(27 Dec 2019, 11:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote NEW Service 4, Newcastle - Gosforth - Quorum - Killingworth, operating every 30 minutes Mon-Sat xx:10 and XX:40 from Newcastle, XX:20 and XX:50 from Gosforth, XX:31 and XX:51 from Quarum and XX:40 and XX:10 arrival into Killingworth Bus Station, departing at XX:15 and XX:45 towards Newcastle.

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Also renumbering the 11 to 43 is a good idea. As 4 is currently in use for the Connections 4, maybe the new service could be numbered 44 or 64.

This isn't GNE's area so would never happen plus there's no demand for it with the X7, X8, X63, 63, 52 and 54 already doing the bus route in parts or more express.

Unless you want Stagecoach buses going along Durham Road they would never even think about it. There's a reason why GoNorthEast dominate Gateshead, Arriva SE Northumberland and Stagecoach the West End. The Q3 is different as it is (or was) a contracted service by the Great Park. They wont risk this again - http://www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-e...et-4419286

Durham service changes
21- Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Birtley-Chester-le-Street-Durham-Croxdale-Tudhoe-Spennymoor-Bishop Auckland-Woodhouse-Tindale Cresent-West Auckland (Every 30 minutes)
21A- Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Birtley-Chester-le-Street (Every 10 minutes)
X21- To run between Newcastle and Durham every 15 minutes- will now observe all stops between Chester-le-Street and Durham.

PVR:
Angel 21/21A- PVR 19: 6302-6303 & 6315-6331
X21- PVR 8: 6304-6307, 6332-6333 and the 2 new streetdecks when they arrive.

(29 Dec 2019, 11:17 am)michaelb wrote Durham service changes
21- Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Birtley-Chester-le-Street-Durham-Croxdale-Tudhoe-Spennymoor-Bishop Auckland-Woodhouse-Tindale Cresent-West Auckland (Every 30 minutes)
21A- Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Birtley-Chester-le-Street (Every 10 minutes)
X21- To run between Newcastle and Durham every 15 minutes- will now observe all stops between Chester-le-Street and Durham.

PVR:
Angel 21/21A- PVR 19: 6302-6303 & 6315-6331
X21- PVR 8: 6304-6307, 6332-6333 and the 2 new streetdecks when they arrive.

Posts have been made in the upcoming changes thread suggesting that reducing the Newcastle to Chester section in frequency would be a bad idea and re-numbering the shorts 21A would be pointless and confusing.

Replacing X21 with the 21 would not be an attractive option for those travelling towards Gateshead/Newcastle from as far as Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor, already a long enough journey without stopping at every lamppost in Birtley.

1C - Kibblesworth - Low Fell - Gateshead - Newcastle - Byker - Wallsend - Whitley Bay

Merge the existing 29 route with the 1, which would create a new direct link to Newcastle for passengers on the 29.

X23 - Operating every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday


Durham - Langley Moor - Meadowfield - Brancepeth - Willington - Crook - Howden Le Wear - North Bitchburn - Toronto - Bishop Auckland

Issues:

• This would never happen as it's going right through Arriva territory, but with the extension to West Auckland on the X21, who knows!
  
• Too many services running to Bishop
  

Positives

• It would also provide direct links to Durham from places like Howden Le Wear 
  
• Better better links to Bishop from Willington
  
• Better fares for passengers wanting to travel further north as they won't have to buy Arriva and GNE tickets separately
  

(29 Dec 2019, 11:40 am)Jimmi wrote Posts have been made in the upcoming changes thread suggesting that reducing the Newcastle to Chester section in frequency would be a bad idea and re-numbering the shorts 21A would be pointless and confusing.

Replacing X21 with the 21 would not be an attractive option for those travelling towards Gateshead/Newcastle from as far as Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor, already a long enough journey without stopping at every lamppost in Birtley.

It's not reducing the frequency as putting the 21 & 21A together would give 8 buses an hour- the current amount.

Durham service changes
Service X21- Current proposed route between Newcastle and West Auckland every 30 minutes. (PVR 8)
NEW Service X22: Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Chester-le-Street-Durham-A1 (M)-Cockerton-Darlington every 30 minutes (PVR 5)
Service X21 & X22 will link up between Newcastle & Durham every 15 minutes.
Service X22- Renumbered service X23. Times remain the same.
Allocation
Service X21\X22- 6301-6307, 6330-6333 and the new streetdecks when they arrive.

(30 Dec 2019, 6:27 pm)michaelb wrote Durham service changes
Service X21- Current proposed route between Newcastle and West Auckland every 30 minutes. (PVR 8)
NEW Service X22: Newcastle-Gateshead-Low Fell-Chester-le-Street-Durham-A1 (M)-Cockerton-Darlington every 30 minutes (PVR 5)
Service X21 & X22 will link up between Newcastle & Durham every 15 minutes.
Service X22- Renumbered service X23. Times remain the same.
Allocation
Service X21\X22- 6301-6307, 6330-6333 and the new streetdecks when they arrive.

Durham to Darlington is Arriva Territory, already carved up years ago


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(30 Dec 2019, 6:32 pm)cbma06 wrote Durham to Darlington is Arriva Territory, already carved up years ago


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So is Durham to West Auckland. And the issue is it still will be even after the X21 extends there.

The only people who will be using the X21 over the 6 are the people who are coming from the north, where GNE already serve. 
The others more than likely connect to a different Arriva service in Durham, so it would make no sense for them to switch to the X21 instead.

