I know there's already a thread generally on this but thought the Teesside one should probably have it's own thread than been stuck with the TNE bid.

Seen that Darlington in one of their latest council meetings has now released more details on this and the bid is for 62 buses split between Arriva Redcar and Darlington and Stagecoach Stockton.

See: https://democracy.darlington.gov.uk/docu...Report.pdf

There's also been a second document released by the TVCA on upgraded bus stops which has bus improvement corridors shown on maps.

See: https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/about/wp-co...024-fv.pdf

Edit: Someone confirmed it's the 2 at Darlington, 63 at Redcar with the rest at Stagecoach Stockton, left the original post below.

Now putting 1 + 1 together, which isn't always the most reliable by using the corridors on the maps and the depots listed above I have a feeling the bid might include these:

Arriva Darlington
2/2A (6)
X66/X67 (6)

Arriva Redcar
63 (13?)
X4 (8)

Stagecoach Stockton
36/37/38 (15?)
12 (6)

That's just speculating of course, but it would sense and would give a fair balance imo in terms of access across all areas, unlike other bids.

(03 Feb 2024, 12:32 pm)Storx wrote I know there's already a thread generally on this but thought the Teesside one should probably have it's own thread than been stuck with the TNE bid.

Seen that Darlington in one of their latest council meetings has now released more details on this and the bid is for 62 buses split between Arriva Redcar and Darlington and Stagecoach Stockton.

See: https://democracy.darlington.gov.uk/docu...Report.pdf

There's also been a second document released by the TVCA on upgraded bus stops which has bus improvement corridors shown on maps.

See: https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/about/wp-co...024-fv.pdf

Now putting 1 + 1 together, which isn't always the most reliable by using the corridors on the maps and the depots listed above I have a feeling the bid might include these:

Arriva Darlington
2/2A (6)
X66/X67 (6)

Arriva Redcar
63 (13?)
X4 (8)

Stagecoach Stockton
36/37/38 (15?)
12 (6)

That's just speculating of course, but it would sense and would give a fair balance imo in terms of access across all areas, unlike other bids.

I've not looked at the attachments or documents, but I'd be very surprised to see the X4 to be included, just because of the nature of the route and logistics involved. 

The 63 doesn't surprise me at all given the urban nature of the route.

(03 Feb 2024, 12:39 pm)Andreos1 wrote I've not looked at the attachments or documents, but I'd be very surprised to see the X4 to be included, just because of the nature of the route and logistics involved. 

The 63 doesn't surprise me at all given the urban nature of the route.

Aye, the X4 is the one I was more on the fence about adding ngl, but is it much different to the Transdev 36? Both similar length routes, I believe and that can work. Mind it would be a challenge though - agreed. The 36, wouldn't be much better to be fair so maybe there might be some charging infrastruture in Middlesbrough bus station? There's more than enough space.

Mind there's no details on what vehicles they are, Houchen might be still pushing the Hydrogen route for all we know.

The Arriva Zebra 2 bid is Darlington Service 2 and Redcar Service 63. Stagecoach bid is pretty much all of their Stockton depot based services, essentially a full depot bid. All bids are electric, no hydrogen.

(03 Feb 2024, 4:14 pm)RobinHood wrote The Arriva Zebra 2 bid is Darlington Service 2 and Redcar Service 63. Stagecoach bid is pretty much all of their Stockton depot based services, essentially a full depot bid. All bids are electric, no hydrogen.

Surprised they're going for a whole depot bid, the place badly needs investment though mind. Be nice to see some serious electric investment in the North East rather than the placemeal stuff so far though.

Edited the original post to reflect it btw.

It might not be the whole depot, but assuming two thirds of the bid are Stagecoach, its not far off!

(03 Feb 2024, 4:36 pm)RobinHood wrote It might not be the whole depot, but assuming two thirds of the bid are Stagecoach, its not far off!

Edited the post again to make that clearer. 

Assume you only know the Arriva side and put 1 plus 2 together and obviously just linked the rest there. Mind surprised it's only 6 buses at Darlington mind, seems a rather expensive infrastructure job for so little routes but suppose there's not much else there within Tees Valley. The 1, 5 and 7 being the obvious choices but they're cross boundary.

