North East Buses

The E400MMCs should be arriving in the North East, once they've finished doing rail replacements in Merseyside.

(10 Oct 2024, 10:31 pm)davao123 wrote [ -> ]The E400MMCs should be arriving in the North East, once they've finished doing rail replacements in Merseyside.

The first has reportedly arrived at Durham tonight in the form of YX16OJR (6545).

Will the e400 mmcs have new fleet numbers?

(11 Oct 2024, 5:24 am)NEbushopper wrote [ -> ]Will the e400 mmcs have new fleet numbers?

Yes, I believe YX16OJR is now 7585.

(10 Oct 2024, 10:48 pm)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]The first has reportedly arrived at Durham tonight in the form of YX16OJR (6545).

I believe its at Durham Bus Station at the minute for driver familiarisation

(11 Oct 2024, 10:26 am)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]Yes, I believe YX16OJR is now 7585.

Correct, just seen a photo on Facebook of it in Durham on driver familiarisation

To be fair, I'm surprised the don't just transfer some of Redcar's B9's to swap for more E400 MMC's that Durham are getting. I know some of the B9's are struggling a lot with the X93. But I don't know how good the 16 Plate ones that Durham are getting actually are.

(11 Oct 2024, 1:46 pm)Mike_98 wrote [ -> ]To be fair, I'm surprised the don't just transfer some of Redcar's B9's to swap for more E400 MMC's that Durham are getting. I know some of the B9's are struggling a lot with the X93. But I don't know how good the 16 Plate ones that Durham are getting actually are.

I'd say the X93 needs something less than 3 year old given for a route like that, any vehicle type would be on the front line for 5-7 years.

Best option would be:

- 6x B9TL to Blyth (with Euro 6 upgrade), they would be fine on the 43/44/45 and 306/308. Blyth expresses shouldn't be too much harder.
- 6x 14/64 plate E400 classics from Blyth to Ashington for use on anything except the X14/X15/X18. Could also be used on X16/X20.
- 6x 72 plate E400MMC from Ashington to Whitby/Redcar.

When will the ALXs by displaced/gone for? And I take it the X46 will no longer be MAX after?

(11 Oct 2024, 2:02 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I'd say the X93 needs something less than 3 year old given for a route like that, any vehicle type would be on the front line for 5-7 years.

Best option would be:

- 6x B9TL to Blyth (with Euro 6 upgrade), they would be fine on the 43/44/45 and 306/308. Blyth expresses shouldn't be too much harder.
- 6x 14/64 plate E400 classics from Blyth to Ashington for use on anything except the X14/X15/X18. Could also be used on X16/X20.
- 6x 72 plate E400MMC from Ashington to Whitby/Redcar.

The X15 and X18 also need something less than 3 year old aswell... The B9TL's at Blyth is an absolutely horrific idea aswell. Let's take away the most reliable vehicles at a depot which can't keep buses on the road as it is and replace them with the most unreliable vehicles in the fleet.

If you're going to do this.

6x B9TL -> Durham
6x 16 Plate MMC's -> Ashington
4x 72 Plate MMC's -> Redcar

Least Ashington gain some more deckers which they badly need in the process and is a fair compromise.

(11 Oct 2024, 6:28 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]The X15 and X18 also need something less than 3 year old aswell... The B9TL's at Blyth is an absolutely horrific idea aswell. Let's take away the most reliable vehicles at a depot which can't keep buses on the road as it is and replace them with the most unreliable vehicles in the fleet.

If you're going to do this.

6x B9TL -> Durham
6x 16 Plate MMC's -> Ashington
4x 72 Plate MMC's -> Redcar

Least Ashington gain some more deckers which they badly need in the process and is a fair compromise.

  Because Durham really needs to replace tatty, knackered old vehicles with even more tatty, knackered old vehicles. We might not have many fast routes but we have some pretty hilly ones and it would be nice to have some buses that don’t feel like they need passengers to get out and give them a push.

Have seen suggestion that Durham drivers are heading to Merseyside on Tuesday to pick those six up. Assume the rest from Kent will continue to arrive one by one as they get more of their new ones into service.


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(11 Oct 2024, 7:32 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Have seen suggestion that Durham drivers are heading to Merseyside on Tuesday to pick those six up. Assume the rest from Kent will continue to arrive one by one as they get more of their new ones into service.


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I did hear the 14th was the last day for them to be operated on Rails in Merseyside.

(11 Oct 2024, 7:24 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]  Because Durham really needs to replace tatty, knackered old vehicles with even more tatty, knackered old vehicles. We might not have many fast routes but we have some pretty hilly ones and it would be nice to have some buses that don’t feel like they need passengers to get out and give them a push.

Don't disagree, but you have to remember there's the electrics on order for the X46 etc so they'd only be a stop gap. Unless they've been cancelled? Haven't heard much about them tbh.

Take it the pulsar swap has started? Seen a Cotswold one on the 48.

