(16 Sep 2025, 10:48 am)Retro Nero wrote Tried looking up City Transport on bus times, can't find them, anyone know what to type in thanks

https://bustimes.org/operators/city-transport

(16 Sep 2025, 12:07 pm)Arriva7446 wrote https://bustimes.org/operators/city-transport

Thank you ??

5901 (BK10 MFZ) has had it's Repaint/Sunderland Connect Wrap completed. still looks awful.

Front - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ateposted/
Rear - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ateposted/

A note from today was the driver of 5901 overtook the driver of 11103 with the latter's 701 operating 30+ minutes late, not sure how this is possible as the didn't seem to be any issues traffic wise in Sunderland this afternoon nor any issues with the 11103, does make you wonder if the vehicle type in question struggling with the navigations of the route between Royal Hospital and Sunderland University.

have you got a timeframe for me to investigate and look at the bustimes data ?

(23 Sep 2025, 8:02 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote have you got a timeframe for me to investigate and look at the bustimes data ?

I photographed both on Dame Dorothy Street, 5901 at 13:44 then 11103 at 13:47 from viewing my Exif Data. 

30 mins late was excessive, approx 20 late was 11103.

Looking at 701 service alone at touchdown Hylton road Candlish Road  for today....
It's important to use a single stretch as opposed to a dual stretch to monitor data due to Bustimes deleting and replacing data but as it only goes one way it is better to measure Hylton Road John Candlish Road as a point... 
Schedule 1217  actual 1223 (6m late)
Schedule 1247 actual 1330 (43m late)
Schedule 1347 actual 1401 (21m late)
Schedule 1417 actual 1435. (18m late)
Schedule 1447 actual 1453 ( 6m late)
Schedule 1532 actual 1545 (15m late)
Schedule 1602 actual 1625 (25m late) 
Looking at this and the time of year I am gonna defend City Travel - I do not think they are struggling 
IT IS Fresher month for students so increased loadings until they understand other travel patterns and remember every person asking do you go here can add 20seconds per loading per passenger at least but Looking at the points 
there is good layover to get the service back in order 
I think it is down to passenger loadings as opposed to bus issues when you look closely at the data

The real equivalency would be to compare previous operators timings in freshers week

Not sure 43m and 25m are explainable by passenger loadings. It’s not the 90s, students use citymapper, Apple Maps etc etc , they know where they’re going before they get on a bus. 20 years ago that’s an excuse. Even the 21 doesn’t run that late on match days!

(23 Sep 2025, 8:23 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Looking at 701 service alone at touchdown Hylton road Candlish Road  for today....
It's important to use a single stretch as opposed to a dual stretch to monitor data due to Bustimes deleting and replacing data but as it only goes one way it is better to measure Hylton Road John Candlish Road as a point... 
Schedule 1217  actual 1223 (6m late)
Schedule 1247 actual 1330 (43m late)
Schedule 1347 actual 1401 (21m late)
Schedule 1417 actual 1435. (18m late)
Schedule 1447 actual 1453 ( 6m late)
Schedule 1532 actual 1545 (15m late)
Schedule 1602 actual 1625 (25m late) 
Looking at this and the time of year I am gonna defend City Travel - I do not think they are struggling 
IT IS Fresher month for students so increased loadings until they understand other travel patterns and remember every person asking do you go here can add 20seconds per loading per passenger at least but Looking at the points 
there is good layover to get the service back in order 
I think it is down to passenger loadings as opposed to bus issues when you look closely at the data

From what I can see at least from looking at bustimes, trips were generally running in the region of 10-15 mins late for the most part with the odd one racking up a bit more. Don't believe any were in the region of 40+ mins late, from what I can see, the trip wasn't changed on the ticket machine on some journeys, so it would show as 43 mins late rather than in the region of 10-15 mins as it will show the more recent ping which would be the second round trip when the machine should've been changed.

As to why it was delayed, no idea, can only assume the usual caveats: traffic, passenger loadings, the timetable being a bit tight to stick to, maybe?

(23 Sep 2025, 7:39 pm)Malarkey wrote 5901 (BK10 MFZ) has had it's Repaint/Sunderland Connect Wrap completed. still looks awful.

Front - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ateposted/
Rear - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ateposted/

A note from today was the driver of 5901 overtook the driver of 11103 with the latter's 701 operating 30+ minutes late, not sure how this is possible as the didn't seem to be any issues traffic wise in Sunderland this afternoon nor any issues with the 11103, does make you wonder if the vehicle type in question struggling with the navigations of the route between Royal Hospital and Sunderland University.

I don't think it's that bad, they've tidied it up and made it look presentable as the brand is contacted with the service.

