(27 Jul 2022, 6:32 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Probably because Nexus seem to have a rule that everyone should have a bus stop (with a service) within 400m of their house (presumably just a radius and not by walking distance). If a bus stop loses its commercial service and it serves people who have no other alternative bus within 400m, that service gets subsidised (hence the 39B). As to why the evening services are only hourly - I'm going to guess that either they can't afford it, or none of the bidders proposed a more frequent service for a descent price.
That's fair enough to some degree. I still don't understand why for instance they fund for a bus to go through several side streets in Springwell for example when the main stops are probably within a reasaonable walking distance for pretty much all parts of the village. They have two high frequency services run through the village throughout the day that run to Wrekenton, Concord and the Galleries. I agree parts of Donwell need service coverage and I think Go North East should send the 84/5 to serve the bus stop near the shops instead. That shouldn't add too much time if any onto the journey.
(27 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It still doesn't really make much difference though. GNE at the same time have paid millions to their shareholders while every single tax payer has been finding bus services that the majority will never use whether that's the 23, 84 or 85 etc.
The 23 runs in local estates or TB14 which I believe it is now which otherwise wouldn't have a service at all.
The reason it's been cut is because they're funding the 25, 28, 29, 39B, 81, 82, 83, 67 and 69 instead pretty much.
That's fair enough, and GNE are far from innocent. I'm certainly sceptical of how they flood certain areas with services and give others few or next to nothing! They could certainly do more to make things fairer, no doubt!
(27 Jul 2022, 6:36 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]Exactly the point that was made my some of the Independent Operators such as JH Coaches during a meeting with Nexus when it came to discussing tenders with them from what a driver on the 82 told me this afternoon.
I said to the driver the 82 has been ran like a joke by Go North East over the years, firstly they were operating it commercially throughout the day/evening then were getting funding on an evening because it wasn't viable to operate, then at several points over the past 10 years the evenings have been contracted to another operators such as Arriva and Gateshead Central Taxis for a period before Go North East have then won the contract back.
Personally for me I don't think they should be running the evening/sunday ops of the 81 when they lost the daytime contract in the first place probably because they did not make a low enough bid or they didn't bid at all, I certainly think the contracts should be tendered to cover daytime/evening service as singular contract and not two separate ones and it is great to see an independent like JH take a stand like they have and challenged Nexus on the operations of services by Go North East and I certainly hope to see more contract been given to these operators in the future rather than Go North East taking the very large majority like they do.
The good news side of things ticket acceptance is in place for Go North East tickets to be used on the 82 and the driver I spoke reported there been some good numbers on new section of the route between Birtley and Gateshead, the journey I got on at 15:45 from The Galleries was the quietest the driver had all day.
Yes I found it laughable how GNE won the contract for pretty much the same route they scrapped for. This is a very valid point! I'd love to see JH Travel winning more contracts and even running services commercially some time in the future. This would help GNE on their toes and maybe help them buck their ideas up.
(27 Jul 2022, 7:02 pm)Washingtonian wrote [ -> ]Yes I found it laughable how GNE won the contract for pretty much the same route they scrapped for. This is a very valid point! I'd love to see JH Travel winning more contracts and even running services commercially some time in the future. This would help GNE on their toes and maybe help them buck their ideas up.
But the thing is, loads of independent operators having contracts without any ticket acceptence is just bad, its bad for the customer.
(27 Jul 2022, 6:27 pm)Washingtonian wrote [ -> ]Not really in this instance as Nexus have funded a lot of evening services for several years as most would be making losses if ran commercially. I'lll re-iterate the point again about the 23. Hardly ever a soul on it - yet the route gets funded again and again in some form. How does this make sense when other areas use the bus more but have services taken away from them.
Because Nexus has to answer to local councillors, as it’s the local councils that fund Nexus.
A lot of the money that would have funded 30 minute evening services has been redirected to fund daytime services (eg 28/29, 67/69, 82/82A) and early morning and evening services that GNE used to operate commercially but are now funded by Nexus.
(27 Jul 2022, 7:07 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But the thing is, loads of independent operators having contracts without any ticket acceptence is just bad, its bad for the customer.
Ticket acceptance is now in place, I got the 82 this afternoon with a Go North East All Zones pass without any issues.
(27 Jul 2022, 7:35 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]Because Nexus has to answer to local councillors, as it’s the local councils that fund Nexus.
A lot of the money that would have funded 30 minute evening services has been redirected to fund daytime services (eg 28/29, 67/69, 82/82A) and early morning and evening services that GNE used to operate commercially but are now funded by Nexus.
Out of curiosity what percentage of Go North East Services are now operated under financial support compared to that of which are ran commercially?
(27 Jul 2022, 7:07 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But the thing is, loads of independent operators having contracts without any ticket acceptence is just bad, its bad for the customer.
