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Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes

Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes

RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(02 Feb 2025, 7:54 pm)Storx wrote Space is the bigger problem and buses servives which are 10 minutes+ have no benefits serving one anyway. It just clogs up stands since the people wanting to use the services won't be waiting anyway for more than 5 minutes anyway.
But say those people which are on that 10 min service say the 22 might be coming off the 10 from Prudhoe or the 10B Rockwood Hills, yes they might only have a 5-10 min wait, but atleast it would be comferable, but lets face it most people wont be just waiting 5 mins especially with frequencies these days. 

But say coming home you just miss the 10B and youve got a 35 min wait, if everything in one place you can grab a coffee and just wait
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(02 Feb 2025, 8:28 pm)Unber43 wrote But say those people which are on that 10 min service say the 22 might be coming off the 10 from Prudhoe or the 10B Rockwood Hills, yes they might only have a 5-10 min wait, but atleast it would be comferable, but lets face it most people wont be just waiting 5 mins especially with frequencies these days. 

But say coming home you just miss the 10B and youve got a 35 min wait, if everything in one place you can grab a coffee and just wait

There's a fair few services still like

1 (SNE), 12 (SNE), 21, 22 (SNE), 30/31/36, 37/38, 39/40, 62/63 - Just to pick a few.

Don't disagree though, the frequent buses just need to be nearby the bus station so it's a quick change that's all.

Btw the 10/10A/10B are three different routes imo and should be numbered seperately aswell but that's another thread. An A should be used where the route does a slight deviation mid route ie. one one going via one village and the other another village which combine back together with the same terminus for all.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
Lord knows where this sits but as part of the soon to open Pilgrim St HM Govt office works, the old bus stop at the bottom of John Dobson street has been restored which will allow GNE services to set down essentially in the place they used to pre the works starting and hopefully reduce the snarl up at the Flix Bus stop
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(08 Oct 2025, 9:34 pm)Ambassador wrote Lord knows where this sits but as part of the soon to open Pilgrim St HM Govt office works, the old bus stop at the bottom of John Dobson street has been restored which will allow GNE services to set down essentially in the place they used to pre the works starting and hopefully reduce the snarl up at the Flix Bus stop

Looks like Nexus are on the case: https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/nexus...ffice-move

I did particularly like the line "Bus operators Go North East, Arriva and Stagecoach, Northern Rail and Metro operator Nexus will use the intelligence gathered to plan suitable services and surrounding support." - I suppose there's a first for everything!

Most of the workers will be on a 60% hybrid arrangement, weighed towards office-based, so this is a massive increase in footfall that will be in that part of the City on a daily basis. This is really going to take some radical thinking by our standards in the North East, and I think re-routing some of the South Tyne traffic out of Newcastle has to form part of that.
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RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
Appreciate this may come under service suggestion and It will obviously depend on where there is a critical mass of people, but I'd like to see Lothian Buses style peak X express services mirroring the main routes as part of the solution. Although they'd probably be oversubscribed!

Something like a 56X from the estates of Washington (not the Galleries) and fast to Newcastle, a 10X from Crawcrook, avoiding Blaydon and fast via Scotswood Road or 27X from Lukes Lane, Monkton Lane and Pelaw then fast to Newcastle. Places unconnected with the Metro where the standard bus route takes way too long to be attractive.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(15 Oct 2025, 8:16 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Appreciate this may come under service suggestion and It will obviously depend on where there is a critical mass of people, but I'd like to see Lothian Buses style peak X express services mirroring the main routes as part of the solution. Although they'd probably be oversubscribed!

Something like a 56X from the estates of Washington (not the Galleries) and fast to Newcastle, a 10X from Crawcrook, avoiding Blaydon and fast via Scotswood Road or 27X from Lukes Lane, Monkton Lane and Pelaw then fast to Newcastle. Places unconnected with the Metro where the standard bus route takes way too long to be attractive.

That is exactly the style of service we have in my new home near Brisbane. The operator I work for have several local routes during the daytime and at peaks we run exactly the same route then express to the city and they do prove popular. There is a huge commuter flow towards the city of Brisbane though! So much so that off peak is very quiet as everyone is at work in the city…

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RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(15 Oct 2025, 8:16 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Appreciate this may come under service suggestion and It will obviously depend on where there is a critical mass of people, but I'd like to see Lothian Buses style peak X express services mirroring the main routes as part of the solution. Although they'd probably be oversubscribed!

