(15 Apr 2015, 7:45 pm)Malarkey wrote Think it would pick up some Passengers around Murton/Dalton Park, obviously if the Service and the Links it provides were Promoted by Arriva then it may help the Service grow.

As for the X23, I wasnt sure which way to have it go into Durham, but thought it would be quicker going via the A1 rather the A167 and it following the 7 too much, And good point regarding the GNEX21 actually.

I just did a quick search on Google Maps from Eden Arm's Hotel (Rushyford) and it came back with 18 minutes for both routes. In fairness if it misses Chilton and Ferryhill out it wouldn't stop much, it would only really stop at Croxdale and around the Nevilles Cross area en-route to Durham.

Not sure how many people in the Murton area would go to Darlington although you may get a few from the other places en-route heading to Sunderland.

(12 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm)tyresmoke wrote How would you get drivers to Morpeth for reliefs on service 33? This is exactly why the whole lot is interworked at present

Ashington drivers on the X14/33/57A change at Morpeth. The Blyth ones I believe change at Cramlington.

(15 Apr 2015, 7:55 pm)cbma06 wrote ive done the 21 route before from Peterlee and never again, next time I get the 22 or 24 to Durham and board service 7.

Might I ask why you didn't like the 21 route so much?

I don't mind the 21 route so much as it makes a change to doing the 7 route all the time and is slightly faster at getting to Sunderland than changing to the 20/20A at Durham.

(15 Apr 2015, 8:00 pm)Jimmi wrote Might I ask why you didn't like the 21 route so much?

I don't mind the 21 route so much as it makes a change to doing the 7 route all the time and is slightly faster at getting to Sunderland than changing to the 20/20A at Durham.

Takes far too long to get from Sunderland to Darlington - but as you say, faster than any of the alternative buses.

(15 Apr 2015, 8:04 pm)Dan wrote Takes far too long to get from Sunderland to Darlington - but as you say, faster than any of the alternative buses.

I'd doubt there would be much call for an express service linking Darlington and Sunderland together.

(15 Apr 2015, 8:13 pm)Jimmi wrote I'd doubt there would be much call for an express service linking Darlington and Sunderland together.

I can only agree. Perhaps if there was some through traffic on the current 21 to the X21, I'd disagree, but based on my observations, instances of this occurring are minimal.

(15 Apr 2015, 8:16 pm)Dan wrote I can only agree. Perhaps if there was some through traffic on the current 21 to the X21, I'd disagree, but based on my observations, instances of this occurring are minimal.

There isn't much through traffic on the 21/X21 in my experience either and most times the through traffic I've seen has been from Peterlee, Pennine Drive area.

Still wish they'd shove the correct destination on when heading to Peterlee as the 21 as just "Peterlee" doesn't give any indication that the bus is continuing to Sunderland.

There is a display on the screens that says peterlee for Sunderland but not many people use it the 12:15 ex Darlington left displaying it

Either interworking with a Hartlepool service or something in Stockton, I wonder if the following would be worth trying.

Stockton - North Tees Hosp - Sedgefield - Wynyard - Billingham - Greatham - Hartlepool.

(05 May 2015, 10:27 am)Andreos1 wrote Either interworking with a Hartlepool service or something in Stockton, I wonder if the following would be worth trying.

Stockton - North Tees Hosp - Sedgefield - Wynyard - Billingham - Greatham - Hartlepool.

Don't really know the areas in question but I remember Arriva used to run the 33 Ferryhill - Hartlepool (via Bishop Middleham, Fishburn - twice , Sedgefield and Trimdon and I don't think it picked up much, the Trimdon Village - Hartlepool section was replaced by the 57A with Scarlet Band taking over the 33 between Ferryhill and Sedgefield.

The 33 also interworked with the 8A Ferryhill - Darlington.

(05 May 2015, 11:03 am)Jimmi wrote Don't really know the areas in question but I remember Arriva used to run the 33 Ferryhill - Hartlepool (via Bishop Middleham, Fishburn - twice , Sedgefield and Trimdon and I don't think it picked up much, the Trimdon Village - Hartlepool section was replaced by the 57A with Scarlet Band taking over the 33 between Ferryhill and Sedgefield.

The 33 also interworked with the 8A Ferryhill - Darlington.

With going via Wynyard, it wouldn't serve the Trimdons etc. They have overkill as it is.
This would go via the A689 between Sedgefield and Hartlepool.

With Hartlepool hospital on seemingly gradual shutdown and services being moved to North Tees, I think this could work.
Passengers travelling locally could add to numbers and for those waiting for an X12 (or whatever number it is going by these days), this could help that.
There is also the business park on the A19 junction, that could be a peak diversion.

(05 May 2015, 11:19 am)Andreos1 wrote With going via Wynyard, it wouldn't serve the Trimdons etc. They have overkill as it is.
This would go via the A689 between Sedgefield and Hartlepool.

