If you think 2% is £8 per week don't become an accountant.

(21 Jul 2021, 11:07 am)CookieMonster wrote If you think 2% is £8 per week don't become an accountant.

Care to enlighten me with the 'proper' amount then?

Well the new offer is 2.5% with a £150 incentive. However they want our bonus of us, so its essentially a 2.1% increase (we are essentially paying for our own pay rise. The next ballot is 2nd Aug and its expected that drivers will head in the direction of a strike or work to rule essentially an overtime ban.
No i will not enlighten you on the proper amount, what i get paid is nothing to do with you, and there are a lot of different rates of pay throughout the depot for drivers.

I’ve just read this and had a bit of a chuckle to myself, as a former driver at more than one of the big three, I’ve been through pay talks and voted on the matter. I have an interest in the industry, but to have the proper “bus [removed]” being so derisory towards the drivers that make your bus [removed] possible is disgusting. Yeah they want more than is being offered but which unionised industry accepts the first pay offer. If they feel they have a bigger value than is being offered why not go for it. Just out of interest how much did your benefits go up, to enable you to be standing at the metro centre with your [removed] and your camera in the other?

Mod edit: removed inappropriate language

(22 Jul 2021, 6:50 am)WHEATSHEAF1 wrote I’ve just read this and had a bit of a chuckle to myself, as a former driver at more than one of the big three, I’ve been through pay talks and voted on the matter. I have an interest in the industry, but to have the proper “bus [removed]” being so derisory towards the drivers that make your bus [removed] possible is disgusting. Yeah they want more than is being offered but which unionised industry accepts the first pay offer. If they feel they have a bigger value than is being offered why not go for it. Just out of interest how much did your benefits go up, to enable you to be standing at the metro centre with your [removed] and your camera in the other?

Not sure if you're reading the same thread then, because even though one or two are questioning it, the majority of other commenters are questioning the company. But a bit disappointing that you choose to dive straight in with ridiculous and childish insults, rather than making reasoned points in response. 

I've taken the liberty to tone down your post.

(22 Jul 2021, 9:01 am)Adrian wrote Not sure if you're reading the same thread then, because even though one or two are questioning it, the majority of other commenters are questioning the company. But a bit disappointing that you choose to dive straight in with ridiculous and childish insults, rather than making reasoned points in response. 

I've taken the liberty to tone down your post.

And even then, I'm not saying they don't deserve a pay rise, I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't argue over (what is in my eyes) a relatively small amount of money.

Also, if they'd actually read any of my posts, I personally hate the whole 'bus [removed]' scene, I've got better things to do than stand at the Metrocentre and take crap, blurry pictures of every bus and post them on Flickr!

Happened again 

https://www.facebook.com/154470319245616...sn=scwspmo

(14 Sep 2021, 10:48 am)Train8261 wrote Happened again 

https://www.facebook.com/154470319245616...sn=scwspmo

For those not on social media: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...pay-offer/

Bit of a no-win situation here.

- implement an immediate wage rise which forces costs up which forces pricing up which puts off the passengers you need to build confidence in and attract.

- Do nothing, suffer industrial action or lose drivers and lower the confidence that your passengers have in the bus network who then seek alternative travel. Those leisure passengers won't give you a second chance.

There's a sense of turkeys voting for Christmas with this attitude from the Unions.

(14 Sep 2021, 11:04 am)Ambassador wrote Bit of a no-win situation here.

- implement an immediate wage rise which forces costs up which forces pricing up which puts off the passengers you need to build confidence in and attract.

- Do nothing, suffer industrial action or lose drivers and lower the confidence that your passengers have in the bus network who then seek alternative travel. Those leisure passengers won't give you a second chance.

There's a sense of turkeys voting for Christmas with this attitude from the Unions.

We're living in a time where no matter what someone does. Its gonna annoyingly someone. Like you said there..it's a no win situation

(14 Sep 2021, 11:04 am)Ambassador wrote Bit of a no-win situation here.

- implement an immediate wage rise which forces costs up which forces pricing up which puts off the passengers you need to build confidence in and attract.

- Do nothing, suffer industrial action or lose drivers and lower the confidence that your passengers have in the bus network who then seek alternative travel. Those leisure passengers won't give you a second chance.

There's a sense of turkeys voting for Christmas with this attitude from the Unions.

Jesus blaming the unions, the staff are underpaid. The 3.2% once you account for the NI increase and inflation won't be an increase at all and that's ignoring the inflation for last year aswell when a year was skipped.

It's baffling the love for corporates in suits on here at times who don't care about anyone bar the dividend they can get at the end of year which is kept by keeping staff wages as low as they can, even if they're below the living wage.

