came across this on DCC website:


Pay as you go smartcard pilot launched


Bus passengers in Durham are the first in the North East to try out new ‘Pay As You Go’ travel using a smart card instead of cash.

The North East Smart Ticketing Initiative (NESTI), a partnership of local authorities and transport operators, is piloting the technology in the latest phase of a roll-out aimed at making it easier for people to travel.

The smart travel pilot is taking place with passenger volunteers on the 40B bus operated by Stanley Travel in partnership with the Durham County Council and Durham University, for travel between Durham rail station and the university.

Cllr Neil Foster, Cabinet member for economic regeneration, said: “We are delighted to be at the forefront in testing this new technology. It should make travel on public transport even more convenient and attract more passengers.”

Harvey Emms, Chair of the NESTI partnership board, said: “The Stanley Travel pilot is an important stepping stone in making a Pay As You Go smartcard a reality across the North East.

“NESTI is working together with other local bus operators and the Nexus Metro so in the future people will be able to use a Pay As You Go smartcard to pay for their public transport journeys across the North East.”

Andrew Scott, Director of Stanley Travel, said “We are thrilled to be the first bus operator in the North East to trial Pay As You Go travel. It is an important step in modernising bus travel for the future”.

The pilot involves staff from Durham University using a NESTI Pay As You Go smartcard to pay for their bus fare, instead of using cash.

Professor Tim Burt, Dean for Environmental Sustainability added: “Durham University welcomes the opportunity to support and engage in the smartcard trial which will enable staff and students easier access to public transport. The university is committed to sustainable travel and we feel this smartcard scheme will encourage more public transport users. We look forward to the roll-out of the scheme in the near future.”

The pilot is taking place alongside a similar pilot with passengers on the Tyne and Wear Metro system.

Once these and other pilots are successfully completed, the plan is to make Pay As You Go Travel available across a wider range of local public transport operators in the North East, including bus companies Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach.

The NESTI programme was established to deliver smart ticketing that can be used on public transport operators across the region, from the Tees Valley to north Northumberland.

It has already provided grant support to make sure that around 1,000 buses in the region, as well as Metro stations, have a single technology to read smart tickets.

Stanley Travel use Ticketer smart ticket machines which were purchased with the assistance of NESTI grant funding. The pilot is the result of a partnership approach between NESTI, Durham County Council, Durham University and bus operator Stanley Travel.

The pilot users are asked to record details of their bus journeys using a travel diary and provide feedback about their experience of using the NESTI pay as you go smartcard.

The pilot will provide valuable feedback and data as to how the NESTI pay as you go product is used by bus customers.

I've split this away from the pricing thread, as NESTI really deserves it's own thread.

I'm surprised this is being launched as a DCC initiative. I thought the NESTI project would have been driven by the North East CA? I'm also a bit dubious about the trial being on the 40B only. How many people actually use this service? It's only ever carrying fresh air when I see it.

(23 Jul 2014, 7:14 pm)aureolin wrote I've split this away from the pricing thread, as NESTI really deserves it's own thread.

I'm surprised this is being launched as a DCC initiative. I thought the NESTI project would have been driven by the North East CA? I'm also a bit dubious about the trial being on the 40B only. How many people actually use this service? It's only ever carrying fresh air when I see it.

Numbers must be viable using staff from the uni alone.
With the POP trial, I am pretty sure tickets were reimbursed and a load of vouchers would be on their way as a way of thanks.
Hopefully a similar carrot/stick approach is used in this trial.

As for prices going forward when the scheme is rolled out regionwide - I hope the PAYG prices are lower than cash fares to encourage uptake.
It seems pointless rolling the project out, if it is more convenient (and the same price) paying cash.
There needs to be an incentive.

(23 Jul 2014, 7:19 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Numbers must be viable using staff from the uni alone.
With the POP trial, I am pretty sure tickets were reimbursed and a load of vouchers would be on their way as a way of thanks.
Hopefully a similar carrot/stick approach is used in this trial.

As for prices going forward when the scheme is rolled out regionwide - I hope the PAYG prices are lower than cash fares to encourage uptake.
It seems pointless rolling the project out, if it is more convenient (and the same price) paying cash.
There needs to be an incentive.

Go Ahead did these pay as you go cards years and years ago, before all these 'go and saves' and buzzfares came into play. DCC told me a few years ago that their were hoping to bring out a pass that you can use on all bus operators in the County Durham area next year, but this was years ago.