Something like a 56X from the estates of Washington (not the Galleries) and fast to Newcastle, a 10X from Crawcrook, avoiding Blaydon and fast via Scotswood Road or 27X from Lukes Lane, Monkton Lane and Pelaw then fast to Newcastle. Places unconnected with the Metro where the standard bus route takes way too long to be attractive.

You need a local authority who is willing to prioritise bus over private car too, providing buses a clear and direct passage into the city centre.

Newcastle are not that local authority.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(15 Oct 2025, 8:16 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Appreciate this may come under service suggestion and It will obviously depend on where there is a critical mass of people, but I'd like to see Lothian Buses style peak X express services mirroring the main routes as part of the solution. Although they'd probably be oversubscribed!

Something like a 56X from the estates of Washington (not the Galleries) and fast to Newcastle, a 10X from Crawcrook, avoiding Blaydon and fast via Scotswood Road or 27X from Lukes Lane, Monkton Lane and Pelaw then fast to Newcastle. Places unconnected with the Metro where the standard bus route takes way too long to be attractive.

(Yesterday, 2:39 am)tyresmoke wrote That is exactly the style of service we have in my new home near Brisbane. The operator I work for have several local routes during the daytime and at peaks we run exactly the same route then express to the city and they do prove popular. There is a huge commuter flow towards the city of Brisbane though! So much so that off peak is very quiet as everyone is at work in the city…

It'll be interesting to see when the peak would be for the new government hub in Newcastle. Most of the staff will probably be on flexi time, my office has that and people drift in any time between 7-10am and leave any time between 3.30-7pm. It could be hard to judge when that peak will come from there.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
imo it'll be interesting to see if there's actually any change on the likes of 10/21/27 etc.

On paper there in theory shouldn't be, as you can't get a parking space if you live within a certain distance to the current ministry anyway and I'd imagine both these routes will be covered by it so people will already be commuting anyway but changing at Gateshead, or elsewhere.

You have to remember, these aren't new jobs.

The longer distance services are where the issues could be imo, especially those ex Stockton and Peterlee/Easington etc. The transport down those neck of the woods to Newcastle is generally piss poor and an hourly double decker for Peterlee isn't going to cope.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
All Operators/modes are going to need to do something. You can't dump up thousands of people a day in to the transport network without it breaking.

Metro is at capacity without significant investment. I'm not sure where the additional DMU trains are for Northern. The short and medium solution has to be bus. Be that enhanced frequencies, Park and Ride. Express buses or a mix of all three.

Local authorities will have to step up as well - I just hope the "active" travel merchants that riddle these organisations are shot in to the sun with regards this issue. The last thing needed is even further reduced road space for mass people movers (buses) on the approaches to the city. I know three people that are going to be moving in, and they ain't getting on a bike!
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(9 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote All Operators/modes are going to need to do something. You can't dump up thousands of people a day in to the transport network without it breaking.

Metro is at capacity without significant investment. I'm not sure where the additional DMU trains are for Northern. The short and medium solution has to be bus. Be that enhanced frequencies, Park and Ride. Express buses or a mix of all three.

Local authorities will have to step up as well - I just hope the "active" travel merchants that riddle these organisations are shot in to the sun with regards this issue. The last thing needed is even further reduced road space for mass people movers (buses) on the approaches to the city. I know three people that are going to be moving in, and they ain't getting on a bike!

Absolutely agreed that buses are the easiest solution to this, both short term and likely longer term too. 

I feel like better bus prioritisation is one of the easiest, and cheapest, ways to improve current bus services and open up corridors to extra services. Traffic light priority (even a change of sequences would do), extended bus lanes, and even creation of BRT lanes would all help and would be cheap solutions in comparison to Metro extensions etc. 

I also think, generally, there needs to be a shift of mind from people to be more open to using the bus. My bus to work gets delayed almost constantly by 10-15 minutes Monday to Thursday, yet on a Friday where evidently people are WFH/non-working it sails through and gets to destination early. The bus takes 30+ people every day, yet all of those people are delayed because of cars containing 1 person. The route is well connected to other buses/Metro, starts next to a car park with a minimal fee, and serves two huge employment sites (with another at the end I get on).
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(8 hours ago)PH - BQA wrote Absolutely agreed that buses are the easiest solution to this, both short term and likely longer term too. 

