(28 Jun 2014, 12:48 pm)aureolin wrote Few slight route changes I've came up with.

Amend the Lime 8 service to split between having an 8/8A service. The 8 would take the same route as present, and run hourly between Stanley and Sunderland - no changes.

The 8A would run hourly too, and take the ame route as the 8 at present, but with one amendment. From Washington Galleries, the 8A would do Parkway - Abbey Road - Village Lane - Glebe Crescent - Emmerson Terrace - Northumberland Way - Station Road - Pattinson Road - Waterview Park - A19 Roundabout. Providing links to both the new shopping area and (soon to be pub) at Teal Farm, as well as a link between the village and Sunderland.

I've done a quick sketch on Google Maps for those not familiar with the streets - https://goo.gl/maps/hQmPc

Second amendment would be with the 4. Instead of terminating at Fallowfield Way on an evening and Sunday, it should run right down Biddick Lane, turn left at the Welfare, and serve the club and bars down the riverside, then back up Wormhill Terrace. I reckon you'd certainly get the numbers to make it worth doing, and it would only add an extra 2 minutes on to what you've got now.

Good idea, but I've made a change to the 8A as seen here, so it can serve Peel Retail Park.

(28 Jun 2014, 12:48 pm)aureolin wrote Few slight route changes I've came up with.

Amend the Lime 8 service to split between having an 8/8A service. The 8 would take the same route as present, and run hourly between Stanley and Sunderland - no changes.

The 8A would run hourly too, and take the ame route as the 8 at present, but with one amendment. From Washington Galleries, the 8A would do Parkway - Abbey Road - Village Lane - Glebe Crescent - Emmerson Terrace - Northumberland Way - Station Road - Pattinson Road - Waterview Park - A19 Roundabout. Providing links to both the new shopping area and (soon to be pub) at Teal Farm, as well as a link between the village and Sunderland.

I've done a quick sketch on Google Maps for those not familiar with the streets - https://goo.gl/maps/hQmPc

Second amendment would be with the 4. Instead of terminating at Fallowfield Way on an evening and Sunday, it should run right down Biddick Lane, turn left at the Welfare, and serve the club and bars down the riverside, then back up Wormhill Terrace. I reckon you'd certainly get the numbers to make it worth doing, and it would only add an extra 2 minutes on to what you've got now.

That looks quite good - would be nice to have a route like that. One thing I must say that the 8 needs in both the direction of Sunderland AND Stanley is a new time schedule - as when they come off the motorway coming in from Sunderland at Chester they always hit the traffic, and then when coming back down from Stanley they hit it again, to make matters worse there's also driver changeovers up at Stanley! Miraculously though, when they come back around as a 78 they are only normally one or two minutes late, and if your lucky, on time!

X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Peterlee – Billingham – Middlesbrough

X10 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Norton - Stockton - Middlesbrough

- Frequency of Both Services Remains the same
- Reliability of Vehicles on the Service Improved
- Less Strain on the Vehicles due Excessive Motorway Work
- Delays to Service Reduced by not using the A19 as much
- New Links to Peterlee, Stockton and Middlesbrough from Washington Galleries
- Service X1 Reduced to Every 15 Minutes

Obviously there will be some time added to the Service, which would result in a PVR Increase, hence why the Frequency of the X1 is Reduced.

(29 Jun 2014, 8:27 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Peterlee – Billingham – Middlesbrough

X10 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Norton - Stockton - Middlesbrough

- Frequency of Both Services Remains the same
- Reliability of Vehicles on the Service Improved
- Less Strain on the Vehicles due Excessive Motorway Work
- Delays to Service Reduced by not using the A19 as much
- New Links to Peterlee, Stockton and Middlesbrough from Washington Galleries
- Service X1 Reduced to Every 15 Minutes

Obviously there will be some time added to the Service, which would result in a PVR Increase, hence why the Frequency of the X1 is Reduced.

Is that similar to the old X5, only difference being it goes to Boro and not Hartlepool...

As for the time increase, would punters not be put off by it and start using the train, the X9 and X10 are both timetabled to be as quick as, if not a few minutes quicker than the train

(29 Jun 2014, 9:02 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Is that similar to the old X5, only difference being it goes to Boro and not Hartlepool...

As for the time increase, would punters not be put off by it and start using the train, the X9 and X10 are both timetabled to be as quick as, if not a few minutes quicker than the train

Yeah but you'd think the Passengers would be put off by sitting on the A19 for up to an Hour due a incident on the A19 on almost a Daily Basis on the X9/X10 or the Bus simply Breaking Down, but the Majority will still more than likely use the Service as it is Cheaper than the Train I would imagine.