(12 Oct 2024, 9:29 am)alexanderdennis0312933 wrote [ -> ]Take it the pulsar swap has started? Seen a Cotswold one on the 48.

1417 is presently at Durham - it was on-loan with a 7 board last week but is still there despite the working going back to Darlington.

(11 Oct 2024, 6:28 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]The X15 and X18 also need something less than 3 year old aswell... The B9TL's at Blyth is an absolutely horrific idea aswell. Let's take away the most reliable vehicles at a depot which can't keep buses on the road as it is and replace them with the most unreliable vehicles in the fleet.

If you're going to do this.

6x B9TL -> Durham
6x 16 Plate MMC's -> Ashington
4x 72 Plate MMC's -> Redcar

Least Ashington gain some more deckers which they badly need in the process and is a fair compromise.

The B9TL's wouldn't be anymore unreliable than the oldest DB300's & Classic E400 at Blyth. They'd definitely handle the 306/308 and 43/44/45 okay.

GNE are still using 6043-48 up / down the hills everyday from Derwentside on the 47 despite them being flogged to death for five years on the A19 and then used on the 10/10A/10B, still having to cover for 6308-14 on the X9/X10.

Saying that.....is there not a way Arriva could keep all the E400MMC's together in Northumbria including the ex Kent examples, with classic E400's going to Durham & Tees?

(12 Oct 2024, 10:21 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]The B9TL's wouldn't be anymore unreliable than the oldest DB300's & Classic E400 at Blyth. They'd definitely handle the 306/308 and 43/44/45 okay.

GNE are still using 6043-48 up / down the hills everyday from Derwentside on the 47 despite them being flogged to death for five years on the A19 and then used on the 10/10A/10B, still having to cover for 6308-14 on the X9/X10.

Saying that.....is there not a way Arriva could keep all the E400MMC's together in Northumbria including the ex Kent examples, with classic E400's going to Durham & Tees?

They'd 100% be worse mind. One of them hasn't moved an inch in years literally. 

I'd say try and get most the E400MMC's together. Wherever the B9's go are going to be a nuisance though as they're just crap now. Imo they'd be better elsewhere out the area with the rest of them with Arriva in the Midlands or Kent.

(12 Oct 2024, 10:17 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]1417 is presently at Durham - it was on-loan with a 7 board last week but is still there despite the working going back to Darlington.

Oh alright, cheers tho

(12 Oct 2024, 10:31 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]They'd 100% be worse mind. One of them hasn't moved an inch in years literally. 

I'd say try and get most the E400MMC's together. Wherever the B9's go are going to be a nuisance though as they're just crap now. Imo they'd be better elsewhere out the area with the rest of them with Arriva in the Midlands or Kent.

To be fair to them most of the B9s are out every day… 7402/3/5/6 are regular performers. 7401 is at Durham to be sorted, 7404 is regularly breaking and has been a ‘low mileage’ one this year…


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(12 Oct 2024, 10:54 am)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]To be fair to them most of the B9s are out every day… 7402/3/5/6 are regular performers. 7401 is at Durham to be sorted, 7404 is regularly breaking and has been a ‘low mileage’ one this year…


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Aye no arguments but the post I quoted wanted to replace the more reliable buses at Blyth. Now if we were talking about 7501-6/8 instead then there's definitely an argument but I'm not sure anyone would want them as they should be going to one place only and that's into baked bean cans

So is it the 13 Pulsar 1's which are left at Merseyside going to be going to Redcar to displace the Temsa's?

(12 Oct 2024, 2:32 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye no arguments but the post I quoted wanted to replace the more reliable buses at Blyth. Now if we were talking about 7501-6/8 instead then there's definitely an argument but I'm not sure anyone would want them as they should be going to one place only and that's into baked bean cans

Volvo's from the Olympian, B10BLE, B7TL, B7RLE right through to the B9TL have been known for their longevity (DDA permitting) even with years of abuse.

Post 1992 (end of the Leyland Olympian and introduction of the likes of the DAF DB250 and Volvo Olympian) the only deckers in the North East which have withstood more abuse than 7401-06 was Palatines 7370-7377, 6 years on the 602 then practically 8-9 years doing the 420, 501/505/518, X31/X32/X33. 

On the other hand, I know it's different having a 5 year caining up / down the A19 with predominant stress being placed on the engine and a few other components, as opposed to country roads with stress being placed on practically every component. They would be fine on the likes of the 43/44/45 and 306/308. But Blyth being Blyth like flexibility, so probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Obviously a lot of plans went t** up because of COVID, but Arriva had've invested in replacements for the X15, X18 and X93 back in 2020, the B9TLs then would've been perfect for something like the X20 with any surpluses either spare or forming the summer X93/X94 PVR. Put it quite simply, Arriva should've replaced the B9TL's before now.

