Go North East - Future Order Predictions

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(15 Aug 2020, 11:48 am)JP6004 Wrote: Believe the plan was to remove all 07 bluestar citaros and the 06 plates. However with 53 vehicles acquired over the next few months, expect about the same number to be withdrawn, which include quite a few citaros

Yeah that's what I heard, wouldn't be surprised to see the whole batch at Riverside go to be prepared for the LEZ that's coming in but can't see Deptford's going for awhile tbh  bar maybe the few on the 61 (upgrade it to Drifter).
(15 Aug 2020, 11:40 am)Storx Wrote: At the cost of the 13 going hourly instead though, quite a large capacity decrease from Langley Park really, 3 full size singles (quite often deckers) to 1 full size single (sometimes a decker) and 2 minibuses an hour but Langley Park probably doesn't need 3 full size buses to Durham; Sacriston, Plawsworth and Witton Gilbert have their own routes (X5/X15 - 16 - 21/X21/50).

Apologies it was the Pronto B7's my mistake.


Has there ever been plans for the Citaros on the 9, 35 and 55 to be removed this year. Agreed on ex London stock though (hopefully nothing stupid like last time - Dual Door Vikings on the 21) mainly to get arid of the remaining B7TL's and Omnidekkas for schools.

Deptford will probables keep them now, due to the Streetlites being able to be upgraded to Euro 6 because of this i would imagine the 10 Red Kite Streetlites will end up on a Newcastle route (although the Enviro zone is delayed due to Covid-19).

(15 Aug 2020, 11:57 am)Storx Wrote: Yeah that's what I heard, wouldn't be surprised to see the whole batch at Riverside go to be prepared for the LEZ that's coming in but can't see Deptford's going for awhile tbh  bar maybe the few on the 61 (upgrade it to Drifter).

The Citaro's can't be upgraded to Euro 6, which means we're likely to see all the Crusader/Tynedale express and 5481 - 5487 (5481-87, i think they were confirmed to be going anyway) all withdrawn by the end of October.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(15 Aug 2020, 11:57 am)Storx Wrote: Yeah that's what I heard, wouldn't be surprised to see the whole batch at Riverside go to be prepared for the LEZ that's coming in but can't see Deptford's going for awhile tbh  bar maybe the few on the 61 (upgrade it to Drifter).
I wouldn't say all of them will go just yet, but a fair chunk will. But I'd imagine they'd still want to get rid of bluestar ones as they have lower capacity and the 06 plates are horrendous.
I'm also sure it was confirmed, the 58 would get the next batch of electric buses, but what make, wasn't confirmed, i would imagine these will be ordered as part of the next order.

I think we're likely to see mainly Mini/single deckers than double deckers on the next order, mainly Solo's and something to replace the Citaros, the Omnicities at Washington has to remain in service due to having the Euro 6 upgrade... so they'll hang around abit longer.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(15 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm)Michael Wrote: I'm also sure it was confirmed, the 58 would get the next batch of electric buses, but what make, wasn't confirmed, i would imagine these will be ordered as part of the next order.

I think we're likely to see mainly Mini/single deckers than double deckers on the next order, mainly Solo's and something to replace the Citaros, the Omnicities at Washington has to remain in service due to having the Euro 6 upgrade... so they'll hang around abit longer.
Depends if they plan to upgrade any more single deck routes to DD...
(15 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm)JP6004 Wrote: Depends if they plan to upgrade any more single deck routes to DD...

That's true, since the cascade plans have changed due to Covid-19.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(15 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm)Michael Wrote: I'm also sure it was confirmed, the 58 would get the next batch of electric buses, but what make, wasn't confirmed, i would imagine these will be ordered as part of the next order.

I think we're likely to see mainly Mini/single deckers than double deckers on the next order, mainly Solo's and something to replace the Citaros, the Omnicities at Washington has to remain in service due to having the Euro 6 upgrade... so they'll hang around abit longer.
I don't know if they'll be buying from Optare for the minibuses. Given that Reading Buses recently cancelled their order for Metrodeckers because they were taking too long, even before COVID - 19, I doubt they'd want to wait a year or so for some Solos, where E200s can be made and delivered within a few months. 

Most routes can easily handle the mini E200 MMCs, and with the Green Arrow buses & new X-lines E400 MMCs, there would be more common parts, so easier to replace etc. if more E200s were bought. Plus the E200 MMCs feel like a bigger bus than the solo, something that people often prefer! Slightly bigger E200s might have more seats for better social distancing even if COVID doesn't last for too long.
After this big influx of DD which completes the X-Lines specification for the routes apart from the coaches for the X9/10 i cant see anymore DD routes getting new buses soon, any upgrades from newer buses are most likely be from cascades from elsewhere, single deck vehicles is the only logical next part for investment to replace the older not so eco friendly vehicles allowing them to be withdrawn/sold, this will probably be a long process over a few years as there will be no big hurry to spend millions on new vehicles at present but i would be surprised if anything other than MMC200s was ordered
(15 Aug 2020, 12:26 pm)Adtrainsam Wrote: Plus the E200 MMCs feel like a bigger bus than the solo, something that people often prefer! Slightly bigger E200s might have more seats for better social distancing even if COVID doesn't last for too long.

These sorts of local small bus routes are also the ones that seem to be bouncing back the strongest, in terms of passenger numbers. I've noticed in and around Newcastle that while, for example, an X9/X10 or an ANE Blyth express might leave with a handful on board, some of the ANE local services have hit capacity before departure from Haymarket and a decker has been promptly put on instead.
(15 Aug 2020, 12:00 pm)Michael Wrote: Deptford will probables keep them now, due to the Streetlites being able to be upgraded to Euro 6 because of this i would imagine the 10 Red Kite Streetlites will end up on a Newcastle route (although the Enviro zone is delayed due to Covid-19).


