Max Brand
#41
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 10:25 am)tvd Wrote: I'd like to see any of the operators try the odd new route and challenge another company's area maybe.

Once things reopen, people will looking to make the most of the summer and have trips out to the coast.  Arriva could consider extending from Scarborough to the holiday camps, Filey and Bridlington as a limited summer service.  Scarborough & District now part of Go North East could try competing, have the odd run through to Whitby/Middlesbrough, connect with their X9/X10 and promote some day returns.

I suspect not much will happen, but if I was in charge I'd at least be considering any numbers of ideas that get people back to using buses, or attract new customers.  The decline in the industry may be inevitable, but I think without trying new things - which could be ticket offers, not just new routes - the decline is pretty much certain to continue. 

There needs to be so much done on this imo. 
I don't think the industry thinks beyond interiors (and some operators - liveries and/or blinds).
They think interiors will fix everything. I don't think that is the case at all. 
Creativity and thinking differently will and can make a difference imo. 

Passengers are stuck with a network which was developed however many years ago. It hasn't changed or evolved to meet passenger needs. 
Whilst there may be an increase if a new bus rocks up which has pleather seats, plugs and WiFi - I don't see how those methods will sustain numbers once passengers realise that it's the same as it always was. It just has a different label and a slightly different recipe. 

I was reading that R&C Council are looking in to introducing pay and display parking across Saltburn to combat/take advantage all of the visitors travelling by car.
That's despite two trains an hour and 8/9 buses an hour passing through the town. 
If people can't get to Saltburn using public transport at all or very easily (maybe they can via 2 buses, hanging around waiting for connections in Boro or Redcar AND then a walk), it doesn't matter how nice the interior is or what sort of competition there is - they're not going to use anything other than the car.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#42
RE: Max Brand
At the risk of drifting off topic, apologies if so, I feel as if there is a 'group think' within large parts of the industry. Where I, as a potential passenger (not customer), am told what I want. All of the frilly stuff. Your fancy brands, wifi etc. But in actual fact, I don't want any of it. Yes, there's a place for it on certain services - your Arriva inter urban expresses as an example - but for the most part it's superfluous. A gimmick. I'm exactly the sort of person the industry should be chasing, yet if I didn't have an interest I wouldn't get the bus at all. It's an inconvenience when my car isn't available. For me, the industry needs to shift away from the 'a bus journey is a purchase of choice' mentality back to a 'provide a public service' mentality.

#43
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 1:10 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: There needs to be so much done on this imo. 
I don't think the industry thinks beyond interiors (and some operators - liveries and/or blinds).
They think interiors will fix everything. I don't think that is the case at all. 
Creativity and thinking differently will and can make a difference imo. 

Passengers are stuck with a network which was developed however many years ago. It hasn't changed or evolved to meet passenger needs. 
Whilst there may be an increase if a new bus rocks up which has pleather seats, plugs and WiFi - I don't see how those methods will sustain numbers once passengers realise that it's the same as it always was. It just has a different label and a slightly different recipe. 

I was reading that R&C Council are looking in to introducing pay and display parking across Saltburn to combat/take advantage all of the visitors travelling by car.
That's despite two trains an hour and 8/9 buses an hour passing through the town. 
If people can't get to Saltburn using public transport at all or very easily (maybe they can via 2 buses, hanging around waiting for connections in Boro or Redcar AND then a walk), it doesn't matter how nice the interior is or what sort of competition there is - they're not going to use anything other than the car.

For me, the biggest barrier for using the bus for everything is definitely ticketing. 
As I've said before, most of my travel can be done with GNE despite the only GNE service in my area being the X21 (during normal times I'd be up and down to Newcastle several times a week). But the rest of my travel I really do need an Arriva ticket, so I'm stuck buying both an Arriva and GNE ticket separately.
I'm not paying £11 a day for the Network One ticket since it's cheaper for me to buy both day tickets.
They say they're going to introduce a Durham SmartZone ticket, but I'm guessing it won't be any use for me since it'd then still have to buy another ticket to use when I go up to Newcastle.

The thing is though, I honestly can't think of a way to solve the problem in a way that would be better for my use case than just buying an Arriva and GNE ticket!