I feel like better bus prioritisation is one of the easiest, and cheapest, ways to improve current bus services and open up corridors to extra services. Traffic light priority (even a change of sequences would do), extended bus lanes, and even creation of BRT lanes would all help and would be cheap solutions in comparison to Metro extensions etc. 

I also think, generally, there needs to be a shift of mind from people to be more open to using the bus. My bus to work gets delayed almost constantly by 10-15 minutes Monday to Thursday, yet on a Friday where evidently people are WFH/non-working it sails through and gets to destination early. The bus takes 30+ people every day, yet all of those people are delayed because of cars containing 1 person. The route is well connected to other buses/Metro, starts next to a car park with a minimal fee, and serves two huge employment sites (with another at the end I get on).

You'll never convert people to bus users, because of the simple fact it's a bus.

Unless it runs direct, people aren't going to be sitting on there going around the houses and if it doesn't go round the houses then it has no people. P&R at Rail and Metro sites are the long term answer for this imo.

You just have to look at how well the stations on the Northumberland Line are doing for that and Callerton Parkway on the Metro is also always well used. 

Sadly there's not really any sensible P&R South of the Tyne as by the time you get to the Metrocentre and/or Heworth you're past most the traffic and might aswell do the rest of it. Similar discussion at Regent Centre, Four Lane Ends and Northumberland Park which are generally pretty poorly used. The last which has been shut for months now.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(7 hours ago)Storx wrote Sadly there's not really any sensible P&R South of the Tyne as by the time you get to the Metrocentre and/or Heworth you're past most the traffic and might aswell do the rest of it. Similar discussion at Regent Centre, Four Lane Ends and Northumberland Park which are generally pretty poorly used. The last which has been shut for months now.

I've said this before, but, instead of all the humming and harring about building a P&R site at Eighton Lodge, Follingsby Park offers a better solution, in my opinion. 

Irrespective of whether the Leamside Line or the Wearside Loop are ever constructed in full, a relatively short spur from Pelaw utilising either heavy or light rail (heavy rail would be probably easier and cheaper as it's still sort of connected to the network although heavily mothballed) could easily service the site with shuttles into Newcastle. 

The space is there and it's easily accessible from the south via the A194(M), and could also be useful for Washington and the A182 corridor. If the road between Nissan and Follingsby is ever upgraded, it could also service traffic coming from the A19 too. 

None of the above is really achievable with the Eighton Lodge site. Any railway station near Lamesley or Team Valley would be still be quite a distance away from where the P&R site is earmarked to be, and even if the buses manage to navigate a traffic-free route along Durham Road, through Gateshead, and across the Tyne, it's still probably a 20 minute journey.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(6 hours ago)MurdnunoC wrote I've said this before, but, instead of all the humming and harring about building a P&R site at Eighton Lodge, Follingsby Park offers a better solution, in my opinion. 

Irrespective of whether the Leamside Line or the Wearside Loop are ever constructed in full, a relatively short spur from Pelaw utilising either heavy or light rail (heavy rail would be probably easier and cheaper as it's still sort of connected to the network although heavily mothballed) could easily service the site with shuttles into Newcastle. 

The space is there and it's easily accessible from the south via the A194(M), and could also be useful for Washington and the A182 corridor. If the road between Nissan and Follingsby is ever upgraded, it could also service traffic coming from the A19 too. 

None of the above is really achievable with the Eighton Lodge site. Any railway station near Lamesley or Team Valley would be still be quite a distance away from where the P&R site is earmarked to be, and even if the buses manage to navigate a traffic-free route along Durham Road, through Gateshead, and across the Tyne, it's still probably a 20 minute journey.

Honestly I totally agree, to be honest, always thought it was the best site aswell and like you said wouldn't cost a billion pound to build either. 

It's really easy to get to from the A1 aswell, avoiding all the traffic and would be a good terminus point but I don't want to make many suggestions as I know there's serious capacity issues in central station but that said even buses from there would be neglible to Eighton Banks and could be utilised for the 56X and other Washington services people are talking about.  

Eighton Banks will be as successful as the Great Park imo and we all know how that went... 

Mind talking about the Metro, I always think it should be 2 phases with the first priority of getting it to Concord which is pretty piss easy as there's one one level crossing which could easily be barriers, at Follingsby itself. 

