(23 Aug 2017, 4:55 pm)Jimmi wrote At least the StreetDeck is being trialled on some demanding routes rather than just being trialled 
on a town/city route and then they buy them for these demanding routes and hope they perform alright on them.

This is true. I fully anticipate that the Streetdeck will do an alright job on them in its demonstration period, however I don't think long term they would be a good buy. 

I think where we could see them, if bought, is replacing the VDLs on the Blyth express routes.

Do you think any Northern operators such as will look at the Ensignbus BCI Enterprise? Have raved about this bus since seeing a video of it but has exactly the same engine as an E400/E400MMC (Cummins 6.7) and sounds a lot better and robust bar a few rattles. Sounds more like a combo of a Cummins / Gardiner Olympian / Volvo Engined Olympian / Volvo B9TL. The bus is also heavily based on it's tri-axile counter part (minus the 8.9 engine).

Here's the video somebody has posted on youtube, sounds and seems to perform class (credit goes to the uploader for this).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoN6A8mJUc4

And here's a write up on Route One with reports of 9mpg (similar to a Streetdeck?)
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Test_D..._in_the_UK

(23 Aug 2017, 4:20 pm)Jimmi wrote I'd say that the X26/X27 & X75/X76 are somewhat similar in terms of demands for routes although the X66/X67 are a bit more duel carriageway road blastings, the Middlesbrough - Saltburn stretch of the X3/X4 routes would probably be a better comparison and whilst the StreetLite's can sit at 50mph easily enough,  I think you would maybe have to add a little bit of extra running time to these services to ensure that they have enough running time, even the worst Omnicity's branded for the X66/X67 allocation can manage about 55mph, so I think a bus limited to 50mph may not be the best fit, EcoCity's manage 52mph, unsure about E200 MMC's but think it may me more than both of them? 

Id disagree, Yes they probably have the same amount of flat out running but the 8/78 also benefit from slower area's along the route, Which let's the Streetlite's to take a breather while en route, While the X26/27/66/67 are mostly sat at the Speed Limiter for the whole route.
The Ecocity's are on a heavy duty chassis, And are powered by a more than capable engine underneath, Coupled to a Heavy duty Gearbox the ZF Ecolife, The Ex Demo's can sit at 65 or over easily, Baffles me why Arriva decided to limit there's to such a such a underperforming speed.
Long E200MMC's are limited to the 50ish mark, I believe due to Chassis Limitations due to them being on a lightweight chassis, Same thing that bugged the E300 when that was produced, Even though that was supposedly a " Heavy Duty Bus "

(23 Aug 2017, 2:45 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Surely E200 MMCs would be a more superior option than StreetLites?

In a way, Yes. But even they shouldn't be chucked on expresses either in my opinion. Standard spec for Arriva so far is pretty much the cheapest option, ADL's standard offering of the 4.5L, 4 Cylinder Cummins with the Dinky Voith ( The model Voith which is normally restricted to less torque 4 Cylinder's in the UK for Town Work ) Stagecoach atleast seen some sense in specifying the Heavy Duty 6.7L 6 Cylinder Cummins which could easily handle Demanding work, Which is the reason ADL offered in the first place!

A perfect Express in my opinion is the like's of the Volvo B8RLE,Scania K270UB or Mercedes O295N Citaro, All heavy duty Chassis/Engines with Bags of Power and Torque giving them perfect pulling into Fast Traffic and Sitting at 50-60mph.
McGill's have bought 2 batches of Euro6 Citaro's ( All being used on Long Distance Express's out of Glasgow down the M8 ) and they are a absolute dream, Setup for the route's perfectly, Reasonably Quiet, And will sit at around 60mph the whole way.

Unfortunately I've probably put a lot more effort into making this Essay than what Arriva will look at when ordering, 4 Cylinder E200's with dinky Voith's screaming to a North Yorkshire Village near you next year?...

Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for Ser 1/5/12/19 next year in Sapphire spec.

The DD recently moved from Durham will remain generic, for use il on both, primarily the busy BA college runs on Service 5.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

(23 Aug 2017, 8:20 pm)RobinHood wrote Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for See 1/5/12/19 next year.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

Is there any actual point in trialling one if it's seemingly already being decided that they are being bought for the services in question?

(23 Aug 2017, 8:20 pm)RobinHood wrote Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for Ser 1/5/12/19 next year in Sapphire spec.

The DD recently moved from Durham will remain generic, for use il on both, primarily the busy BA college runs on Service 5.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

That makes more sense.

Pretty bonkers but necessary detour for Coxhoe services, this weekend. One of the roads was tricky enough on the scarlet band 58, almost coming face to face with someone's living room to let the 57A through, and I noticed that the X12 had gone the same way!

