Mod note: Just a reminder that this thread is on the topic of 2025 Potential Industrial Action. We don't need it to turn into yet another fantasy booking thread.

Nobody has ever resolved a dispute by moving buses around.

If you want to discuss fantasy allocations, then here's some thread suggestions:

• Go North East: Service Suggestions v2
  
• Fictional Service Ideas
  

(24 Feb 2025, 5:19 pm)Adrian wrote Mod note: Just a reminder that this thread is on the topic of 2025 Potential Industrial Action. We don't need it to turn into yet another fantasy booking thread.

Nobody has ever resolved a dispute by moving buses around.

If you want to discuss fantasy allocations, then here's some thread suggestions:

• Go North East: Service Suggestions v2
  
• Fictional Service Ideas
  

Sorry.....but some of the issues (including fleet are very relevant and do warrant discussion.

Some of the upcoming fleet being released for cascading (i.e Angel StreetDecks) could actually help resolve some of GNE's issues with newer vehicles being cascaded.

(24 Feb 2025, 7:36 pm)L469 YVK wrote Sorry.....but some of the issues (including fleet are very relevant and do warrant discussion.

Some of the upcoming fleet being released for cascading (i.e Angel StreetDecks) could actually help resolve some of GNE's issues with newer vehicles being cascaded.

Not sure how that is relevant actually.

The core of the issue is not the vehicles breaking down, but rather how management treat staff who report and/or refuse to drive vehicles which are defective. No matter which depot or routes you palm these vehicles onto, those issues would still remain due to a wider policy which pervades the bus industry (not just GNE specifically) where preventative maintenance is largely sacrificed so that the daily PVR can be met. Unfortunately, this means kicking the can down the road by making temporary repairs to vehicles when a fuller investigation of the defect is probably required - partially due to the availability of engineering staff but more often due to the budgetary constraints to which Engineering Managers have to adhere.

If GNE really wanted to resolve the reliability issue, the solution is actually quite simple: hire more engineering staff to work through the night. That's when the buses are off the road and in the depot, potentially to be worked upon. However, from first-hand knowledge having worked in this type of environment, EMs are reluctant to do this due this as nightshift incurs a premium rate compared to dayshift. So, unless something changes drastically, firefighting is all you can hope for rather than defects being rectified.

Quite depressing really.

It’s an easy fix but you do feel this is a hangover from both sides of the previous dispute and there’s itchy trigger fingers all round to fight again.

(25 Feb 2025, 4:33 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Not sure how that is relevant actually.

The core of the issue is not the vehicles breaking down, but rather how management treat staff who report and/or refuse to drive vehicles which are defective. No matter which depot or routes you palm these vehicles onto, those issues would still remain due to a wider policy which pervades the bus industry (not just GNE specifically) where preventative maintenance is largely sacrificed so that the daily PVR can be met. Unfortunately, this means kicking the can down the road by making temporary repairs to vehicles when a fuller investigation of the defect is probably required - partially due to the availability of engineering staff but more often due to the budgetary constraints to which Engineering Managers have to adhere.

If GNE really wanted to resolve the reliability issue, the solution is actually quite simple: hire more engineering staff to work through the night. That's when the buses are off the road and in the depot, potentially to be worked upon. However, from first-hand knowledge having worked in this type of environment, EMs are reluctant to do this due this as nightshift incurs a premium rate compared to dayshift. So, unless something changes drastically, firefighting is all you can hope for rather than defects being rectified.

I always found it funny that the engineering staff would start work after a good chunk of the fleet had went out on a morning rather than working on getting stuff fixed during the night, but you're right, it would cost too much, and I doubt they'd want to be fixing buses during the night either.

MurdnunoC wroteNot sure how that is relevant actually.

The core of the issue is not the vehicles breaking down, but rather how management treat staff who report and/or refuse to drive vehicles which are defective. No matter which depot or routes you palm these vehicles onto, those issues would still remain due to a wider policy which pervades the bus industry (not just GNE specifically) where preventative maintenance is largely sacrificed so that the daily PVR can be met. Unfortunately, this means kicking the can down the road by making temporary repairs to vehicles when a fuller investigation of the defect is probably required - partially due to the availability of engineering staff but more often due to the budgetary constraints to which Engineering Managers have to adhere.

If GNE really wanted to resolve the reliability issue, the solution is actually quite simple: hire more engineering staff to work through the night. That's when the buses are off the road and in the depot, potentially to be worked upon. However, from first-hand knowledge having worked in this type of environment, EMs are reluctant to do this due this as nightshift incurs a premium rate compared to dayshift. So, unless something changes drastically, firefighting is all you can hope for rather than defects being rectified.

The other problem you have working at night if the depot is in a residential area then you would probably have some nimby kicking off complaining about noise

(26 Feb 2025, 3:18 am)deanmachine wrote I always found it funny that the engineering staff would start work after a good chunk of the fleet had went out on a morning rather than working on getting stuff fixed during the night, but you're right, it would cost too much, and I doubt they'd want to be fixing buses during the night either.