#44
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 1:47 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: For me, the biggest barrier for using the bus for everything is definitely ticketing. 
As I've said before, most of my travel can be done with GNE despite the only GNE service in my area being the X21 (during normal times I'd be up and down to Newcastle several times a week). But the rest of my travel I really do need an Arriva ticket, so I'm stuck buying both an Arriva and GNE ticket separately.
I'm not paying £11 a day for the Network One ticket since it's cheaper for me to buy both day tickets.
They say they're going to introduce a Durham SmartZone ticket, but I'm guessing it won't be any use for me since it'd then still have to buy another ticket to use when I go up to Newcastle.

The thing is though, I honestly can't think of a way to solve the problem in a way that would be better for my use case than just buying an Arriva and GNE ticket!

I think ticket prices and offerings are part of the solution. 
However I don't think they're THE solution. 

I've been a long-time advocate of more attractive pricing and feel GNE have made a start on improving their package.
Whether other operators look to improve theirs, time will tell. 
I've called out ANE on some of their offerings in the past, elsewhere. An example of this would be a family ticket between Redcar/Saltburn and Whitby.
A trip of 20 or so miles requires a regionwide ticket - the same ticket would get you all the way to Berwick and back (assuming connections and journey times worked).

However, routes and connections are more important imo.
In another thread I mentioned the 78 and X21. Someone travelling from the Bournmoor/Lambton Estate/Biddick Woods type area to Durham takes 20mins in the car or the best part of an hour on the bus (including connections). Then there's the trip back after work. Two hours of the day lost vs 40mins in the car. 
Is it that unrealistic to expect the trip on the bus to work out similar (slightly longer perhaps)?

For the purposes of balance, the same can be said about getting to Redcar or Saltburn for a day out at the beach. It's 20mins in the car from the likes of Ingleby Barwick or Marton - yet more than an hour using public transport, including any time changing and hanging around in Boro. 
Then there's the trip back. 

The tickets can be as cheap as you make them. Install as many bus lanes and priority measures as you want. As many pleather seats as you can squeeze in, plugs, WiFi, pointless tweaks to blinds, funky liveries and some green leaves on the side - public transport is never going to win in those two cases unfortunately.
That's just two examples. There's many, many more.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#45
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 3:52 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: I think ticket prices and offerings are part of the solution. 
However I don't think they're THE solution. 

I've been a long-time advocate of more attractive pricing and feel GNE have made a start on improving their package.
Whether other operators look to improve theirs, time will tell. 
I've called out ANE on some of their offerings in the past, elsewhere. An example of this would be a family ticket between Redcar/Saltburn and Whitby.
A trip of 20 or so miles requires a regionwide ticket - the same ticket would get you all the way to Berwick and back (assuming connections and journey times worked).

However, routes and connections are more important imo.
In another thread I mentioned the 78 and X21. Someone travelling from the Bournmoor/Lambton Estate/Biddick Woods type area to Durham takes 20mins in the car or the best part of an hour on the bus (including connections). Then there's the trip back after work. Two hours of the day lost vs 40mins in the car. 
Is it that unrealistic to expect the trip on the bus to work out similar (slightly longer perhaps)?

For the purposes of balance, the same can be said about getting to Redcar or Saltburn for a day out at the beach. It's 20mins in the car from the likes of Ingleby Barwick or Marton - yet more than an hour using public transport, including any time changing and hanging around in Boro. 
Then there's the trip back. 

The tickets can be as cheap as you make them. Install as many bus lanes and priority measures as you want. As many pleather seats as you can squeeze in, plugs, WiFi, pointless tweaks to blinds, funky liveries and some green leaves on the side - public transport is never going to win in those two cases unfortunately.
That's just two examples. There's many, many more.

For the journey that I do, if I were to take the car it would take 40 minutes (you can do it in about 30 minutes if you need to), on the bus it takes over 2 hours! (including connections). 
I personally don't mind the journey because like I've said before, for an hour and a half of that time I'm on a bus with tables so I can get some work done, so for me it actually works out about the same as if I'd sat at home and did the work then took the car, except at a considerably lower cost.
But for people who aren't me it probably won't make sense!

#46
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 4:21 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: For the journey that I do, if I were to take the car it would take 40 minutes (you can do it in about 30 minutes if you need to), on the bus it takes over 2 hours! (including connections). 
I personally don't mind the journey because like I've said before, for an hour and a half of that time I'm on a bus with tables so I can get some work done, so for me it actually works out about the same as if I'd sat at home and did the work then took the car, except at a considerably lower cost.
But for people who aren't me it probably won't make sense! 

