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Adrian



9,567
10 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm #81
(10 Jan 2022, 5:43 pm)Bazza Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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Adrian
10 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm #81

(10 Jan 2022, 5:43 pm)Bazza Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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Bazza



201
10 Jan 2022, 10:32 pm #82
(10 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm)Adrian Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.
Bazza
10 Jan 2022, 10:32 pm #82

(10 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm)Adrian Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.

Adrian



9,567
10 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm #83
(10 Jan 2022, 10:32 pm)Bazza I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.

I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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Adrian
10 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm #83

(10 Jan 2022, 10:32 pm)Bazza I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.

I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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Bazza



201
10 Jan 2022, 11:02 pm #84
(10 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm)Adrian I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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We certainly agree on that.  I can see that you certainly didn’t assume guilt, unfortunately some other posters did. 

There is far too much trial by social media as it is.  If there has been a complaint made, Ticketer data and CCTV can be viewed and it can be dealt with appropriately.
Bazza
10 Jan 2022, 11:02 pm #84

(10 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm)Adrian I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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We certainly agree on that.  I can see that you certainly didn’t assume guilt, unfortunately some other posters did. 

There is far too much trial by social media as it is.  If there has been a complaint made, Ticketer data and CCTV can be viewed and it can be dealt with appropriately.

Wellsey18



225
10 Jan 2022, 11:55 pm #85
The whole overcrowding is far from ideal, but there’s a lot of arm chair management been thrown about this thread. I don’t know the full ins and outs but if this comes down from staff unless or not having staff there isn’t anything they can do but reduce services.

This seems to be common in the day and age at the minute, I work in hospitality and the lack of understanding or patience is beyond belief. This is yet another industry on its arse, if they don’t have the staff they don’t have the staff. It’s like going to a pub and people not understanding when there’s a queue yet there’s only two members of staff on the bar, people are fast to kick off, but yet don’t understand they’ve either struggled to hire, have x amount of people off, or people who won’t work!

Like I said I’ve skimmed a lot of this, but I’m guessing a lot of thought (and sacrifice) has had to go into their decision for the cuts.


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Wellsey18
10 Jan 2022, 11:55 pm #85

The whole overcrowding is far from ideal, but there’s a lot of arm chair management been thrown about this thread. I don’t know the full ins and outs but if this comes down from staff unless or not having staff there isn’t anything they can do but reduce services.

This seems to be common in the day and age at the minute, I work in hospitality and the lack of understanding or patience is beyond belief. This is yet another industry on its arse, if they don’t have the staff they don’t have the staff. It’s like going to a pub and people not understanding when there’s a queue yet there’s only two members of staff on the bar, people are fast to kick off, but yet don’t understand they’ve either struggled to hire, have x amount of people off, or people who won’t work!

Like I said I’ve skimmed a lot of this, but I’m guessing a lot of thought (and sacrifice) has had to go into their decision for the cuts.


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Ambassador



1,820
11 Jan 2022, 12:03 am #86
Standing upstairs and drivers ignorance to it isn't really anything new. It's hard to find a 21 that doesn't have folk sitting on stairs or tables on a match day once it hits Low Fell. On the old 724 the conductor used to charge you half the price if you were standing upstairs

Wistfully stuck in the 90s
Ambassador
11 Jan 2022, 12:03 am #86

Standing upstairs and drivers ignorance to it isn't really anything new. It's hard to find a 21 that doesn't have folk sitting on stairs or tables on a match day once it hits Low Fell. On the old 724 the conductor used to charge you half the price if you were standing upstairs


Wistfully stuck in the 90s

11 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm #87
Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days. And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.
stagecoachbusdepot
11 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm #87

Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days. And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.

Storx



4,483
11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm #88
(11 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days.  And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.

I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.
Storx
11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm #88

(11 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days.  And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.

I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
11 Jan 2022, 10:25 pm #89
(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.


Believe at least some of these have been covered. Website should be updated in the morning if the process works as it should do..!


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Dan
11 Jan 2022, 10:25 pm #89

(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.


Believe at least some of these have been covered. Website should be updated in the morning if the process works as it should do..!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

6049



259
11 Jan 2022, 11:05 pm #90
It's quite possible the supervisor or driver asked passengers to stand further back or go upstairs. In my experience, people will go upstairs and stay up there unless instructed otherwise even if there's no seats. It would be hard for the supervisor to see from off the bus whether anyone was stood upstairs. The camera would only show the stairs with the doors open anyway. I would be very surprised if anyone instructed anyone to stand upstairs.

I'd hazard a guess that this is simply a case of miscommunication. Those StreetDecks can carry about 100 legally and I highly doubt that you'd be able to exceed that - sure GNE have checked CCTV and Ticketer data which will probably confirm the bus wasn't overloaded - just people standing where they shouldn't due to miscommunication.

