(05 May 2014, 7:33 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Some clever person has identified the loophole and the system has spread throughout the UK.

I wonder if it is endemic in the coach or even trucking industries too?

I don't think there is the possibility for trucks not to use tachographs.

The concession simply applies to service buses operating a route up to 50kms

(05 May 2014, 7:33 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Whether it is the savings made by not installing the kit in the vehicles, not having to train staff and apply for the digital cards and/or the rota/staffing issues it can help reduce - money has to be the core reasoning behind the splitting of routes.
I can't think of any other logical reason it could be anything else.

Once a driver has driven a vehicle that requires a tachograph, that driver has to keep a record of their duty and rest periods for the rest of the working week.
They also have to keep a record of duty and rest periods during their working week before they drive a tachograph vehicle though non-tachograph duty is classed as 'other work' rather than 'driving'.

The driver also has to be able to account for the previous 28 days if there is any week that includes tachograph duty!

Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs.

(05 May 2014, 8:13 pm)G-CPTN wrote don't think there is the possibility for trucks not to use tachographs.

The concession simply applies to service buses operating a route up to 50kms



Once a driver has driven a vehicle that requires a tachograph, that driver has to keep a record of their duty and rest periods for the rest of the working week.
They also have to keep a record of duty and rest periods during their working week before they drive a tachograph vehicle though non-tachograph duty is classed as 'other work' rather than 'driving'.

The driver also has to be able to account for the previous 28 days if there is any week that includes tachograph duty!

Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs.

Exactly.
There is a reason for that.
The same reason it was introduced for drivers on these longer distance bus services.

I may be a tad slow here, but is there any news on the Durham Park and Ride contract yet? And if Durham lose it, where would the Solo's be allocated?

(05 May 2014, 8:37 pm)JoshP wrote I may be a tad slow here, but is there any news on the Durham Park and Ride contract yet? And if Durham lose it, where would the Solo's be allocated?

The tender has only just gone out for companies to bid.
Either way if we win or lose it, the current vehicles used will be coming off and dished out. One would suggest the depots who have elderly MPDs to replace would be high up the list for replacement.

(05 May 2014, 8:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote The tender has only just gone out for companies to bid.
Either way if we win or lose it, the current vehicles used will be coming off and dished out. One would suggest the depots who have elderly MPDs to replace would be high up the list for replacement.

Yeah, they need to be Electric Buses and Euro 6?

(05 May 2014, 8:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote The tender has only just gone out for companies to bid.
Either way if we win or lose it, the current vehicles used will be coming off and dished out. One would suggest the depots who have elderly MPDs to replace would be high up the list for replacement.

That's sounds like Darlington, especially with the older SPD's and MPDs coming off. Followed by Stockton I would guess?

Darlo is just gonna be full of Solo's, Pulsars and Omni's!

Durham Park and Ride contract.

Previous contract.

Scarlet Band Optare Solos.

Arriva NE P&R Solo.

(05 May 2014, 8:25 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Exactly.
There is a reason for that.
The same reason it was introduced for drivers on these longer distance bus services.

I can understand the rule for long distance touring to ensure drivers have enough rest, but what is the difference between a driver going to Carlisle and back and a driver operating the 308's for 4 hours plus?

Both have a duty board showing exactly what they should be doing, the duties will be on a rota whereby the daily and weekly rest will be shown, so why should the driver of the 685 be under different regulations just because he is going more than 50km?

(05 May 2014, 8:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote The tender has only just gone out for companies to bid.
Either way if we win or lose it, the current vehicles used will be coming off and dished out. One would suggest the depots who have elderly MPDs to replace would be high up the list for replacement.

The rumors for the current Park and Ride Solos will go to either Darlington or Blyth.

(05 May 2014, 9:07 pm)citaro5284 wrote I can understand the rule for long distance touring to ensure drivers have enough rest, but what is the difference between a driver going to Carlisle and back and a driver operating the 308's for 4 hours plus?

Both have a duty board showing exactly what they should be doing, the duties will be on a rota whereby the daily and weekly rest will be shown, so why should the driver of the 685 be under different regulations just because he is going more than 50km?

Because The EU.

(05 May 2014, 9:07 pm)citaro5284 wrote I can understand the rule for long distance touring to ensure drivers have enough rest, but what is the difference between a driver going to Carlisle and back and a driver operating the 308's for 4 hours plus?

Both have a duty board showing exactly what they should be doing, the duties will be on a rota whereby the daily and weekly rest will be shown, so why should the driver of the 685 be under different regulations just because he is going more than 50km?

Here here. Why should things be different for one driver to another. Hence the splitting of the 85/685 amongst others now. Makes all drivers at the depot equal.

(05 May 2014, 9:07 pm)citaro5284 wrote I can understand the rule for long distance touring to ensure drivers have enough rest, but what is the difference between a driver going to Carlisle and back and a driver operating the 308's for 4 hours plus?

Both have a duty board showing exactly what they should be doing, the duties will be on a rota whereby the daily and weekly rest will be shown, so why should the driver of the 685 be under different regulations just because he is going more than 50km?

There's no difference at all.
Just as there isn't for an HGV driver doing 4 hours plus - but the HGV driver needs one.

Some might say the whole principle of recording hours is bureaucracy - others may say it is needed to stamp out those who would otherwise flout the law or falsify records.

(05 May 2014, 9:22 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote There's no difference at all.
Just as there isn't for an HGV driver doing 4 hours plus - but the HGV driver needs one.