Demonstrator StreetLite SK17HHL has entered passenger service at Darlington depot today on the 1/5/5A/12 circuit. It's currently on the 14:42 5 to Darlington Town Centre.
Arriva North East: SK17HHL by Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr

(25 Aug 2017, 2:52 pm)Jimmi wrote Demonstrator StreetLite SK17HHL has entered passenger service at Darlington depot today on the 1/5/5A/12 circuit. It's currently on the 14:42 5 to Darlington Town Centre.
Arriva North East: SK17HHL by Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr

Apparently this one has a higher spec engine, hence the trial.

StreetDeck SK17 HHC has moved to Redcar, for use there instead of the high-speed interurban routes at Ashington.

(25 Aug 2017, 2:54 pm)RobinHood wrote Apparently this one has a higher spec engine, hence the trial.

Also has stop-start technology it seems as well. Had a ride on it this afternoon on the 5 from Bishop Auckland to Newton Aycliffe and it got up Eldon Bank alright, I would say it's possibly better than some StreetLite's I've been on recently but still can't bring myself to like them personally.

I recorded a video of parts of the journey I made on it this afternoon: https://youtu.be/TppDyBhJHzo

(25 Aug 2017, 5:18 pm)omnicity4659 wrote StreetDeck SK17 HHC has moved to Redcar, for use there instead of the high-speed interurban routes at Ashington.

So, what exactly was the point of sending it there initially, did they have a change of mind this week without even seeing it in service? 

Does anyone know how long the 2 Demo Buses will be on trial for?

(25 Aug 2017, 7:56 pm)mb134 wrote So, what exactly was the point of sending it there initially, did they have a change of mind this week without even seeing it in service? 

Top speed is 50mph, and as StreetLites can't keep to time on any of the expresses its been decided its useless!

Don't want to go off topic too much here but it's a bit of a sad way that Wrightbus and the bus industry has gone in general. Yes there is some big demand for lightweight and fuel efficient vehicles and these should be ordered where suited and are suitable for a good few routes. But, looking at the double decker markets, there are only 3x options for more heavy duty work or intense interurban work now:

- ADL E400MMC with ZF (meaning competitors subsidising Stagecoach not that Arriva seem to mind as such lately but might change)
- Scania ADL E400MMC with ZF (good but too heavy duty)
- Ensignbus BCI Excellence (looks good but unproven)

Wrightbus should consider offering the Streetdeck and Streetlites with bigger engines (Cummins 6.7?) and gearbox options that are approproately setup as required.

(25 Aug 2017, 9:52 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Top speed is 50mph, and as StreetLites can't keep to time on any of the expresses its been decided its useless!

Wonder what the hell was going through the heads of whoever sent it to Ashington in the first place at this point! Assuming someone at Ashington depot piped up and told someone that trialling it on the Alnwick expresses would be a completely pointless task if it was limited to 50?

They are going to be seriously hard pressed in a couple of years when it comes to replacing 7412-6, 4653/9, and probably 7511-3 (Including 7511-13 in that because, while only 9 years old, they've had a rough 9 years). One double deck on the market has already been ruled out, currently it seems pigs will fly before Arriva buy anything with a Volvo chassis (even though B8RLEs are probably the best option to replace 4653/9) and Streetlites/E200MMCs aren't capable. That leaves E400 MMCs, and the ones on the X21/22 don't strike me with an awful lot of confidence.

---

(25 Aug 2017, 10:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote Don't want to go off topic too much here but it's a bit of a sad way that Wrightbus and the bus industry has gone in general. Yes there is some big demand for lightweight and fuel efficient vehicles and these should be ordered where suited and are suitable for a good few routes. But, looking at the double decker markets, there are only 3x options for more heavy duty work or intense interurban work now:

- ADL E400MMC with ZF (meaning competitors subsidising Stagecoach not that Arriva seem to mind as such lately but might change)
- Scania ADL E400MMC with ZF (good but too heavy duty)
- Ensignbus BCI Excellence (looks good but unproven)

Wrightbus should consider offering the Streetdeck and Streetlites with bigger engines (Cummins 6.7?) and gearbox options that are approproately setup as required.

I'm a bit baffled as to why Arriva moved to Voith gearboxes in the MMCs for the X21/22. When they get to speed they seem quite happy to sit there, but it takes far too long to get there! It seems strange to move away from a set up that was working very well in 7522-33, which all perform brilliantly on express services.

