(16 May 2022, 12:25 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]The 55 was always getting set up to be withdrawn when there doubled the frequency of the x1 to Peterlee, and there’s other bus services following the same corridor.
I wonder if the proposed 24 is standalone service, I would of thought that the 26 would of been better extended from shields to Sunderland on the 20 route, would of opened up new connections without change of bus, or extending the 60 or 61 to shields
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Surely the X1 could go a different way to Peterlee.
the only reason they are putting the X45 to every 30 mins so there is enough buses for the X1
Quite a brutal list there, though remains to be seen which proposals don't materialise following discussions with Nexus/Local Authorities.
(16 May 2022, 12:30 pm)Chris 1 wrote [ -> ]Quite a brutal list there, though remains to be seen which proposals don't materialise following discussions with Nexus/Local Authorities.
Nexus and DCC are being thrown over the barrel by GNE here.
Do they bail out a failing private operator unable to do anything other than cut, curtail and repaint or do they look at alternatives?
I think the splitting of the 20 is the most amusing change.
For years, GNE tried to convince passengers that the long established 35 (or 535/536 in its previous form) was no good and customers would be better served by extending the 20 to South Shields. IiRC, this was rejected by passengers a few times when consulted, only for GNE to force the change through when that particular avenue was exhausted. So now what do they propose? To split the 20 into two different services. I guess extending the 20 wasn't the best option after all ??
(16 May 2022, 12:35 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I think the splitting of the 20 is the most amusing change.
For years, GNE tried to convince passengers that the long established 35 (or 535/536 in its previous form) was no good and customers would be better served by extending the 20 to South Shields. IiRC, this was rejected by passengers a few times when consulted, only for GNE to force the change through when that particular avenue was exhausted. So now what do they propose? To split the 20 into two different services. I guess extending the 20 wasn't the best option after all ??
All done whilst killing the 35/36 and whatever letter they attached to it that particular week.
Absolutely.
Previous form would suggest some services will go out to tender and GNE will win the tender. Or GNE will be unsuccessful in their bid, and decide the service is viable after all.
(16 May 2022, 12:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Nexus and DCC are being thrown over the barrel by GNE here.
Do they bail out a failing private operator unable to do anything other than cut, curtail and repaint or do they look at alternatives?
Maybe Gateshead Central Taxis would win any new tenders? When that happens that usually goes down well here
I’m guessing that GNE are under pressure from head office as many of these new brands have barely been given chance to succeed, they haven’t even had a full normal post-Covid year to let passenger volumes increase.
(16 May 2022, 12:52 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]Maybe Gateshead Central Taxis would win any new tenders? When that happens that usually goes down well here
I’m guessing that GNE are under pressure from head office as many of these new brands have barely been given chance to succeed, they haven’t even had a full normal post-Covid year to let passenger volumes increase.
Isn't it more an issue that GNE have a load of new buses bought just before and delivered just before the pandemic and passenger numbers nationally havent returned to 100%, hence a shortfall?
I notice ANE and SNE have not as yet made the same amount of changes and they have older buses.
Interesting they chose to announce the service cuts today after the feel good open day yesterday!
(16 May 2022, 12:56 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Isn't it more an issue that GNE have a load of new buses bought just before and delivered just before the pandemic and passenger numbers nationally havent returned to 100%, hence a shortfall?
I notice ANE and SNE have not as yet made the same amount of changes and they have older buses.
Undoubtedly the pandemic has played a part. But this fall in numbers isn't a new thing.
The pandemic is something easy to attach the blame to.
You're looking at an operator who has stagnated and not evolved to suit changing needs.
Cutting an early morning run or the back end of a route doesn't increase numbers and doesn't take in to account the changes in where passengers want to go.
! see the 1 is returning to wreckton. Bit like when the rook returns to ( fill in here with wherever the event is)
Ive filled in the form but doubt will do any good. Never though i'd say this but id rather GCT got nexus contract than this bunch of cowboys. HOW MUCH THEY SPENT ON PAINT AGAIN? Shocking
(16 May 2022, 12:56 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]Interesting they chose to announce the service cuts today after the feel good open day yesterday!
I've noticed the plaudits coming in thick and fast on social media from the fanboys and girls.
Not sure it means much to the ordinary punter.
(16 May 2022, 12:35 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I think the splitting of the 20 is the most amusing change.
For years, GNE tried to convince passengers that the long established 35 (or 535/536 in its previous form) was no good and customers would be better served by extending the 20 to South Shields. IiRC, this was rejected by passengers a few times when consulted, only for GNE to force the change through when that particular avenue was exhausted. So now what do they propose? To split the 20 into two different services. I guess extending the 20 wasn't the best option after all ??