(03 Feb 2024, 4:48 pm)Storx wrote Edited the post again to make that clearer. 

Assume you only know the Arriva side and put 1 plus 2 together and obviously just linked the rest there. Mind surprised it's only 6 buses at Darlington mind, seems a rather expensive infrastructure job for so little routes but suppose there's not much else there within Tees Valley. The 1, 5 and 7 being the obvious choices but they're cross boundary.

6+1 spare for the 2 and 13+1 spare for the 63 = 21 for Arriva. The rest for Stagecoach.

The infrastructure cost is broadly relative to the number of vehicles, except maybe the DNO charges which will be fixed irrespective of the number of connections. If they are successful though, it makes future electric much more attractive and value for money, as the core infrastructure is already in place, you just need additional charge points.

Some services cannot take electric in any form at the moment, as the technology doesn't exist, not without opportunity charging (which is additional cost) or additional spare vehicles to swap over during the day, due to range issues (also, additional cost compared to operating vs conventional diesel). Each operator therefore still needs to be happy that this is a business case they can commit to internally and makes sense, as they are still spending the same amount of money as it would be to buy new diesel, plus 25% towards the infrastructure and difference of the vehicle.

(03 Feb 2024, 5:07 pm)RobinHood wrote 6+1 spare for the 2 and 13+1 spare for the 63 = 21 for Arriva. The rest for Stagecoach.

The infrastructure cost is broadly relative to the number of vehicles, except maybe the DNO charges which will be fixed irrespective of the number of connections. If they are successful though, it makes future electric much more attractive and value for money, as the core infrastructure is already in place, you just need additional charge points.

Some services cannot take electric in any form at the moment, as the technology doesn't exist, not without opportunity charging (which is additional cost) or additional spare vehicles to swap over during the day, due to range issues (also, additional cost compared to operating vs conventional diesel). Each operator therefore still needs to be happy that this is a business case they can commit to internally and makes sense, as they are still spending the same amount of money as it would be to buy new diesel, plus 25% towards the infrastructure and difference of the vehicle.

Sorry thought I replies, aye that's fair then.

Mind it'll be interesting to see if there's ever the tech using battery. For everything that's improved over the years, batteries never really have and nor has the economic of engines etc either. Be a massive pull through, if someone can invest the tech, never mind just for vehicles.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm27j5m1z72o

Houchen pressed on Glider trials on Teesside.

(03 Feb 2025, 3:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm27j5m1z72o

Houchen pressed on Glider trials on Teesside.

How are these any different to the weird looking bendy buses that First used in places like Swansea and York?

(03 Feb 2025, 5:58 pm)deanmachine wrote How are these any different to the weird looking bendy buses that First used in places like Swansea and York?

I'm not sure if the Tees Valley is the same but they're effectively a tram on the road so it's quicker boarding, with limited stops, bus priority and other things.

Without all that they're a white elephant, mind saying that not sure much of Teesside have the density for it to work.

https://www.route-one.net/features/how-b...t-success/

They'd work well on routes like the 39/40 and 62/63 in Newcastle imo if the infrastructure was done aswell.

(03 Feb 2025, 5:58 pm)deanmachine wrote How are these any different to the weird looking bendy buses that First used in places like Swansea and York?

I don't think they're much different to be honest. 
Certainly not from an external perspective. Both look to have been designed for BRT. 

I believe they have different power train options that were different to the Wright buses First used. 

'The bus has the styling and comfort of a tram, with the flexibility and cost of a bus' - description of the Van Hool.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Hool...T_solution 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_StreetCar

(03 Feb 2025, 6:15 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure if the Tees Valley is the same but they're effectively a tram on the road so it's quicker boarding, with limited stops, bus priority and other things.

Without all that they're a white elephant, mind saying that not sure much of Teesside have the density for it to work.

https://www.route-one.net/features/how-b...t-success/

They'd work well on routes like the 39/40 and 62/63 in Newcastle imo if the infrastructure was done aswell.

What about using Tri-Axle Double Deckers on these routes given how busy they can get?

(03 Feb 2024, 5:07 pm)RobinHood wrote 6+1 spare for the 2 and 13+1 spare for the 63 = 21 for Arriva. The rest for Stagecoach.

