So is the issue the vehicles or lack of available infrastructure (charging facilities) whilst they are on route (a similar issue to electric cars in some respects)?

Is there actually any electric buses on the market that could theoretically meet the range required for the 21?

(09 Feb 2026, 10:43 pm)Storx wrote Sunderland and Slatyford have had a full Diesel operation in the evenings for weeks now.

Tbf though, that's more to do with the chargers rather than the buses themselves. At Sunderland, whoever put them in mucked up (hence the thermal incidents) and we're waiting for someone to come and completely redo them. It also depends on the running board - I had an EV all night on Saturday for example. Some could go back out on evening boards but I think they're just playing safe.

Believe they're being trickle charged at Slatyford as the chargers are non-existent at the minute? Hopefully a Slatyford drivercan correct me.

(10 Feb 2026, 11:45 am)Kuyoyo wrote Because Stockton, like Sunderland and many other Stagecoach operations with electric vehicles, have running boards designed around the battery life. Apart from a few exceptions, the majority of Stockton's late evening runs are on boards which drop back to the depot around 5pm (some exceptions do apply - one board on a Saturday goes back to the depot at quarter past 1, goes on charge then goes back out about quarter past 6 to do East Cleveland lates). Heck, go have a look at Chesterfield's blocking on Bus Times - and see how many times early afternoon X17 boards swap onto the slower Sheffield-Chesterfield routes (43 44 or 50) while buses on those boards (either 43 or 44) go onto X17s (last summer, there was a period mid-afternoon in Sheffield where an X17 arrived in from Chesterfield and worked onto a 50, with the arrival off the 50A going onto the now-withdrawn 42 to Lowedges and the 43 which arrived in from Chesterfield heading back that way as an X17).

Yeah absolutely no arguments, I just meant on the sense that doing a full days work is pretty much impossible and when you've route branded them, the opportunities for interworking starts to become a problem. Aberdeen does what Chesterfield does aswell, with the 727 to Stonehaven. It's a clever little way of making it work, to be fair to them and credit where it's due. Obviously not an option for everyone though as not everyone has local work and interurban work together.

I'm not sure what the answer is for the Angel though, currently, and it doesn't help the depot is miles away either. If only there was a depot which was at the end of the route where they could quickly pop in for a charge, or swap out at periods during the day...

(10 Feb 2026, 12:43 pm)F114TML wrote Tbf though, that's more to do with the chargers rather than the buses themselves. At Sunderland, whoever put them in mucked up (hence the thermal incidents) and we're waiting for someone to come and completely redo them. It also depends on the running board - I had an EV all night on Saturday for example. Some could go back out on evening boards but I think they're just playing safe.

Believe they're being trickle charged at Slatyford as the chargers are non-existent at the minute? Hopefully a Slatyford drivercan correct me.

Aye that's fair like.

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Btw speaking of electric buses, does anyone know what range they actually get, in real life, not the manufacturer range? Looking at boards from multiple operators, it seems to be round the 200 mile mark at the top end before things become a problem?

(10 Feb 2026, 12:39 pm)morritt89 wrote So is the issue the vehicles or lack of available infrastructure (charging facilities) whilst they are on route (a similar issue to electric cars in some respects)?

Is there actually any electric buses on the market that could theoretically meet the range required for the 21?

For the first bit, I'd say both. 
You can have the best electric vehicle in the world, but if it doesn't have the mileage it's diesel equivalent has, then you can have all the charging infrastructure in the world - it still isn't going to sort out the current running boards or route demands.

For the second bit. 
Theres absolutely no way I'd have the brass neck to go cap in hand to the government and make a business case for a vehicle purchase, knowing the vehicle chosen isn't suitable.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that the Cold Weather for the time of year is having an impact and also the lack of Ultra-Fast Charging (Pantograph/Opportunity Charging) infrastructure would solve these issues as these systems use high-power chargers (up to 450–600 kW) at end-of-route stations. In 7 minutes, they can add approximately 20% to 35% to the battery. I based this example off of the 7 minutes the 36 Leeds-Harrogate/Ripon which uses this system when on stand in Harrogate Bus Station, doing the route on the opposite direction they get 10 minutes which means for each round trip they do the Bus is on charge for 17 minutes which pretty much maintains the Bus is at full charge all day.

As for Layover times with the 21 the current running boards are another issue as I have just looked over a few and they're between 2-7 minutes in Newcastle with latter not being sufficient at all, even at other points of the route i.e. Gateshead, Chester-Le-Street, Durham and Brandon drivers get 2-4 minutes so depending on what board you're on you get between 4-11 minutes layover in total which in turn given the milage of a Newcastle-Brandon run isn't much at all.

I think the 58 would operate fine if there was infrastructure installed at Heworth Metro as they get around 9 minutes layover from 10am onwards from viewing timetables.