(29 Jun 2014, 9:13 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Yeah but you'd think the Passengers would be put off by sitting on the A19 for up to an Hour due a incident on the A19 on almost a Daily Basis on the X9/X10 or the Bus simply Breaking Down, but the Majority will still more than likely use the Service as it is Cheaper than the Train I would imagine.

At most passengers would wait half an hour for the following X9/X10 which would in turn be diverted to serve the locations served by the vehicle which had broken down (adds an extra 10-15 mins to journey).

This type of breakdown is infrequent.

The more common reason for a service not operating is because a vehicle has shown signs of needing to be replaced and the depot hasn't been able to get a bus out on time for the scheduled departure. Obviously tachometers come into play here.

For the record, I'd be seriously discouraged from using the TTX if its journey time was any longer than it already is.
Oh, and it would add extra journey time which would mean drivers probably couldn't finish their round trip.

(29 Jun 2014, 8:27 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote X9 - Newcastle – Gateshead – Heworth – Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Peterlee – Billingham – Middlesbrough

X10 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Washington Galleries - Houghton le Spring - Norton - Stockton - Middlesbrough

- Frequency of Both Services Remains the same
- Reliability of Vehicles on the Service Improved
- Less Strain on the Vehicles due Excessive Motorway Work
- Delays to Service Reduced by not using the A19 as much
- New Links to Peterlee, Stockton and Middlesbrough from Washington Galleries
- Service X1 Reduced to Every 15 Minutes

Obviously there will be some time added to the Service, which would result in a PVR Increase, hence why the Frequency of the X1 is Reduced.

I think that would add around an extra 30 minutes to the timetable and that would take the journey time upto almost 2 hours each way which would also make it tight for driving hours too.

Also I'm not sure many people in Middlesbrough would want to go to the Washington Galleries.

(29 Jun 2014, 9:13 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Yeah but you'd think the Passengers would be put off by sitting on the A19 for up to an Hour due a incident on the A19 on almost a Daily Basis on the X9/X10 or the Bus simply Breaking Down, but the Majority will still more than likely use the Service as it is Cheaper than the Train I would imagine.

How much time do you think would be added, no matter which it goes, there is always a chance of getting stuck in traffic and you make it sound like the X9/X10 is getting stuck in traffic on every run, which is not the case. And at what time of day is it getting caught in traffic, most like the AM and PM rush hour, nothing can be done about that.

I reckon by going through Washington and Houghton there will be a considerable increase because of speed limits though built up areas whereas on the A19 It stays at a steady pace.

What is the timing at the moment on them...about 80 minutes, I bet you would looking way north of 90 mins with your suggestion...

And yes, the bus is cheaper than the train, but for the sake of say 10 minutes, it may drive people onto the train, also would the people of Houghton or Hetton be bothered about a direct link to Middlesbrough

Still, interesting suggestion anyway pal

(29 Jun 2014, 9:29 pm)Jimmi wrote I think that would add around an extra 30 minutes to the timetable and that would take the journey time upto almost 2 hours each way which would also make it tight for driving hours too.

Also I'm not sure many people in Middlesbrough would want to go to the Washington Galleries.

From looking at the X9/X10 Timetable, it takes 29 Minutes from Heworth to Peterlee, With my idea - The X9/X10 would only Serve Washington and Houghton otherwise it's Limited Stopping as it is now, with that being said I think Heworth to Peterlee via Washington and Houghton could be done in around 40-45 Minutes.

Route would be as follows

Heworth - A184 Felling Bybass - Lingey Lane - Northumberland Way to Peel Retail Park - A1231 to Washington Galleries - X1 Route to Easington Lane - Continues from Easington Lane via X35 Route to Peterlee.
- Note doesn't stop at Easington Lane, this simply a via Point.

(29 Jun 2014, 9:50 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote From looking at the X9/X10 Timetable, it takes 29 Minutes from Heworth to Peterlee, With my idea - The X9/X10 would only Serve Washington and Houghton otherwise it's Limited Stopping as it is now, with that being said I think Heworth to Peterlee via Washington and Houghton could be done in around 40-45 Minutes.

Route would be as follows

Heworth - A184 Felling Bybass - Lingey Lane - Northumberland Way to Peel Retail Park - A1231 to Washington Galleries - X1 Route to Easington Lane - Continues from Easington Lane via X35 Route to Peterlee.
- Note doesn't stop at Easington Lane, this simply a via Point.