As detailed in the agenda document for the forthcoming TVCA Transport Committee meeting, the funding for electric vehicles for Redcar depot have now been reallocated to Darlington for town services 3 (Skerne Park), 4 (Minors Crescent), 9 (Springfield), 10 (Whinfield) and 13A/13B (Firth Moor) taking the total number of electrics on order for that depot to 21 (down from the original 22 on order for Arriva). Delivery is expected to be at the end of this year with entry into service in early 2026.

The document also confirms Stagecoach are whole funding a total of 24 electric vehicles for Stockton depot in addition to the 40 part-funded by the TVCA ZEBRA funding.

PUBLIC-Transport-Committee-11-March-2025-Agenda-and-Papers.pdf

(05 Mar 2025, 1:30 pm)Kuyoyo wrote As detailed in the agenda document for the forthcoming TVCA Transport Committee meeting, the funding for electric vehicles for Redcar depot have now been reallocated to Darlington for town services 3 (Skerne Park), 4 (Minors Crescent), 9 (Springfield), 10 (Whinfield) and 13A/13B (Firth Moor) taking the total number of electrics on order for that depot to 21 (down from the original 22 on order for Arriva). Delivery is expected to be at the end of this year with entry into service in early 2026.

The document also confirms Stagecoach are whole funding a total of 24 electric vehicles for Stockton depot in addition to the 40 part-funded by the TVCA ZEBRA funding.

PUBLIC-Transport-Committee-11-March-2025-Agenda-and-Papers.pdf

Assume this is going to see the E200MMC's head South to sort out some of the seriously elderly midibuses in other parts of Arriva, especially in the South East?

Also of note to the eagle eyes, Page 125 of that report suggests how existing BSIP funding is to be spent for this year.

It makes reference to support for three additional services that would otherwise have been fully withdrawn from May. Short term support with procurement to follow.

I am reliably told that the three mystery services planned for complete commercial withdrawal are SCNE Services 13, 35 and 39.

This is confirmed in the table shown on page 126.

TVCA are funding short term (£148k), with £1.5m set aside for the procurement through to March 26...........

(05 Mar 2025, 9:36 pm)Superman wrote Also of note to the eagle eyes, Page 125 of that report suggests how existing BSIP funding is to be spent for this year.

It makes reference to support for three additional services that would otherwise have been fully withdrawn from May. Short term support with procurement to follow.

I am reliably told that the three mystery services planned for complete commercial withdrawal are SCNE Services 13, 35 and 39.

This is confirmed in the table shown on page 126.

TVCA are funding short term (£148k), with £1.5m set aside for the procurement through to March 26...........

The 39 seems a bit of a bizarre one mind.

It's the most frequent Stagecoach service (ignoring combined routes) in the whole of Teesside, including a 20 minute Sunday service. It seems a bit radical to just scrap the entire thing overnight.

(05 Mar 2025, 10:43 pm)Storx wrote The 39 seems a bit of a bizarre one mind.

It's the most frequent Stagecoach service (ignoring combined routes) in the whole of Teesside, including a 20 minute Sunday service. It seems a bit radical to just scrap the entire thing overnight.

The services receiving funding have received funding for a while - 39 early morning journeys and evening journeys

13B school service + early AM journeys M-Sat

35 Sunday service + First 2 inbound journeys M-S

(08 Mar 2025, 8:24 pm)Teessider2014 wrote The services receiving funding have received funding for a while - 39 early morning journeys and evening journeys

13B school service + early AM journeys M-Sat

35 Sunday service + First 2 inbound journeys M-S

Yeah not surprised at the 13 and 35 tbh, been mentioned quite a bit on here how they're struggling a bit.

Must be doing really bad the 39 though, thought they might have dropped it down to every 30 minutes and binned the Sunday service or what not first. Really unusual for someone to bin off a frequent service overnight, in fact the only other one I can think of is the Arriva 46 in Gosforth.

Be interesting to see if there's any other similar cuts elsewhere, in the future, as South Shields and Sunderland are still pretty much running pre COVID routes and there's some rather questionable routes up there, the 18 in particular.