Things need to change for this to work

(10 Feb 2026, 11:30 am)Nerd4321 wrote Probs the only place to put this but two ticket machines have tracked at Percy Main today with fleet numbers 8355 & 8356 both tracking on 301 & 356

Presuming they're StreetLites?

(10 Feb 2026, 5:35 pm)alexanderdennis0312933 wrote Presuming they're StreetLites?

On Bustimes.org it has 8355/8356 but no record of what the vehicle type is or registration plate.

Probably just a Depot Staff setting up Ticket Machines and testing them before potential New Midi Buses arrive if any are on order as part of the Go-Ahead Group Order or if we're due newer Second Buses from other Go-Ahead Divisions. 

The current fleet of Midi Buses goes up to 8354 (WX12 GEJ) which is an Ex Swindon Streetlite.

Presumably these numbers will be given to two of the E200EVs?

(10 Feb 2026, 7:30 pm)F114TML wrote Presumably these numbers will be given to two of the E200EVs?

I believe these will be 5810-5813 or 8810-8813 depending on if they are full length single deckers or not.

(10 Feb 2026, 7:30 pm)F114TML wrote Presumably these numbers will be given to two of the E200EVs?

I would of thought but not for Percy Main

(10 Feb 2026, 12:43 pm)F114TML wrote Believe they're being trickle charged at Slatyford as the chargers are non-existent at the minute? Hopefully a Slatyford drivercan correct me.

Yes we are currently charging our Yutongs using diesel generators and only have 10 out of our 18 in service. Chargers are being installed as we speak but probably won’t be ready until March/April at the earliest. Currently the 10 out in service have to be back in the depot for 7pm to charge overnight.

From looking at Bustimes.org GNE Fleet List 42/50 Ultroliners/Electroliners have been delivered, should be another 8 Ultroliners to be delivered at some point which would be 6401-6408 for Washington Depot.

(10 Feb 2026, 7:30 pm)F114TML wrote Presumably these numbers will be given to two of the E200EVs?

E200EVs for Riverside? For what services again? Sorry, I can't remember! Are these for the X66? Can't remember what single deckers are for the X66. There are so many new buses entering service, it's hard to keep up.

(10 Feb 2026, 9:30 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote E200EVs for Riverside? For what services again? Sorry, I can't remember! Are these for the X66? Can't remember what single deckers are for the X66. There are so many new buses entering service, it's hard to keep up.

E200EV's are for the X66 and should be delivered in the coming weeks.

(10 Feb 2026, 9:37 pm)Malarkey wrote E200EV's are for the X66 and should be delivered in the coming weeks.

Thanks, Malarkey. Single deckers for the X66 is a ridiculous allocation with how busy they get at the current frequency. Do we know where the supershuttle E200 MMCs are going?

(10 Feb 2026, 8:53 pm)Malarkey wrote From looking at Bustimes.org GNE Fleet List 42/50 Ultroliners/Electroliners have been delivered, should be another 8 Ultroliners to be delivered at some point which would be 6401-6408 for Washington Depot.

I thought GNE were only getting 23 or 25 diesel Ultroliners, not 31?

As 6378-6408 would make 31.

No disrespect but if GNE have took the option extra diesel Ultroliners, these should be for the X21 IMO.

(10 Feb 2026, 9:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Thanks, Malarkey. Single deckers for the X66 is a ridiculous allocation with how busy they get at the current frequency. Do we know where the supershuttle E200 MMCs are going?

I fully agree, the X66 should be Double Decker Allocation as it seems to be most days currently but it is Go North East and they'll never learn.

Supershuttle E200MMC's I would imagine will join the rest of the batch at Consett unless the full batch get moved altogether on something like the 4 (Heworth to Houghton).

There's a couple of Streetdecks at Deptford waiting for service, and by the looks of it missing a couple of parts on the one at the front, it's got no headlight covers.

(10 Feb 2026, 8:53 pm)Malarkey wrote From looking at Bustimes.org GNE Fleet List 42/50 Ultroliners/Electroliners have been delivered, should be another 8 Ultroliners to be delivered at some point which would be 6401-6408 for Washington Depot.

I was travelling on the 8 going through beamish to Stanley  and I asked the mentor driver about this (bus was quiet) and he seems to think there is more  to come.didnt say which depot or routes

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Sorry I forgot to mention he said deckers

(10 Feb 2026, 8:39 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote Yes we are currently charging our Yutongs using diesel generators and only have 10 out of our 18 in service. Chargers are being installed as we speak but probably won’t be ready until March/April at the earliest. Currently the 10 out in service have to be back in the depot for 7pm to charge overnight.

That's absolutely mental state of affairs. 

