North East Buses

(15 Nov 2022, 5:47 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Talking about widening roads, widening roads does not decrease journey time, it actually increases it.

Care to elaborate?

(15 Nov 2022, 5:49 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Care to elaborate?

I was shocked at first too, but actually it makes it worse in the long run, as more people are inclined to use roads when the road has been widened as they think its lower commute times so more people use it, and the congestion gets worse.
https://www.smartertransport.uk/does-bui...ongestion/ https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traff...ed-demand/

A combination of factors makes congestion worse, however I think driver education (through signs, adverts etc) telling people not to change lanes when queuing (which causes the majority of delays) and to merge effectively should be tried before adding other lanes.

(15 Nov 2022, 6:22 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]A combination of factors makes congestion worse, however I think driver education (through signs, adverts etc) telling people not to change lanes when queuing (which causes the majority of delays) and to merge effectively should be tried before adding other lanes.

The main problem is people don't get taught how to drive on dual carriageways and motorways!

(15 Nov 2022, 5:52 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]I was shocked at first too, but actually it makes it worse in the long run, as more people are inclined to use roads when the road has been widened as they think its lower commute times so more people use it, and the congestion gets worse.
https://www.smartertransport.uk/does-bui...ongestion/ https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traff...ed-demand/

The problem is we don't invest in public transport either. Other countries treat public transport as a public service so if the equivalent GNE made a loss £10m a year it wouldn't be the end of the world if they ran a complete bus service as the gains elsewhere; less traffic, better productivity etc outweighs that usually paid by subsidies. Even known we pay them anyway funding rubbish by GCT and the likes which no-one use.

Instead we treat them like a business so it's just a mess with chopped up routes, carved up areas, routes not going where they want and inadequate light rail / rail services so everyone jumps in a car. There's towns in France of 100k with better rail / light rail that we have in places like Leeds in particular. The exception being London which has a fantastic public transport network imo but even that's in trouble as TFL has a black hole which the government are refusing to help with as they're playing politics and blaming it on Khan as it's all the current Tory lot do lately.

(15 Nov 2022, 5:46 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's nothing to do with the widening mind. It's just the last remaining part of concrete that was outside the scheme. 

Not an easy thing to get arid of hence the nighttime closures for weeks in probably the worst place to have a closure on the A19 in terms of diversions.

Sorry, probably wasn't clear enough. 

Residents in the area pushed for that last section to be included in the original plans.

Decision makers, in their wisdom(?), decided it wouldn't be.

So as well as the original widening and fixing the bodge job of tarmacing from the initial works - they then came back to do the southbound section of concreting (in two sections) and now the northbound (in two sections).
Once being underneath and north of the roundabout to the slips and then further north again.

Adding a further 2 or 3 months on to an existing project, with more inconvenience and cost than was ever needed if they did it all together.

(15 Nov 2022, 9:03 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Adding a further 2 or 3 months on to an existing project, with more inconvenience and cost than was ever needed if they did it all together.

Doubt that the cost would have came out of Autolink's pockets either... just more money on top of the DBFO finance agreement 

(15 Nov 2022, 9:03 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Sorry, probably wasn't clear enough. 

Residents in the area pushed for that last section to be included in the original plans.

Decision makers, in their wisdom(?), decided it wouldn't be.

So as well as the original widening and fixing the bodge job of tarmacing from the initial works - they then came back to do the southbound section of concreting (in two sections) and now the northbound (in two sections).
Once being underneath and north of the roundabout to the slips and then further north again.

Adding a further 2 or 3 months on to an existing project, with more inconvenience and cost than was ever needed if they did it all together.

Different budgets I guess like someone said after. The ironic thing is as far as I'm aware they didn't actually lift the concrete on the widening part - they 100% widened it with concrete first and just laid tarmac on top as far as I'm aware.

Not sure why they've suddenly decided to rip it up which is costly on this part. 

Mind have to give credit though Autolink have got the A19 in good condition, less said about parts of the A1(M) which is bodged mess in places.

(15 Nov 2022, 9:35 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Doubt that the cost would have came out of Autolink's pockets either... just more money on top of the DBFO finance agreement 

(15 Nov 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Different budgets I guess like someone said after. The ironic thing is as far as I'm aware they didn't actually lift the concrete on the widening part - they 100% widened it with concrete first and just laid tarmac on top as far as I'm aware.

Not sure why they've suddenly decided to rip it up which is costly on this part. 

Mind have to give credit though Autolink have got the A19 in good condition, less said about parts of the A1(M) which is bodged mess in places.

Just last year, the road had plenty of life in it.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...ore-target

Less than a year later and a decision has been made, it is at the end of its life now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazette...834846.amp

Demonstrating as much foresight as some local bus operators...

Surely it can't be me that's noticed a significant improvement in the number of short notice journey cancellations recently. Literally no cancellations for tomorrow.

However, saying that though, I don't wanna jinx it and I probably have but oh well. Just let's appreciate it while it lasts I suppose.

