Arriva changing their fares from 30th Jan

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...north-east

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...north-east

WOW Child Single Fares over £3.00 and Child Return Fares over £2.50 will all increase by 10p, have I read this correctly

"From 30 January 2022, we’re simplifying our fares to make them easier to understand. We’re also changing some ticket zone boundaries,"
...whilst attaching a list of 22 different day/week/4-weekly ticket options!

Whilst we know the industry is struggling, not only financially, but the effort to get people back on buses, it makes me wonder what Arriva are actually doing to try and encourage people back? What initiatives are they running, what work are they doing behind the scenes, or are they even trying to work with other operators to try and deliver better services? I mean it's almost criminal that they're still issuing child fares at that price. A postcode lottery, if I've ever seen one. That's something that could have been fixed in these changes...

Fare rises are always going to be negative and I'm just not seeing anything they're running to positively counter that.

(27 Jan 2022, 6:11 pm)Adrian wrote "From 30 January 2022, we’re simplifying our fares to make them easier to understand. We’re also changing some ticket zone boundaries,"
...whilst attaching a list of 22 different day/week/4-weekly ticket options!

Whilst we know the industry is struggling, not only financially, but the effort to get people back on buses, it makes me wonder what Arriva are actually doing to try and encourage people back? What initiatives are they running, what work are they doing behind the scenes, or are they even trying to work with other operators to try and deliver better services? I mean it's almost criminal that they're still issuing child fares at that price. A postcode lottery, if I've ever seen one. That's something that could have been fixed in these changes...

Fare rises are always going to be negative and I'm just not seeing anything they're running to positively counter that.

tbh. the Arriva zones North of the Tyne are fine as they are. There's no real reason to change them as they work well for what they are. That child single fare might seem expensive but it's just half the price of a single so any fares at that level are going to be routes such as Berwick to Newcastle, Scarborough to Middlesbrough or Carlisle to Newcastle and for the distance travelled, £3 isn't really that bad. The train price will be much much more than that.

The pricing for day tickets etc with Arriva imo are reasonable and aren't the problem. Reducing the price of tickets would be nice from a passenger point of view but if it only picks up an extra 100 passengers and you already carry 1000 passengers a day you've just thrown away £500 or so for no reason.

There's not really 22 different ticket types there either it's just showing all the triple tickets seperately which is why there's so many zones but at the end of the day it's been produced for people who already know what they're buying so it's probably the easiest way to explain it.

(27 Jan 2022, 6:34 pm)Storx wrote tbh. the Arriva zones North of the Tyne are fine as they are. There's no real reason to change them as they work well for what they are. That child single fare might seem expensive but it's just half the price of a single so any fares at that level are going to be routes such as Berwick to Newcastle, Scarborough to Middlesbrough or Carlisle to Newcastle and for the distance travelled, £3 isn't really that bad. The train price will be much much more than that.

The pricing for day tickets etc with Arriva imo are reasonable and aren't the problem. Reducing the price of tickets would be nice from a passenger point of view but if it only picks up an extra 100 passengers and you already carry 1000 passengers a day you've just thrown away £500 or so for no reason.

There's not really 22 different ticket types there either it's just showing all the triple tickets seperately which is why there's so many zones but at the end of the day it's been produced for people who already know what they're buying so it's probably the easiest way to explain it.

You've just argued for simpler in the Go North East thread, but you're content with 13 different zones (that I count) covering Northumberland and Tyne and Wear? It's a ridiculous system and nonsensical to anyone outside of their commercial team. 

You've partially answered the question in "people who already know what they're buying", i.e. not targeting growth, but shouldn't we be looking at ways to encourage a modal shift from car to public transport in Tyne and Wear? How do complex ticketing arrangements like this help with that objective? We can't just keep looking at it as managed decline.

There's not 13 zones though. There's only 5 zones. Ashington, Blyth, Morpeth, Tyne and Wear and Tyne Valley. For some reason they've decided to print all the zone combinations out separately on there for some reason but I'm assuming it's just because it's what people are used to and it's easy for people to read it.