Where I worked, the depot did initially have two nightshift fitters carrying out inspections over five nights from Sunday to Thursday. The inspections were, by and large excluding any major work, successfully completed in-line the maintenance schedule (every 35 days, so every vehicle was inspected once over a 5 week period). However, one of those fitters retired, and instead of replacing them on nightshift, management opted to move all inspections to the day. From that point on, standards started to slp as it was taking longer to inspect the buses due to getting them back off the road whilst in service. By the time I left, the maintenance schedule was nearly three weeks behind where it should have been with no sign of any improvement.

The nightshift premium, at the time, was around £2 over the normal fitters rate. So whilst the expenditure of the workforce would increase, I'd imagine that would be offset by savings elsewhere through, for example, sending fitters and other depot staff (including myself) to chase buses around the operational area to perform driver changeovers in order to get vehicles back to the depot for planned maintenance work.

Completely shortsighted, in my view, but, hey-ho.

---

(26 Feb 2025, 9:38 am)ian foster wrote The other problem you have working at night if the depot is in a residential area then you would probably have some nimby kicking off complaining about noise

In the past this may have been a problem with depot's like Winlaton being situated on the edge of a housing estate, but currently I can't think of any GNE depot aside from perhaps Percy Main and Hexham where this would apply. And something like this could be easily remedied by turning, for example, Hexham into an outstation and moving all major engineering work up to Consett or over to Riverside.

(26 Feb 2025, 10:51 am)MurdnunoC wrote In the past this may have been a problem with depot's like Winlaton being situated on the edge of a housing estate, but currently I can't think of any GNE depot aside from perhaps Percy Main and Hexham where this would apply. And something like this could be easily remedied by turning, for example, Hexham into an outstation and moving all major engineering work up to Consett or over to Riverside.

That's already happened with Consett hasn't it? Was done the same time that CLS was closed.

Mind if you wanted to save some money from it, maybe you could only have one depot open and just have the buses swapped out in the late evening. Every depot has a bus service which heads towards Newcastle, in the evening, so it wouldn't be too difficult to do from Riverside or Saltmeadows really.

Would save money from having multiple depots open in the evening.

(26 Feb 2025, 11:24 am)Storx wrote That's already happened with Consett hasn't it? Was done the same time that CLS was closed.

Mind if you wanted to save some money from it, maybe you could only have one depot open and just have the buses swapped out in the late evening. Every depot has a bus service which heads towards Newcastle, in the evening, so it wouldn't be too difficult to do from Riverside or Saltmeadows really.

Would save money from having multiple depots open in the evening.

I don't think it would save money as you'd still need to recruit a swathe of engineers to work at whichever depot being used to outsource the work, as well as the operational headache of trying to allocate buses to operate on the nearest route to that depot in an attempt to eliminate any additional lost mileage.

Keeping depots open in the evening is a quite sensible decision to take, from both an operational and engineering perspective. The PVR is reduced so, theoretically, it becomes easier to swap vehicles at bus stations for drivers to take back to the depot, and engineers can catch them upon their return to address faults and perform routine maintenance. So it makes more sense to keep multiple depots open in the evening, rather than trying to cram everything into one, where pits or ramps may not be available to do any work required.

(26 Feb 2025, 12:08 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I don't think it would save money as you'd still need to recruit a swathe of engineers to work at whichever depot being used to outsource the work, as well as the operational headache of trying to allocate buses to operate on the nearest route to that depot in an attempt to eliminate any additional lost mileage.

Keeping depots open in the evening is a quite sensible decision to take, from both an operational and engineering perspective. The PVR is reduced so, theoretically, it becomes easier to swap vehicles at bus stations for drivers to take back to the depot, and engineers can catch them upon their return to address faults and perform routine maintenance. So it makes more sense to keep multiple depots open in the evening, rather than trying to cram everything into one, where pits or ramps may not be available to do any work required.

Yeah that's true can't disagree tbh.

I know from an operational stand point it would be completely stupid but I'm surprised there hasn't been an operator which hasn't gone even further and centralised all it's maintenance in one depot yet. Would definitely save the pennies for the pen pushers in an office. They're not exactly a million miles away from it now anyway.

The industry is a right mess really with too many cost cuts and they've pushed the limit now hence the mess GNE and others are in as Arriva and Stagecoach aren't particularly much better. They've just got tons of spares so it's not as noticeable. I wouldn't want to even count how many spares Slatyford have currently, for example.

Watching Trump and Vance's disgraceful performance yesterday, I couldn't help but imagine that this is how I'd view Nigel and Ben at the negotiating table.

(01 Mar 2025, 9:38 pm)Adrian wrote Watching Trump and Vance's disgraceful performance yesterday, I couldn't help but imagine that this is how I'd view Nigel and Ben at the negotiating table.

They were probably taking notes. Ben would be the one hiding behind Nigel, shouting a lot. We paid you last week and you never thanked us!!!!