But all HGV's need a tachograph don't they to record driving and rest periods as they do not have a duty board with set times on which shows daily rest periods or a rota which shows days off's.

The concession (no tachograph) only applies to service buses that travel no further than 50km. Almost all other vehicles need tachographs.

There are a few exceptions - military vehicles and vehicles classed as engineering plant (ie they don't carry a load for hire and reward).

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/exemptions-from-eu-law

Any ideas what will replace the the S KHN & R COO darts at darlo as some town services require the capacity

Does applying the GB domestic rules allow the company to exempt someone from the working time directive? I.e. Daily rest break is listed as 10 hours, as oppose to 11 hours I'm entitled to under WTD? Same goes for weekly rest breaks. 1 day per week or a full 2 days per fortnight, yet only 1 per fortnight for drivers driving under GB domestic rules? Find it hard to believe that I'm entitled to more rest breaks than someone operating heavy machinery whilst being responsible for up to 70+ passengers at a time.

(05 May 2014, 10:15 pm)aureolin wrote Does applying the GB domestic rules allow the company to exempt someone from the working time directive? I.e. Daily rest break is listed as 10 hours, as oppose to 11 hours I'm entitled to under WTD? Same goes for weekly rest breaks. 1 day per week or a full 2 days per fortnight, yet only 1 per fortnight for drivers driving under GB domestic rules? Find it hard to believe that I'm entitled to more rest breaks than someone operating heavy machinery whilst being responsible for up to 70+ passengers at a time.

You are getting too complex for me - only those like yourself who actually have to comply will know what is required.

I've been wondering how a minibus driver can work 11 hours per day (9 hours driving with a 2 hour break midday) for six days on consecutive weeks - 54 hours driving - should be no more than 90 hours over two weeks . . .

(05 May 2014, 10:31 pm)G-CPTN wrote You are getting too complex for me - only those like yourself who actually have to comply will know what is required.

I've been wondering how a minibus driver can work 11 hours per day (9 hours driving with a 2 hour break midday) for six days on consecutive weeks - 54 hours driving - should be no more than 90 hours over two weeks . . .

I don't drive buses. Was just referring to the EU Working Time Directive that we all (apart from a handful of exceptions) benefit from as workers.

(05 May 2014, 10:15 pm)aureolin wrote Does applying the GB domestic rules allow the company to exempt someone from the working time directive? I.e. Daily rest break is listed as 10 hours, as oppose to 11 hours I'm entitled to under WTD? Same goes for weekly rest breaks. 1 day per week or a full 2 days per fortnight, yet only 1 per fortnight for drivers driving under GB domestic rules? Find it hard to believe that I'm entitled to more rest breaks than someone operating heavy machinery whilst being responsible for up to 70+ passengers at a time.

In a nutshell.....yes. Another loophole is that as long as you have a 24 hour period off in a rolling 2 weeks then you are legal, and because the week starts at 00.00 on a Monday, if you have a rest period on a Monday of week 1, as long as you have a 24 hour rest period by the Sunday of week 3, you can actually work 19 days before you need a 24 hour period off......

(05 May 2014, 9:42 pm)citaro5284 wrote But all HGV's need a tachograph don't they to record driving and rest periods as they do not have a duty board with set times on which shows daily rest periods or a rota which shows days off's.

A traffic office in a haulage company has all sorts of paperwork and procedures in place to record vehicle allocations, routes, days in/off - just as a bus depot has and can be fiddled or manipulated to suit employer needs, just as it can in the PSV world.

Having systems in place in the office, shouldn't exempt any a driver of say a 10t bus or a driver of a 10t truck from requiring a tachograph, just to save a few quid.

(05 May 2014, 9:53 pm)ross13 wrote Any ideas what will replace the the S KHN & R COO darts at darlo as some town services require the capacity

I have no idea. I guess cascades from the Sapphire and MAX refurbs?

Was hoping to report better things today? But no. We've got 7488 heading into Boro for the 1025 X93 but heading out on the 0925 is a Scania Ommni, 4655.

4655 is actually allocated to Whitby with other 4648/49/50/51 at Redcar

Think we could be right with the allocations on the X93 today to be honest? 7484 is waiting MBS to run the 1125 to S'Boro. Frankly I'd rather do the trip on an Ommni, think they are the best type for the route but sadly we can't get everyone on them at times.

Facebook's alive and well today? Must have been more problems in Whitby yesterday and the X4/4 getting grief!

(05 May 2014, 12:20 pm)tyresmoke wrote No business will operate something that doesn't make money. Hence nobody operating into the National Park ... I am interested to see whether East Yorkshire can make theirs pay, operating it as a tourist service and therefore ENCTS passes aren't valid, albeit with a reduced concessionary fare. They haven't announced the times or fares yet but the outbound timings appear to be good for onward connections to Whitby or Helmsley.
If I had to bet now, I would say it won't run in 2015 but we'll see!

You can't defend 4651 on X93, no matter what I say! It has been reported to higher up though!

"Reported to higher up" but it didn't make any difference - 4655 on it today!

Better than having 1743 on it!

Don't fuel the fire David!! If I find out that its being used then I will go nuts!

Have just penned a letter to Nick Knox regarding the X93 but whether I dare send it I'm not sure! Don't want to end up getting banned!! We know how they hate being criticised!

(05 May 2014, 5:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote Nice to hear something positive for a change... Darlington provided 2 buses on their Dalesbus service this morning from Darlington all the way to Hawes for extra capacity. No doubt they've duplicated the return journey this evening too.

That's good. Would they get paid extra for that?