The 55 gets quite busy, during the day. What they could do is extend the 55 to South Sheilds and every half an hour extend it to Peterlee
I think a mod need to combined the 24th July changes with this thread
(16 May 2022, 1:10 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]! see the 1 is returning to wreckton. Bit like when the rook returns to ( fill in here with wherever the event is)
Ive filled in the form but doubt will do any good. Never though i'd say this but id rather GCT got nexus contract than this bunch of cowboys. HOW MUCH THEY SPENT ON PAINT AGAIN? Shocking
I don’t think the form will help.
This will just make people what to get in there car more!
It’s not future proofing, there will just be another set of mass changings - stopping evening services will just want to make people get back in their cars
I wonder if they are leaving the 60 repaints for new buses, seems as though they are the only major service not been changed.
62 being cancelled is a mistake maybe re-time it so it’s better for passengers instead of 10 mins in Sunderland between them.
No real service between Sunderland and Peterlee other 1 hour express people will defo be going back to their cars
X70 being cancelled bad move
Facebook comments are not a very fun place to be.
I'm a bit confused as for the last month or so ive been using the bus more than ever...... and now they want rid of the opnly buses that get me home. I knew i should have continued to use my gas guzzling people carrier!
When I saw the X21 listed, I was fully expecting it to get the whole extension cut, but it seems a bit pointless cutting it back from West Auckland Eden Garage to West Auckland Club. That's only 2 stops, and would only save around 5 minutes
I dont agree with the propsed decimation of the little pinks services, i live on the 82/84 route and think Ayton needs more than just 2 buses an hour.
(16 May 2022, 1:22 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]No real service between Sunderland and Peterlee other 1 hour express people will defo be going back to their cars
Arriva run 4 buses per hour between Sunderland and Peterlee
(16 May 2022, 1:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]You're looking at an operator who has stagnated and not evolved to suit changing needs.
Can you explain what this actually means?
Surely the changing needs, are that customers have less of a need to use the bus, rather than a specific new need?
What is this new obvious requirement that they are missing out on?
(16 May 2022, 1:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Undoubtedly the pandemic has played a part. But this fall in numbers isn't a new thing.
The pandemic is something easy to attach the blame to.
You're looking at an operator who has stagnated and not evolved to suit changing needs.
Cutting an early morning run or the back end of a route doesn't increase numbers and doesn't take in to account the changes in where passengers want to go.
I think most of the criticism is fair. When you issue a document called "fit for the future" and 10 months later it's in the toilet, it's only right people are angry. I'd be very surprised if somebody doesn't ask questions as to why its went wrong when SNE and ANE are stable (ish)
Personally, I think they've been dealt a bad hand through no fault of thier own due the high runnings costs of new buses and very low passenger numbers due to the pandemic.
Those running costs (which would be high to be fair) don't dissapear when passenger numbers are at 80% nationally at a time they probably would have been looking at being at least 100% of passenger number compared to 2019. That is a big shortfall.
But I also think they've played the hand they've been dealt badly with the multiple service changes, even during lockdown 1, while still receiving levels of support meaning they didn't need to.
I can understand some of the cutting back between Sunderland and Peterlee. That's a turf war that arriva would have had to desperately cock up to lose, just like Peterlee to hartlepool. Not good for people not directly on the 22/23 routes, though.
That’s quite a list of services set to completely disappear (and this doesn’t include those where only sections of routes are being cut):
X22
X46
X62
X70
25
28
28A
28B
29
30
38
38A
38C
47A
55
62
62A
69
82
734
V3
Killing all of these services and slashing several others, despite there still being 2 months BRG remaining beyond the proposed cut date, suggests little interest or commitment in trying to support the/giving it time for recovery of the network. Just shows what an utter waste of money the BRG has been – prop up services when no one was using them just for the private companies to pull out as people begin to return. It’s a damn shame to see Northern being run into the ground by the current management. But at least all the withdrawn buses will be nice and shiny advertising the lost routes – great business sense.
As others have pointed out, it is notable that SNE and ANE have maintaned much greater proportions of their networks, with mainly just frequency changes. Yes SNE stepped back from a couple of services in Newcastle but nothing on the scale of the GNE cuts of which this must now be the second or third round since the Sept 2021 slashing. Wonder if we will get a 90 odd page promotional brochure to support these cuts too.
Since I'm not really up to date on my routes, how many of the routes that are potentially being withdrawn are the sole route that serves an area, and not just slimming down on duplicate services.
As I've said before, it's a surprise they're not cutting back on the X21 and 21 extensions as they're just duplicating Arriva's routes. With the whole 'enhanced partnership' thing, they should really be withdrawn
(16 May 2022, 1:41 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]Can you explain what this actually means?
Surely the changing needs, are that customers have less of a need to use the bus, rather than a specific new need?