With Hartlepool hospital on seemingly gradual shutdown and services being moved to North Tees, I think this could work.
Passengers travelling locally could add to numbers and for those waiting for an X12 (or whatever number it is going by these days), this could help that.
There is also the business park on the A19 junction, that could be a peak diversion.

I'm not sure there'd be a lot of money in it, Sedgefield-Hartlepool was always tendered when Arriva ran it as the 33, now runs between Sedgefield and Ferryhill only of course (operated by Scarlet Band).
As for trips between the hospitals - the NHS trust currently run a roughly half hourly shuttle service between the two, whether they would be willing to convert this into funding towards a commercial bus service I'm not so sure, especially given journey times would increase.

Wonder if Arriva could extend one 6 per hour to Barnard Castle? Would be good to have a direct link from Durham!

(10 May 2015, 9:27 pm)Tom wrote Wonder if Arriva could extend one 6 per hour to Barnard Castle? Would be good to have a direct link from Durham!

Can't see this happening as Arriva previously ran the 85 between Bishop Auckland and Barnard Castle via Cockfield every 2 hours along with the 84 Bishop Auckland to Darlington via Cockfield every 2 hours and I think there was the 85 between Bishop Auckland and Cockfield every hour meaning a bus between Bishop Auckland - Cockfield every 30 minutes.

Arriva withdrew the 84/85 beyond Cockfield (84/85 withdrawn and 6 was extended to Cockfield) and also the 95/96 between Barnard Castle and Middleton-In-Teessdale in January 2012 due to low passenger numbers with Durham County Council stepping in to replace these services after petitions from people in Teesdale against the withdrawal of these services. Scarlet Band were given the contracts for these replacement services.

The current Scarlet Band 85 is actually commercially operated between Bishop Auckland and Cockfield.

(10 May 2015, 9:40 pm)Jimmi wrote Can't see this happening as Arriva previously ran the 85 between Bishop Auckland and Barnard Castle via Cockfield every 2 hours along with the 84 Bishop Auckland to Darlington via Cockfield every 2 hours and I think there was the 85 between Bishop Auckland and Cockfield every hour meaning a bus between Bishop Auckland - Cockfield every 30 minutes.

Arriva withdrew the 84/85 beyond Cockfield (84/85 withdrawn and 6 was extended to Cockfield) and also the 95/96 between Barnard Castle and Middleton-In-Teessdale in January 2012 due to low passenger numbers with Durham County Council stepping in to replace these services after petitions from people in Teesdale against the withdrawal of these services. Scarlet Band were given the contracts for these replacement services.

The current Scarlet Band 85 is actually commercially operated between Bishop Auckland and Cockfield.

Ah right I never realised that. 

How do the X75/X76 do?

(11 May 2015, 7:03 am)Tom wrote Ah right I never realised that. 

How do the X75/X76 do?

I'm not really sure as I almost never use the 75/76.

Also the 75/76 are still on the long term diversion route due to the landslip at Calbury so because the service can't serve it's normal route that will be having an affect on passenger numbers. 75/76 (X75/X76) Should be returning to their usual routes on Sunday 24th May along with Hodgsons service 70.

Cockfield-Barnard Castle route when Arriva operated it hardly ever saw more than a handful of passengers, I normally had the top deck to myself.

(11 May 2015, 11:59 am)John_R wrote Cockfield-Barnard Castle route when Arriva operated it hardly ever saw more than a handful of passengers, I normally had the top deck to myself.

Was pretty much the same with the 84 between Cockfield and Darlington, often a small handful downstairs and the odd younger passenger upstairs everytime I used the 84 so wasn't that surprised Arriva dropped the 84/85 beyond Cockfield.

I used to like the 84, was a nice little route and for the last few months of the service it was often a Volvo Olympian [emoji2]

(05 May 2015, 4:54 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'm not sure there'd be a lot of money in it, Sedgefield-Hartlepool was always tendered when Arriva ran it as the 33, now runs between Sedgefield and Ferryhill only of course (operated by Scarlet Band).
As for trips between the hospitals - the NHS trust currently run a roughly half hourly shuttle service between the two, whether they would be willing to convert this into funding towards a commercial bus service I'm not so sure, especially given journey times would increase.

Any idea when the new school is going to be built at Wynyard?
That was also one of the methods behind my madness.

Not sure if this is ANE or Northumberland Council related, but currently the X22 runs along Schalksmuhle Road in Bedlington, that has no stops along it. Would it be worthwhile introducing a stop, especially as the only supermarket in the town, now Tesco closed, lies on there?

Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

(01 Jun 2015, 9:24 am)Racer_Experience wrote Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

It won't be Max or Sapphire - a new brand will have to be agreed with Stagecoach.