If it was promoting the tickets I'd agree though. But usually they use 1 zone, 2 zones and all zone tickets as seen when they first launched it here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/islandyorkie/5124828158/

Must admit it would be nice for a map of the actual zones on the internet somewhere though which doesn't seem to exist anymore since the god awful new website.

Edit: there is one but it's hard to find - https://cdn1-originals.webdamdb.com/1395...IOLRFF2RHA which is ironically wrong as you can get Morpeth + T&W tickets.

(27 Jan 2022, 7:05 pm)Storx wrote There's not 13 zones though. There's only 5 zones. Ashington, Blyth, Morpeth, Tyne and Wear and Tyne Valley. For some reason they've decided to print all the zone combinations out separately on there for some reason but I'm assuming it's just because it's what people are used to and it's easy for people to read it.

If it was promoting the tickets I'd agree though. But usually they use 1 zone, 2 zones and all zone tickets as seen when they first launched it here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/islandyorkie/5124828158/

Must admit it would be nice for a map of the actual zones on the internet somewhere though which doesn't seem to exist anymore since the god awful new website.

The last Arriva fares map that I saw a few years ago was hideously complex - it had zones within zones within zones, especially in Durham.

Quite frankly I’ve lost track of all the zones that Arriva have - but it’s bewildering that you seem to suggest you find their schemes simpler than what Go North East are rolling out with their new county tickets to replace the previous GoZone tickets.


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(27 Jan 2022, 7:05 pm)Storx wrote There's not 13 zones though. There's only 5 zones. Ashington, Blyth, Morpeth, Tyne and Wear and Tyne Valley. For some reason they've decided to print all the zone combinations out separately on there for some reason but I'm assuming it's just because it's what people are used to and it's easy for people to read it.

How many different tickets can I buy here that cover various places in or across Northumberland and Tyne and Wear? https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/buy-tickets/...north-east

You're telling me there's only 5, yet I have a lot more options than that!

(27 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm)Dan wrote The last Arriva fares map that I saw a few years ago was hideously complex - it had zones within zones within zones, especially in Durham.

Quite frankly I’ve lost track of all the zones that Arriva have - but it’s bewildering that you seem to suggest you find their schemes simpler than what Go North East are rolling out with their new county tickets to replace the previous GoZone tickets.


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Christ, trying to figure out which Arriva ticket I needed to get took me ages.
Do I need a Bishop Auckland, Durham District, or County Durham ticket? Who knows, the map makes no bloody sense and customer service tells me different things to the list of locations on the app.

(27 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm)Dan wrote The last Arriva fares map that I saw a few years ago was hideously complex - it had zones within zones within zones, especially in Durham.

Quite frankly I’ve lost track of all the zones that Arriva have - but it’s bewildering that you seem to suggest you find their schemes simpler than what Go North East are rolling out with their new county tickets to replace the previous GoZone tickets.


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Yeah no arguments about Arriva Durham, it's a complete mess tbh. It was Northumbria only there. Personally think the triple ticket zones are simple and would love to see the whole region done similar with all operators coming together with one set of zones being honest. The website is badly done though mind. Durham is particularly bad with 3/4 different tickets I believe.

(27 Jan 2022, 7:12 pm)Adrian wrote How many different tickets can I buy here that cover various places in or across Northumberland and Tyne and Wear? https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/buy-tickets/...north-east

You're telling me there's only 5, yet I have a lot more options than that!

Tbh the website is abysmal can't really argue about that but imo it's more a website issue rather than the zones. Ideally it should work like the following:

Select Ticket Type -> Northumberland Triple Ticket -> How Many Zones (1/2/All) with a map showing zones -> 1 Zone, Select Zone / 2 Zone, Select Starting Zone, Select Second Zone / 3 Zone, Skip -> Purchase

Even better would be you select where your starting say Blyth then select your end destination say Morpeth and it just gives you the best ticket you need for that journey with other options around it but that's a different subject really.