I'm trying to make sense of your suggestion Adam, I really am

40-45 between Heworth-Peterlee via Washington is quite optimistic in my opinion, I would suggest it is closer to an hour, looking at current timings it is currently

21 minutes Heworth-Washington on the 4, shave a few minutes off that because your suggestion does not include Concord
16 minutes Washington-Houghton on X1, again shave a few minutes off
28 minutes Houghton-Peterlee on X35

I know you said limited stop, at best you would shave off a few minutes from each part of the journey

Let's say:-

Heworth-Washington: 18 Mins
Washington-Houghton: 15 Mins
Houghton-Peterlee: 25 Mins

All together the time would rise close to 2 hours

Newcastle-Peterlee would be close to 90 minutes and about 40 minutes...

I do like the way you think though, and I do like your enthusiasm and the thought you put into your suggestions and would love to know how you comeup with ideas...I will never forget your idea for a service to Gretna and Dumfries

(29 Jun 2014, 10:43 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I'm trying to make sense of your suggestion Adam, I really am

40-45 between Heworth-Peterlee via Washington is quite optimistic in my opinion, I would suggest it is closer to an hour, looking at current timings it is currently

21 minutes Heworth-Washington on the 4, shave a few minutes off that because your suggestion does not include Concord
16 minutes Washington-Houghton on X1, again shave a few minutes off
28 minutes Houghton-Peterlee on X35

I know you said limited stop, at best you would shave off a few minutes from each part of the journey

Let's say:-

Heworth-Washington: 18 Mins
Washington-Houghton: 15 Mins
Houghton-Peterlee: 25 Mins

All together the time would rise close to 2 hours

Newcastle-Peterlee would be close to 90 minutes and about 40 minutes...

I do like the way you think though, and I do like your enthusiasm and the thought you put into your suggestions and would love to know how you comeup with ideas...I will never forget your idea for a service to Gretna and Dumfries

Heworth to Washington: 14 Minutes on the 922
Washington to Houghton: 14 Minutes on the X1
Houghton to Peterlee Non Stop via X35 Route: 18 Minutes
Total: 46 Minutes

I simply look at a Timetable and Analyse it, and then try and find suitable ways of improving the Service against other Services in the same Operating Area. As for the Gretna and Dumfries Service, I can't remember that one unless you can find the post to prove otherwise.

(29 Jun 2014, 11:22 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Heworth to Washington: 14 Minutes on the 922
Washington to Houghton: 14 Minutes on the X1
Houghton to Peterlee Non Stop via X35 Route: 18 Minutes
Total: 46 Minutes

I simply look at a Timetable and Analyse it, and then try and find suitable ways of improving the Service against other Services in the same Operating Area. As for the Gretna and Dumfries Service, I can't remember that one unless you can find the post to prove otherwise.

It was actually Gretna and Annan, not Dumfries

The post from last September

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...6#pid12396

Wearside and county durham seem to have a few good routes north tyneside is a different story

I'd say the frequency of the 4 is perfect for connecting on the X9/X10 already.

(30 Jun 2014, 1:54 am)aureolin wrote I'd say the frequency of the 4 is perfect for connecting on the X9/X10 already.

As long as the connection doesn't need to be early in the morning or late evening (commuters) and the furthest south you live on the 4 route is Washington :p

Using the 4 to get to Heworth for a connecting bus to Teesside (arriving before 9) isn't practical or possible for many (myself included).
The return journey can be done, but it is a long journey after being at work.
Seeing the bus whizz past sliproads on the a19 when heading North, being moments from home and knowing you wont be back in the vicinity for circa another 60mins is demoralising too.

Going via Durham on the x1/2 or Sunderland on the train is a lot more convenient and quicker for a lot of people living on the route of the 4 and needing to commute to/from Teesside. Even if it means a change of bus (as much of a pain that is).

(29 Jun 2014, 11:31 pm)marxistafozzski wrote It was actually Gretna and Annan, not Dumfries

The post from last September

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...6#pid12396

To be fair to Adam, Stagecoach operate that route, so I don't see how it's a bad idea. They operate the 79 from Carlisle to Dumfries, and the 179 from Carlisle to Annan which interworks with the Annan town service.

EDIT: Here is the timetable: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...813813.pdf - And if you think that's long, check this out! http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...131328.pdf

(30 Jun 2014, 6:34 am)Tom wrote To be fair to Adam, Stagecoach operate that route, so I don't see how it's a bad idea. They operate the 79 from Carlisle to Dumfries, and the 179 from Carlisle to Annan which interworks with the Annan town service.

