(10 Aug 2013, 10:53 am)GuyParkRoyal wrote More service reductions and GNE have the cheek to say (on simplygo.com) that changes to the 21 are “minor changes”.
GNE seem to be coming up with so called minor changes every couple of months which are really reductions in early morning, evening and weekend services. I was against quality contracts but this sort of behaviour from GNE has convinced me that quality contracts are needed to stop this erosion of services. No doubt the other GNE services that are included in the list of minor changes will see a reduction in the number of runs. My interpretation of minor changes is timing changes to improve performance measures or inter-workings.
The withdrawal of the early 21 from Durham should be seen by Arriva as an opportunity to continue to build business on the X2 by introducing an earlier first run from Durham to Newcastle. GNE have timed this very badly just when Arriva have brought in weekly tickets on the X2 offering a saving of 10% compared to the Angel Saver.

I agree, I'm not massively in favour of QC purely on the reliability of Nexus but dismissing the changes as 'e are making some changes to the times of a small number of journeys on services in County Durham and North Tyneside to improve reliability or which few passengers use'

You can guarantee if they'd added a 5.45 journey they'd trumpeting it to the high heaven.

Staying with service changes, when the 24 was altered and finished in Gateshead, the Facebook wall was full of posts from Harlow Green and parts of Wrekenton and Low Fell complaining about the change for a good week. Then it changed to the reliability of the 24 (of which the number 1 will surely be worse?!)

Then shock horror, GNE find people actually wanted the service to Newcastle! They had to see this coming? It's almost like route changes are done in the most cynical way to see what they can get away with before triumphantly telling us 'we listened to 8,000'

Well, you didn't. If you'd listened to 8,000 then you'd never have made the changes to Angel 24 in the first place!

ps 4865 is quite frankly the most uncomfortable, dirty, rattling piece of junk I've ever had the pleasure of riding

I didn't see 3964 today but I saw all of the others mentioned that were covering for B9s on the X10. It really is quite worrying when 2+ B9s are VOR daily. Four being off on one day is really quite disgusting.

I seem to recall mentioning a few months ago that the B9 isn't built for such a demanding service as the X10, to which most people disagreed and said that seeing 2 B9s VOR daily isn't that bad and it is to be expected with monthly inspections of the vehicles etc. Has anyone had a change of heart, now that only one B9 was out on X10s today?

I didn't see 3964 today but I saw all of the others mentioned that were covering for B9s on the X10. It really is quite worrying when 2+ B9s are VOR daily. Four being off on one day is really quite disgusting.

I seem to recall mentioning a few months ago that the B9 isn't built for such a demanding service as the X10, to which most people disagreed and said that seeing 2 B9s VOR daily isn't that bad and it is to be expected with monthly inspections of the vehicles etc. Has anyone had a change of heart, now that only one B9 was out on X10s today?

(10 Aug 2013, 3:45 pm)Daniel wrote I didn't see 3964 today but I saw all of the others mentioned that were covering for B9s on the X10. It really is quite worrying when 2+ B9s are VOR daily. Four being off on one day is really quite disgusting.

I seem to recall mentioning a few months ago that the B9 isn't built for such a demanding service as the X10, to which most people disagreed and said that seeing 2 B9s VOR daily isn't that bad and it is to be expected with monthly inspections of the vehicles etc. Has anyone had a change of heart, now that only one B9 was out on X10s today?

If I was running the company, I'd be asking serious questions at why buses less than a year old are becoming unreliable already. They should never be off the road unless its planned downtime. Oh and before anyone mentions the amount of miles they do - it's a bus. It should be designed to cope with that. You wouldn't buy a brand new house and expect it to start falling apart after a year.

If there were 4 other (albeit one is the branded spare) vehicles on there then there should have been 2 B9s out but when they're all at/approaching 200k miles at 1.5 years old then it's not surprising they're having issues. Having said that, I am a big fan of B9s but even I said at the time that buses aren't built for the job they want them to do. They should have ordered coaches to do what they want them to do.

4914 has turned up for the X7 thankfully!

I'm assuming the X9/10 is profitable? Or at the least 10 is?