Yes I understand that but if there were more independents it would provide a challenge for GNE to be more competitive in terms of services and price. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that JH Travel are a lot cheaper than GNE in terms of fares as well.
Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?
(27 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?
Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.
It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.
But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses, a change at the Galleries and the best part of 45mins - there's only going to be one winner. It goes without saying, it's going to be less attractive on nights. Even before the last lot of Nexus bail outs.
Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car along the A1231 or two buses and a change at Concord or The Galleries. Looking at journey of potentially an hour plus depending on connections using public transport.
Donwell to BAE Systems via bus? Nah. Not even worth it.
Sulgrave to Rolls Royce? Someone might have completed it.
I've not even bothered working out how difficult it would be to get to other key employment sites beyond the Washington boundary, in places like Drum Industrial Estate or Team Valley.
I just know its pretty much impossible to see the value in ditching the car and making the switch to bus.
Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.
(27 Jul 2022, 7:35 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]Because Nexus has to answer to local councillors, as it’s the local councils that fund Nexus.
A lot of the money that would have funded 30 minute evening services has been redirected to fund daytime services (eg 28/29, 67/69, 82/82A) and early morning and evening services that GNE used to operate commercially but are now funded by Nexus.
Yes I understand it must be difficult but regardless of the reasons behind the cuts, its ultimately the customer that suffers as a result. It's not acceptable to expect any passenger to wait up to an hour for bus any time of the day really. Imagine you rely on a bus and you finish work at 10pm for example and you miss your bus - waiting somewhere or walking in the dark for nearly an hour will really put people off. Not everyone can walk or walk that far or some people don't like walking in the dark for safety reasons. Half an hour is a long enough wait but an hour is just shocking!
I think GNE should consider buying some smaller minibuses/breadvans, such as the Mercedes Sprinter for their evening work and less busy services. There is plenty of room inside these buses compared to the Renault/Dodge ones in the 90s and are wheelchair/pushchair accessable and they will be able to get around the streets a lot easier - allowing places with limited room to be served as well. They would also be a lot more fuel efficient.
(27 Jul 2022, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.
It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.
But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins in the car during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses and a change at the Galleries, it's going to be less attractive on nights.
Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car or two buses and a change at Concord.
Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.
With enough volume to justify a service? I find that very hard to believe
(27 Jul 2022, 9:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Genuine question. Is there anything happening in Washington after 19:00 to justify a better service?
Well there are a lot of factories in the area and a lot of people have to late work shifts as one example. Plus there are some people who travel to and from the likes of Newcastle and Sunderland and they need their connecting bus home. Some shops, restaurants and leisure facilties are open late too.
(27 Jul 2022, 9:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Apart from people working in the various facilities that operate 24 hours a day, visiting family, hospital visits in Gateshead and Sunderland, having social lives locally and further afield etc?
Nah, nowt.
It's a place that doesn't need or deserve a better service and as a result, those people who could use a bus after 7pm will be encouraged to use alternative means of transport during the day.
But seriously, if it takes someone 5mins during the day to get from Ayton to one of the Asda RDC's in the car or a couple of buses, a change at the Galleries and the best part of 45mins - there's only going to be one winner. It goes without saying, it's going to be less attractive on nights. Even before the last lot of Nexus bail outs.
Ditto someone going from Blackfell to Nissan. A few mins in the car along the A1231 or two buses and a change at Concord or The Galleries. Looking at journey of potentially an hour plus depending on connections using public transport.
Donwell to BAE Systems via bus? Nah. Not even worth it.
Sulgrave to Rolls Royce? Someone might have completed it.
I've not even bothered working out how difficult it would be to get to other key employment sites beyond the Washington boundary, in places like Drum Industrial Estate or Team Valley.
I just know its pretty much impossible to see the value in ditching the car and making the switch to bus.
Another network of routes that doesn't work for anyone other than the operator.
Completely agree. Well said
(27 Jul 2022, 10:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]With enough volume to justify a service? I find that very hard to believe
Because absolutely nobody has tried in the last 30 years to offer the service to Washington. It’s lost hope of a metro in our life time., it’s bus network is a complicated mess and they’ve literally driven people to the car.
Unimaginative commercial teams are looking at hybrid working and not seeing opportunity, they are seeing cut cut cut and superfluous changes especially in Washington
(27 Jul 2022, 10:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]With enough volume to justify a service? I find that very hard to believe
67,000 people living in Washington and many more travelling from outlying areas just for work with dozens of major employers, every single day on a 24 hour basis.
Yet not enough volume to justify a service...
(27 Jul 2022, 10:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]67,000 people living in Washington and many more travelling from outlying areas just for work, every single day on a 24 hour basis.
Yet not enough volume to justify a service...
Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions
(27 Jul 2022, 10:15 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Because absolutely nobody has tried in the last 30 years to offer the service to Washington. It’s lost hope of a metro in our life time., it’s bus network is a complicated mess and they’ve literally driven people to the car.