The third option is have a happy work force who are happy to work for you with an increased wage and actually stay in their job thus less training needed since you don't have a massive turnover. At the same time you have happy drivers who provide customer service beyond what they need to, offering the right tickets, saying hello when passengers board buses and going beyond their working hours doing overtime because their proud of their job all resulting in a better passenger experience. Similar could be said behind the scenes with staff who go beyond what they need to, go that extra step in cleaning and fixing buses which all is a better experience. It's better than the current grumpy drivers who want out, buses which normal times are absolutely manky and I can't comment on the engineering staff but there's a lot of breakdowns (but don't want to blame that on them).

(14 Sep 2021, 11:22 am)Storx wrote Jesus blaming the unions, the staff are underpaid. The 3.2% once you account for the NI increase and inflation won't be an increase at all and that's ignoring the inflation for last year aswell when a year was skipped.

It's baffling the love for corporates in suits on here at times who don't care about anyone bar the dividend they can get at the end of year which is kept by keeping staff wages as low as they can, even if they're below the living wage.

The third option is have a happy work force who are happy to work for you with an increased wage and actually stay in their job thus less training needed since you don't have a massive turnover. At the same time you have happy drivers who provide customer service beyond what they need to, offering the right tickets, saying hello when passengers board buses and going beyond their working hours doing overtime because their proud of their job all resulting in a better passenger experience. Similar could be said behind the scenes with staff who go beyond what they need to, go that extra step in cleaning and fixing buses which all is a better experience. It's better than the current grumpy drivers who want out, buses which normal times are absolutely manky and I can't comment on the engineering staff but there's a lot of breakdowns (but don't want to blame that on them).

The starting rates are borderline poverty pay, so it's no wonder there's a driver shortage. Given the constant recruitment across the region, it would suggest turnover/natural attrition is high anyway, but further accelerated by the pandemic and drivers simply not returning from the EU after Brexit.

I somewhat agree with staff going beyond, and I think most employees naturally do when they take pride in their job or even something keeping them in their job. The offer of better working conditions, shifts and so on, usually makes one employer standout amongst others. I don't agree with people working beyond their working hours and doing overtime though, because it stops staff from having a work-life balance. Overtime should always be optional and a last resort.

I do like the way that higher fares or charges onto a customer is always thrown up, every time we discuss workers receiving a pay rise, but how many of us think of that and reject our own pay rises for the same reason? Seriously, we need to stop pitting workers against workers and creating a race to the bottom.

Just out of interest does anyone know what bus driver pay rises have been like over the last 5-10 years compared to those working in NHS and public service/local government sectors?

(14 Sep 2021, 11:22 am)Storx wrote Jesus blaming the unions, the staff are underpaid. The 3.2% once you account for the NI increase and inflation won't be an increase at all and that's ignoring the inflation for last year aswell when a year was skipped.

It's baffling the love for corporates in suits on here at times who don't care about anyone bar the dividend they can get at the end of year which is kept by keeping staff wages as low as they can, even if they're below the living wage.

The third option is have a happy work force who are happy to work for you with an increased wage and actually stay in their job thus less training needed since you don't have a massive turnover. At the same time you have happy drivers who provide customer service beyond what they need to, offering the right tickets, saying hello when passengers board buses and going beyond their working hours doing overtime because their proud of their job all resulting in a better passenger experience. Similar could be said behind the scenes with staff who go beyond what they need to, go that extra step in cleaning and fixing buses which all is a better experience. It's better than the current grumpy drivers who want out, buses which normal times are absolutely manky and I can't comment on the engineering staff but there's a lot of breakdowns (but don't want to blame that on them).

It's the reality of the current situation and the public attitude, nobody wants to pay more than they do now.  

The Living Wage outside of London is currently £9.50 which GNE pay above. Average Pay in manual and entry level office jobs is around the £10 level in this region, slightly less in some retail environments. Very few people have had pay rises, those that do won't have had anything inflation busting. Doesn't mean it's right but its the reality. 

The public have already indirectly kept the industry and these jobs going through furlough and support grants on top of fares - there's absolutely no appetite to support more, so yes, unions should be more realistic. Allow the economy to recover now - reap the benefits following that.

(14 Sep 2021, 1:40 pm)Ambassador wrote It's the reality of the current situation and the public attitude, nobody wants to pay more than they do now.  

The Living Wage outside of London is currently £9.50 which GNE pay above. Average Pay in manual and entry level office jobs is around the £10 level in this region, slightly less in some retail environments. Very few people have had pay rises, those that do won't have had anything inflation busting. Doesn't mean it's right but its the reality. 

The public have already indirectly kept the industry and these jobs going through furlough and support grants on top of fares - there's absolutely no appetite to support more, so yes, unions should be more realistic. Allow the economy to recover now - reap the benefits following that.

There may well be pay grades above £9.50 but I'm only 9.04 per hour which is well under that....

