North East Buses

(27 Oct 2023, 9:51 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]They've need drivers, more infrastructure, more pathing - it just wouldn't work. 

And a lot of Metro's problems are not capacity - it's the whole wider piece

Add another carriage, or two?

(27 Oct 2023, 9:38 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]But there's no alternative. Metro cannot cope and even with the new fleet probably can't manage the influx

I hear what your saying but i think you underestimate the improvements that will come with new trains........... I've read the bumff from NEXUS

(27 Oct 2023, 7:42 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Whilst there's not much forward planning (I'd argue there's stuff they could do to mitigate delays) they can do for roadworks and the inevitable delays, I do wonder how many of the cars on the road are there because the buses don't meet their needs?

Imagine the bus companies being proactive and trying to find out why the people in the cars aren't on the buses and then doing something about it?

It's that they don't even attempt anything to mitigate roadworks. They know they've got buses getting stuck for around 20 minutes southbound, between Newgate Street and the foot of the Bigg Market, yet continue to send everything down that way. It's madness. 

Seeing as stuff is managing to get in over the Tyne Bridge OK, I don't understand why they wouldn't send stuff back that way instead? Especially when they've got a bus only lane on Swan House and then a bus lane down the slip road onto the bridge. It'd mean missing stops at St Nicholas cathedral and by Microbus, but at least you'd not have a queue of buses backed up.

(27 Oct 2023, 11:59 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It's that they don't even attempt anything to mitigate roadworks. They know they've got buses getting stuck for around 20 minutes southbound, between Newgate Street and the foot of the Bigg Market, yet continue to send everything down that way. It's madness. 

Seeing as stuff is managing to get in over the Tyne Bridge OK, I don't understand why they wouldn't send stuff back that way instead? Especially when they've got a bus only lane on Swan House and then a bus lane down the slip road onto the bridge. It'd mean missing stops at St Nicholas cathedral and by Microbus, but at least you'd not have a queue of buses backed up.

Agree 100% it's been like that for years, but there doesn't seem to be any nous or logic within the SDC team that mitigates for those roadworks.

That nous and logic could re-direct buses, offer temporary diversions at peak times, consolidate two or three bus loads on to one (whilst ensuring punters aren't left stranded in other locations) and probably much more beyond that.

Assuming performance stats are being reported correctly, I'm genuinely blown away that there's no improvement plans being introduced or, heads rolling.

22/23 and cos of that the 24 are really suffering upto 40 mins late.

Ideally they could just where possibly be mostly all decker allocated and take some deckers off other routes.

They cannot just leave it for 12 weeks without any major changes

(01 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]22/23 and cos of that the 24 are really suffering upto 40 mins late.

Ideally they could just where possibly be mostly all decker allocated and take some deckers off other routes.

They cannot just leave it for 12 weeks without any major changes

They should be looking at it as an opportunity, if its GNE's customers flocking to them.

Register a change to increase the frequency and in the meantime, offer promotional weekly/monthly tickets, cheaper than what they're paying now.

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(01 Nov 2023, 10:19 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]They should be looking at it as an opportunity, if its GNE's customers flocking to them.

Register a change to increase the frequency and in the meantime, offer promotional weekly/monthly tickets, cheaper than what they're paying now.

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Lack of staff / vehicles is the problem though. There's not enough buses as it is with constant cancellations at Redcar to find more from somewhere, and as far as I'm aware, there's still driver cancelations at Durham aswell.

Same as the decker suggestion, there simply isn't any as they're all needed elsewhere. Not to mention the problems with the 6 and X12 aswell. The last which is corridor crying for competition from anyone right now.

This is hurting GNE more than they think

(01 Nov 2023, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]22/23 and cos of that the 24 are really suffering upto 40 mins late.

Ideally they could just where possibly be mostly all decker allocated and take some deckers off other routes.

They cannot just leave it for 12 weeks without any major changes

Few bits of roadworks along the routes ain't helping matters, Durham yesterday was just completely gridlocked, believe Leazes Road was down to one lane and it was taking all the services that enter Durham that way considerably longer to reach North Road, roughly 30 mins from Durham Uni to North Road, whilst the 64 was taking as long as an hour to reach North Road from Sherburn.

(01 Nov 2023, 11:51 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Few bits of roadworks along the routes ain't helping matters, Durham yesterday was just completely gridlocked, believe Leazes Road was down to one lane and it was taking all the services that enter Durham that way considerably longer to reach North Road, roughly 30 mins from Durham Uni to North Road, whilst the 64 was taking as long as an hour to reach North Road from Sherburn.