(01 Jun 2015, 9:24 am)Racer_Experience wrote Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

Yes! (Although I may be slightly biased.... )

Can't see 185 lasting much longer, to be honest I wasn't expecting it to last as long as it has now!
It would be great to have it under decker operation too (even a mix of single and double like the 7) even if a few changes would have to be made, such as:

685A/85A- Single Deck operation - 1 bus every 2 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - Brighton Grove - General Hospital - Denton Burn - fast (A69) to Heddon & Horsley - Corbridge (back roads from Styford roundabout) - fast (A69) to Hexham Rail Station - Hexham Bus Station - Haydon Bridge - fast (A69) to Haltwhistle Town Centre - Brampton (either Moot Hall [as currently] or on Front Street) - Brampton Townfoot Ind Estate - fast (A689) to Carlisle, Brampton Road - Carlisle Bus Station via Eden Bridges and Hardwicke Circus.

685B/85B - Double Deck operation - 1 bus every 2 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - West Road - General Hospital - Denton Burn - Lemington Road Ends - Throckley - Heddon & Horsley - Corbridge Hill Street (fast on A69 past Styford roundabout) - Dilston - Hexham Bus Station - fast (A69) to Bardon Mill & Henshaw - *usage dependent* back roads to Haltwhistle via Melkridge - Brampton Town Centre - Warwick Bridge - Carlisle via Warwick Road (as currently).

X85 - Double Deck operation - peak times or 1 bus every 3-4 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - A167 (around the top) - *traffic dependent* A191 to Denton or A167 to A1 junction - non-stop to Corbridge, Hill Street (via A69) and around Corbridge on Watling Street - non-stop to Hexham, Rail Station (via A69) - Hexham Bus Station.
One or two buses per day could then continue to Carlisle as follows:
Hexham Bus Station - Hexham Rail Station - non-stop (A69) to Haltwhistle, Rail Station - non-stop (via Brampton Bypass [A69]) to Carlisle, Bus Station via A689, Brampton Road and Eden Bridges.

185s could be formed of a smaller-sized vehicle which serves the current route:
Haltwhistle, Rail Station - Military Road - (Summer Only) Walltown Quarry - Greenhead - Longbyre - Gilsland - Low Row - Brampton Town Centre - Warwick Bridge - Carlisle.


Notes:
685A and X85 using the A689 and Brampton Road will be beneficial as not only does it have the horrible traffic jams that Warwick Road does (the current route) but both services can also serve Carlisle Airport which is currently under construction to open in the next year or two (this could be used as a great marketing tool if advertised as no railway will run direct to the airport for a good while).

I chose double deckers for 685B as they do not serve Styford Roundabout - Corbridge via the road with lots of low-hanging trees (imo the only restriction to decker usage on 85?)
With the 'leapfrog' method also of alternate services serving alternate places this mitigates against long journey times, however some places lose their hourly service to be 2-hourly.

185 must be formed from 685A vehicles due to the general unsuitability of deckers on this route (most notably a low bridge at Gilsland)

I chose the A167 for X85 to go 'round the top' as I'd say it'll be slightly quicker, less mundane and it's more non-stop than West Road (traffic lights etc).

Finally, the reason I give for the X85 continuing to Carlisle is that it would be in direct competition with the rail service, taking a somewhat similar time to the train.


-----

(01 Jun 2015, 2:56 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote It won't be Max or Sapphire - a new brand will have to be agreed with Stagecoach.

I doubt it. If anything, Stagecoach would probably launch it as a premium service in reaction to Arriva so as not to lose custom. Stagecoach's E300s have free Wifi and seatbelts whereas Arriva's Omnicities do not - Wifi being the main difference between a premium brand and not.

Why don't Arriva get an express back on the Coast Road? The only reason the 44 didn't make money was because it served Norham Rd and New York rather than the populated Billy Mill / Lynn Road areas. Would take alot of pressure of the 308, the 306 wouldn't need to continue to Whitley Bay and it could also provide peak time X9 workings.

- Service X38 Mon to Sat every 30 mins serving Whitley Bay, Marden, Rake Lane, Lynn Road, Billy Mill, Formica then limited stop to Haymarket only calling at Willington Square and St Mary's Place. PVR would be 3 (increase would be 2 with a PVR reducton of 1 on the 306). Service would be cut in the morning eastbound to cater for X9 workings and same would apply westbound during the afternoon Mon to Fri peak.

I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

(05 Jun 2015, 9:31 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

The route definitely isn't tendered by Northumberland, the 85/685 is operated on a commercial basis, as is the 185. 

I agree, knowing Arriva they would just stick Streetlites on there. But the service definitely doesn't justify double deckers, it's quite often that the service carries no more than double figures between Newcastle and Hexham, possibly because of competition by GNE on the Tynedalexpress, which seems to be doing extremely well at the minute.

(05 Jun 2015, 9:31 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

Can't be Sapphire, Sapphire is a frequency (or combined frequency) of at least 15 minutes. The 85/185/685 isn't that.

(07 Jun 2015, 3:16 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Can't be Sapphire, Sapphire is a frequency (or combined frequency) of at least 15 minutes. The 85/185/685 isn't that.

Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

(07 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm)tyresmoke wrote Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

The ever-changing specifications of Max and Sapphire. 

(07 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm)tyresmoke wrote Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

I think it's the website that references frequent. Unfortunately it won't load on my phone, so I can't confirm that.