The Concord to Sunderland bit can come later (or never because it wouldn't be the end of the world). It's better to have something that nothing imo.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
well the problem when the did the park and ride study Grangetown/ leeechmere was explored and Lidl bought the site instead and built a bigger Lidl and used the carpark! This was going to be to get people to Newcastle Fast (either Metro or Regional Rail)
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(5 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote well the problem when the did the park and ride study Grangetown/ leeechmere was explored  and Lidl bought the site instead and built a  bigger Lidl and used the carpark!  This was going to be to get people to Newcastle Fast (either Metro or Regional Rail)

Never knew about that one, would've been a good site though to be honest.

Mind speaking of bus P&R, the only place I think would be really work is a double one at Team Valley at both ends (if you can get the Northern land) like so:


imo it covers a much wider area than the Eighton Banks one at the next junction, but the massive bonus of this is there's a potential of a counter flow for the express services of workers heading towards Team Valley. It's how a few of the York P&R routes work like the Designer Village and Monks Cross and it works well imo. 

It's why I think Follingsby could work aswell as you've got the same counter flow, which already exists with the 58X anyway. No-one wants to be in Low Fell so any P&R at Eighton is either going to be the unbearable 21 or dead buses for 1/2 the journeys against the peak which will never be sustainable.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
Thinking closely...

Is it not time to look at Wallsend Interchange and look at demolishing the bus station with a view of building a car park on the site to say hold 400 cars.

BUT ... the car park has to be affordable and say £1 park all day.

(Commuters / football/ shopping ) it is ideal as the psychological aspect it is quick by metro into Monument

Another white elephant Park and ride has just opened up.... that big Car park on Gateshead Quays for the "sage"

Make a park and ride express bus service

Heworth- That Car Park at Gateshead Quays- Sage buolding then down over the swing bridge through the bus lanes already there up and do a circular route round the city (Monument up to st marys (haymarket ) down to eldon Square area (aim to pick up close to the building ) and down past the theatre royal over swing bridge past Sage back to the car park and Heworth

Key links is park and Rides linking HMRC / city centre / theatre Royal / sage
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(5 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Thinking closely...

Is it not time to look at Wallsend Interchange and look at demolishing the bus station  with a view of building a  car park on the site to say hold 400 cars.

BUT ... the car park has to be affordable and say £1 park all day.

(Commuters / football/ shopping ) it is ideal as the psychological aspect it is quick by metro into Monument

Another white elephant Park and ride has just opened up....  that big Car park on Gateshead Quays for the "sage"

Make a park and ride express bus service

Heworth- That Car Park at Gateshead Quays- Sage buolding  then down over the swing bridge through the bus lanes already there up and do a circular route round the city (Monument up to st marys (haymarket ) down to eldon Square  area (aim to pick up close to the building ) and down past the theatre royal  over swing bridge past Sage  back to the car park and Heworth

Key links is park and Rides linking HMRC / city centre / theatre Royal / sage

Must admit I was thinking about that white elephant car park. Personally I wish we'd restore the old Quaylink services and advertise them again, they're a missing link right now and 53/54/Q3 doesn't work in promoting the Quayside links; there's already been enough discussions about the poor loadings to the Northern end on the Q3, in particular.

You could easily renumber the 53/54 to the Q1/Q2 and then curtail back the Q3 back, at both ends. There's ample parking down in Spillers Wharf which is currently abandoned which could easily be served by the Q3, if you sent it back along the front via the Millenium, and possibly creating a link up The Swirle and onto Sandgate, if you wanted to keep the beach etc. 

Both those car parks are served on them anyway and could be the key for them having passengers this time and would create links to the HMRC which some people really do need if travelling from miles away. 

It also could be key to regeneration for both those areas aswell.


(5 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Page 38 Sunderland City council has earmarked a site for a park and Ride off the A1018

https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/media/2289...9682900000&ccp=true#cookie-consent-prompt

Glad to see they're looking down there, always thought it would be a good site for rail and buses really.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(4 hours ago)Storx wrote Must admit I was thinking about that white elephant car park. Personally I wish we'd restore the old Quaylink services and advertise them again, they're a missing link right now and 53/54/Q3 doesn't work in promoting the Quayside links; there's already been enough discussions about the poor loadings to the Northern end on the Q3, in particular.

You could easily renumber the 53/54 to the Q1/Q2 and then curtail back the Q3 back, at both ends. There's ample parking down in Spillers Wharf which is currently abandoned which could easily be served by the Q3, if you sent it back along the front via the Swing Bridge - admit you'd lose the beach, but it's really not the end of the world. Easily 3k spaces there which are out of the centre for those who live miles away and don't really have a choice. 