(23 Sep 2025, 8:07 pm)Malarkey wrote I photographed both on Dame Dorothy Street, 5901 at 13:44 then 11103 at 13:47 from viewing my Exif Data. 

30 mins late was excessive, approx 20 late was 11103.

(23 Sep 2025, 8:23 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote ....
Looking at this and the time of year I am gonna defend City Travel - I do not think they are struggling 
IT IS Fresher month for students so increased loadings until they understand other travel patterns and remember every person asking do you go here can add 20seconds per loading per passenger at least but Looking at the points 
there is good layover to get the service back in order 
I think it is down to passenger loadings as opposed to bus issues when you look closely at the data

People seem to have a short memory, or in fact do not travel on these routes at all - and I think just wanting to find a reason to get at City Transport. 

When GNE ran this service for well over a decade and a half, it mostly kept it's timings when it was the 700/701 when they dropped the 701 and it became the 702 it still was generally on time. Then nexus reinstated the 701 but on a separate contract to the 700/702 and JH coaches had this and only ran on the morning peaks to help with loadings. At this point the 700/702 all went via Park Lane in both directions and had decent loadings too with a PVR of 3.

In September 2023, the solos were moved on and Nexus changed the contract scrapping the 702 and curtailing the 700 to just Park Lane, therefore upgrading the 701 to the main service with Double Deckers (6160 & 6161). This timetable change was awful because the routes were now circulars starting/finishing from St Peters Campus. They only had 5 minutes layover for the full route. And this was the worse reliability the service has ever had due to Nexus desperate to have them both do their full routes in 25 mins. But due to crossing the Wear, city centre, the hospital, Hylton Road & St Marks Rd all bottlenecks - makes 5 mins layover laughable. The worse part is the turn from St Michael's Way (outside the Travelodge) onto Chester Rd as the traffic lights only let through 2 cars at a time.

GNEs 6160 & 6161 were awful buses, constantly breaking down, leaking in the rain and drivers were downright rude to the students travelling. 

The 701 was consistently last year late by 25+ mins and the year before. So expect delays not because of City Transport, or peoples excuses of the time of year because the boarding/alighting from experience is actually quicker than a single board decker but because of Nexus's timetabling being determined to make it a PVR of 3. And actually with the butchering of the 700 as a usable service to anywhere people are trending to get the 701 and walking meaning from my own experience loadings are down considerably on the 700. 


Notably there is also a student minibus that goes to the campuses and accommodations that conventional buses can't access such as the Forge in Pallion and Scotia Quay/Panns Bank on the nearside. This bus comes at a 35 minute frequency (albeit 15 mins in the morning)  and is only ran by the university and this bus also suffers huge delays but this one due to only stopping at the 5 stops can go any route making it easier to catch up it's time.

Noticed a City bendy bus filling up at Washington Services last night. 

That can't be cheap to fill. Especially with the prices charged there!

(24 Sep 2025, 1:37 pm)logidoodah wrote I don't think it's that bad, they've tidied it up and made it look presentable as the brand is contacted with the service.



People seem to have a short memory, or in fact do not travel on these routes at all - and I think just wanting to find a reason to get at City Transport. 

When GNE ran this service for well over a decade and a half, it mostly kept it's timings when it was the 700/701 when they dropped the 701 and it became the 702 it still was generally on time. Then nexus reinstated the 701 but on a separate contract to the 700/702 and JH coaches had this and only ran on the morning peaks to help with loadings. At this point the 700/702 all went via Park Lane in both directions and had decent loadings too with a PVR of 3.

In September 2023, the solos were moved on and Nexus changed the contract scrapping the 702 and curtailing the 700 to just Park Lane, therefore upgrading the 701 to the main service with Double Deckers (6160 & 6161). This timetable change was awful because the routes were now circulars starting/finishing from St Peters Campus. They only had 5 minutes layover for the full route. And this was the worse reliability the service has ever had due to Nexus desperate to have them both do their full routes in 25 mins. But due to crossing the Wear, city centre, the hospital, Hylton Road & St Marks Rd all bottlenecks - makes 5 mins layover laughable. The worse part is the turn from St Michael's Way (outside the Travelodge) onto Chester Rd as the traffic lights only let through 2 cars at a time.

GNEs 6160 & 6161 were awful buses, constantly breaking down, leaking in the rain and drivers were downright rude to the students travelling. 

The 701 was consistently last year late by 25+ mins and the year before. So expect delays not because of City Transport, or peoples excuses of the time of year because the boarding/alighting from experience is actually quicker than a single board decker but because of Nexus's timetabling being determined to make it a PVR of 3. And actually with the butchering of the 700 as a usable service to anywhere people are trending to get the 701 and walking meaning from my own experience loadings are down considerably on the 700. 


