Go North East respond after bus drivers hit out over pay rise
Go North East respond after bus drivers hit out over pay rise
It's a hard one this in parts...
Hard to justify a payrise when you've been effectively nationalised for the past year.
Increase in labour costs naturally drives up other costs which is then passed onto Customers who in parts are already on the receiving end of some fairly large fares and will look at other options where they can.
Customer habits are changing and income streams with them. You have to invest (paint jobs, £1 fare promo, commercial tie ups with English Heritage etc etc) to attract Customers otherwise numbers dwindle to those who uses buses out of 'no choice' and then you're off down the job centre.
I'm not being funny, but a pay rise of 2% equates to around an extra £8 a week assuming you're earning £20k a year.
I'd be embarrassed to go on strike or quit over that.
(07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am)Storx To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.
(07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am)Storx To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.
I know I'm probably going to get shit for saying this, but... Bus drivers have had it easy over the pandemic compared to a lot of other industries.
They've been some of the most protected from the virus, working completely behind screens, not taking cash etc. People working in the likes of Tesco don't have that luxury, even those working on checkouts aren't really that enclosed, the screens are just there to give the illusion of safety
Their industry has been propped up by the government while others have had very little support so they haven't had to worry about losing their job. And as buses were still running, a lot of drivers didn't even have to deal with a 20% drop in earnings from furlough.
(07 Jul 2021, 12:02 pm)streetdeckfan I know I'm probably going to get shit for saying this, but... Bus drivers have had it easy over the pandemic compared to a lot of other industries.
They've been some of the most protected from the virus, working completely behind screens, not taking cash etc. People working in the likes of Tesco don't have that luxury, even those working on checkouts aren't really that enclosed, the screens are just there to give the illusion of safety
Their industry has been propped up by the government while others have had very little support so they haven't had to worry about losing their job. And as buses were still running, a lot of drivers didn't even have to deal with a 20% drop in earnings from furlough.
(07 Jul 2021, 12:02 pm)streetdeckfan I know I'm probably going to get shit for saying this, but... Bus drivers have had it easy over the pandemic compared to a lot of other industries.
They've been some of the most protected from the virus, working completely behind screens, not taking cash etc. People working in the likes of Tesco don't have that luxury, even those working on checkouts aren't really that enclosed, the screens are just there to give the illusion of safety
Their industry has been propped up by the government while others have had very little support so they haven't had to worry about losing their job. And as buses were still running, a lot of drivers didn't even have to deal with a 20% drop in earnings from furlough.
(07 Jul 2021, 12:13 pm)Adrian I'm not sure why you insist on turning it into a race to the bottom, workers vs workers and so on, but this really has nothing to do with the thread. You're repeating points that you've made previously in the Coronavirus thread.
(07 Jul 2021, 12:13 pm)Adrian I'm not sure why you insist on turning it into a race to the bottom, workers vs workers and so on, but this really has nothing to do with the thread. You're repeating points that you've made previously in the Coronavirus thread.
(07 Jul 2021, 12:17 pm)streetdeckfan If we're comparing the pay to the likes of Tesco, then it's also fair to compare the working conditions to the likes of Tesco, isn't it?
(07 Jul 2021, 12:17 pm)streetdeckfan If we're comparing the pay to the likes of Tesco, then it's also fair to compare the working conditions to the likes of Tesco, isn't it?
(07 Jul 2021, 4:42 am)Dan Just for transparency and balance, Arriva’s pay ballot results were on 1 July and 81% of their drivers rejected the 1.5% pay deal offer. 87% have said they’d be willing to strike over this.
Stagecoach have also rejected their pay offer of a 1% pay rise (although they had a 2% payrise last year as part of a two-year deal, so is actually 3% between the two years).
So unfortunately Arriva’s 10 year old bus mightn’t turn up either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(07 Jul 2021, 4:42 am)Dan Just for transparency and balance, Arriva’s pay ballot results were on 1 July and 81% of their drivers rejected the 1.5% pay deal offer. 87% have said they’d be willing to strike over this.
Stagecoach have also rejected their pay offer of a 1% pay rise (although they had a 2% payrise last year as part of a two-year deal, so is actually 3% between the two years).
So unfortunately Arriva’s 10 year old bus mightn’t turn up either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(07 Jul 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador It's a hard one this in parts...
Hard to justify a payrise when you've been effectively nationalised for the past year.