EDIT: Here is the timetable: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...813813.pdf - And if you think that's long, check this out! http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...131328.pdf

That is quite long. Is that a similar kind of time it takes from Newcastle to Berwick or Newcastle to Carlisle on the 685

(30 Jun 2014, 6:34 am)Tom wrote To be fair to Adam, Stagecoach operate that route, so I don't see how it's a bad idea. They operate the 79 from Carlisle to Dumfries, and the 179 from Carlisle to Annan which interworks with the Annan town service.

EDIT: Here is the timetable: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...813813.pdf - And if you think that's long, check this out! http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Conte...131328.pdf

Have it as a MegaBus Service and we are all sorted.

(30 Jun 2014, 4:12 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Have it as a MegaBus Service and we are all sorted.

Doubt that will happen - it has E300's with high back seats anyway.

(30 Jun 2014, 4:12 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Have it as a MegaBus Service and we are all sorted.

I have often wondered if GNE could introduce low cost coach travel to compete with Stagecoach and be able to make it work

(30 Jun 2014, 4:45 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I have often wondered if GNE could introduce low cost coach travel to compete with Stagecoach and be able to make it work

I'd highly doubt they'd be able to at local level. If anything, I'd assume it would be a group venture at national level. It's essentially them stepping into a new market though, so it'd need to be approved by at board level and by the shareholders I'd assume...

(30 Jun 2014, 5:44 pm)aureolin wrote I'd highly doubt they'd be able to at local level. If anything, I'd assume it would be a group venture at national level. It's essentially them stepping into a new market though, so it'd need to be approved by at board level and by the shareholders I'd assume...

Sorry I meant the Go-Ahead Group not just GNE

(30 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Sorry I meant the Go-Ahead Group not just GNE

They kind of do already with National Express work but they'd be mad to go off themselves.

Go Ahead just isn't a strong enough brand and is fairly toxic in some parts due to its train operations

(30 Jun 2014, 7:06 pm)gtom wrote They kind of do already with National Express work but they'd be mad to go off themselves.

Go Ahead just isn't a strong enough brand and is fairly toxic in some parts due to its train operations

Ah right, I don't really have great knowledge on Go-Ahead outside of the North East

(30 Jun 2014, 7:48 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Ah right, I don't really have great knowledge on Go-Ahead outside of the North East

They're focusing the business in the south of England, around the home counties and London.
That is where they see the money/profits.

As well as bus operations and buyouts of independents, they run trains into London from Birmingham and Brighton (amongst others).
They have just won the Capital Connect service from First.

The service from Birmingham has a notorious reputation.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Midland (obviously not the best source, but it gives you an idea of how the public view their toc).

(30 Jun 2014, 7:55 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote The service from Birmingham has a notorious reputation.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Midland (obviously not the best source, but it gives you an idea of how the public view their toc).

London Midland are practically Saints ahead of Southeastern!!

(30 Jun 2014, 8:36 pm)gtom wrote London Midland are practically Saints ahead of Southeastern!!

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/so...els-19211/

Just read this and some of the comments from readers/passengers.

Never knew that about the Chief Exec mind!

Quite amusing how passenger opinions don't count when the feedback is poor - but if the feedback is from OAP Conc passholders...

(30 Jun 2014, 8:48 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/so...els-19211/

Just read this and some of the comments from readers/passengers.

Never knew that about the Chief Exec mind!

Quite amusing how passenger opinions don't count when the feedback is poor - but if the feedback is from OAP Conc passholders...

You'll never get to work for Pravda with that cynical attitude my friend

(30 Jun 2014, 10:28 pm)gtom wrote You'll never get to work for Pravda with that cynical attitude my friend

Cynical? Nah, just find it beautifully ironic.

Anyway... Getting back to route suggestions - Fencehouses and Dalton Park via the broken record shop. Chronically underserved.

Slight Waggonway change 28A

Route as is from Chester Le Street then via Greenford Lane to Kibblesworth then Sainsburys Team Valley, Gold Medal then back to Sainsburys, Retail World, Team Valley (All stops) Bensham Bank, Gateshead Interchange, Tyne Bridge, John Dobson, Blackett, Eldon Sq.

Reasoning -

Since the closure of the Walk In Centre and its move to QE, there's no real need to link Saltwell Rd with Birtley/Ouston. The Crematorium is served by 21 (with a walk down) or the 69 (with change in Low Fell) The remains of Bensham Hospital are ably served by 69/53/54/29

Links to better shopping for Ouston residents and links for Chester to the Team Valley (growing importance as a shopping outlet and a retailer)

28 remains unchanged to maintain links to QE, Beamish and Birtley Medical Group (as Ouston is part of catchment area for that GP surgery)