I've always thought it should be treated as an Oxford Tube style service





Wouldn't necessarily have to be as large a vehicle as that or even brand new but it would certainly do a better job than B9's imo

You'd assume so, but today I have been on X10s where only two fare paying passengers were present - the other three or so being concessionary pass holders. It shocks me that the X7 has done better than the TTX today.
It seems that on weekdays and peak times it is brilliant and can certainly justify a coach being used as I previously suggested, but it is the increased running costs for the rest of the time which couldn't justify such vehicles being used.

Ten minutes ago, Middlesbrough said goodbye to the OK1, with 5232 doing the honours on its final run to Crook from Middlesbrough. 5231 should be the final run from Darlington as I said earlier today.

Yes at peak times the X9/X10 is massively profitable, but it is very much used heavily from Teesside towards Tyneside and they need to try and grow the market in the opposite direction! I used the 0633 from Stockton the other day and leaving Norton there was around 20-30 people on it which I was quite impressed with. I caught the 1600 home from Newcastle and there was no spare seats after Gateshead.... The morning northbound journeys and afternoon southbound journeys are full. It is pretty outstanding considering until a few years ago it was just the hourly X10, the X9 has grown from nowhere but taken some of the pressure off the X10 which regularly used to arrive with standing passengers into Newcastle.

In my opinion the runs that are being withdrawn only carry a very few passengers or non at all, so it makes better sense to withdraw than run a bus for 1-3 passengers.

Arriva wont put an earlier journey on the X2 simply since they've dropped the day/weekly prices the travelling public at peak times has not increased, i caught the X2 got to gateshead about 8.50 and including me there was only 4 passengers on, suffers the same problems as gne OK1 in darlo & boro no connecting services and 10 returns on 21/X21 to 2 on X2.

There was a Fab56 on the X35 when I was at Peterlee. Can't remember if it has been noted or not.

Fab56 4934 was at Park Lane around 10 mins ago having broken down at a stand... Let's hope she comes back to life and it's not another Alpha job back to the depot?

Finally, 4914 remained on the X7 back to Peterlee from Sunderland. Strong possibility she will be on loan to Peterlee again tomorrow, though could be replaced at Sunderland with a "Wear Tees Xpress" example of course!

(10 Aug 2013, 4:29 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes at peak times the X9/X10 is massively profitable, but it is very much used heavily from Teesside towards Tyneside and they need to try and grow the market in the opposite direction! I used the 0633 from Stockton the other day and leaving Norton there was around 20-30 people on it which I was quite impressed with. I caught the 1600 home from Newcastle and there was no spare seats after Gateshead.... The morning northbound journeys and afternoon southbound journeys are full. It is pretty outstanding considering until a few years ago it was just the hourly X10, the X9 has grown from nowhere but taken some of the pressure off the X10 which regularly used to arrive with standing passengers into Newcastle.

I'd be curious to know how the early journeys that they have to run on the X9/X10 in order to get to Middlesbrough from the depot perform in terms of passenger numbers. For example, the 0510 X10 from Gateshead to Middlesbrough I can imagine running totally empty.

10/08/13 Odd Workings

Sunderland Connect 628 on the X36
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9478636827/

Loop 5225 on the 58
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9478636799/

3964 on the X10 Which broke down just after the photo was taken and was replaced by 3833, which I attempted to get photo of before realising I had knocked my camera onto the VGA so I missed it
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9481430056/

5251 is in Service after Repaint for Coaster, and is seen here on the Red Kite 46
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalarkey/9478636405/

Apologies for poor image quality, I was testing out the MultiShot Feature on my Camera today, which on the screen of the camera looked good, compared to what it does on a Computer Screen, safe to say I won't be using this feature again. As you'll notice 3964/5225 are much better than the other photos as I didn't use MultiShot.

Fab56 4942 out on 42s today - begs the question, were there actually any on the 56 today?!

(10 Aug 2013, 6:36 pm)big mac wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 4:29 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes at peak times the X9/X10 is massively profitable, but it is very much used heavily from Teesside towards Tyneside and they need to try and grow the market in the opposite direction! I used the 0633 from Stockton the other day and leaving Norton there was around 20-30 people on it which I was quite impressed with. I caught the 1600 home from Newcastle and there was no spare seats after Gateshead.... The morning northbound journeys and afternoon southbound journeys are full. It is pretty outstanding considering until a few years ago it was just the hourly X10, the X9 has grown from nowhere but taken some of the pressure off the X10 which regularly used to arrive with standing passengers into Newcastle.