You also have to look at the service cuts that have happened since July, which had to have massively helped. If we were Pre-July I think there would be fewer cancellations but still a lot, but considering all those cuts, all the Mentors I've seen and all the new drivers I've noticed I feel like Go North East is still losing drivers.

Saw this earlier today: https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...4877338624

@gonortheast wroteGo North East @gonortheast
We are sorry but due to high passenger loads leaving Sunderland on the service 56, the 06:13 journey from Newcastle to Sunderland will run to a delay of up to 15 minutes.

I had a quick look on bustimes and it looks like it's came out of the depot late. Flagged on St Michaels Way at 05:02 and out of the Bus Station at 05:10, but it was 05:23 by the time it left Fawcett St, which I'm assuming is down to passenger loading.

What on earth was going on at that time in the morning? I know there's a Northern Rail strike today, but the Metro is still running a limited timetable from Sunderland, so I wouldn't have thought it would have a knock on impact to the 56.

(26 Nov 2022, 10:32 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Saw this earlier today: https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...4877338624


I had a quick look on bustimes and it looks like it's came out of the depot late. Flagged on St Michaels Way at 05:02 and out of the Bus Station at 05:10, but it was 05:23 by the time it left Fawcett St, which I'm assuming is down to passenger loading.

What on earth was going on at that time in the morning? I know there's a Northern Rail strike today, but the Metro is still running a limited timetable from Sunderland, so I wouldn't have thought it would have a knock on impact to the 56.

Could be factories? The 4am 56 we used to do on night shift used to be pretty busy with people going to work 7 days a week, even though it was withdrawn "due to low passenger numbers".

(27 Nov 2022, 1:55 am)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]Could be factories? The 4am 56 we used to do on night shift used to be pretty busy with people going to work 7 days a week, even though it was withdrawn "due to low passenger numbers".

I'd assumed it may have been Nissan, but doesn't look like it stopped for any length of time there. Likewise at Concord, say if people were changing there for Amazon.

Not sure how regular an occurrence it is anyway, just thought it a tad odd for that time in the morning.

The 56s, I've noticed from the past couple weekends, seem to really be struggling with that 15 minute frequency. Every other bus I've used has been full, and the ones that haven't been, it's usually because they're trailing another bus around.

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(27 Nov 2022, 9:33 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'd assumed it may have been Nissan, but doesn't look like it stopped for any length of time there. Likewise at Concord, say if people were changing there for Amazon.

Not sure how regular an occurrence it is anyway, just thought it a tad odd for that time in the morning.

The 56s, I've noticed from the past couple weekends, seem to really be struggling with that 15 minute frequency. Every other bus I've used has been full, and the ones that haven't been, it's usually because they're trailing another bus around.

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It's very rare I have a quiet 56 now, it does feel like it's as busy, or even busier than it was when it was every 12 minutes.

(27 Nov 2022, 11:22 am)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]It's very rare I have a quiet 56 now, it does feel like it's as busy, or even busier than it was when it was every 12 minutes.

Similar loads with lower overheads = big smiles in GNE Towers.

The challenge for them now, is pushing it further and those squashed souls finding an alternative; maintaining the status quo and running the risk of those squashed souls finding an alternative Or increasing the frequency and hoping the numbers increase in line.

(27 Nov 2022, 11:39 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Similar loads with lower overheads = big smiles in GNE Towers.

The challenge for them now, is pushing it further and those squashed souls finding an alternative; maintaining the status quo and running the risk of those squashed souls finding an alternative Or increasing the frequency and hoping the numbers increase in line.

It been the pattern since COVID, just slash service frequency.

And I think it has put people off, I mean the X45 going to every 30 mins, you've lost two buses an hour in most places so why on earth would you take the bus, seems to be every night there is one X45 cancelled, and they have to wait an hour instead of getting the 47 30 mins later, but that terminates at Blackhall Mill, the 20 in Houghton they've lost a bus an hour "due to """"""temporary""""" frequency reductions they've now lost another 2 an hour.

Been out for a few pints for a change today and watch the women at stbhmjames. Noticed 3 x1 from gateshead metro to town all only going to the galleries. Even at eldon sq the next x1 always marked as only going to Washington bus station???

(27 Nov 2022, 8:47 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Been out for a few pints for a change today and watch the women at stbhmjames. Noticed 3 x1 from gateshead metro to town all only going to the galleries. Even at eldon sq the next x1 always marked as only going to Washington bus station???

On Sundays, 1ph run as far as The Galleries, 1ph to Easington Lane and 1ph to Peterlee.

So it sounds like you saw the scheduled Galleries terminator (which would have been the one on the screen at Eldon Square) and the following Easington Lane and Peterlee buses were curtailed at The Galleries due to no driver being available to take them further.


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(28 Nov 2022, 6:06 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]On Sundays, 1ph run as far as The Galleries, 1ph to Easington Lane and 1ph to Peterlee.