Its the entirety of Durham normally. 

If only there was some sort of way to move people in large groups in big vehicles...

(02 Nov 2023, 12:08 am)DUnber43 wrote [ -> ]Its the entirety of Durham normally. 

If only there was some sort of way to move people in large groups in big vehicles...

For a city, Durham rarely has any traffic.
Nevilles Cross gets backed up at peak times, and with the roadworks by the university there are often delays but that's about it.

Pick literally any other time of day or direction, and you can get through without much fuss

This is a very interesting opinion piece about staff morale and people management. The final paragraph is probably the most brutal. Some home truths in there for some!
https://www.passengertransport.co.uk/202...or-morale/

Spotted this on Twitter. No wonder the industry is short of drivers.

https://twitter.com/thebonnylad/status/1...nzSR3MrWlQ&s=19

(19 Nov 2023, 9:01 am)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Spotted this on Twitter. No wonder the industry is short of drivers.

https://twitter.com/thebonnylad/status/1...nzSR3MrWlQ&s=19

Yet more ridiculous fake news posted on social media to suit an agenda during the current dispute.

This duty is specific to the agency driver working on that contract. The agency drivers will work much longer shifts than one of the company’s own colleagues, to any conditions which are legal. They do this to maximise the amount of money they get paid on these contracts, and know what they are signing up for before they agree to work at any company for the agency.

This type of duty would not and could not be imposed on one of the company’s own colleagues. It does not conform to the Union agreements of any depot. Even if there were no Union agreements forbidding this, it would not rota well on a 39-hour week (as opposed to the agency drivers’ guaranteed 55-hour week), so would never be planned like this.


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(19 Nov 2023, 9:39 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yet more ridiculous fake news posted on social media to suit an agenda during the current dispute.

This duty is specific to the agency driver working on that contract. The agency drivers will work much longer shifts than one of the company’s own colleagues, to any conditions which are legal. They do this to maximise the amount of money they get paid on these contracts, and know what they are signing up for before they agree to work at any company for the agency.

This type of duty would not and could not be imposed on one of the company’s own colleagues. It does not conform to the Union agreements of any depot. Even if there were no Union agreements forbidding this, it would not rota well on a 39-hour week (as opposed to the agency drivers’ guaranteed 55-hour week), so would never be planned like this.


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I wouldn't be surprised then if that sort of duty is used as a "this is what they want to do is" thing. Without the context it looks very bad.

(19 Nov 2023, 9:53 am)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't be surprised then if that sort of duty is used as a "this is what they want to do is" thing. Without the context it looks very bad.

This is exactly the type of narrative being employed here, and it’s far from what the company is trying to achieve.

Under Martijn Gilbert’s running of the company, an independent rota review was undertaken in which drivers gave feedback on how they would like these to be adjusted to allow a better work/life balance.

The results were such that no changes could be made that would suit everyone, but it proved that some of the terms and conditions at Go North East actually prevented better duties and rotas being designed.

Martijn then left the business - as did most others involved in the rota review, with an almost entirely new commercial team now in place at Go North East and several new General Managers - and no progress was made on implementing these improvements.

Behind the scenes, sheet reps at some depots have since seen what movement on some existing terms and conditions can have upon their duties and rotas and have openly admitted that they are some of the best rotas they have ever seen, but because they do not conform to existing agreements, would not be accepted. Lo and behold, a proposal arose to introduce some changes to terms and conditions…

Perhaps wrongly linked to pay talks, this proposal was then taken off the table and agreed with Unite that discussions could be held individually with each depot to demonstrate once more the improvements which can be made by switching on/off and moving certain conditions which presently hinder the compilation of better duties and rotas, being agreed by Unite prior to any changes being introduced meaning that the pay deal is ‘no strings attached’ and completely separate to any discussion around terms and conditions. The media spin on this is that this was then the company targeting drivers on a depot-by-depot basis so that they did not have as big a voice.

The media spin is that Go North East is trying to force drivers to work long shifts with 5.5 hour driving portions. By and large, this is impossible to achieve due to Go North East’s long-distance services and complex interworking patterns meaning that a lot of services cycle in 4-4.5 hours (so it would be impossible to do another trip) - but logic is being taken out of arguments in the media.

A few days ago, Ambassador mentioned that employee forums are conducted at his place of work, which allows more constructive discussion to take place with management of the organisation he works at. The bus industry is so heavily unionised that this would be difficult to achieve at Go North East, especially in the current climate, but I dare say would have resulted in more meaningful and productive discussions to improve drivers’ work/life balance than what we have witnessed unfold over the last few months.