Notably there is also a student minibus that goes to the campuses and accommodations that conventional buses can't access such as the Forge in Pallion and Scotia Quay/Panns Bank on the nearside. This bus comes at a 35 minute frequency (albeit 15 mins in the morning)  and is only ran by the university and this bus also suffers huge delays but this one due to only stopping at the 5 stops can go any route making it easier to catch up it's time.

(24 Sep 2025, 4:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote Noticed a City bendy bus filling up at Washington Services last night. 

That can't be cheap to fill. Especially with the prices charged there!

Between the contract bid, the extortionate price it costs to fill up at Washington Services, and the reportedly low MPG from the bendy, something doesn't seem to add up.

(24 Sep 2025, 6:22 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Between the contract bid, the extortionate price it costs to fill up at Washington Services, and the reportedly low MPG from the bendy, something doesn't seem to add up.

I’m sure they’ll be on fuel cards and won’t be paying the pump price but even so…

Also, sounds typically like trying to do far too much with not enough resource to keep the contract as cheap as possible. Not City’s problem if the supplied timetable isn’t feasible.

(24 Sep 2025, 6:22 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Between the contract bid, the extortionate price it costs to fill up at Washington Services, and the reportedly low MPG from the bendy, something doesn't seem to add up.

I heard from a person who was chatting to a driver last week that City have bought new buses for the route and "were on the ferry as we speak, but don't tell anyone" I am hesitant to believe such a claim as where does a small and fairly new independent get such money from, why would it be a secret and why would they go to the effort of branding 3 buses for the Sunderland Connect (PVR = 3) contract.

(25 Sep 2025, 2:30 pm)logidoodah wrote I heard from a person who was chatting to a driver last week that City have bought new buses for the route and "were on the ferry as we speak, but don't tell anyone" I am hesitant to believe such a claim as where does a small and fairly new independent get such money from, why would it be a secret and why would they go to the effort of branding 3 buses for the Sunderland Connect (PVR = 3) contract.

Not outside the realms of possibility, look at Gateshead Central (although their fleet is mainly leased to my knowledge but happy to be corrected). GNE also bought vehicles specifically for the route including the hybrid Solos (granted these were purchased rather than leased as far as I'm aware) and these saw little use on anything other than the Sunderland Connect services and disposed of soon after being replaced on the service. Does the contract have an age limit on vehicles or just minimum seats and euro rating?

With regards to filling up at Washington Services, Whitestar seem to favour the BP on Wessington Way, Sunderland. Is it so unusual for an independent company to use normal fuel stations? I seem to recall A Line using the filling station on the Felling By Pass too.

(25 Sep 2025, 3:04 pm)morritt89 wrote Not outside the realms of possibility, look at Gateshead Central (although their fleet is mainly leased to my knowledge but happy to be corrected). GNE also bought vehicles specifically for the route including the hybrid Solos (granted these were purchased rather than leased as far as I'm aware) and these saw little use on anything other than the Sunderland Connect services and disposed of soon after being replaced on the service. Does the contract have an age limit on vehicles or just minimum seats and euro rating?

With regards to filling up at Washington Services, Whitestar seem to favour the BP on Wessington Way, Sunderland. Is it so unusual for an independent company to use normal fuel stations? I seem to recall A Line using the filling station on the Felling By Pass too.

GNE in east Durham used to fill up there solos at the petrol station on the a19.

JHM travel used to fill there coach up at Gateshead petrol station on there last journey going into Newcastle before doing there last journey of the day from Newcastle while doing the x90.

I’m sure George bell travel used to use the petrol station on pallion new Road to fill the minibuses?

Loads of bus independants used petrol stations in the 80’s before there got bought out and ran off the road


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(25 Sep 2025, 5:06 pm)cbma06 wrote GNE in east Durham used to fill up there solos at the petrol station on the a19.

JHM travel used to fill there coach up at Gateshead  petrol station on there last journey going into Newcastle before doing there last journey of the day from Newcastle while doing the x90.

I’m sure George bell travel used to use the petrol station on pallion new Road to fill the minibuses?

Loads of bus independants used petrol stations in the 80’s before there got bought out and ran off the road

It's certainly not unheard of, I remember catching the Transpora North West service 26 in Blackpool once and the bus pulled into a garage for fuel part way through the journey, Scarlet Band often refuelled the buses on its Teesdale services in the few minutes layover between trips on service 85 at Morrisons in Bishop Auckland.

It's not just independents either, much of Go-Ahead's 'Go Cornwall Bus' operation uses petrol stations to fuel up, either between journeys on services or at the end of the day

(25 Sep 2025, 2:30 pm)logidoodah wrote I heard from a person who was chatting to a driver last week that City have bought new buses for the route and "were on the ferry as we speak, but don't tell anyone" I am hesitant to believe such a claim as where does a small and fairly new independent get such money from, why would it be a secret and why would they go to the effort of branding 3 buses for the Sunderland Connect (PVR = 3) contract.