Increase in labour costs naturally drives up other costs which is then passed onto Customers who in parts are already on the receiving end of some fairly large fares and will look at other options where they can.
Customer habits are changing and income streams with them. You have to invest (paint jobs, £1 fare promo, commercial tie ups with English Heritage etc etc) to attract Customers otherwise numbers dwindle to those who uses buses out of 'no choice' and then you're off down the job centre.
(07 Jul 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador It's a hard one this in parts...
Hard to justify a payrise when you've been effectively nationalised for the past year.
Increase in labour costs naturally drives up other costs which is then passed onto Customers who in parts are already on the receiving end of some fairly large fares and will look at other options where they can.
Customer habits are changing and income streams with them. You have to invest (paint jobs, £1 fare promo, commercial tie ups with English Heritage etc etc) to attract Customers otherwise numbers dwindle to those who uses buses out of 'no choice' and then you're off down the job centre.
Reading through this thread and from personal experience one thing is apparent, whilst the article in question is about GNE, the issue is industry wide and therefore the pay and conditions in the industry as a whole are in need of improvements to attract new staff and retain current staff.
I left Arriva to work at GNE. GNE paid more and it was closer to home plus minimum hours were higher. I had pay rises every year except last year. I recently had to change my contract to term time only (personal reasons) and as such had to take a pay cut (approx £20 per week) and now I'm on new starter rate (which for those interested is curreny £9.0442 per hour). Before being a bus driver I qualified as a teacher so essentially all that was chucked away to drive buses and coaches.
Alot of drivers seem to leave to drive HGVs where the money is (apparently) considerably more, no public to give you grief and no cash handling or ticket machines. I love driving but this has no appeal to me.
(07 Jul 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador Customer habits are changing and income streams with them. You have to invest (paint jobs, £1 fare promo, commercial tie ups with English Heritage etc etc) to attract Customers otherwise numbers dwindle to those who uses buses out of 'no choice' and then you're off down the job centre.And that's where GNE would struggle if they took the same approach as Arriva and didn't invest or at least make a half decent attempt in the current climate.
(07 Jul 2021, 1:59 am)mb134 The line, to me, is very much targeting car users over bus passengers.Car users?
(07 Jul 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador Customer habits are changing and income streams with them. You have to invest (paint jobs, £1 fare promo, commercial tie ups with English Heritage etc etc) to attract Customers otherwise numbers dwindle to those who uses buses out of 'no choice' and then you're off down the job centre.And that's where GNE would struggle if they took the same approach as Arriva and didn't invest or at least make a half decent attempt in the current climate.
(07 Jul 2021, 1:59 am)mb134 The line, to me, is very much targeting car users over bus passengers.Car users?
(07 Jul 2021, 2:51 pm)L469 YVK Car users?
- X20 Ashington to Newcastle
- X21 Newbiggin to Newcastle (35 to Ashington then train)
- X21 Bedlington Station to Newcastle
- X8 Cowpen / Bebside to Newcastle
- X10/X11 Newsham to Newcastle
- X7 Double Row & Top end of Delaval to Newcastle
- X7 Seghill to Newcastle
(07 Jul 2021, 2:51 pm)L469 YVK Car users?
- X20 Ashington to Newcastle
- X21 Newbiggin to Newcastle (35 to Ashington then train)
- X21 Bedlington Station to Newcastle
- X8 Cowpen / Bebside to Newcastle
- X10/X11 Newsham to Newcastle
- X7 Double Row & Top end of Delaval to Newcastle
- X7 Seghill to Newcastle
(07 Jul 2021, 11:55 am)mb134 I'd imagine places like Tesco, while perhaps not having length of service increases, will constantly have supervisory roles etc coming up that will offer a higher rate of pay. For what it's worth, the people I knew at uni who worked there part time said the wages were great, as were the perks that came with the job (and there were some enhanced pay rates, Sundays/BHs spring to mind). Might have changed in the last year or so since they left, but I can't imagine by very much.
For my current job, I got a 2.5% increase this April as well as a performance based increase last September, but in a company that's done relatively well during the pandemic. I can see why a 4% raise in a company/industry that hasn't faired as well could be problematic.
(07 Jul 2021, 2:51 pm)L469 YVK And that's where GNE would struggle if they took the same approach as Arriva and didn't invest or at least make a half decent attempt in the current climate.