Alas, the dispute continues, drivers continue not to reap the rewards of a better work/life balance, and people’s lives continue to be disrupted…


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(19 Nov 2023, 10:56 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]A few days ago, Ambassador mentioned that employee forums are conducted at his place of work, which allows more constructive discussion to take place with management of the organisation he works at. The bus industry is so heavily unionised that this would be difficult to achieve at Go North East, especially in the current climate, but I dare say would have resulted in more meaningful and productive discussions to improve drivers’ work/life balance than what we have witnessed unfold over the last few months.

You'd have the same perceived issue, in my opinion.

Speaking as an outsider, the root of the issue in the bus industry all seems to all come back to the 'them and us' culture that exists between drivers and managers. This, combined with a disciplinary culture, allows distrust to thrive.

You could have whatever forum you wanted, but unless you're prepared to tackle the root of the problem, your employees will never move from a position where they think you're at it/up to something.



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(19 Nov 2023, 10:56 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]This is exactly the type of narrative being employed here, and it’s far from what the company is trying to achieve.

Under Martijn Gilbert’s running of the company, an independent rota review was undertaken in which drivers gave feedback on how they would like these to be adjusted to allow a better work/life balance.

The results were such that no changes could be made that would suit everyone, but it proved that some of the terms and conditions at Go North East actually prevented better duties and rotas being designed.

Martijn then left the business - as did most others involved in the rota review, with an almost entirely new commercial team now in place at Go North East and several new General Managers - and no progress was made on implementing these improvements.

Behind the scenes, sheet reps at some depots have since seen what movement on some existing terms and conditions can have upon their duties and rotas and have openly admitted that they are some of the best rotas they have ever seen, but because they do not conform to existing agreements, would not be accepted. Lo and behold, a proposal arose to introduce some changes to terms and conditions…

Perhaps wrongly linked to pay talks, this proposal was then taken off the table and agreed with Unite that discussions could be held individually with each depot to demonstrate once more the improvements which can be made by switching on/off and moving certain conditions which presently hinder the compilation of better duties and rotas, being agreed by Unite prior to any changes being introduced meaning that the pay deal is ‘no strings attached’ and completely separate to any discussion around terms and conditions. The media spin on this is that this was then the company targeting drivers on a depot-by-depot basis so that they did not have as big a voice.

The media spin is that Go North East is trying to force drivers to work long shifts with 5.5 hour driving portions. By and large, this is impossible to achieve due to Go North East’s long-distance services and complex interworking patterns meaning that a lot of services cycle in 4-4.5 hours (so it would be impossible to do another trip) - but logic is being taken out of arguments in the media.

A few days ago, Ambassador mentioned that employee forums are conducted at his place of work, which allows more constructive discussion to take place with management of the organisation he works at. The bus industry is so heavily unionised that this would be difficult to achieve at Go North East, especially in the current climate, but I dare say would have resulted in more meaningful and productive discussions to improve drivers’ work/life balance than what we have witnessed unfold over the last few months.

Alas, the dispute continues, drivers continue not to reap the rewards of a better work/life balance, and people’s lives continue to be disrupted…


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It is that sort of thing drivers will turn round and say "we've spoken about X Y Z and nothing gets done" and the cycle of negativity continues, not knowing the full background. Not a good situation at all.

(19 Nov 2023, 11:36 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]You'd have the same perceived issue, in my opinion.

Speaking as an outsider, the root of the issue in the bus industry all seems to all come back to the 'them and us' culture that exists between drivers and managers. This, combined with a disciplinary culture, allows distrust to thrive.

You could have whatever forum you wanted, but unless you're prepared to tackle the root of the problem, your employees will never move from a position where they think you're at it/up to something.



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I do wonder if them and us is just a basic lack of people management skills and a top down pressure to ensure protocol and  performance targets are made that is hitting middle and lower managers who have never been trained in anything but stick.

I’ve personally overseen the setting up of dozens of colleague forums and it is slow at first and it is a bit box ticky for a few months but once you enact real change, like the rota piece Dan mentioned, you get the buy in.

Of course the worst bit is when you don’t enact the change and a whole new management team comes in, you sort of lose that credibility.

I do believe the transport industry would be better off without a union but an equally empowered and funded colleague forum, I suspect with the latter there’d be a lot less industrial dispute

I believe when I was at Deptford that management there did try and start colleague forums to meet with managers and discuss issues, improvements and other suggestions. This was a good few year ago (possibly before Covid).