I have it on good authority that the West Pyongyang Northern General Omnibus Company have loaned three vehicles to an undisclosed bus operator in the North East of England.

Although I have been unable to discover to whom these recently built, high -spec examples of supreme North Korean engineering are being sent, the Pyongyang rumour mill suggests it a university city with a dedicated bus service for students.

Of course, it is not for me to put two and two together and come up with five (only our great and glorious leaver has that authority), but there is enough coincidental information present to draw your own conclusions on the matter.

(25 Sep 2025, 2:30 pm)logidoodah wrote I heard from a person who was chatting to a driver last week that City have bought new buses for the route and "were on the ferry as we speak, but don't tell anyone" I am hesitant to believe such a claim as where does a small and fairly new independent get such money from, why would it be a secret and why would they go to the effort of branding 3 buses for the Sunderland Connect (PVR = 3) contract.

Could be leased for length of contracts.

(25 Sep 2025, 3:04 pm)morritt89 wrote Not outside the realms of possibility, look at Gateshead Central (although their fleet is mainly leased to my knowledge but happy to be corrected). GNE also bought vehicles specifically for the route including the hybrid Solos (granted these were purchased rather than leased as far as I'm aware) and these saw little use on anything other than the Sunderland Connect services and disposed of soon after being replaced on the service. Does the contract have an age limit on vehicles or just minimum seats and euro rating?

With regards to filling up at Washington Services, Whitestar seem to favour the BP on Wessington Way, Sunderland. Is it so unusual for an independent company to use normal fuel stations? I seem to recall A Line using the filling station on the Felling By Pass too.

The only thing that makes me question it is the 'ferry' part.

Is there any deckers which aren't electric which will can come off a ferry? I can only really think of Wright / ADL with products on sale right now and they're all British (acknowledge Wright is NI but I can't imagine they'll be on a boat for long)

Other than Evora's I'm struggling a bit with singles aswell but they don't fit the tender criteria I don't believe.

MCV EvoSetis are built in Egypt, shipped over to the UK and taking to MCVs facility in Cambridgeshire for PDI and onward delivery.

(23 Sep 2025, 8:36 pm)Ambassador wrote The real equivalency would be to compare previous operators timings in freshers week

Not sure 43m and 25m are explainable by passenger loadings. It’s not the 90s, students use citymapper, Apple Maps etc etc , they know where they’re going before they get on a bus. 20 years ago that’s an excuse. Even the 21 doesn’t run that late on match days!

My exact thinking, how on earth did gain another 37 minutes onto its lateness

(26 Sep 2025, 11:33 pm)Rapidsnap wrote MCV EvoSetis are built in Egypt, shipped over to the UK and taking to MCVs facility in Cambridgeshire for PDI and onward delivery.

Don't think you can get them anymore unless you go for the tri axle version which I highly doubt, can you? I'm sure the B5TL, has been discontinued now.

(28 Sep 2025, 1:42 pm)V514DFT wrote My exact thinking, how on earth did gain another 37 minutes onto its 

It may be worth sampling the service at rush hour to discover why it runs so late.
Multiple issues being the tight timetable anyways at any time of day.

Adding on to that the traffic light patterns means that multiple junctions only allow 1/2 cars at a time.

Ontop of that general congestion can cause delays onto the service. One of them causing all day issues being the council deciding to close lanes both sides of St Mary's boulevard to do gardening causing significant congestion.

Multiple factors can cause delays to services which the company has absolutely no control over. Some of these things would be good to take into account before making throw away comments.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BHL48EU7b/

Whoops!

(01 Oct 2025, 9:06 am)Andreos1 wrote https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BHL48EU7b/

Whoops!

The comments just show how inept some people are... 

(01 Oct 2025, 1:44 pm)logidoodah wrote The comments just show how inept some people are... 

Could explain the 37 min delays though. 

Theres one bloke on there, saying he was the driver of the Merc and has subsequently been sacked for apparently taking the wrong angle.

(01 Oct 2025, 2:55 pm)Andreos1 wrote Could explain the 37 min delays though. 

Theres one bloke on there, saying he was the driver of the Merc and has subsequently been sacked for apparently taking the wrong angle.

That sounds quite obtuse to me.

Fairly regular occurance when GNE allocated full size singles to the 700 to be honest. Roker beach was the same. I can recall a Versa being beached on the roundabout at Roker due to parked cars.

I spotted this sticker in a local bar recently, not sure it's wise marketing by City https://ibb.co/GQfhQB5W