Totally understand the wage debate. Drivers have their thoughts and so do GNE/GAG but at the end of the day, the "pot" used to improve customer offerings is aimed to help grow the company and potentially give the drivers the pay that they deserve going forward.
(07 Jul 2021, 11:55 am)mb134 I'd imagine places like Tesco, while perhaps not having length of service increases, will constantly have supervisory roles etc coming up that will offer a higher rate of pay. For what it's worth, the people I knew at uni who worked there part time said the wages were great, as were the perks that came with the job (and there were some enhanced pay rates, Sundays/BHs spring to mind). Might have changed in the last year or so since they left, but I can't imagine by very much.
For my current job, I got a 2.5% increase this April as well as a performance based increase last September, but in a company that's done relatively well during the pandemic. I can see why a 4% raise in a company/industry that hasn't faired as well could be problematic.
(07 Jul 2021, 2:51 pm)L469 YVK And that's where GNE would struggle if they took the same approach as Arriva and didn't invest or at least make a half decent attempt in the current climate.
Totally understand the wage debate. Drivers have their thoughts and so do GNE/GAG but at the end of the day, the "pot" used to improve customer offerings is aimed to help grow the company and potentially give the drivers the pay that they deserve going forward.
(07 Jul 2021, 11:45 am)streetdeckfan I'm not being funny, but a pay rise of 2% equates to around an extra £8 a week assuming you're earning £20k a year.
I'd be embarrassed to go on strike or quit over that.
(07 Jul 2021, 11:45 am)streetdeckfan I'm not being funny, but a pay rise of 2% equates to around an extra £8 a week assuming you're earning £20k a year.
I'd be embarrassed to go on strike or quit over that.
(07 Jul 2021, 5:56 pm)Clifton Hignett III £8 per week may mean little to you but that £32 over a four-week period could feasibly for someone's water-bill, mobile-phone contract or towards some other essential utility bill.
Since £8 per week is obviously nothing to man of such wealth like yourself, would you consider paying £8 per week for using this forum? The proceeds could go to charity or some other good cause.
After all, it would be embarrassing for you not to contribute and complain about that £8 per week charge now wouldn't it?
(07 Jul 2021, 5:56 pm)Clifton Hignett III £8 per week may mean little to you but that £32 over a four-week period could feasibly for someone's water-bill, mobile-phone contract or towards some other essential utility bill.
Since £8 per week is obviously nothing to man of such wealth like yourself, would you consider paying £8 per week for using this forum? The proceeds could go to charity or some other good cause.
After all, it would be embarrassing for you not to contribute and complain about that £8 per week charge now wouldn't it?
(07 Jul 2021, 6:46 pm)streetdeckfan If I got £8 worth of value out of it, then sure, but I don't feel like I do.
I don't mean to brag about my extreme wealth, but I spent more than that in bus fares to eat some overpriced and mediocre 'Japanese' food with friends in the Metro last night.
Maybe it's just me, but if I was £32 a month from not being able to pay my bills, then I'd probably look for another job since even a 4% payrise (which is what they're asking for) would only leave me with £32 to spare!
(07 Jul 2021, 6:46 pm)streetdeckfan If I got £8 worth of value out of it, then sure, but I don't feel like I do.
I don't mean to brag about my extreme wealth, but I spent more than that in bus fares to eat some overpriced and mediocre 'Japanese' food with friends in the Metro last night.
Maybe it's just me, but if I was £32 a month from not being able to pay my bills, then I'd probably look for another job since even a 4% payrise (which is what they're asking for) would only leave me with £32 to spare!
(07 Jul 2021, 7:47 pm)Clifton Hignett III You must obtain some value from this forum. As someone has previously expressed their dislike of bus enthusiasts, I find it very strange that you choose to post your thoughts on a forum catered towards bus enthusiasts unless, of course, you are either an enthusiast yourself (as your constant hounding of Martijn Gilbert might suggest) or find something valuable in this very medium.
You are also someone who purportedly uses public transport on a regular basis. Do you not value those who make your journies possible, or should they simply, as you suggest, find other employment because you don't value their contribution to your lifestyle enough for them to ask for a payrise of a measly £8 per week?
