another 16 electric vehicles soon at their Conway depot which is replacing 17/67 Plate Streetdeck's.

Personally from a group level, I'd be looking at sending them somewhere like the North East which in return will send the 7 B5TL's to somewhere which has B5's to get shot of a microfleet here and try and tidy stuff up.

I'd also be doing the same thing locally there's currently depots with like 3 random vehicles where everything else is the same.

Like ideally I'd be looking for

Consett: E400/E400MMC
Deptford: B9TL
Percy Main: B9TL
Washington: Streetdeck
Riverside: Streetdeck/B9TL/E400MMC

It's not hard to achieve really, or close to it anyway, with some tinkering around and would massively help depots out like Blyth who can keep there ancient DB300's on the road as they're like bread and butter to them. It's probably one reason why Percy Main do better as they only have limited vehicle types to deal with right now Streetlite's and B9TL's rather than the stupid numbers elsewhere - especially Riverside and Consett.

When I got on the X1 yesterday I asked the driver if there was any seats upstairs. He looked and sai there was. I then had a quick neb at his dash board.

I can confirm the cctv was working and not lights on or tape on his dash board.

all good except 2 coming at same time!

Nearly a month on and still multiple cancellations around Washington

(Today, 7:47 am)Rob44 wrote When I got on the X1 yesterday I asked the driver if there was any seats upstairs. He looked and sai there was.  I then had a quick neb at his dash board. 

I can confirm the cctv was working and not lights on or tape on his dash board.

all good except 2 coming at same time!

Back in the 80s, in my estate, if you were caught having a neb at a man's dashboard you'd get a very firm backhander. How times have changed.

(10 hours ago)DeltaMan wrote Nearly a month on and still multiple cancellations around Washington

I was out and about yesterday morning and followed the route of the X1 for a section just before 945.

Two went south. 

The number of people standing at the northbound stops combined with the reactions when they saw the two southbound services within 5mins of each, other indicated they had been there a while.

---

(3 hours ago)MurdnunoC wrote Back in the 80s, in my estate, if you were caught having a neb at a man's dashboard you'd get a very firm backhander. How times have changed.

Did they have tape on their dashboards?