Both those car parks are served on them anyway and could be the key for them having passengers this time and would create links to the HMRC. 

It also could be key to regeneration for both those areas.



Glad to see they're looking down there, always thought it would be a good site for rail and buses really.

I would re- number Q1 Q2 to PR1 PR2 

think how it has developed in Durham as a brand (taxpayer funded btw)
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(4 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote I would re- number Q1 Q2 to PR1 PR2 

think how it has developed in Durham as a brand (taxpayer funded btw)

Aye could do, do think the Q is better though; promote the Quayside and that and the arena if it ever turns up.

I'd be tempted to go further and make them a free buses aswell on the Q1/Q2 between Gateshead and Newcastle Central and Q3 the whole route, if it was cut back (Haymarket to St Peter's Basic otherwise).

Think they could be quite popular, if advertised well, as the hill is a trek. If it cost £2.00 though, like now, I'd be hiking that hill as it's just too much.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(15 Oct 2025, 8:16 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote Appreciate this may come under service suggestion and It will obviously depend on where there is a critical mass of people, but I'd like to see Lothian Buses style peak X express services mirroring the main routes as part of the solution. Although they'd probably be oversubscribed!

Something like a 56X from the estates of Washington (not the Galleries) and fast to Newcastle, a 10X from Crawcrook, avoiding Blaydon and fast via Scotswood Road or 27X from Lukes Lane, Monkton Lane and Pelaw then fast to Newcastle. Places unconnected with the Metro where the standard bus route takes way too long to be attractive.

This absolutely needs to be part of the solution, and it's really down to short-sightedness that it's not. 

If you take routes like the X1/56 for example, they're absolutely heaving going towards Newcastle on a morning, and most of the traffic is going to Gateshead or Newcastle colleges. Surely a better solution for this, and other examples, is to actually run dedicated college services. We know the model works, as we do it already with schools.

(Yesterday, 9:10 am)Shrek wrote It'll be interesting to see when the peak would be for the new government hub in Newcastle. Most of the staff will probably be on flexi time, my office has that and people drift in any time between 7-10am and leave any time between 3.30-7pm. It could be hard to judge when that peak will come from there.

Yeah, most (if not all) will be on flexi. The HMRC staff, which I understand will form the bulk of the staff in there, have operational hours of between 7am-8pm under normal circumstances. Some other departments have different hours, but DWP (who will be one of the Pilgrim Place tenants) are broadly similar. 

(6 hours ago)MurdnunoC wrote I've said this before, but, instead of all the humming and harring about building a P&R site at Eighton Lodge, Follingsby Park offers a better solution, in my opinion. 

Irrespective of whether the Leamside Line or the Wearside Loop are ever constructed in full, a relatively short spur from Pelaw utilising either heavy or light rail (heavy rail would be probably easier and cheaper as it's still sort of connected to the network although heavily mothballed) could easily service the site with shuttles into Newcastle. 

The space is there and it's easily accessible from the south via the A194(M), and could also be useful for Washington and the A182 corridor. If the road between Nissan and Follingsby is ever upgraded, it could also service traffic coming from the A19 too. 

None of the above is really achievable with the Eighton Lodge site. Any railway station near Lamesley or Team Valley would be still be quite a distance away from where the P&R site is earmarked to be, and even if the buses manage to navigate a traffic-free route along Durham Road, through Gateshead, and across the Tyne, it's still probably a 20 minute journey.

I think both are required, and what's a better solution really depends where you're driving from. 

I'd hope that part of the Wearside Loop construction, immediate focus is placed on getting the Follingsby Park and Ride open on that short spur.
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RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
interesting about the 56...

I would mix it up...

56 All stopping service as normal
N56 leave it as it is
X56 All stops Newcastle to Gateshead Interchange than Non stop to Concord then all stops from Concord to Sunderland (Driver can go any route dictated by management aka ticket machine)

x56 only runs 7am -9am and 4pm-7pm on a 3 month trial.

departs 2 minute after the 56 (slow bus) so it follows in Newcastle city Centre basically and gives the driver option to tell people get the bus behind it is quicker and by doing this you speed both services up in theory in terms of unloading

(4 hours ago)Adrian wrote This absolutely needs to be part of the solution, and it's really down to short-sightedness that it's not. 

If you take routes like the X1/56 for example, they're absolutely heaving going towards Newcastle on a morning, and most of the traffic is going to Gateshead or Newcastle colleges. Surely a better solution for this, and other examples, is to actually run dedicated college services. We know the model works, as we do it already with schools.