(25 Aug 2017, 10:11 pm)mb134 wrote Wonder what the hell was going through the heads of whoever sent it to Ashington in the first place at this point! Assuming someone at Ashington depot piped up and told someone that trialling it on the Alnwick expresses would be a completely pointless task if it was limited to 50?

They are going to be seriously hard pressed in a couple of years when it comes to replacing 7412-6, 4653/9, and probably 7511-3 (Including 7511-13 in that because, while only 9 years old, they've had a rough 9 years). One double deck on the market has already been ruled out, currently it seems pigs will fly before Arriva buy anything with a Volvo chassis (even though B8RLEs are probably the best option to replace 4653/9) and Streetlites/E200MMCs aren't capable. That leaves E400 MMCs, and the ones on the X21/22 don't strike me with an awful lot of confidence.

Wonder how that happened. 

What I'm told is that the X15 is earmarked for new buses next year, when I was told about the StreetDeck coming for trials, the lad did say that those were the types that were coming. 

What I assume will happen, is that the E400s off the X15 cascade onto the X20, withdrawing or transferring 7412-6.

(25 Aug 2017, 10:32 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Wonder how that happened. 

What I'm told is that the X15 is earmarked for new buses next year, when I was told about the StreetDeck coming for trials, the lad did say that those were the types that were coming. 

What I assume will happen, is that the E400s off the X15 cascade onto the X20, withdrawing or transferring 7412-6.

It's suicide if they are the type coming. The X15 needs all the help it can get as it is, putting buses on that are limited to 50mph is as close to giving up the service as you can get. It stinks of Arriva, as per usual, doing everything on the cheap. The decision to buy B9TLs for the X93 was clearly, as feared, a false dawn. They took over a successful business in Northumbria, that specified buses highly, and bought vehicles appropriate for the routes they'd be allocated to, and have ran it into the ground. 

Again, moving 7511-3 to the X20 is just a disaster waiting to happen. They've been blasted up and down the A1 for the past 9 years, and to expect them to continue to do so is sheer folly. Those 3 should really be moved to the 35 if anything, 7514 is the only one branded for the X15 that should be kept on the expresses. Both the X15 and X20 need brand new vehicles, and not things that are limited to 50mph that will have absolutely no chance of keeping anything on time.

The Streetdeck demonstrator is operating on the X93 today - it left Middlesbrough at 0850 I believe.

(25 Aug 2017, 10:48 pm)mb134 wrote It's suicide if they are the type coming. The X15 needs all the help it can get as it is, putting buses on that are limited to 50mph is as close to giving up the service as you can get. It stinks of Arriva, as per usual, doing everything on the cheap. The decision to buy B9TLs for the X93 was clearly, as feared, a false dawn. They took over a successful business in Northumbria, that specified buses highly, and bought vehicles appropriate for the routes they'd be allocated to, and have ran it into the ground. 

Again, moving 7511-3 to the X20 is just a disaster waiting to happen. They've been blasted up and down the A1 for the past 9 years, and to expect them to continue to do so is sheer folly. Those 3 should really be moved to the 35 if anything, 7514 is the only one branded for the X15 that should be kept on the expresses. Both the X15 and X20 need brand new vehicles, and not things that are limited to 50mph that will have absolutely no chance of keeping anything on time.

With the rumors of the North East getting Streetlite's for Darlington next year, I'm worrying that the possibility of Streetdecks for Alnwick route's is highly likely.
B9TL's for the X93 in my opinion has to have been one of there better decisions ( bar that there basically still in Dealer Stock spec with headrests) but its the fact theve continued to wreck there buses in the name of saving fuel ( fitting Econospeed to them in this case ) which has absolutely wrecked there potential on such a demanding route, There pretty much useless on there now going by last ride on the route.

Another thing that baffles me is pretty much all divisions now ordering ADL, Which to be fair is a much Heavy Duty as your going to get at Arriva. Yet we are still sticking with Wrightbus Integral's despite continuous mistakes made by buying them in the past, Streetlites for the X1 etc...
We are one of only 2 or 3 divisions in the country that is ( until now ) trying to find a suitable setup for that god awful Econospeed chip, Which is causing more problems with it fitted than when it isn't.

If this was Stagecoach running exactly the same service's they would have bought Scania N230UD E400's years back before considering them for the new N250UD MMC, All with either High Backed Seating or Stagecoach Gold spec instead, Keeping Driver's/Passengers in comfort and more than likely saving money in the long run...