(23 Jul 2014, 7:50 pm)cbma06 wrote Go Ahead did these pay as you go cards years and years ago, before all these 'go and saves' and buzzfares came into play. DCC told me a few years ago that their were hoping to bring out a pass that you can use on all bus operators in the County Durham area next year, but this was years ago.

Indeed they did. I believe this system remained until the Key Readers were fitted to buses as i seem to remember they changed the 'Go 'n' Save' cards with Buzzfare written on them and the readers worked the same. As with most of my posts, i could be completely wrong.

(23 Jul 2014, 8:00 pm)Robert wrote Indeed they did. I believe this system remained until the Key Readers were fitted to buses as i seem to remember they changed the 'Go 'n' Save' cards with Buzzfare written on them and the readers worked the same. As with most of my posts, i could be completely wrong.

The old Wayfarer Validators that I think you're referring to didn't offer pay as you go. They just printed and validated multi journey tickets. I think what cbma06 was referring to would have been before that, though I can't remember that far back!

(23 Jul 2014, 7:19 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Numbers must be viable using staff from the uni alone.
With the POP trial, I am pretty sure tickets were reimbursed and a load of vouchers would be on their way as a way of thanks.
Hopefully a similar carrot/stick approach is used in this trial.

As for prices going forward when the scheme is rolled out regionwide - I hope the PAYG prices are lower than cash fares to encourage uptake.
It seems pointless rolling the project out, if it is more convenient (and the same price) paying cash.
There needs to be an incentive.

For an extensive test though? When we test new products, we're ideally wanting to look at thousands of lines of data to ensure we can spot any problems before it's released to production. I don't think the 40B would offer the opportunity to collect such data.

(23 Jul 2014, 7:50 pm)cbma06 wrote Go Ahead did these pay as you go cards years and years ago, before all these 'go and saves' and buzzfares came into play. DCC told me a few years ago that their were hoping to bring out a pass that you can use on all bus operators in the County Durham area next year, but this was years ago.

Did they?
How did it work? Have never heard of the scheme before now.

(23 Jul 2014, 8:18 pm)aureolin wrote For an extensive test though? When we test new products, we're ideally wanting to look at thousands of lines of data to ensure we can spot any problems before it's released to production. I don't think the 40B would offer the opportunity to collect such data.

How many thousand are trialling the metro card?
Guessing it is more than on the 40b, but if a few trials are running concurrently, then it will involve quite a few people.

(23 Jul 2014, 8:48 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Did they?
How did it work? Have never heard of the scheme before now.


How many thousand are trialling the metro card?
Guessing it is more than on the 40b, but if a few trials are running concurrently, then it will involve quite a few people.

99% sure it was when Go Ahead Northern was broken up into separate divisions (Wear Buses.VFM Buses etc...), When it was Go-Ahead Northern their was no such thing as weekly tickets etc..., only weekly tickets etc... was Busways faresaver and TWPTE Network ticketing, I never purchased goaheads tickets as I first went onto purchasing Network travel tickets and stuck to it, only time when I purchased the busways faresaver was when Go Ahead Northern was on strike. I was 15 when I first purchased a monthly all zone network travel ticket at a price of £29ish, don't know what passengers had in County Durham as their was no such week tickets.

Nexus are rolling out more beta testing, starting on 21st July.
Members of the public have been selected to try out the PAYG Pop Card - which works on Metro and a limited number of GNE and ANE services (as well as the Stanley Travel services above), within Tyne & Wear, Co Durham and Northumberland.

As with Oyster, fares are reduced when using Pop on the Metro, with daily caps put into place. A maximum of £4.40 being charged.
Bus operators aren't offering discounts as it stands, but the card can be used to buy the usual ticket.

The Pop Shop will be launched on 21st July too, with PAYG options being available.

Surprised they're pushing ahead, given that they're still having major reliability problems with the ticket machines at stations, and also the validators.

More services rolled out as part of POP PAYG trial.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/pop/payg/buses?g...HPU4%2bLnR

POP payg officially launched.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/pop-pa...y-launched

There is still a big gap though, due to the gap in bus provision.

There have been features in the media tonight, with Tyne Tees and BBC both featuring.
TWPTUG featured, with a representative citing the lack of bus provision and their lack of discount to POP payg users as an issue.

http://m.stagecoach.com/media/news-relea...01-07.aspx

Stagecoach have just issued this press release relating to smart ticketing.