I'd be curious to know how the early journeys that they have to run on the X9/X10 in order to get to Middlesbrough from the depot perform in terms of passenger numbers. For example, the 0510 X10 from Gateshead to Middlesbrough I can imagine running totally empty.

I've seen them arriving into Middlesbrough before, the 0510 generally brings in 3 or 4 people, the X9 behind it can often be empty, sometimes has 1 or 2 on.

(10 Aug 2013, 4:07 pm)gtomlinson wrote I'm assuming the X9/10 is profitable? Or at the least 10 is?

I've always thought it should be treated as an Oxford Tube style service





Wouldn't necessarily have to be as large a vehicle as that or even brand new but it would certainly do a better job than B9's imo

I have wondered that too, but the only logical conclusion is the value for money they get from the vehicle over the lifetime.

If GNE ordered a handful of those for the X9/X10, where would they end up when they are cascaded amongst the fleet at the end of their TTX life?
Can you imagine one of those working a 24 around Harlow Green?

(10 Aug 2013, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote Can you imagine one of those working a 24 around Harlow Green?

I'm sure Trent Chipchase wouldn't mind

(10 Aug 2013, 8:14 pm)BJ10VUS wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote Can you imagine one of those working a 24 around Harlow Green?

I'm sure Trent Chipchase wouldn't mind

Oh god, imagine hes moaning when he finds out the 24/24A is getting replaced by the 1/1A

(10 Aug 2013, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote at the end of their TTX life?

What about during their TTX life? We all know what Gateshead are like when it comes to the TTX allocations, whether they're feeling poorly or not

(10 Aug 2013, 8:17 pm)Michael wrote Oh god, imagine hes moaning when he finds out the 24/24A is getting replaced by the 1/1A

I'll try to avoid the GNE Facebook page until well after the changes

I think in regards to the changes, I think they should have just continued the 24 in to Newcastle, like it used to when it first started, and had 'Coaster' through fares for anyone travelling to places like Wallsend, Whitley Bay and Tynemouth on the 1.

(10 Aug 2013, 8:20 pm)Daniel wrote What about during their TTX life? We all know what Gateshead are like when it comes to the TTX allocations, whether they're feeling poorly or not

Oh lord, one of those on the 27!

It would be easier to lease just like Megabus and NX operators do. That way they can be replaced after 5-6 years operation after clocking up a million miles with no issues of where else to put them!

(10 Aug 2013, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 4:07 pm)gtomlinson wrote I'm assuming the X9/10 is profitable? Or at the least 10 is?

I've always thought it should be treated as an Oxford Tube style service





Wouldn't necessarily have to be as large a vehicle as that or even brand new but it would certainly do a better job than B9's imo

I have wondered that too, but the only logical conclusion is the value for money they get from the vehicle over the lifetime.

If GNE ordered a handful of those for the X9/X10, where would they end up when they are cascaded amongst the fleet at the end of their TTX life?
Can you imagine one of those working a 24 around Harlow Green?

Although it does seem the TTX suffers reliability wise due to the B9's always being off the road, Think about the amount of Mileage one of them must do on the X9/X10 Per Week. And as we know there are 2 off the road atm awaiting repair after being involved in traffic collisions I believe. But despite that I think they were/are the perfect buy for the route. I've certainly had no problems reliability wise the few times I have used the Service. Really can't why people are complaining about the B9's.

Take the B9 Engine for example, exact same engine you'd find in a National Express Caetano Levante or a Plaxton Elite Coach and plus GNE need to cater for those who Elderly/Disabled or a Young in a Pushchair, so bus has to be low floor. Hence why they bought these in the first place as they have to meet Passenger Requirements.

I hardly think a Tri-Axle Coach would be suitable, especially when the X9/X10 serves Eldon Square, Imagine one of them doing the U-Turn at the bottom of the Bus Station, Then Reversing off the Stand, and then attempting to exit the Bus Station with oncoming traffic coming towards the Bus. It would be a Disaster.

gtomlinson did say that they needn't be as big as the examples he gave, but a second hand low-floor coach isn't an irrational suggestion.
Debating whether or not I prefer Scott's idea even more of leasing the coaches instead - I think I do...