(12 Oct 2024, 6:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Volvo's from the Olympian, B10BLE, B7TL, B7RLE right through to the B9TL have been known for their longevity (DDA permitting) even with years of abuse.

Post 1992 (end of the Leyland Olympian and introduction of the likes of the DAF DB250 and Volvo Olympian) the only deckers in the North East which have withstood more abuse than 7401-06 was Palatines 7370-7377, 6 years on the 602 then practically 8-9 years doing the 420, 501/505/518, X31/X32/X33. 

On the other hand, I know it's different having a 5 year caining up / down the A19 with predominant stress being placed on the engine and a few other components, as opposed to country roads with stress being placed on practically every component. They would be fine on the likes of the 43/44/45 and 306/308. But Blyth being Blyth like flexibility, so probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Obviously a lot of plans went t** up because of COVID, but Arriva had've invested in replacements for the X15, X18 and X93 back in 2020, the B9TLs then would've been perfect for something like the X20 with any surpluses either spare or forming the summer X93/X94 PVR. Put it quite simply, Arriva should've replaced the B9TL's before now.

The 43/44/45 keep being mentioned but they’re imminently due electrics. 

As well as 7370-7, Olympians 7410-3 in particular also got a hammering. I remember 7410 and 7413 in particular being consistent performers on the X20 right up until the end, when they would have been 16. 7414-20 lived a rather more sedate life at Jesmond in contrast. 

The B9TLs at this point are a non-standard batch of vehicles which have been hammered on the X93/4 for nearly 10 years and can’t work north of the Tyne without costly modifications. I wonder if the best place for them may be the X66/7 after some TLC?

(12 Oct 2024, 6:08 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Volvo's from the Olympian, B10BLE, B7TL, B7RLE right through to the B9TL have been known for their longevity (DDA permitting) even with years of abuse.

Post 1992 (end of the Leyland Olympian and introduction of the likes of the DAF DB250 and Volvo Olympian) the only deckers in the North East which have withstood more abuse than 7401-06 was Palatines 7370-7377, 6 years on the 602 then practically 8-9 years doing the 420, 501/505/518, X31/X32/X33. 

On the other hand, I know it's different having a 5 year caining up / down the A19 with predominant stress being placed on the engine and a few other components, as opposed to country roads with stress being placed on practically every component. They would be fine on the likes of the 43/44/45 and 306/308. But Blyth being Blyth like flexibility, so probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Obviously a lot of plans went t** up because of COVID, but Arriva had've invested in replacements for the X15, X18 and X93 back in 2020, the B9TLs then would've been perfect for something like the X20 with any surpluses either spare or forming the summer X93/X94 PVR. Put it quite simply, Arriva should've replaced the B9TL's before now.

See I don't think Blyth is the right place as it's a micro fleet of only 6 vehicles in a depot that has no allocation of 6 vehicles so would be a nuisance, not to mention the electrics are due soon anyway so it would be just back to square one. Similar with Ashington it's just another vehicle type for the sake of it on not the easiest routes in the world, especially the X20. 

If they were replaced by something new Durham is still the most sensible place imo, with some of the 09 Plates going to Darlington to give a much needed capacity boost there with 7510/7511/7512 being withdrawn and 7523 joining it's sisters at Blyth.

The 57 Plate Enviros are really shot to pieces and need to go aswell imo.  Obviously Blyth has the electrics if they ever turn up to replace the ones there, with hopefully the newer Enviros staying and the Pulsars leaving instead.

(12 Oct 2024, 7:48 pm)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]The 43/44/45 keep being mentioned but they’re imminently due electrics. 

As well as 7370-7, Olympians 7410-3 in particular also got a hammering. I remember 7410 and 7413 in particular being consistent performers on the X20 right up until the end, when they would have been 16. 7414-20 lived a rather more sedate life at Jesmond in contrast. 

The B9TLs at this point are a non-standard batch of vehicles which have been hammered on the X93/4 for nearly 10 years and can’t work north of the Tyne without costly modifications. I wonder if the best place for them may be the X66/7 after some TLC?

Totally forgot about the EV's for the 43/44/45 haha!

Well you say they can't but, just thought of the perfect use for them if they could hack Whorral Bank and Arriva made the service standalone again should any changes happen to the X21 in the future. And would still be compliant as the route doesn't go into the clean air zone either. But again, Northumbria needs flexibility so would be a no go.

The Volvo Olympians were absolute beasts though. That sound of the Cummins L10 while or the fumbling background noise of the Volvo D10-245 was immense. Why the heck did British Bus order Scania N113 Cityzens with an absolute shambles of a body, instead of following up Proudmutual's initial order of (7)370-(7)377!

British Bus had shares in East Lancs, so they tended to favour big bus products from there.

7583 (YX16OJS) has entered service with Durham, tracking as 1412, today.

Don't tell me Arriva are numbering them randomly.

How many E400MMC are there going to be in total from Kent?