(07 Jan 2016, 10:39 am)Andreos1 wrote http://m.stagecoach.com/media/news-relea...01-07.aspx

Stagecoach have just issued this press release relating to smart ticketing.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/...e-10697900

The Chronicle are running with the same story.
Curious to know the inside story behind Stagecoach (at all) and GNE (apart from the few limited services) not taking up POP mind.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/pop-pay-you-go-users-pass-2000-mark?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The number of PAYG POP Card holder passes 2000 mark, following launch late last year.

(18 Jan 2016, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/pop-pay-you-go-users-pass-2000-mark?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The number of PAYG POP Card holder passes 2000 mark, following launch late last year.

Which I think it not that many based on the numbers who use the metro on a daily basis.

(18 Jan 2016, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/pop-pay-you-go-users-pass-2000-mark?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The number of PAYG POP Card holder passes 2000 mark, following launch late last year.

(18 Jan 2016, 4:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote Which I think it not that many based on the numbers who use the metro on a daily basis.

Metro claimed that passenger numbers were up to 39,000,000, just a month before the 'Pop Pay as you Go' launch in November 2015. So without having knowledge of how many individual users that is, we'll assume that each user has made an average of 4 journeys.... that's still less than 0.02% of passengers actually using the 'Pay as you Go' technology. Which is shocking in my opinion, considering the amount of marketing they appear to have put in for it.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/metro-...39-million

Using the same assumption, and in absence of proper stats, it'd take over 150 years for 10% of the system's users to be using the card...

(18 Jan 2016, 4:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote Which I think it not that many based on the numbers who use the metro on a daily basis.

(18 Jan 2016, 5:04 pm)Adrian wrote Metro claimed that passenger numbers were up to 39,000,000, just a month before the 'Pop Pay as you Go' launch in November 2015. So without having knowledge of how many individual users that is, we'll assume that each user has made an average of 4 journeys.... that's still less than 0.02% of passengers actually using the 'Pay as you Go' technology. Which is shocking in my opinion, considering the amount of marketing they appear to have put in for it.

http://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/metro-...39-million

Using the same assumption, and in absence of proper stats, it'd take over 150 years for 10% of the system's users to be using the card...

I wouldn't say it is that bad.
1000 people per month taking up the option, on a system that already accepts annual POP cards or Network Travel tickets which have been pre-paid.
Without knowing the percentage of passengers using just those two methods, I think the 0.02% line may be a little off the mark.

I do believe the roll-out has been hindered by bus operators not taking part in the scheme.

It would be interesting to compare like for like and see how what the take-up was for other smartcards was, two months after roll-out.

(18 Jan 2016, 9:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote I wouldn't say it is that bad.
1000 people per month taking up the option, on a system that already accepts annual POP cards or Network Travel tickets which have been pre-paid.
Without knowing the percentage of passengers using just those two methods, I think the 0.02% line may be a little off the mark.

I do believe the roll-out has been hindered by bus operators not taking part in the scheme.

It would be interesting to compare like for like and see how what the take-up was for other smartcards was, two months after roll-out.

It's difficult when you have no data on unique passenger numbers, but if you compare the timescale to that of Oyster. Public rollout in Q1 or 2004, and buses are no longer accepting cash fares come Q3 2014. 

It'll be interesting to see how fast North East SmartZone is rolled out (including P&G fares), compared to the NECA scheme.

(18 Jan 2016, 9:34 pm)Adrian wrote It's difficult when you have no data on unique passenger numbers, but if you compare the timescale to that of Oyster. Public rollout in Q1 or 2004, and buses are no longer accepting cash fares come Q3 2014. 

It'll be interesting to see how fast North East SmartZone is rolled out (including P&G fares), compared to the NECA scheme.

I wonder how many people end up with two cards?
POP for Metro, ANE and a couple of GNE services and another for bus trips?

A total farce and yet another example of how the deregulated, fragmented system doesn't benefit the passenger. A rival smartcard offer sums it all up.
I feel too much money has been spent, (both from public and private pots) for one of the systems to pull out now.

London worked so well, due to the integrated setup down there.
I would have been over the moon at POP being even half as quick/successful under a QCS scheme.

(18 Jan 2016, 9:42 pm)Andreos1 wrote I wonder how many people end up with two cards?
POP for Metro, ANE and a couple of GNE services and another for bus trips?

A total farce and yet another example of how the deregulated, fragmented system doesn't benefit the passenger. A rival smartcard offer sums it all up.
I feel too much money has been spent, (both from public and private pots) for one of the systems to pull out now.

London worked so well, due to the integrated setup down there.
I would have been over the moon at POP being even half as quick/successful under a QCS scheme.