We all know nothing will come of this discussion, but it's a point of discussion at the end of the day which is quite interesting in my eyes. 6043/44 were out today, and another B9 joined them later in the day (I don't know which vehicle it replaced - though rough timings would suggest 4949 - but it was powering down the A19 looking fit and healthy).

Adam, think if you were a customer today. 1/3 chance of receiving a B9 with the advertised WiFi and plug sockets... I'd be well peeved if I didn't get the B9, but got 4949 instead. If I was a mother with a pram, I'd be even more irritated by 3833.

(10 Aug 2013, 9:00 pm)Daniel wrote gtomlinson did say that they needn't be as big as the examples he gave, but a second hand low-floor coach isn't an irrational suggestion.
Debating whether or not I prefer Scott's idea even more of leasing the coaches instead - I think I do...

We all know nothing will come of this discussion, but it's a point of discussion at the end of the day which is quite interesting in my eyes. 6043/44 were out today, and another B9 joined them later in the day (I don't know which vehicle it replaced - though rough timings would suggest 4949 - but it was powering down the A19 looking fit and healthy).

Adam, think if you were a customer today. 1/3 chance of receiving a B9 with the advertised WiFi and plug sockets... I'd be well peeved if I didn't get the B9, but got 4949 instead. If I was a mother with a pram, I'd be even more irritated by 3833.

Mum with pram would be peeved regardless - TTX is the only route where pushchairs have to be folded regardless of whether there's a wheelchair on or not.

Adam, think if you were a customer today. 1/3 chance of receiving a B9 with the advertised WiFi and plug sockets... I'd be well peeved if I didn't get the B9, but got 4949 instead. If I was a mother with a pram, I'd be even more irritated by 3833.
[/quote]

I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

(10 Aug 2013, 9:14 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

You weren't a customer from Newcastle to Middlesbrough though, like some passengers are. You hardly benefit from a 15 minute charge of your camera/phone on the X10. Over an hour, you can benefit greatly from it.
I've frequently used the service from A to B, and often have relied on a B9 turning up so that I could charge my phone which had died earlier in the day to get in touch with someone. I only do that if I know the allocations which admittedly normal passengers wouldn't, but I should be able to be fairly confident in knowing that I'll have the advertised benefits for using the service - especially when the service can be so costly when you're >18 and travelling the full length of the service on multiple occasions.

The vehicle has to be tachoed too, which is a big factor of determining a suitable replacement for a defective B9.

(10 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:14 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

You weren't a customer from Newcastle to Middlesbrough though, like some passengers are. You hardly benefit from a 15 minute charge of your camera/phone on the X10. Over an hour, you can benefit greatly from it.
I've frequently used the service from A to B, and often have relied on a B9 turning up so that I could charge my phone which had died earlier in the day to get in touch with someone. I only do that if I know the allocations which admittedly normal passengers wouldn't, but I should be able to be fairly confident in knowing that I'll have the advertised benefits for using the service - especially when the service can be so costly when you're >18 and travelling the full length of the service on multiple occasions.

The vehicle has to be tachoed too, which is a big factor of determining a suitable replacement for a defective B9.

I have done from Heworth to M'Boro a few times so I the same have benefited in the past. Have no reason to go all the way to Newcastle to catch it when I can go to Heworth on the M1 From Washington.

(10 Aug 2013, 9:27 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:14 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

You weren't a customer from Newcastle to Middlesbrough though, like some passengers are. You hardly benefit from a 15 minute charge of your camera/phone on the X10. Over an hour, you can benefit greatly from it.
I've frequently used the service from A to B, and often have relied on a B9 turning up so that I could charge my phone which had died earlier in the day to get in touch with someone. I only do that if I know the allocations which admittedly normal passengers wouldn't, but I should be able to be fairly confident in knowing that I'll have the advertised benefits for using the service - especially when the service can be so costly when you're >18 and travelling the full length of the service on multiple occasions.

The vehicle has to be tachoed too, which is a big factor of determining a suitable replacement for a defective B9.

I have done from Heworth to M'Boro a few times so I the same have benefited in the past. Have no reason to go all the way to Newcastle to catch it when I can go to Heworth on the M1 From Washington.