Particularly if they've got their kids in tow and are off on a day out Wink
However for those who are commuting, it's not the sort of thing you can do squashed on a streetlite travelling through Lumley - before packing it all up for 20mins and then getting it back out for another 20mins on the X21.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#47
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 4:30 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: Particularly if they've got their kids in tow and are off on a day out Wink
However for those who are commuting, it's not the sort of thing you can do squashed on a streetlite travelling through Lumley - before packing it all up for 20mins and then getting it back out for another 20mins on the X21.

Actually, if you sit at the emergency exit (which is the only seat worth sitting at because A: it has leg room, and B: If you lean up against the door, it stops the rattle), then there is actually enough room to get a laptop out!
The only downside is the person setting above you can see exactly what you're doing.

#48
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 5:58 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Actually, if you sit at the emergency exit (which is the only seat worth sitting at because A: it has leg room, and B: If you lean up against the door, it stops the rattle), then there is actually enough room to get a laptop out!
The only downside is the person setting above you can see exactly what you're doing.

Was on a plane back from Europe once, aisle seat.  Diagonally across the aisle from me, and in the row in front, was one of the managers from the same company as me.  Laptop open, confidential personnel documents visible .......  I was VERY careful to keep my eyes averted!

#49
RE: Max Brand
Am going off topic a bit so maybe should start a new thread about what Arriva and others can do to increase bus usage.

#50
RE: Max Brand
(05 Mar 2021, 9:55 am)tvd Wrote: Am going off topic a bit so maybe should start a new thread about what Arriva and others can do to increase bus usage.

There's a thread elsewhere in the forum about the decline in passenger numbers. 
Could that work?
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#51
RE: Max Brand
(04 Mar 2021, 7:20 pm)Ianthegoon Wrote: Was on a plane back from Europe once, aisle seat.  Diagonally across the aisle from me, and in the row in front, was one of the managers from the same company as me.  Laptop open, confidential personnel documents visible .......  I was VERY careful to keep my eyes averted!

You're a better person than me! I'd have got the camera out!
I only ever have confidential files open if there's nobody behind me, and even then I make the text small enough so I can barely read it!

#52
RE: Max Brand
Still on all the x12s and saw an x66/x67 on the x12, the other day. 

More to the point, it might change in the brave new post-covid world but arriva are paying little attention to branding, atm.

(26 Feb 2021, 1:31 am)peter Wrote: The 43/44/45 upgrade also coincided with complaints from the residents of Gosforth about the poor environmental standard of the Great North Road ALX400's which previously operated on those routes. The arrival of the MMCs and the displacement of the older X21/22 E400's (some of which were a bit worse for wear after use on the X93 in the past) aligned perfectly with the requested removal of those elderly ex-london ALX400's and sticking them on a double-deck route that wouldn't be too taxing, rather than it being a genuine desire to upgrade them to 'Sapphire.' If they hadn't been Sapphire already, I doubt they would have been upgraded for those routes specifically, but the fact that they were would have been a bonus for passengers and possibly helped to improve patronage/public perception considering the previous option were W/X/Y-reg standard spec vehicles.
Yet Durham is still stuck with them.

#53
RE: Max Brand
(07 Mar 2021, 12:43 am)BusLoverMum Wrote: Yet Durham is still stuck with them.

In fairness, the ALX400's Durham have are 55-reg, MAX standard and Euro 3 which is a tad better than W/X/Y-reg, bog standard and Euro 2! Having said that, with those older ones going in 2017, you'd hope the 55-reg ones were stood down sooner rather than later!

#54
RE: Max Brand
(07 Mar 2021, 2:28 pm)peter Wrote: In fairness, the ALX400's Durham have are 55-reg, MAX standard and Euro 3 which is a tad better than W/X/Y-reg, bog standard and Euro 2! Having said that, with those older ones going in 2017, you'd hope the 55-reg ones were stood down sooner rather than later!
Plenty of 51 and 02 plate B7s still going so they'll be looking for at least another 3 or 4 years out of them.

#55
RE: Max Brand
3 of my 4 Arriva rides this week were MAX vehicles: 7511 on route X20, 7605 on route X10 and 1495 on route 306. My other ride was 1575 on route 52.

#56
RE: Max Brand
Seeing as the 43/44/45 have branded MAX E400's, what is the PVR of the 3 routes? 
And do they really require double deckers? as I see more single deckers on them.

Edit : *I meant Sapphire

#57
RE: Max Brand
Not sure but the 45 PVR and 44 is 3 I think. Deckers are needed for the 43 but not sure on the 44. 45 I guess so