The Citaro's can't be upgraded to Euro 6, which means we're likely to see all the Crusader/Tynedale express and 5481 - 5487 (5481-87, i think they were confirmed to be going anyway) all withdrawn by the end of October.

I'm sure First York have had there Mercedes Citaro Artics upgraded to Euro 6 on their P&R Services. - Preventia offer Euro 6 Retrofit options for various vehicle types including the Citaros as shown in the link below.

https://www.proventia.com/uk_-_retrofit

G
o North East prefer to use Eminox and have done for some years now dating back to when the Scania L94's were done, I don't think Eminox offer a Euro 6 upgrade option for the Citaros which probably why we've been told they cannot be upgraded to Euro 6.
(16 Aug 2020, 2:40 pm)Malarkey Wrote: I'm sure First York have had there Mercedes Citaro Artics upgraded to Euro 6 on their P&R Services. - Preventia offer Euro 6 Retrofit options for various vehicle types including the Citaros as shown in the link below.

https://www.proventia.com/uk_-_retrofit

G
o North East prefer to use Eminox and have done for some years now dating back to when the Scania L94's were done, I don't think Eminox offer a Euro 6 upgrade option for the Citaros which probably why we've been told they cannot be upgraded to Euro 6.
Citaro's are very heavy on the fuel though and expensive for parts. It's no wonder GoNE are looking to get rid.
Did GNE not take the fuel consumption and price of parts into account before purchase?
(16 Aug 2020, 3:50 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: Citaro's are very heavy on the fuel though and expensive for parts. It's no wonder GoNE are looking to get rid.

I know it's a shame that they are looking to get rid as they are cracking buses, I think when some do leave they'll end up with East Yorkshire as they have 04/54reg B7RLE's and some awful sounding 56reg E300's that should be disposed of.

Alternatively Plymouth Citybus would be a good shout with the expansion around Cornwall, again these have old Single Deckers still active in the form of Dennis Dart SPD's which iirc are 02/52/03/53 reg.
(16 Aug 2020, 3:50 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: Citaro's are very heavy on the fuel though and expensive for parts. It's no wonder GoNE are looking to get rid.

Is there any proof of this? Maybe they're not as efficient as smaller buses such as the E200 but that really goes without saying.
(16 Aug 2020, 4:09 pm)Big O Wrote: Is there any proof of this? Maybe they're not as efficient as smaller buses such as the E200 but that really goes without saying.
We had to replace the door button on the dash on the one we had at Stagecarriage and it was something silly like £200.

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(16 Aug 2020, 3:59 pm)Malarkey Wrote: I know it's a shame that they are looking to get rid as they are cracking buses, I think when some do leave they'll end up with East Yorkshire as they have 04/54reg B7RLE's and some awful sounding 56reg E300's that should be disposed of.

Alternatively Plymouth Citybus would be a good shout with the expansion around Cornwall, again these have old Single Deckers still active in the form of Dennis Dart SPD's which iirc are 02/52/03/53 reg.

The Citaros, particularly the refurbed ones with the leather seats, are some of the most uncomfortable buses I've ever had the displeasure of using. 
I took the 27 from South Shields to Gateshead, and during that journey I had to change seats three times because it felt like I was sitting on a piece of metal.
I don't know what they did when they were refurbishing them, but I'm fairly sure there is less padding in the seats than when they left.
(16 Aug 2020, 4:39 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: The Citaros, particularly the refurbed ones with the leather seats, are some of the most uncomfortable buses I've ever had the displeasure of using. 
I took the 27 from South Shields to Gateshead, and during that journey I had to change seats three times because it felt like I was sitting on a piece of metal.
I don't know what they did when they were refurbishing them, but I'm fairly sure there is less padding in the seats than when they left.

Definitely less padding on seats following refurb as you can feel the base metal of seat when sat down now whereas previously there was a lot of padding with comfort on par with Geminis in the fleet in my opinion.
(16 Aug 2020, 4:52 pm)Malarkey Wrote: Definitely less padding on seats following refurb as you can feel the base metal of seat when sat down now whereas previously there was a lot of padding with comfort on par with Geminis in the fleet in my opinion.

I thought so, I used to use the Citaros all the time on the 49 and I don't remember them being that uncomfortable!

I mean, I do like the Citaros as a vehicle, but they way they have them at the minute make them just intolerable for me. 

Weirdly enough, the only seats on them that I can use for an extended period of time is the two front seats, they have basically no padding at all, but the shape of them makes them a lot nicer to sit in.
Could see some Citaros being replaced by newer Citaros from the GAL fleet which will become available at some point next year. The C2 models are more fuel-efficient and reliable than the Euro4 models which GNE currently have.
(16 Aug 2020, 8:10 pm)Big O Wrote: Could see some Citaros being replaced by newer Citaros from the GAL fleet which will become available at some point next year. The C2 models are more fuel-efficient and reliable than the Euro4 models which GNE currently have.
I thought GNE were looking to get rid of Citaros altogether. There are 15 65-plate Citaros in Orpington that could transfer up, but they'd need a full refurb etc. and would those costs justify second hand vehicles which would be going after ~7 years anyway. I don't think GNE will be wanting more Citaros, as much as I like them as an enthusiast. They might as well just opt for brand new buses that have double the life span, cheaper to run and have the benefit of a standardized fleet. I think GAL would give the Orpington Citaros to somewhere like Plymouth or East Anglia as well as the Connections 4 batch that will only be here another few years.