Yeah, most (if not all) will be on flexi. The HMRC staff, which I understand will form the bulk of the staff in there, have operational hours of between 7am-8pm under normal circumstances. Some other departments have different hours, but DWP (who will be one of the Pilgrim Place tenants) are broadly similar. 


I think both are required, and what's a better solution really depends where you're driving from. 

I'd hope that part of the Wearside Loop construction, immediate focus is placed on getting the Follingsby Park and Ride open on that short spur.


Running a dedicated college bus on a service route becomes a problem when college isnt there.

Same as school buses how many normal passengers board... 

if there is a dedicated public service bus everyone can benefit from the cost of £45ph it runs a bus service per bus (ish). creating College only buses means services tax payers have to fund I prefer to see services become popular enough for commercial buses to operate even with a part subsidiary  at least the operator has tried that is the key! 

creating bus services that are self sufficient or if may need a 25% or 50% or even 40% subsidiary but the evidence is there and it is to be reviewed

we need Nexus secured services model to change basically
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(4 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote interesting about the 56...

I would mix it up...

56 All stopping service as normal
N56 leave it as it is
X56 All stops Newcastle to Gateshead Interchange than Non stop to Concord then all stops from Concord to Sunderland (Driver can go any route dictated by management aka ticket machine)

x56 only runs 7am -9am and 4pm-7pm on a 3 month trial.

departs 2 minute after the 56 (slow bus)  so it follows in Newcastle city Centre basically  and gives the driver option to tell people get the bus behind it is quicker and by doing this you speed both services up in theory in terms of unloading

Please no. We need to stop this short-termism. You can't expect people to start using a service, when those who provision it don't even have any faith in it. I'm glad they're doing some proper planning for once, and hopefully they can develop a proper strategy, instead of the usual tinkering around the edges and guesswork.

(4 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Running a dedicated college bus on a service route becomes a problem when college isnt there.

Same as school buses how many normal passengers board... 

if there is a dedicated public service bus everyone can benefit from the cost of £45ph it runs a bus service per bus (ish). creating College only buses means services tax payers have to fund I prefer to see services become popular enough for commercial buses to operate even with a part subsidiary  at least the operator has tried that is the key! 

creating bus services that are self sufficient or if may need a 25% or 50% or even 40% subsidiary but the evidence is there and it is to be reviewed

we need Nexus secured services model to change basically

The college is there though, 39 weeks of the calendar year.

I don't understand most of the rest of your point, I'm afraid. Colleges gain a new intake of students every year, and those students will always be predominantly 16-18, so they should be your 'low hanging fruit' for public transport usage, to coin a management phrase.

Maybe if you show them at that age that public transport can be efficient, instead of them sitting on a bus 45 minutes before changing on to another, for a journey that should (and could!) take 20 minutes max.
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RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(4 hours ago)DaveFromUpNorth wrote interesting about the 56...

I would mix it up...

56 All stopping service as normal
N56 leave it as it is
X56 All stops Newcastle to Gateshead Interchange than Non stop to Concord then all stops from Concord to Sunderland (Driver can go any route dictated by management aka ticket machine)

x56 only runs 7am -9am and 4pm-7pm on a 3 month trial.

departs 2 minute after the 56 (slow bus)  so it follows in Newcastle city Centre basically  and gives the driver option to tell people get the bus behind it is quicker and by doing this you speed both services up in theory in terms of unloadin

See I think the 56X is a bad idea personally. The X1 is the route to mess around imo and drop the thing down to every 30 minutes, with a new X2 doing something like: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newcastl...4b!1m0!3e0 which gives other further out parts a bus service to Newcastle, at all, since not a single bus stop between CLS and Houghton on that route has one, merging to be every 15 minutes from Houghton to Peterlee/Hetton

The service down that is way is awful, especially Washington itself and the Shiney Row/Penshaw area. You've now got the rest of the X1 and 4 to mess around with and deal with it imo. Not to mention potential extensions beyond to the likes of Sunderland / Seaham. 

That's where your cars are coming from... Doxford Park, also being a nightmare to get to aswell while we're at it. For example, merge one of the X1's, 37 and 62 which would give tons of direct Newcastle links and Doxford Park aswell?