I think it’s ‘fare’ (groan) to say that none of the operators cover themselves with glory over ease of ticket selection, no matter how you sugar coat it.

It just strengthens the argument for simpler, cheaper, multi operator tickets.

Could any of the big 3 not do a fare scheme like lothian do up north? 4.20 a day. 20 a week. Both capped when you use the same credit debit card?

(27 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm)Rob44 wrote Could any of the big 3 not do a fare scheme like lothian do up north? 4.20 a day. 20 a week. Both capped when you use the same credit debit card?

It's possible, as GNE are already doing it with the 53/54 and I think Q3 as a trial, but it requires tap on/tap off, presumably due to a flat fare structure not being in place.

I have to call out this ridiculous ticketing system too. It certainly doesn’t make Go North East look as bad, despite clear issues there too. Arriva are guilty of not sugar coating potentially flaws as well as GNE try, Adrian rightly points out there’s a list of 22 (I’m trusting his counting, cause I haven’t!) different tickets, yes some are triple tickets etc. but it’s still a mess. But GNE promote their simple three zone map based on county boundaries, in its self pretty simple, but there’s actually three county zones plus the local savers, of which there’s eight, so then that gives you 11 different types of ticket over what is geographically a smaller network area compared to Arriva.

Quick question regarding child fares, there’s no Northumberland or Tyne & Wear child day/week tickets, are these subsided by Nexus and Northumberland County Council?

I’ll agree to extent that Arriva Northern area isn’t too bad and the zone map actually goes a long way to simplify what looked like a really confusing list of tickets - Another point of bad marketing, why doesn’t either of those Arriva articles have a graphic? A zone map attached would go a long way instead it’s had to be searched out by individuals. But the southern area overlapping zones really are a hot mess. So many “Durham” tickets! I’m not sure where to begin if I’m honest. But the overall system by Arriva is sort of similar to what GNE have, larger zones with some smaller savers, Arriva seem to have a middle man between these two types though in Teesside and County Durham.

I also have to love the “Durham District” ticket that seemingly covers Newcastle and Gateshead but doesn’t cover Haswell, Cockfield or Stanhope!

There's 16 ticket types at GNE, including the Crusader, 21 and Voltra RouteSavers.

Arriva child day tickets are under the Student Saver name in Northumberland and Tyneside, the child and student range was merged and simplified a few years ago.

(28 Jan 2022, 3:28 am)omnicity4659 wrote There's 16 ticket types at GNE, including the Crusader, 21 and Voltra RouteSavers.

Arriva child day tickets are under the Student Saver name in Northumberland and Tyneside, the child and student range was merged and simplified a few years ago.

I think it goes to prove how effective marketing can be.

The immediate perception among most of the posters above seems to be that Arriva North East have far more tickets than Go North East. If in reality they are actually comparable in terms of number - possibly a few less on GNE - then it goes to show that the latter have managed to package and market their fares in such a way that it comes across to enthusiasts (and presumably in turn customers) a lot more simpler.

I've checked to see how many fares Arriva have in the same areas that GNE operate in. There are more wholly outside of the GNE area, for the sake of comparison I haven't added them.
Single zones

• Bishop Auckland
  
• County Durham
  
• Durham City & Brandon
  
• Durham District
  
• Middlesbrough (borough and Stockton High Street)
  
• Tees Valley (Darlington through Staithes)
  
• Teesside (Stockton & Middlesbrough boroughs)
  

Network

• North East Regionwide (Berwick through Scarborough)
  

Northumberland + Tyne & Wear (formerly Triple)

• One Zone (Ashington, Blyth, Tyne & Wear, Tyne Valley)
  
• Two Zones (combine with any adjacent zone)
  
• All Zones
  

East Durham

• One Zone (Sunderland & Seaham, Peterlee)
  
• All Zones
  

Routesaver

• Coastliner (306/308 Blyth/Whitley Bay to Newcastle)
  
• 6 (Framwellgate Moor to West Auckland)
  
• X12 (Durham Bus Station to Newcastle)
  

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After looking through all the fares, there are some that could be changed...