Not sure what managers get paid though as it's never disclosed. Pay in the industry as a whole is bad not just GNE so maybe if one operator upped pay and conditions then they would attract more staff and probably staff from other companies and I would put my pension on other operators upping pay and conditions to try and win back drivers.

(14 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)morritt89 wrote There may well be pay grades above £9.50 but I'm only 9.04 per hour which is well under that....

Not sure what managers get paid though as it's never disclosed. Pay in the industry as a whole is bad not just GNE so maybe if one operator upped pay and conditions then they would attract more staff and probably staff from other companies and I would put my pension on other operators upping pay and conditions to try and win back drivers.

Absolutely, important to point out that it is industry-wide (except for maybe London - which I think is around 28k-29k), rather than just a single operator. 

I think we'll see similar disputes make the news in the coming weeks/months.

(14 Sep 2021, 1:40 pm)Ambassador wrote It's the reality of the current situation and the public attitude, nobody wants to pay more than they do now.  

The Living Wage outside of London is currently £9.50 which GNE pay above. Average Pay in manual and entry level office jobs is around the £10 level in this region, slightly less in some retail environments. Very few people have had pay rises, those that do won't have had anything inflation busting. Doesn't mean it's right but its the reality. 

The public have already indirectly kept the industry and these jobs going through furlough and support grants on top of fares - there's absolutely no appetite to support more, so yes, unions should be more realistic. Allow the economy to recover now - reap the benefits following that.

So the drivers are all off to drive HGVs instead. How are you going to attract new members of staff when they can go off to drive goods vehicles for double the money? Don't think it's the unions that should be more realistic.

(14 Sep 2021, 4:22 pm)deanmachine wrote So the drivers are all off to drive HGVs instead. How are you going to attract new members of staff when they can go off to drive goods vehicles for double the money? Don't think it's the unions that should be more realistic.

And with a lot less hassle no doubt. No public scrutinising your every move with some eager to complain at the first hint of a mistake. As I've said previously in this thread, who would want to be a bus driver in this day and age for the pittance on offer?

Good luck to the drivers, I say.

The erosion of their terms and conditions has been going on for years, industry wide. Doesn't sound like there's a lot of goodwill towards the company from the current staff either, judging by some of the comments linked to that Northern Echo story.

Maybe the pandemic has shown operators what really happens when you structure a business to allow for constant churn and attrition.

There's never going to be much loyalty for those sorts of hourly rates and once the cogs start turning slowly at Swansea and the testing centres, there's only ever going to be one outcome.
Call-centres are in a similar position attrition wise. If there's another one around the corner offering 10p per hour more, people are going to go there as added up, that 10p can make a huge difference to someones bank balance.
The only difference between that low wage economy and a bus driver is the fact they don't need to pass a test or have the right licence.
Oh and all the responsibility that comes with being a driver, the lack of toilet facilities, the ability to have a break when it's scheduled (or as close as), without the massive implications and knock on effects, all the H&S concerns and much much more.

Having been involved in a project regarding 0-90 day attrition, I would love to know what sort of period these drivers are quitting by and whether or not they're doing it within that infamous first year.

According to an 82 driver, theres gonna be a meeting in the removed tonight, for the directors to discuss the problems within the company with the Washington Drivers.

(20 Sep 2021, 9:53 am)ASX_Terranova wrote According to an 82 driver, theres gonna be a meeting in the removed tonight, for the directors to discuss the problems within the company with the Washington Drivers.

It's not just a Washington issue, it's every depot.

(20 Sep 2021, 10:42 am)Stanleyone wrote It's not just a Washington issue, it's every depot.

I know that, does anyone have any idea on the meeting agenda.

(20 Sep 2021, 11:13 am)ASX_Terranova wrote I know that, does anyone have any idea on the meeting agenda.

Surely non of our business...

These meeting aren't just to discuss pay, it's for any issues. It involves depot managers and senior managers within the business. I believe that each depot will have such a meeting.

We (Consett) had ours last Monday and lots of issues were raised, non of which non employees need to know, sadly there's still more questions that need answering.

(20 Sep 2021, 12:13 pm)Stanleyone wrote We (Consett) had ours last Monday and lots of issues were raised, non of which non employees need to know, sadly there's still more questions that need answering.

Hypothetically, what would happen if say GNE, SNE etc... suddenly went into administration.

(20 Sep 2021, 1:38 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Hypothetically, what would happen if say GNE, SNE etc... suddenly went into administration.

they would be ran as a going concern until a buyer could be found i would think

I've removed the name of the venue. Its not appropriate to post info like that on here.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(20 Sep 2021, 3:11 pm)Adrian wrote I've removed the name of the venue. Its not appropriate to post info like that on here.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I always think back to a former Radio 1 DJ whenever anyone mentions that place.