(08 Mar 2025, 8:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah not surprised at the 13 and 35 tbh, been mentioned quite a bit on here how they're struggling a bit.

Must be doing really bad the 39 though, thought they might have dropped it down to every 30 minutes and binned the Sunday service or what not first. Really unusual for someone to bin off a frequent service overnight, in fact the only other one I can think of is the Arriva 46 in Gosforth.

Be interesting to see if there's any other similar cuts elsewhere, in the future, as South Shields and Sunderland are still pretty much running pre COVID routes and there's some rather questionable routes up there, the 18 in particular.

Having asked the question of higher up when I seen the document none of these services where at risk of being binned - the 39 wouldn’t be binned as it does take a hefty wedge of cash, the frequent service from 0512 in the morning would likely be altered - apparently more resource is being put into it on an evening which the council have paid towards as the current timetable is impossible - not helped by the amount of traffic calming and blanket 20MPH around most of the route imposed by Mbro Council!

(08 Mar 2025, 8:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah not surprised at the 13 and 35 tbh, been mentioned quite a bit on here how they're struggling a bit.

Must be doing really bad the 39 though, thought they might have dropped it down to every 30 minutes and binned the Sunday service or what not first. Really unusual for someone to bin off a frequent service overnight, in fact the only other one I can think of is the Arriva 46 in Gosforth.

Be interesting to see if there's any other similar cuts elsewhere, in the future, as South Shields and Sunderland are still pretty much running pre COVID routes and there's some rather questionable routes up there, the 18 in particular.

Can’t see the Sunderland 18 being binned off. It links areas to the Hospital for one thing.

(08 Mar 2025, 8:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah not surprised at the 13 and 35 tbh, been mentioned quite a bit on here how they're struggling a bit.

Must be doing really bad the 39 though, thought they might have dropped it down to every 30 minutes and binned the Sunday service or what not first. Really unusual for someone to bin off a frequent service overnight, in fact the only other one I can think of is the Arriva 46 in Gosforth.

Be interesting to see if there's any other similar cuts elsewhere, in the future, as South Shields and Sunderland are still pretty much running pre COVID routes and there's some rather questionable routes up there, the 18 in particular.

Which routes were you thinking?


I've said it over and over the 18 literally crosses most other routes, only a couple of sections will lose a service, such as the bus stops at the South end of the Queen Alex Bridge... wouldn't miss it, if it was took off.


99 is a pointless route too, no idea why NEXUS are still funding it.

(08 Mar 2025, 9:01 pm)Teessider2014 wrote Having asked the question of higher up when I seen the document none of these services where at risk of being binned - the 39 wouldn’t be binned as it does take a hefty wedge of cash, the frequent service from 0512 in the morning would likely be altered - apparently more resource is being put into it on an evening which the council have paid towards as the current timetable is impossible - not helped by the amount of traffic calming and blanket 20MPH around most of the route imposed by Mbro Council!

Yeah that would make sense then, guess whoever made the OP, misread it with the fully withdrawn comment. Did think it would be a rather big move to get rid of it altogether, unless there was some other motive behind it.

(08 Mar 2025, 9:04 pm)Economic505 wrote Can’t see the Sunderland 18 being binned off. It links areas to the Hospital for one thing.

I'm not too sure you know, operators don't care about links as shown by cuts over the years. The 6/7 to the Freeman just to pick one North of the Tyne years ago.

(08 Mar 2025, 9:05 pm)Michael wrote Which routes were you thinking?


I've said it over and over the 18 literally crosses most other routes, only a couple of sections will lose a service, such as the bus stops at the South end of the Queen Alex Bridge... wouldn't miss it, if it was took off.


99 is a pointless route too, no idea why NEXUS are still funding it.

Looks like the OP was a mistake so would be more surprised now but was thinking the 8 and 18 in Sunderland and X20 and 30 in South Shields. All 4 of them have been on life support, pretty much, for years now.

Mind the X63 North of the Tyne isn't healthy outside of peaks either, quite often see it and it's down to low single numbers, seems like most the Quorum workers have moved to the X7/X8 in recent times which aren't too healthy either because of the Northumberland Line (but that's another thread).