Connections 4 Amazon runs

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(18 Oct 2021, 1:41 pm)cbma06 Wrote: Could Arriva operate certain journeys on service 56 as 56A and run the 56A from Bowburn down past Amazon and continue down the road past Tursdale and then left at roundabout then along the road and enter Conforth to continue normal route with service 56, it would provide more links for Amazon workers, and yes it will miss out Coxhoe altogether, but Coxhoe  will still have journeys on the 56 plus the 57 and X1.


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If your going to redirect buses via Amazon then the best bus would be the 7. It currently has a 15 minute layover in Durham and it would only take an extra few minutes and provide a new link from the bottom end of Durham to Darlington aswell with a 30 minute service on it so it's not too infrequent and the other half of the route would be still every 30 minutes where most of is duplicated by other routes anyway.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.68923...00!3e0!5i1 - There's barely any time different on the two routes, not sure it could cope with the additional pax though.
(18 Oct 2021, 6:22 pm)Storx Wrote: If your going to redirect buses via Amazon then the best bus would be the 7. It currently has a 15 minute layover in Durham and it would only take an extra few minutes and provide a new link from the bottom end of Durham to Darlington aswell with a 30 minute service on it so it's not too infrequent and the other half of the route would be still every 30 minutes where most of is duplicated by other routes anyway.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.68923...00!3e0!5i1 - There's barely any time different on the two routes, not sure it could cope with the additional pax though.


That’s a good idea

(18 Oct 2021, 6:38 pm)cbma06 Wrote: That’s a good idea

Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)
What GNE could do is perhaps, get the 59 and make it Mon-Sun via Amazon, Mon-Sat Every 30 mins, 2 buses. Maybe some older Citaros
(18 Oct 2021, 8:15 pm)Keeiajs Wrote: What GNE could do is perhaps, get the 59 and make it Mon-Sun via Amazon, Mon-Sat Every 30 mins, 2 buses. Maybe some older Citaros


Service 59 is a secured service from Durham council, it’s a Sunday service as Arriva does the Monday to Saturday service as a 57/57A


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(18 Oct 2021, 8:18 pm)cbma06 Wrote: Service 59 is a secured service from Durham council, it’s a Sunday service as Arriva does the Monday to Saturday service as a 57/57A


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Yeah, but I don't really know if Durham County Council will mind, aslong as they only pay for the Sunday route. 

But I mean GNE could trial it every 20 mins with 2 Citaros. See how it goes for a few month. Then if it does become popular put it proper route down there.
(18 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm)Storx Wrote: Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)
One downside however is it would put the times on the 7 completely out of whack diverting one via Amazon & Bowburn. Done a quick rough mock up using the times (see below) from the existing X12 from Bowburn to Durham although think my estimated 11 mins from Ferryhill is a bit tight. Would have to be direct otherwise you effectively end up with a 56A and it wouldn't be able to go through Metal Bridge itself owing to the low bridge.

To keep this on track with GNE, if they were to run there probs be best if they were to trial a service there would either be best to run a standalone service as a trial or extend another Durham service, my suggestion being X5/X15 to offer better Cross city connections like how the 21 is now running to Brandon.[Image: e2c69f4a13a76934ddc446e32d70bd01.jpg]
(18 Oct 2021, 1:41 pm)cbma06 Wrote: Could Arriva operate certain journeys on service 56 as 56A and run the 56A from Bowburn down past Amazon and continue down the road past Tursdale and then left at roundabout then along the road and enter Conforth to continue normal route with service 56, it would provide more links for Amazon workers, and yes it will miss out Coxhoe altogether, but Coxhoe  will still have journeys on the 56 plus the 57 and X1.

It shouldn't always be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to serve a new area. There's clearly a market in serving Amazon sites, as GNE have shown with their extension of the 4... no one has lost out with that; people have gained with later services.

(18 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm)Storx Wrote: Yeah, they could potentially work with DCC and try and nab the 112 subsidy aswell since everything would be pretty much covered by the 8A, 56, 86 and the new 7 (the only bit without a bus Metal Bridge -> Ferry Hill)

Why should DCC subsidise it? We live in a deregulated market, and it shouldn't be up to a local authority to provide a bus, just because the dominant commercial operator aren't willing to do anything different to what they've done for the last 30 years.

If every new development/employment site fell to the local authority to sort out transport from/to, we might as well change legislation and allow council-owned bus companies again.
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Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.
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(19 Oct 2021, 2:46 pm)Rapidsnap Wrote: Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.

I think the people of Bowburn would almost rejoice at having an alternative to being cramped up on an aging Solo, being transported in worse conditions than legally allowed for livestock.
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(18 Oct 2021, 8:38 pm)Jimmi Wrote: One downside however is it would put the times on the 7 completely out of whack diverting one via Amazon & Bowburn. Done a quick rough mock up using the times (see below) from the existing X12 from Bowburn to Durham although think my estimated 11 mins from Ferryhill is a bit tight. Would have to be direct otherwise you effectively end up with a 56A and it wouldn't be able to go through Metal Bridge itself owing to the low bridge.

To keep this on track with GNE, if they were to run there probs be best if they were to trial a service there would either be best to run a standalone service as a trial or extend another Durham service, my suggestion being X5/X15 to offer better Cross city connections like how the 21 is now running to Brandon.[Image: e2c69f4a13a76934ddc446e32d70bd01.jpg]

Aye that's a good point about the timings totally went over my head suppose they could go for a diversion somewhere else on the 7 and have it every 15 minutes out of Durham and just out of timings in the central section but yeah I different service extended would probably be better.