Unimaginative commercial teams are looking at hybrid working and not seeing opportunity, they are seeing cut cut cut and superfluous changes especially in Washington
Washington, like most of the North East is dead after 1900. Its no surprise that buses have followed society in being dead behind the eyes after dark
(27 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions
In which case, the population and workforce clog the roads up, avoid public transport like the plague and are victim to incessant complaints from bus operators who find their vehicles stuck in traffic, whilst at the same time seeing a constant downward spiral in usage.
Repeat ad infinitum.
Which one is it?
The bus network that adapts routes to suit the population or a bus network that stagnates and sees more cuts than a hair dressers on Chester front street?
(27 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Not to repeat the great MG, but car sized problems have car sized solutions
Washington, like most of the North East is dead after 1900. Its no surprise that buses have followed society in being dead behind the eyes after dark
Because if you’re heading out after 7pm…there isn’t a bus or it’s woefully slow
the dead after 7pm thing is such archaic thinking that infests commercial operators, even Metro try to tempt people on board with theatre offers etc…GNE who are by far the most backward of the regional operators just lower fares on their existing network founded in the 90s and wonder why nobody bothers
(27 Jul 2022, 10:30 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Because if you’re heading out after 7pm…there isn’t a bus or it’s woefully slow
the dead after 7pm thing is such archaic thinking that infests commercial operators, even Metro try to tempt people on board with theatre offers etc…GNE who are by far the most backward of the regional operators just lower fares on their existing network founded in the 90s and wonder why nobody bothers
Gonna be fun for those living in Washington and trying to get a bus back from the match!
Or, they can just drive in/out and clog all the roads up around Gateshead and Newcastle...
But then you're gonna get the anti 'alive after 5 brigade' complaining, sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "la, la, la can't hear you, we need some more money and some priority measures" when the point about poor public transport is being made.
"can't get home from the match, or get to work on nights cos the buses are rubbish"
"it's OK, because we are going to paint some buses, bang the drum for bus priority measures and hold our begging bowl out for more money. We need to stop free parking too".
"nah mate, you don't get it. You need to give me an alternative to the car. It needs to take me to the places I need to be. Not the places you think I want to be or leave me standing around a bus station somewhere for half an hour or leave me with a 45min walk home".
"bang the drum. Bus priority measures. Paint. Titivations!"
(27 Jul 2022, 10:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]In which case, the population and workforce clog the roads up, avoid public transport like the plague and are victim to incessant complaints from bus operators who find their vehicles stuck in traffic, whilst at the same time seeing a constant downward spiral in usage.
Repeat ad infinitum.
Which one is it?
The bus network that adapts routes to suit the population or a bus network that stagnates and sees more cuts than a hair dressers on Chester front street?
So let's say a couple of units on the Crowther has a shift change at 10pm. 15 people leave at that time. 1 lives in the Birtley, 1 lives in Fawdon, 1 lives in Hebburn, 1 lives in Biddick. 1 lives in Barmston, 2 live in Portmeads, 2 live in Chester, 1 lives in Houghton, 1 lives in Pelton, 1 lives in Seaham, 1 lives in Cleadon and 2 live near Fewster Square. How do you provide a bus service for that? You can't unless you value placing large quantities of money in the bin and setting it alight.
(27 Jul 2022, 10:37 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]So let's say a couple of units on the Crowther has a shift change at 10pm. 15 people leave at that time. 1 lives in the Birtley, 1 lives in Fawdon, 1 lives in Hebburn, 1 lives in Biddick. 1 lives in Barmston, 2 live in Portmeads, 2 live in Chester, 1 lives in Houghton, 1 lives in Pelton, 1 lives in Seaham, 1 lives in Cleadon and 2 live near Fewster Square. How do you provide a bus service for that? You can't unless you value placing large quantities of money in the bin and setting it alight.
Or compare a couple of units at Crowther, to the huge Asda RDC's, BAE, Rolls Royce, Nissan etc and the thousands rolling in and out several times a day.
If that already busy bus (which already picked people up at Nissan and Asda) happens to be scheduled to roll through Crowther (on its way to BAE and Rolls Royce) as the 2 units end their shift of 15 people, then there's a bit of a Brucey Bonus if 1/3 of the workforce who live in Portmeads, Birtley and Chester jump on and pay their fares!
The operator is quids in, the punters can get home in fairly quick time and it all shows what can be achieved when a plan comes together!
(27 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It still doesn't really make much difference though. GNE at the same time have paid millions to their shareholders while every single tax payer has been finding bus services that the majority will never use whether that's the 23, 84 or 85 etc.
The 23 runs in local estates or TB14 which I believe it is now which otherwise wouldn't have a service at all.
The reason it's been cut is because they're funding the 25, 28, 29, 39B, 81, 82, 83, 67 and 69 instead pretty much.
There is probably barely double figures of GNE routes which get no support of councils