What is this new obvious requirement that they are missing out on?
The evolution of business parks and retail parks happened well before the pandemic. Yet what sort of public transport offer do we see to these areas? Either before the pandemic started or since?
How easy is it to get from Birtley to Team Valley for work or retail? They're literally 1 or 2 junctions apart, but a trip out on public transport involves heading off in the wrong direction.
Ditto Washington.
How many buses bypass Newcastle Business Park or Quorum? But go straight in to the City Centre?
How easy is it to get from Howdon to Cobalt using the bus?
You've had people cut off from hospital appointments because the 25 needed to be sent via Harlow Green. Now those same people potentially don't have a bus service at all.
There's slip roads being improved at Seaton and Doxford International. They're one junction apart on the A19. But people couldn't get a bus prior to the pandemic and certainly can't now.
Millions spent improving traffic flows at Testos and Silverlink. Not because of bus lanes and the upsurge in demand for public transport. But for cars needing to get from A-B, without having to go via X, Y and Z.
These aren't new, obvious things. They're things which are needed and have been ignored for decades.
(16 May 2022, 2:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The evolution of business parks and retail parks happened well before the pandemic. Yet what sort of public transport offer do we see to these areas? Either before the pandemic started or since?
How easy is it to get from Birtley to Team Valley for work or retail? They're literally 1 or 2 junctions apart, but a trip out on public transport involves heading off in the wrong direction.
Ditto Washington.
How many buses bypass Newcastle Business Park or Quorum? But go straight in to the City Centre?
How easy is it to get from Howdon to Cobalt using the bus?
You've had people cut off from hospital appointments because the 25 needed to be sent via Harlow Green. Now those same people potentially don't have a bus service at all.
There's slip roads being improved at Seaton and Doxford International. They're one junction apart on the A19. But people couldn't get a bus prior to the pandemic and certainly can't now.
Millions spent improving traffic flows at Testos and Silverlink. Not because of bus lanes and the upsurge in demand for public transport. But for cars needing to get from A-B, without having to go via X, Y and Z.
These aren't new, obvious things. They're things which are needed and have been ignored for decades.
The 22 sorted this one out a while back.
Although I would agree with your other points, there doesn't seem to be any interest or innovation from Go North East to change the network to suit the needs of passengers.
I think there's something to the areas that we're seeing massive changes too. All of these are areas where massive new build estates have been popping up over a number of years (Birtley, Hebburn, Ouston and many other areas) that are designed for car owners, approved by planners without a single thought of providing any form of public transport outside of the existing network (which in the case of Birtley near 4 massive new build estates they are axing the 25 and 82)
on the changes -
GNE are essentially cutting off Kibblesworth and Ouston with the demise of the 28s - who'd have thought the long meandering never ending route to town (with exception of the 28) and the awful terminus point at Market Street wouldn't grow numbers?
Nexus will no doubt step in to save Kibblesworth but with Ouston you could easily extend the 34 down into Birtley (like the old 734) to maintain links and flog a few 'piece of cake' tickets
Why send the 1 back to Wrekenton to the no doubt detriment of passengers down route.
well the 28a 28b and 29 all serve a village called kibblesworth. They have there pitchforks at the ready although ive heard someone from go north east is availble to come down and speak to they if they want
The 69 is only direct bus to Qe from winlaton, whickham so when those 2 villages find out they are losing it.... oooooooh dear
either the 28 or the 25 goes through wreckenton along the top road. Im sure that's the only bus service except for a taxi bust on weekdays.
I think I had a fairly positive view of Martijn when he came into GNE but I'm increasingly of the view he's a 'peacetime PM' as they say and absolutely not suited to the current challenging environment. He's tried and failed, let someone else have a go?
(16 May 2022, 2:10 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I think there's something to the areas that we're seeing massive changes too. All of these are areas where massive new build estates have been popping up over a number of years (Birtley, Hebburn, Ouston and many other areas) that are designed for car owners, approved by planners without a single thought of providing any form of public transport outside of the existing network (which in the case of Birtley near 4 massive new build estates they are axing the 25 and 82)
on the changes -
GNE are essentially cutting off Kibblesworth and Ouston with the demise of the 28s - who'd have thought the long meandering never ending route to town (with exception of the 28) and the awful terminus point at Market Street wouldn't grow numbers?
Nexus will no doubt step in to save Kibblesworth but with Ouston you could easily extend the 34 down into Birtley (like the old 734) to maintain links and flog a few 'piece of cake' tickets
Why send the 1 back to Wrekenton to the no doubt detriment of passengers down route.
Is there no wat GNE could divert an x-lines service from consett or stanley to Kibblesworth? Would be nice to get a bus with wifi, next stop announcements, nice paint job, charging points....