There are employee surveys where management 'act' on results. We got pretty graphs and charts pinned on the walls. Not too much on the action front.

The nothing gets done about X Y Z so we don't bother and just get on with it approach from drivers happened as any suggestions seemed to fall on deaf ears. However depot management blamed higher up management and after my experiences, this may be the case. Communication is key and seems to be missing (from the top down). I have to say, under MG Communication was alot better.

(20 Nov 2023, 8:49 am)morritt89 wrote [ -> ]I believe when I was at Deptford that management there did try and start colleague forums to meet with managers and discuss issues, improvements and other suggestions. This was a good few year ago (possibly before Covid).

There are employee surveys where management 'act' on results. We got pretty graphs and charts pinned on the walls. Not too much on the action front.

The nothing gets done about X Y Z so we don't bother and just get on with it approach from drivers happened as any suggestions seemed to fall on deaf ears. However depot management blamed higher up management and after my experiences, this may be the case. Communication is key and seems to be missing (from the top down). I have to say, under MG Communication was alot better.

I used to like MGs Covid updates, we actually used one as an example of how a similar work social platform could work with interaction (viva engage) in a board presentation 

It’s quite frustrating when change doesn’t happen or at least reasons behind it not explained. It’s such a low cost win

(20 Nov 2023, 12:57 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I used to like MGs Covid updates, we actually used one as an example of how a similar work social platform could work with interaction (viva engage) in a board presentation 

It’s quite frustrating when change doesn’t happen or at least reasons behind it not explained. It’s such a low cost win

For all the two way comms thing and seeing improvements, it's also important that the messages are listened to from both sides. 

I'm managing a few projects at the moment and although not promising the world, I've got to be shown to be listening, interested and actually provide outcomes. 
However, what has become clear is that not everyone listens or potentially even understands the things I'm sharing. 
It might be down to me not communicating clearly, it may be down to others not listening or hearing things they want to hear. 

Either way, it's that culture you alluded to. 
It's not going to get any better without actually providing those demonstrative results.

On any nights of all nights.......23:00 307 ex Newcastle an unnanounced no show!

Go North East didn’t even bother to run the 41/41A this morning, terrible service.

(04 Dec 2023, 8:50 am)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Go North East didn’t even bother to run the 41/41A this morning, terrible service.

I know all the caveats of Bustimes etc but if it's tracking correctly then GNE is one hot mess right now. Cancellations are absolutely ripe across the whole company. Good thing they got an award for good driver retention though, must be a bad bug going around.

It's no wonder the cancellation list isn't being done right now as it would take hours to update.

(04 Dec 2023, 9:27 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]I know all the caveats of Bustimes etc but if it's tracking correctly then GNE is one hot mess right now. Cancellations are absolutely ripe across the whole company. Good thing they got an award for good driver retention though, must be a bad bug going around.

It's no wonder the cancellation list isn't being done right now as it would take hours to update.

Yeah they are a complete shambles, I was at the bus stop and heard a passenger was waiting over an hour for a 41/41A so would suggest bustimes is correct.

Agreed, the cancellation list would be shocking. It was bad enough before the strike.

Rare commute into Newcastle for me. Thought I'd leave it a bit later than normal.

2A was around 13 minutes late, which doesn't sound catastrophic, but the usual snowball effect follows due to the lack of high-frequency services we have.

I was aiming to be comfortably in the office by half 9, but ended up being 10am in the end.

I count myself lucky that I don't have to do this every day, if I don't want to, but I remember the ridiculousness of having to aim to get places an hour early to ensure I wasn't arriving late. I can't see why anyone would do this by choice.

Instead of bleating on about drivers being more productive, give them a realistic timetable to work to.

Currently sat at North Shields waiting on the 1 between Howdon and Whitley Bay there is no 1. The 1 is at Howdon and is the only bus that will be in Whitley Bay in 30 to 40 minutes

(04 Dec 2023, 12:58 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Currently sat at North Shields waiting on the 1 between Howdon and Whitley Bay there is no 1. The 1 is at Howdon and is the only bus that will be in Whitley Bay in 30 to 40 minutes

"We're being open and honest with you"
"There are no short-notice cancellations expected today."

Interesting definition of open and honest, given the various (real life, such as yours) reports of missing journeys today.

GNE comms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flsuGegfm6M

Must say it's interesting to note that most the Stagecoach and Arriva Northumbria issues have pretty much gone now and both are full running a full service today yet GNE are a shambles, be interesting whether it's angry GNE drivers which have moved across. Stagecoach Sunderland, in particular, has been a mess for ages.