(07 Jul 2021, 7:47 pm)Clifton Hignett III You must obtain some value from this forum. As someone has previously expressed their dislike of bus enthusiasts, I find it very strange that you choose to post your thoughts on a forum catered towards bus enthusiasts unless, of course, you are either an enthusiast yourself (as your constant hounding of Martijn Gilbert might suggest) or find something valuable in this very medium.
You are also someone who purportedly uses public transport on a regular basis. Do you not value those who make your journies possible, or should they simply, as you suggest, find other employment because you don't value their contribution to your lifestyle enough for them to ask for a payrise of a measly £8 per week?
People have different view points of different hobbies. A thing I've learnt over the years is that if it doesn't affect you, then why worry about it. If someone wants to be obsessive about the hobby, let them get on with it. At the end of the day, you do what you want to do with the hobby, but don't force people to view the hobby the same way as you do. Just let them get on with it.
(07 Jul 2021, 8:59 pm)streetdeckfan I do obtain some value, but not £8 a week. Assuming you're being genuine and not arguing for the sake of it, I'd probably put the value of this forum at around the £5 a month mark.
At risk of offending some people on here and going off topic, I'll try and explain my dislike of enthusiasts.
In my eyes there are 2 different types of enthusiasts, those who completely obsess over something, and those who have an interest in that thing. It's the first type that I don't like.
Those that spend the whole day camping outside of a bus depot to get the first photo of a new bus or livery.
Or stand outside of the Metrocentre all day and take a blurry photo of every bloody bus.
Or those who have to be the first to ride a new bus.
Or those that can only see the positives in an operator and completely ignore all the negatives, or vice versa.
The same can also be said about the positives and negatives of vehicles.
I could also be described a PC enthusiasts (computers that is, not political correctness, that can sod off) and have exactly the same opinions about those enthusiasts.
You're also taking what I said way out of context.
What I said was that if you're only £32 a month from going bust, then an extra £32 a month on top of that is going to make sod all difference.
If that was me, I'd either be making cut backs on non-essentials, or looking for a job that earns more money.
Whether or not I think they deserve a pay rise is irrelevant, the fact that they've been offered a 2% pay rise, which considering the state of the industry I was surprised it was that high.
Like I said before, If I was in their position I would be embarrassed to argue for an extra £8 a week on top of, in my opinion, an already extremely generous offer.
(07 Jul 2021, 8:59 pm)streetdeckfan I do obtain some value, but not £8 a week. Assuming you're being genuine and not arguing for the sake of it, I'd probably put the value of this forum at around the £5 a month mark.
At risk of offending some people on here and going off topic, I'll try and explain my dislike of enthusiasts.
In my eyes there are 2 different types of enthusiasts, those who completely obsess over something, and those who have an interest in that thing. It's the first type that I don't like.
Those that spend the whole day camping outside of a bus depot to get the first photo of a new bus or livery.
Or stand outside of the Metrocentre all day and take a blurry photo of every bloody bus.
Or those who have to be the first to ride a new bus.
Or those that can only see the positives in an operator and completely ignore all the negatives, or vice versa.
The same can also be said about the positives and negatives of vehicles.
I could also be described a PC enthusiasts (computers that is, not political correctness, that can sod off) and have exactly the same opinions about those enthusiasts.
You're also taking what I said way out of context.
What I said was that if you're only £32 a month from going bust, then an extra £32 a month on top of that is going to make sod all difference.
If that was me, I'd either be making cut backs on non-essentials, or looking for a job that earns more money.
Whether or not I think they deserve a pay rise is irrelevant, the fact that they've been offered a 2% pay rise, which considering the state of the industry I was surprised it was that high.
Like I said before, If I was in their position I would be embarrassed to argue for an extra £8 a week on top of, in my opinion, an already extremely generous offer.
(07 Jul 2021, 10:01 pm)Rapidsnap People have different view points of different hobbies. A thing I've learnt over the years is that if it doesn't affect you, then why worry about it. If someone wants to be obsessive about the hobby, let them get on with it. At the end of the day, you do what you want to do with the hobby, but don't force people to view the hobby the same way as you do. Just let them get on with it.
(07 Jul 2021, 10:01 pm)Rapidsnap People have different view points of different hobbies. A thing I've learnt over the years is that if it doesn't affect you, then why worry about it. If someone wants to be obsessive about the hobby, let them get on with it. At the end of the day, you do what you want to do with the hobby, but don't force people to view the hobby the same way as you do. Just let them get on with it.