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6049
11 Jan 2022, 11:05 pm #90

It's quite possible the supervisor or driver asked passengers to stand further back or go upstairs. In my experience, people will go upstairs and stay up there unless instructed otherwise even if there's no seats. It would be hard for the supervisor to see from off the bus whether anyone was stood upstairs. The camera would only show the stairs with the doors open anyway. I would be very surprised if anyone instructed anyone to stand upstairs.

I'd hazard a guess that this is simply a case of miscommunication. Those StreetDecks can carry about 100 legally and I highly doubt that you'd be able to exceed that - sure GNE have checked CCTV and Ticketer data which will probably confirm the bus wasn't overloaded - just people standing where they shouldn't due to miscommunication.

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Adrian



9,567
12 Jan 2022, 8:58 am #91
(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.

Looks like it's been updated now. 07:05 and 13:40 also axed, but the 11:40 will start from the Galleries (so also axed, if you live on route before that point)

This again highlights the inflexibility of scheduling. The 85 is running pretty much all day, at a higher frequency, without disruption, yet the 82 is as much use as a chocolate teapot today. 

Washington looks like it's taking a beating in terms of sickness.

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Adrian
12 Jan 2022, 8:58 am #91

(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.

Looks like it's been updated now. 07:05 and 13:40 also axed, but the 11:40 will start from the Galleries (so also axed, if you live on route before that point)

This again highlights the inflexibility of scheduling. The 85 is running pretty much all day, at a higher frequency, without disruption, yet the 82 is as much use as a chocolate teapot today. 

Washington looks like it's taking a beating in terms of sickness.


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Andreos1



14,155
12 Jan 2022, 10:22 am #92
(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.
So as well as not being able to get a bus  TO Birtley (due to the route the 82 takes), the residents of Blackfell Way and the like now can't get a bus FROM Birtley. Unless they happen to hit on the few boards which actually are running.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
12 Jan 2022, 10:22 am #92

(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10


That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.
So as well as not being able to get a bus  TO Birtley (due to the route the 82 takes), the residents of Blackfell Way and the like now can't get a bus FROM Birtley. Unless they happen to hit on the few boards which actually are running.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

BusLoverMum



5,277
12 Jan 2022, 8:32 pm #93
(11 Jan 2022, 12:03 am)Ambassador Standing upstairs and drivers ignorance to it isn't really anything new. It's hard to find a 21 that doesn't have folk sitting on stairs or tables on a match day once it hits Low Fell. On the old 724 the conductor used to charge you half the price if you were standing upstairs
Yes, pre-pandemic, there were often people standing on stairwells and upstairs on the 21 on a Sunday morning. And definitely no free seats.
BusLoverMum
12 Jan 2022, 8:32 pm #93

(11 Jan 2022, 12:03 am)Ambassador Standing upstairs and drivers ignorance to it isn't really anything new. It's hard to find a 21 that doesn't have folk sitting on stairs or tables on a match day once it hits Low Fell. On the old 724 the conductor used to charge you half the price if you were standing upstairs
Yes, pre-pandemic, there were often people standing on stairwells and upstairs on the 21 on a Sunday morning. And definitely no free seats.

GNE6312



1,091
12 Jan 2022, 10:38 pm #94
(08 Jan 2022, 4:46 pm)mb134 And? As a driver that isn't their problem.

Put a "Bus Full" display on, as many ANE buses I saw today did, and direct any complaints to customer services.
Arriva's capacity control is really good atm, like when they had a pulsar on the X7 school run they only let it get to 6 standing and fully seated before bus fulling, I also saw an Ashington express bus full with none (,or verry few) standees which is atm a good decision.
GNE6312
12 Jan 2022, 10:38 pm #94

(08 Jan 2022, 4:46 pm)mb134 And? As a driver that isn't their problem.

Put a "Bus Full" display on, as many ANE buses I saw today did, and direct any complaints to customer services.
Arriva's capacity control is really good atm, like when they had a pulsar on the X7 school run they only let it get to 6 standing and fully seated before bus fulling, I also saw an Ashington express bus full with none (,or verry few) standees which is atm a good decision.

BusLoverMum



5,277
12 Jan 2022, 11:54 pm #95
Good use of the bus full signs is made on the 64. Though despite the halving of the service, that's only at peak times, now, as people have all but given up on it if they have to pay.
BusLoverMum
12 Jan 2022, 11:54 pm #95

Good use of the bus full signs is made on the 64. Though despite the halving of the service, that's only at peak times, now, as people have all but given up on it if they have to pay.

Adrian



9,567
13 Jan 2022, 9:44 am #96
Watford on Saturday is now sold out at SJP. Hopefully there'll have been a lessons learned from last weekend and a plan in place.