So it sounds like you saw the scheduled Galleries terminator (which would have been the one on the screen at Eldon Square) and the following Easington Lane and Peterlee buses were curtailed at The Galleries due to no driver being available to take them further.


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Cheers dan. Im assuming " Washington bus station" on the screens at Eldon sq meant the galleries?  The queue was a canny size when i passed.

Buses in Bishop are an absolute shambles at the minute with all the roadworks going on, not sure if there's much that can be done about it though!

(30 Nov 2022, 2:49 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Buses in Bishop are an absolute shambles at the minute with all the roadworks going on, not sure if there's much that can be done about it though!

After yesterday, I'm just assuming that I'll end up on an angel and that an X21 running roughly to time is merely a nice surprise. I hopped on a late running anel, yesterday morning, while waiting for the X21 because a bus in the hand is worth two on the app, these days. We caught up with the X21 in Chester and ended up taking on its passengers because the heating wasn't working. Coming back from Eldon square, the X21 I'd aimed for was over 20 minutes late, so I fully expected it to run straight past when it did turn up so caught the 21, again. Youngest has an appointment at the RVI in a couple of weeks and no way am I relying on the bus to get me to that on time - I'd not be able to leave the house before 8:30 and the appointment is at 10. It used to be easily do-able but not any more. Husband is taking the day off and we will go in the car.

Honestly, it just seems delays are getting worse and worse.

I've been getting the bus for the past month, and most of them have been late, loads of them 5-10 minutes, and quite a few 15+. Apart from the 20 from Park Lane probably due to the layover time but it got there on time but leaves late quite a lot. They're normally late going to Sunderland.

(30 Nov 2022, 6:21 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Honestly, it just seems delays are getting worse and worse.

The problem with the X21 is both sets of roadworks are on the only route the bus can take, it's not as if there's any diversion options to miss it out!

(01 Dec 2022, 1:10 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The problem with the X21 is both sets of roadworks are on the only route the bus can take, it's not as if there's any diversion options to miss it out!

Well they can but it means dropping out of service [emoji6]

X21 is just impossible to keep to time currently, after some BusTimes investigation following reports on here and after seeing their Twitter, I looked to see if it was just the disruptions round Bishop/Coundon Gate affecting things and whilst it was causing delays in the region of 20 minutes, the A1(M) also played havoc, one afternoon Newcastle bound journey got stuck in traffic on the A1 having kept close to time beforehand, the result was arriving and terminating at Gateshead 40 minutes late.

I really do not wish to use the service atm as the liklihood of me being significantly delayed is too high which is putting me off wanting to go to Newcastle/Gateshead/MetroCentre entirely by bus, I've had less issues with the X12 but that's still prone to disruption too (hourly frequency is a pain to work with too).

(01 Dec 2022, 1:10 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The problem with the X21 is both sets of roadworks are on the only route the bus can take, it's not as if there's any diversion options to miss it out!

I wonder if a bigger layover in West Auckland would be better than layover in Newcastle of around 25 mins like they used to have. 

Especially with the last service from West Auckland to Newcastle being quite early.

Well i was tracking the 9 last night for work. It was in green live but then decided to go towards Washington and disappeared. Not on cancellations list and was late for work. Ended up running for the metro

(01 Dec 2022, 8:42 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Well they can but it means dropping out of service [emoji6]

X21 is just impossible to keep to time currently, after some BusTimes investigation following reports on here and after seeing their Twitter, I looked to see if it was just the disruptions round Bishop/Coundon Gate affecting things and whilst it was causing delays in the region of 20 minutes, the A1(M) also played havoc, one afternoon Newcastle bound journey got stuck in traffic on the A1 having kept close to time beforehand, the result was arriving and terminating at Gateshead 40 minutes late.

I really do not wish to use the service atm as the liklihood of me being significantly delayed is too high which is putting me off wanting to go to Newcastle/Gateshead/MetroCentre entirely by bus, I've had less issues with the X12 but that's still prone to disruption too (hourly frequency is a pain to work with too).

I've been on a few X21s bouncing around Bishop this morning and they've been running to time.
Although I'm guessing that's because one of the drivers just completely ignored the red light at the temporary lights next to the hospital.

I suggested this before, and as things get worse every day especially with the X21 I wonder whether this could be an idea.

So X21 to West Auckland (from Newcastle) if its anymore than 20 mins late, it will only stop at Newcastle & Gateshead till it gets back to 5/10 mins late /goes to Durham, then if its a at Durham at 30 mins late it will be stopping only from Bishop to West Auckland Retail park

X21 to Newcastle (if anymore than 20 mins late) it would stop between West Auckland & Durham (dropping off only, if its not 15 mins late or less) then running not in service to Newcastle/till its back on time.

This would be quite hard to work out for most services. But this would only really happen if you were like every 15 mins service was 10 mins late, or a 10 mins service was 8 mins late. However if its the final service/service is every hour this wouldn't work unless it was e.g 10B to Newcastle, where it could run in Service to say Blaydon then NIS/Dropping off only to Newcastle