Duplicating a 12 minute service with an express bus is wrong when you've got areas nearby with nothing and no real sensible connection either unless you want to change at Heworth on the 4 via a mystery tour of the North East with journey times of 90 minutes plus which is unacceptable and that's if you have the 4, at all.

I know Arriva is hated my a lot on here, but credit to their SE Northumberland Network, nearly every single house has some form of bus direct to Newcastle, with an express bit on it aswell, heck even most of Northumberland where they serve, including small places like Rothbury, Felton and Thropton with hourly services. Their East Cleveland network is much of the same with Middlesbrough aswell.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(7 hours ago)Storx wrote You'll never convert people to bus users, because of the simple fact it's a bus.

Unless it runs direct, people aren't going to be sitting on there going around the houses and if it doesn't go round the houses then it has no people. P&R at Rail and Metro sites are the long term answer for this imo.

You just have to look at how well the stations on the Northumberland Line are doing for that and Callerton Parkway on the Metro is also always well used. 

Sadly there's not really any sensible P&R South of the Tyne as by the time you get to the Metrocentre and/or Heworth you're past most the traffic and might aswell do the rest of it. Similar discussion at Regent Centre, Four Lane Ends and Northumberland Park which are generally pretty poorly used. The last which has been shut for months now.

The fact is though that these workers are literally being forced into converting to bus users, and the improvements which will be required to accommodate them all are the same improvements which will persuade other car users onto the bus. There isn't a choice for most of these people, they cannot continue driving to work, and if buses are to cope with the demand this will cause then changes will be required in some shape or form. 

There are a significant number of routes in the NE which go directly into Newcastle, pretty much using the route you'd take in a car, with only an initial 5-10 minute walk to a stop. The GNR, Durham Road, and Coast Road corridors (and the extensions north/south from some of these) are core examples. These corridors all serve large populations of people, and realistically much more could be done to improve their services. Be that additional express services (maybe a Coast Road express...), additional measures to improve timekeeping, or additional capacity.

I'd also be surprised if this is the last big jump in increased patronage into/out of the city centre. The housing and/or industrial projects at The Helix, Forth Banks, and the CAV/General will all have more people living or working within the city centre within the next few years - and most of those people will need transport.
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
(2 hours ago)PH - BQA wrote The fact is though that these workers are literally being forced into converting to bus users, and the improvements which will be required to accommodate them all are the same improvements which will persuade other car users onto the bus. There isn't a choice for most of these people, they cannot continue driving to work, and if buses are to cope with the demand this will cause then changes will be required in some shape or form. 

There are a significant number of routes in the NE which go directly into Newcastle, pretty much using the route you'd take in a car, with only an initial 5-10 minute walk to a stop. The GNR, Durham Road, and Coast Road corridors (and the extensions north/south from some of these) are core examples. These corridors all serve large populations of people, and realistically much more could be done to improve their services. Be that additional express services (maybe a Coast Road express...), additional measures to improve timekeeping, or additional capacity.

I'd also be surprised if this is the last big jump in increased patronage into/out of the city centre. The housing and/or industrial projects at The Helix, Forth Banks, and the CAV/General will all have more people living or working within the city centre within the next few years - and most of those people will need transport.

Aye no arguments there, but I'm unsure whether these corridors will be impacted too much. You have to remember at the ministry currently you can't get a parking pass, unless you've worked there for donkey years, if you live nearby, and I'd imagine those people will be in the catchment area. The Metros out of Longbenton are squash load from the ministry at the peaks, already, so there's already a lot of people currently using public transport - where they're going who knows but I'd assume some are interchanging at Gateshead and Newcastle. I know around here is, and it's further away than these - roughly 6 miles I'd say. 

It's the long distance people who are the real problem; especially those from the Peterlee area who transferred across from the closure of the office there. I really don't know what the answer is there as 1 BPH on the X10 isn't cutting it and there's not a realistic interchange point either bar via Sunderland which is a bit of a detour. The long distance people who have magical mystery tours or lack of services, at all, and pissing around interchanging in Peterlee bus station is that aswell.

Waterview Park eventually being the other issue area since there's zero bus services to Newcastle from that area either but believe that's got a few years left now.

South East from Newcastle, is a big problem though, and it's the area with by far the worst bus service aswell as if you don't have the X1, then good luck pretty much.

(Of course don't disagree with improvements in general though).
RE: Newcastle City Council - Better Bus routes
Where are all those people who come on the A19 northbound at the A690 junction traveling to and from? It's a bottleneck every day.