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Adrian
13 Jan 2022, 9:44 am #96

Watford on Saturday is now sold out at SJP. Hopefully there'll have been a lessons learned from last weekend and a plan in place.


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Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
13 Jan 2022, 12:53 pm #97
(13 Jan 2022, 9:44 am)Adrian Watford on Saturday is now sold out at SJP. Hopefully there'll have been a lessons learned from last weekend and a plan in place.

I understand the X1 has a planned duplicate. No other services reached capacity last Saturday (and indeed the reported example from last weekend did not fully reach the vehicle's standee capacity either - the duplicate is mainly being planned out of concern for Covid, with so many customers ignoring guidance on wearing masks).

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned though - it's quite a pessimistic personal view, but you can chuck as much resource you like at Saturday, but it'll result in cancellations next week instead. There are no winners right now, and I'd imagine it's difficult to choose who the losers are when working with such limited resource, within the constraints of scheduled and inflexible shifts.
Dan
13 Jan 2022, 12:53 pm #97

(13 Jan 2022, 9:44 am)Adrian Watford on Saturday is now sold out at SJP. Hopefully there'll have been a lessons learned from last weekend and a plan in place.

I understand the X1 has a planned duplicate. No other services reached capacity last Saturday (and indeed the reported example from last weekend did not fully reach the vehicle's standee capacity either - the duplicate is mainly being planned out of concern for Covid, with so many customers ignoring guidance on wearing masks).

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned though - it's quite a pessimistic personal view, but you can chuck as much resource you like at Saturday, but it'll result in cancellations next week instead. There are no winners right now, and I'd imagine it's difficult to choose who the losers are when working with such limited resource, within the constraints of scheduled and inflexible shifts.

Bazza



201
13 Jan 2022, 3:10 pm #98
(13 Jan 2022, 12:53 pm)Dan I understand the X1 has a planned duplicate. No other services reached capacity last Saturday (and indeed the reported example from last weekend did not fully reach the vehicle's standee capacity either - the duplicate is mainly being planned out of concern for Covid, with so many customers ignoring guidance on wearing masks).

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned though - it's quite a pessimistic personal view, but you can chuck as much resource you like at Saturday, but it'll result in cancellations next week instead. There are no winners right now, and I'd imagine it's difficult to choose who the losers are when working with such limited resource, within the constraints of scheduled and inflexible shifts.

Surely the shifts are inflexible due to legislation and the need to run scheduled services. 

Are GNE looking at ways of changing the drivers working conditions to make them less inflexible?  If so, will that not just exacerbate the morale and retention problems?
Bazza
13 Jan 2022, 3:10 pm #98

(13 Jan 2022, 12:53 pm)Dan I understand the X1 has a planned duplicate. No other services reached capacity last Saturday (and indeed the reported example from last weekend did not fully reach the vehicle's standee capacity either - the duplicate is mainly being planned out of concern for Covid, with so many customers ignoring guidance on wearing masks).

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned though - it's quite a pessimistic personal view, but you can chuck as much resource you like at Saturday, but it'll result in cancellations next week instead. There are no winners right now, and I'd imagine it's difficult to choose who the losers are when working with such limited resource, within the constraints of scheduled and inflexible shifts.

Surely the shifts are inflexible due to legislation and the need to run scheduled services. 

Are GNE looking at ways of changing the drivers working conditions to make them less inflexible?  If so, will that not just exacerbate the morale and retention problems?

V514DFT



2,226
13 Jan 2022, 7:15 pm #99
(11 Jan 2022, 10:25 pm)Dan Believe at least some of these have been covered. Website should be updated in the morning if the process works as it should do..!


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I know Stanley Travel helped out on the 47 yesterday (Wednesday 12th January 2022)

Kind Regards
Tez
V514DFT
13 Jan 2022, 7:15 pm #99

(11 Jan 2022, 10:25 pm)Dan Believe at least some of these have been covered. Website should be updated in the morning if the process works as it should do..!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I know Stanley Travel helped out on the 47 yesterday (Wednesday 12th January 2022)


Kind Regards
Tez

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
13 Jan 2022, 9:30 pm #100
(13 Jan 2022, 7:15 pm)V514DFT I know Stanley Travel helped out on the 47 yesterday (Wednesday 12th January 2022)


They’re covering two Consett duties daily at present.

A-line and JH also helping out with ad-hoc work. Predominantly Washington this week.


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Dan
13 Jan 2022, 9:30 pm #100

(13 Jan 2022, 7:15 pm)V514DFT I know Stanley Travel helped out on the 47 yesterday (Wednesday 12th January 2022)


They’re covering two Consett duties daily at present.

A-line and JH also helping out with ad-hoc work. Predominantly Washington this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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