It reminds me at the height of the energy price crisis, Ralph Roberts of McGill's said it worked out cheaper to use diesel generators than plug straight in to the national grid!

For the half term coming up, some duties have been amended so the driver takes his bus to depot to go on charge, has their meal break at riverside and brings a new bus out.

Unsure if this is permanent or a trial over half term.

(12 Feb 2026, 3:48 pm)NL62WVW wrote For the half term coming up, some duties have been amended so the driver takes his bus to depot to go on charge, has their meal break at riverside and brings a new bus out.

Unsure if this is permanent or a trial over half term.

A suggestion i made few weeks ago  but was to interwork with x66

(12 Feb 2026, 3:48 pm)NL62WVW wrote For the half term coming up, some duties have been amended so the driver takes his bus to depot to go on charge, has their meal break at riverside and brings a new bus out.

Unsure if this is permanent or a trial over half term.

So this pretty much proves that theyre having range issues.

its about 15 mins from Eldon Square to Riverside and back 30 mins, plus 40 mins late and 21 doesnt run to time most the time

What are these diesel streetdecks at Riverside actually for, as I thought it was for the X10, but they haven't really been used on there at all (maybe 1 day). Is that still the plan eventually? Are they keeping them more local to start with as they are seeing breakdowns? and then maybe X10 eventually?

I have done some travelling in the past year, I've been to Krakow, Wroclaw, Oslo, Toronto, Budapest, Prague, Vienna, Paris.

Apart from Paris and Toronto. the public transport that I've witnessed has been amazing, the app tracks the bus, all the buses were on time I only saw 1 bus Out Of Service at all when I was in all of these locations, when all of these can run excellent public transport and be compliment why cant we. . I must say if countries and Oslo imparticular had a load of electric buses, however what they've done is even in the Norweigen Winter their Ruter buses aren't allowed to be over 13 Degrees this is to keep and improve mileage and electric buses im pretty sure are like 75% of Ruter Fleet in Oslo which shows how they still struggle to keep them charged

I don't think private owners can run electric buses properly unless they invest in the end of stop infrastructure which I dont believe they ever will.

eletric buses are doomed from the start, just wait till theyre 5 years old without this infrastructure being put into place.

(12 Feb 2026, 8:29 pm)Unber43 wrote I have done some travelling in the past year, I've been to Krakow, Wroclaw, Oslo, Toronto, Budapest, Prague, Vienna, Paris.

Apart from Paris and Toronto. the public transport that I've witnessed has been amazing, the app tracks the bus, all the buses were on time I only saw 1 bus Out Of Service at all when I was in all of these locations, when all of these can run excellent public transport and be compliment why cant we. . I must say if countries  and Oslo imparticular  had a load of electric buses, however what they've done is even in the Norweigen Winter their Ruter buses aren't allowed to be over 13 Degrees this is to keep and improve mileage and electric buses im pretty sure are like 75% of Ruter Fleet in Oslo which shows how they still struggle to keep them charged

I don't think private owners can run electric buses properly unless they invest in the end of stop infrastructure which I dont believe they ever will.

eletric buses are doomed from the start, just wait till theyre 5 years old without this infrastructure being put into place.

Surprised at you thinking Paris is bad, it's one of the best public transport networks around imo; the Trams/Metro/RER/Transilien covers pretty much everywhere to the stage that buses are just completely irrelevent there.

Btw it's not just the private issue, the bigger issue is other countries see public transport as a service, whereas Britain sees it as an expense. Once you try balancing the books then it never works; arguably the only other place that does that is America and Canada.

(12 Feb 2026, 11:08 pm)Storx wrote Surprised at you thinking Paris is bad, it's one of the best public transport networks around imo; the Trams/Metro/RER/Transilien covers pretty much everywhere to the stage that buses are just completely irrelevent there.

Btw it's not just the private issue, the bigger issue is other countries see public transport as a service, whereas Britain sees it as an expense. Once you try balancing the books then it never works; arguably the only other place that does that is America and Canada.

Maybe because paris is very dirty and that just put my mind off it.

But when I was there I used the metro, no trams tho. And the app was good too to use. 

I think I used 1 bus and that was only cos it was raining.

Roger French..not a fan of the GNE approach to electric bus launches

https://busandtrainuser.com/2026/02/12/r...the-angel/

(14 Feb 2026, 6:11 am)Kimlfixit wrote Roger French..not a fan of the GNE approach to electric bus launches

https://busandtrainuser.com/2026/02/12/r...the-angel/

Probably Possibly due to it being a different clique running the show now and him not being invited to the launch event.
Just a hunch.

(14 Feb 2026, 6:11 am)Kimlfixit wrote Roger French..not a fan of the GNE approach to electric bus launches

https://busandtrainuser.com/2026/02/12/r...the-angel/

Well, that doesn't surprise me, he rarely likes out these days.