Probably suggests why there isn't a service tbh as it's not as easy as it seems.
(19 Oct 2021, 2:46 pm)Rapidsnap Wrote: Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.
I mean you could, they could go there instead of Brandon, but you could have to make Newcastle to Durham then Brandon/Bowburn every 15 mins to serve each at a 15 min frequency. Or you could send some 20's or X20's down there. Maybe 65/65A.
(19 Oct 2021, 2:46 pm)Rapidsnap Wrote: Could always extend some Angels down to Amazon.
I mean you could, they could go there instead of Brandon, but you could have to make Newcastle to Durham then Brandon/Bowburn every 15 mins to serve each at a 15 min frequency. Or you could send some 20's or X20's down there. Maybe 65/65A.
Quite a lot of Amazon workers were at Heworth tonight a packed out the 17;50 4 with the latter left over spilling onto the 17:57 peak extra, wasn't many on the following extra at 18:11 when it arrived at Amazon as again most got on the standard 4 beforehand. 

The service this evening was operated by Voyager Omnidekka's 6172 & 6175.
Had a few sociable beverages yesterday and two of the group I was with used the bus to get there. 
The 4 was brought up and those 2 who used the bus, could have used the 4 to get to our rendezvous point.
They both voiced concerns about the length of the journey now the 4 has been diverted (or the apparent length - I imagine it is similar to the Coast Road effect with the slip roads and it seemingly taking longer than it actually does).
Anyway, to cut a long story short, neither used the 4 there or back. One even arranged a pick up from Heworth on the way home.
Is the diversion of the 4 and apparent success of the change for Amazon workers, sustainable over the apparent dissatisfaction of regular customers? 
Granted it was a small sample (remember that discussion eezypeazy - guessing you may still lurk), but it would be interesting to see what impact the diversion is having and what other regular passengers on that portion of the route actually think of it.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(03 Jan 2022, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: Had a few sociable beverages yesterday and two of the group I was with used the bus to get there. 
The 4 was brought up and those 2 who used the bus, could have used the 4 to get to our rendezvous point.
They both voiced concerns about the length of the journey now the 4 has been diverted (or the apparent length - I imagine it is similar to the Coast Road effect with the slip roads and it seemingly taking longer than it actually does).
Anyway, to cut a long story short, neither used the 4 there or back. One even arranged a pick up from Heworth on the way home.
Is the diversion of the 4 and apparent success of the change for Amazon workers, sustainable over the apparent dissatisfaction of regular customers? 
Granted it was a small sample (remember that discussion eezypeazy - guessing you may still lurk), but it would be interesting to see what impact the diversion is having and what other regular passengers on that portion of the route actually think of it.

The diversion feels lengthy, but I think part of that is down to doing a full circle on the A194 roundabout. I'm not sure how you could avoid that safely though, without a costly infrastructure project that delivers little benefit. 

I think the journey time Concord to Heworth was 12 minutes prior to the diversion and now it's 18 minutes. I don't think that's enough to put someone off over the alternatives, as its still a frequent service.
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(03 Jan 2022, 1:08 pm)Adrian Wrote: The diversion feels lengthy, but I think part of that is down to doing a full circle on the A194 roundabout. I'm not sure how you could avoid that safely though, without a costly infrastructure project that delivers little benefit. 

I think the journey time Concord to Heworth was 12 minutes prior to the diversion and now it's 18 minutes. I don't think that's enough to put someone off over the alternatives, as its still a frequent service.
One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(03 Jan 2022, 1:17 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.
Maybe its just me being a lazy bugger, but even if they added an extra half hour to the journey, I wouldn't walk 10 minutes to only save 20 minutes

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(03 Jan 2022, 1:17 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: One walked 10mins to wait for the X1 from the Galleries, as opposed to getting the 4 and the diversion. He then got a lift home from Heworth to avoid the 4.

Not judging, but it is something he now prefers doing over the 4 to/from the bottom of the street. 

I likened it back to the old 294 diversion through Coach Road Estate. People would try to get the 194, because they perceived the 294 to be too slow. Think that diversion was replicated with the M3 at one point.

Seems a bit odd to walk 10 mins to avoid an extra couple of minutes on a bus, and then put someone out in giving him a lift home, to avoid a couple extra minutes on the way back. Each to their own I suppose, but I don't think many would use it as a reason to boycott a service.

The 294/M2 diversion (M3 did Stephenson Road/Northumbria Centre) was about the same as the Follingsby extension in adding time to the service. I suppose it worked both ways though, because people heading to Shiney College would use the 294 instead with it dropping off outside the door.

I suppose its not ideal for any service to extend in running time, but at the same time they should serve key spots on a route and not ignore them. Follinsby is a key employment spot on the 4 route for me, and I'm not sure how else you'd serve the park. The old 994 shuttle from Heworth carried nothing but fresh air for years, but clearly Amazon being there has presented a new opportunity that has been acted on.

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I think in some cases, it's part of the planning permission for Amazon to pay towards public transport to serve the area of the site. Though it doesn't apply to all Amazon locations.

Follingsby Park is just sadly in an awkward location meaning either a service terminating there and returning to Heworth, or buses having to loop back on themselves to carry on to their destination. A way around it is to alternate journeys via Amazon, but again would leave an uneven timetable and even worse longer gaps in certain locations between runs if there was a bus missing.
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