But the tech is the same? If I set a reader into listen mode, I could register my GNE key card or POP card to unlock doors, use pull printing systems, and all sorts. You have to ask yourself why Nexus haven't added software to the TVMs, that would allow users to register a generic card against their POP account? All it's looking for is a unique ID.

Having said that, I did have some issues when applying for a Brighton & Hove keycard, knowing that I'd need a weekly ticket when down there a few years ago. The database recognised me as a user from another opco, so I was unable to 're-register'. I was also unable to have my GNE card added to the B&H system, despite it not being what I'd envisage a technically difficult process.

There should have been investment in TVM for bus stations, with Nexus acting as a reseller for the three operators, as well as selling Network One and Metro tickets.

I agree the system should have been more linked up, but I don't think that any one party can have the finger pointed at them here.

(18 Jan 2016, 9:49 pm)Adrian wrote But the tech is the same? If I set a reader into listen mode, I could register my GNE key card or POP card to unlock doors, use pull printing systems, and all sorts. You have to ask yourself why Nexus haven't added software to the TVMs, that would allow users to register a generic card against their POP account? All it's looking for is a unique ID.

Having said that, I did have some issues when applying for a Brighton & Hove keycard, knowing that I'd need a weekly ticket when down there a few years ago. The database recognised me as a user from another opco, so I was unable to 're-register'. I was also unable to have my GNE card added to the B&H system, despite it not being what I'd envisage a technically difficult process.

There should have been investment in TVM for bus stations, with Nexus acting as a reseller for the three operators, as well as selling Network One and Metro tickets.

I agree the system should have been more linked up, but I don't think that any one party can have the finger pointed at them here.

Surely passengers aren't bothered about the tech?
They just want a card that they can use on whatever form of transport they ise and with whichever operator/s that may be.

From the outside looking in, we are no further forward than we were 5 years ago and we still see people using paper tickets and paper passes.
Despite all the money that has been spent.

(18 Jan 2016, 10:05 pm)Andreos1 wrote Surely passengers aren't bothered about the tech?
They just want a card that they can use on whatever form of transport they ise and with whichever operator/s that may be.

From the outside looking in, we are no further forward than we were 5 years ago and we still see people using paper tickets and paper passes.
Despite all the money that has been spent.

If they just want a single card, then they must be bothered about the tech in one form or another then... I'd prefer to have one card, not three. It makes you wonder why Nexus didn't make allowances for a card that had already been on the market for 4 years? 

I'd say we're a lot further forward. One operator has ceased to sell monthly tickets on a bus, and I can see weekly tickets going the journey in the not too distant future. I agree we're miles behind on P&G technology though.

Yeah, the various forms of smartcard in the northeast (pop, key, stagecoachsmart, arriva connect) are all ITSO compliant, so products could be inter loadedacross the platform. For all oyster is held us an example of best practise, I don't believe it's ITSO compliant?

(19 Jan 2016, 1:24 pm)JakeSavage wrote Yeah, the various forms of smartcard in the northeast (pop, key, stagecoachsmart, arriva connect) are all ITSO compliant, so products could be inter loadedacross the platform. For all oyster is held us an example of best practise, I don't believe it's ITSO compliant?

I don't think that the present form of Oyster card is ITSO compliant, but last I read is that work was underway to accept ITSO compliant smartcards in the future?

(18 Jan 2016, 10:13 pm)Adrian wrote
If they just want a single card, then they must be bothered about the tech in one form or another then... I'd prefer to have one card, not three. It makes you wonder why Nexus didn't make allowances for a card that had already been on the market for 4 years? 

I'd say we're a lot further forward. One operator has ceased to sell monthly tickets on a bus, and I can see weekly tickets going the journey in the not too distant future. I agree we're miles behind on P&G technology though.

I bet if you did a straw poll of members on here, they couldn't even tell you what TVM or Itso meant.
Not sure ordinary members of the public would either.
I think that tells you they aren't interested in the technology. It does for me.

(19 Jan 2016, 1:24 pm)JakeSavage wrote Yeah, the various forms of smartcard in the northeast (pop, key, stagecoachsmart, arriva connect) are all ITSO compliant, so products could be inter loadedacross the platform. For all oyster is held us an example of best practise, I don't believe it's ITSO compliant?

With politics meaning they aren't interloaded?

Nope - you can load a stagecoach megarider on a go ahead card, etc, precisely because it's ITSO compliant.

Nexus pop has its own difficulties mind...

Might be worth mentioning that Arriva will soon be introducing smartcards on services in East Cleveland - from 20th March apparently. It will be interesting to see what the take up is like.

Trying Sunderland smart zone this week for the first time!