• The Killingworth and Quorum routesavers appear to be the same, merge into one ticket.
  
• Morpeth Zone extended to Rothbury/Thropton, renamed Morpeth & Country Zone.
  
• Ashington Zone extended to Amble, renamed Ashington & Amble Zone.
  
• Rothbury and Morpeth routesavers replaced with NTW ticketing (Morpeth-Newcastle would be all zones).
  
• County Durham and Durham District tickets could be merged.
  
• Introduction of an Alnwick Routesaver (cheaper than NE Regionwide for Alnwick-Newcastle commuters, ideally allowing travel across all NTW zones) and an Alnwick & Amble area ticket.
  

(28 Jan 2022, 10:40 am)omnicity4659 wrote -----

After looking through all the fares, there are some that could be changed...

• Morpeth Zone extended to Rothbury/Thropton, renamed Morpeth & Country Zone.
  
• Ashington Zone extended to Amble, renamed Ashington & Amble Zone.
  
• Rothbury and Morpeth routesavers replaced with NTW ticketing (Morpeth-Newcastle would be all zones).
  
• Introduction of an Alnwick Routesaver (cheaper than NE Regionwide for Alnwick-Newcastle commuters, ideally allowing travel across all NTW zones) and an Alnwick & Amble area ticket.
  

Ngl not sure I agree with those.

Tbh I'd be tempted to just merge the current Morpeth, part of Ashington and Blyth as a SE Northumberland ticket. Then create 2 extra zones, one being an Amble and Alnwick zone which includes anywhere North of Woodhorn / Longhirst / Northgate. Then a third zone North of Alnwick.

Would result in all those prices coming in anyway. The £7.60 fare from Ashington to Newcastle is a tad bit steep nowadays, and the weekly/monthly tickets are barely any different between 2Z and 3Z tickets. I'd be tempted to up the £4.70 1Z to £5.20 at the same time aswell since your getting more for your money.

(28 Jan 2022, 2:41 am)Drifter60 wrote I have to call out this ridiculous ticketing system too. It certainly doesn’t make Go North East look as bad, despite clear issues there too. Arriva are guilty of not sugar coating potentially flaws as well as GNE try, Adrian rightly points out there’s a list of 22 (I’m trusting his counting, cause I haven’t!) different tickets, yes some are triple tickets etc. but it’s still a mess. But GNE promote their simple three zone map based on county boundaries, in its self pretty simple, but there’s actually three county zones plus the local savers, of which there’s eight, so then that gives you 11 different types of ticket over what is geographically a smaller network area compared to Arriva. 

Quick question regarding child fares, there’s no Northumberland or Tyne & Wear child day/week tickets, are these subsided by Nexus and Northumberland County Council?

I’ll agree to extent that Arriva Northern area isn’t too bad and the zone map actually goes a long way to simplify what looked like a really confusing list of tickets - Another point of bad marketing, why doesn’t either of those Arriva articles have a graphic? A zone map attached would go a long way instead it’s had to be searched out by individuals. But the southern area overlapping zones really are a hot mess. So many “Durham” tickets! I’m not sure where to begin if I’m honest. But the overall system by Arriva is sort of similar to what GNE have, larger zones with some smaller savers, Arriva seem to have a middle man between these two types though in Teesside and County Durham.   

I also have to love the “Durham District” ticket that seemingly covers Newcastle and Gateshead but doesn’t cover Haswell, Cockfield or Stanhope!

Durham District was originally Durham and a few bits outside Durham, so mostly for people in the surrounding villages. It's grown a few times in the past few years but, obviously, still isn't as widespread as Durham County (which happens to include Darlo and also includes Sunderland, so long as you don't use it to travel between points in Sunderland, though back when I was using it, a lot of drivers weren't even aware of that so I ended up paying for a region wide, anyhow)

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"X12 (Durham Bus Station to Newcastle)"

Another one that drivers never seem to be aware of or able to find on their machines when I tell them it really is a thing.

Fare changes in the North East again:

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...north-east