I'm a bit baffled as to why Arriva moved to Voith gearboxes in the MMCs for the X21/22. When they get to speed they seem quite happy to sit there, but it takes far too long to get there! It seems strange to move away from a set up that was working very well in 7522-33, which all perform brilliantly on express services.
[/quote]

Arriva moved to Voith because there a whole lot cheaper to maintain than ZF despite being unsuitable for the work there doing, They also specified Voith because they are the only ones yet to interwork with the Cummins Stop Start system, Which is specified on all new ADL orders ( again, Another ridiculous money save (ie blower ) )

(25 Aug 2017, 10:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote Don't want to go off topic too much here but it's a bit of a sad way that Wrightbus and the bus industry has gone in general. Yes there is some big demand for lightweight and fuel efficient vehicles and these should be ordered where suited and are suitable for a good few routes. But, looking at the double decker markets, there are only 3x options for more heavy duty work or intense interurban work now:

- ADL E400MMC with ZF (meaning competitors subsidising Stagecoach not that Arriva seem to mind as such lately but might change)
- Scania ADL E400MMC with ZF (good but too heavy duty)
- Ensignbus BCI Excellence (looks good but unproven)

Wrightbus should consider offering the Streetdeck and Streetlites with bigger engines (Cummins 6.7?) and gearbox options that are approproately setup as required.

The fact lightweight Bus Chassis have became so successful bugs me a bit, Perfect for town work. But the fact Operators are killing there own services/imgine with Jerkey Braking, Whiplash inducing gearbox downshift's ( due to being setup to setup more alike to a modern heavy duty bus but having the same pressure placed on a dinky engine ) Awful build quality and are driving Driver's crazy due to how bad they are in all categories. The only lightweight chassis in my eyes that are capable of heavy duty work were the Cummins Powered Optare Versa or the Enviro300, Both now discontinued...

Wrightbus did offer the ZF Ecolife when Euro6 first rolled over, But it was quietly discontinued. Why should they invest more in bigger engines options? There raking in now thanks to crap loopholes which should never been aloud in the first place.

We woudnt of been in this predicament anyways if wasn't for Government actually thinking there tacky Micro-Hybrid system was worthy of claiming BSOG payments. Streetlite sales before BSOG passing and DDA deadlines were terrible, Probably would've been pulled by now if it wasn't for those, After rolling out there Micro-Hybrid crap was when they started seeing there pound signs..

In terms of the StreetDeck, I would say that it's a vehicle aimed at routes akin to the following criteria:

- Urban Routes such as ANE's 308, GNE's 21.

- Developing and growing routes such as GNE's X21 bearing in mind that it currently has a layover at Bishop Auckland.

Another route in which it would be justified getting Streetdecks but already has E400s would be the 7 due to the variable load factors. The same could also go for the 4x decker boards on the Red Kite which also fall under the same criteria. Not suggesting upgrades on the above routes but just highlighting examples.

However, where a route is more demanding but stable and profitable, then a slightly more heavy duty vehicle could be warranted. The X15 is a proven route and warrants vehicles fit for purpose.

Any idea how long the StreetDeck will be on trial for in the North East?

@S830OFT
Supposedly, the StreetDeck is here until Friday.

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

(27 Aug 2017, 10:20 am)Jimmi wrote @S830OFT
Supposedly, the StreetDeck is here until Friday.

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

That comes as a Suprise, you would usually expect operators to have a Demo on trial for around a month.

@S830OFT

Demonstration loans tend to vary by operator and manufacturer, Go North East only had the Enviro400 City and MMC demonstrators for about a fortnight each (the former later got a second two week trial). One thing to bare in mind is we got this on Monday but spent half the week in Ashington depot not doing anything.

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

(27 Aug 2017, 10:43 am)Jimmi wrote @S830OFT

Demonstration loans tend to vary by operator and manufacturer, Go North East only had the Enviro400 City and MMC demonstrators for about a fortnight each (the former later got a second two week trial). One thing to bare in mind is we got this on Monday but spent half the week in Ashington depot not doing anything.

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

I hope to sample the StreetDeck on Wednesday, I think it's on a set board by Redcar because it was on the board that starts at Mbro at 08:50.

@S830OFT

It's at Redcar depot, so will either be the 08:50 or 09:50 off Middlesbrough Bus Station then spend the day on Scarborough - Whitby runs and head back to Middlesbrough from Scarborough at either 17:25 or 18:25. Was the 08:50 off Middlesbrough yesterday.

I'm going to try and catch it either on Tuesday or Wednesday.

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7416 has returned to Ashington from refurbishment which saw the high back Civic V3s and USB chargers fitted along with chrome handrails.

Contactless Payment stickers are currently being rolled out across the whole fleet.

(29 Aug 2017, 2:41 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Contactless Payment stickers are currently being rolled out across the whole fleet.

Vast majority of Darlington's buses have had these fitted within the last week or so.