Okay, so say you had 4949 today which was incredibly cramped rather than the usual B9 and 3833/3863/3864 was the alternative... Would you be particularly happy if you were using the service thinking you'd receive WiFi and plug sockets? No you wouldn't!

(10 Aug 2013, 9:30 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:27 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:14 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

You weren't a customer from Newcastle to Middlesbrough though, like some passengers are. You hardly benefit from a 15 minute charge of your camera/phone on the X10. Over an hour, you can benefit greatly from it.
I've frequently used the service from A to B, and often have relied on a B9 turning up so that I could charge my phone which had died earlier in the day to get in touch with someone. I only do that if I know the allocations which admittedly normal passengers wouldn't, but I should be able to be fairly confident in knowing that I'll have the advertised benefits for using the service - especially when the service can be so costly when you're >18 and travelling the full length of the service on multiple occasions.

The vehicle has to be tachoed too, which is a big factor of determining a suitable replacement for a defective B9.

I have done from Heworth to M'Boro a few times so I the same have benefited in the past. Have no reason to go all the way to Newcastle to catch it when I can go to Heworth on the M1 From Washington.

Okay, so say you had 4949 today which was incredibly cramped rather than the usual B9 and 3833/3863/3864 was the alternative... Would you be particularly happy if you were using the service thinking you'd receive WiFi and plug sockets? No you wouldn't!

No I wouldn't to be honest, although I don't use my phone that often I wouldn't of minded having a trip on 3833 on the X10 though. I think of other services which have this same problem i.e. X30/X31/X70/X71, They always seem to have an Olympian on them, I know they don't have Wifi but even so, passengers must be just as sick as those on the X9/X10.

(10 Aug 2013, 9:41 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:30 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:27 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm)Daniel wrote

(10 Aug 2013, 9:14 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I actually was Today going from Newcastle to Heworth, and I did have the comfort of a B9 with Wifi.

As for 3833 that was the only bus other than MPD 564 available at the time when 3964 broke down, and both were only parked around the corner on the layover, not sure on what was in the Depot other than the other 2 B9's which are VOR. Most likely a Citaro Artic would of been the replacement otherwise. Although Passengers may complain about the bus not being low floor, The problem was solved immediately compared to in the past when they've had to wait for the Next one to arrive.

You weren't a customer from Newcastle to Middlesbrough though, like some passengers are. You hardly benefit from a 15 minute charge of your camera/phone on the X10. Over an hour, you can benefit greatly from it.
I've frequently used the service from A to B, and often have relied on a B9 turning up so that I could charge my phone which had died earlier in the day to get in touch with someone. I only do that if I know the allocations which admittedly normal passengers wouldn't, but I should be able to be fairly confident in knowing that I'll have the advertised benefits for using the service - especially when the service can be so costly when you're >18 and travelling the full length of the service on multiple occasions.

The vehicle has to be tachoed too, which is a big factor of determining a suitable replacement for a defective B9.

I have done from Heworth to M'Boro a few times so I the same have benefited in the past. Have no reason to go all the way to Newcastle to catch it when I can go to Heworth on the M1 From Washington.

Okay, so say you had 4949 today which was incredibly cramped rather than the usual B9 and 3833/3863/3864 was the alternative... Would you be particularly happy if you were using the service thinking you'd receive WiFi and plug sockets? No you wouldn't!

No I wouldn't to be honest, although I don't use my phone that often I wouldn't of minded having a trip on 3833 on the X10 though. I think of other services which have this same problem i.e. X30/X31/X70/X71, They always seem to have an Olympian on them, I know they don't have Wifi but even so, passengers must be just as sick as those on the X9/X10.

Passengers on the services you mentioned above don't have the promise of WiFi, plug sockets and 'luxury headrests' though. I'm positive we've all seen the numerous complaints made about the services you mentioned for either a) not being low floor or b) not having a space for a wheelchair/pushchair (whatever).
The X9/X10 comes under the "Gold Standard" policy, and customers really shouldn't have to expect a big old Olympian coming along to give them their journey rather than the bus with all of the fancy features. From an enthusiast point of view, I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't mind having the Oly on there, but from a customer's point of view needing the things that the services are advertised with... We'd think differently.