Until GNE start offering more services in Durham (ie, relaunching services they sold to Arriva), the X21 extension to West Auckland is likely to be a failure, or at least not as successful as they hope

This is the issue with each operator having their own territory, there is no competition

(30 Dec 2019, 6:47 pm)streetdeckfan wrote So is Durham to West Auckland. And the issue is it still will be even after the X21 extends there.

The only people who will be using the X21 over the 6 are the people who are coming from the north, where GNE already serve. 
The others more than likely connect to a different Arriva service in Durham, so it would make no sense for them to switch to the X21 instead.

Until GNE start offering more services in Durham (ie, relaunching services they sold to Arriva), the X21 extension to West Auckland is likely to be a failure, or at least not as successful as they hope

This is the issue with each operator having their own territory, there is no competition

What the government didn’t realise for deregulation that bigger operators would buy or run other companies to the ground and carve up there own areas and charge what there like as the passenger needs to get from A to B and have to use that bus service, this is probably why car ownership has grown over the years as if the passenger needs to get to there destination A to B then the passenger these days it’s more like from A to Z and have to go through the alphabet to get to Z .

You can blame the government/EU for no competition left

Regarding the Durham to Darlington corridor, the original 723 which were jointly operated by arriva/northern was carved up as Arriva took the Durham to Darlington section and northern took the Newcastle to Durham section , same as the 230 and 231 with arriva taking the 230 while northern took the 231, and between the X1 and X10, with arriva taking the X1 while northern took the X10, the list goes on.


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(30 Dec 2019, 7:07 pm)cbma06 wrote What the government didn’t realise for deregulation that bigger operators would buy or run other companies to the ground and carve up there own areas and charge what there like as the passenger needs to get from A to B and have to use that bus service, this is probably why car ownership has grown over the years as if the passenger needs to get to there destination A to B then the passenger these days it’s more like from A to Z and have to go through the alphabet to get to Z .

You can blame the government/EU for no competition left

Regarding the Durham to Darlington corridor, the original 723 which were jointly operated by arriva/northern  was carved up as Arriva took the Durham to Darlington section and northern took the Newcastle to Durham section , same as the 230 and 231 with arriva taking the 230 while northern took the 231, and between the X1 and X10, with arriva taking the X1 while northern took the X10, the list goes on.


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The thing is, with Arriva the way it is at the minute, GNE could probably run a lot of Arriva services into the ground if they started running services along side of them, but then they would risk all the 'happenings' of a few years back all over again

Like I said, it's no use GNE extending the X21 to West Auckland unless they have services in County Durham that people want to connect to.

If GNE want the X21 extension to succeed, they need service that go to Crook, Newton Aycliffe, Darlington, Shildon etc.
Even if they're not as frequent as the Arriva service, it would give people a reason to buy a GNE ticket over an Arriva ticket

(30 Dec 2019, 7:21 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The thing is, with Arriva the way it is at the minute, GNE could probably run a lot of Arriva services into the ground if they started running services along side of them, but then they would risk all the 'happenings' of a few years back all over again

Like I said, it's no use GNE extending the X21 to West Auckland unless they have services in County Durham that people want to connect to.

If GNE want the X21 extension to succeed, they need service that go to Crook, Newton Aycliffe, Darlington, Shildon etc.
Even if they're not as frequent as the Arriva service, it would give people a reason to buy a GNE ticket over an Arriva ticket

I just wish arriva would bugger off in East Durham and let GNE take the bus services on, Peterlee have always had the bad end of the stick from the days of United, even when there had the Peterlee depot open and still had buses off the road with bus services missing or only half running the routes.

Even the late Peter Huntley said if he became MD at GNE a lot sooner he would of halted the sale of Bishop and would of put a bid in to purchase Stagecoach Darlington if Arriva and Stagecoach didn’t agree, also asked availability for purchase of stagecoach Hartlepool which Stagecoach gived a blunt no to, also asked about South Shields and got a reply back saying not at this present time.


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(30 Dec 2019, 7:47 pm)cbma06 wrote I just wish arriva would bugger off in East Durham and let GNE take the bus services on, Peterlee have always had the bad end of the stick from the days of United, even when there had the Peterlee depot open and still had buses off the road with bus services missing or  only half running the routes.

Even the late Peter Huntley said if he became MD at GNE a lot sooner he would of halted the sale of Bishop and would of put a bid in to purchase Stagecoach Darlington if Arriva and Stagecoach didn’t agree, also asked availability for purchase of stagecoach Hartlepool which Stagecoach gived a blunt no to, also asked about South Shields and got a reply back saying not at this present time.


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With the extension to the X21, it could show that GNE are no longer scared (for lack of a better word) of intruding on Arriva's territory, it could be the start, dipping their toes in, if you will.

I do think that the threats of yesteryear may no longer apply, I doubt Arriva would have the funds to fight back if GNE started launching routes alongside theirs, plus I believe GNE has the funds to not only run the routes, but offer a better service overall.

*thinks back to the OK1*

(30 Dec 2019, 7:59 pm)S813 FVK wrote *thinks back to the OK1*

And that had exactly the same issue they're going to face with the extension to the X21.

Why would you use a GNE service if it's just one route?

If you're travelling anywhere that isn't on that route, you'll have to buy an Arriva ticket as well, and at that point, why not just use all Arriva services.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:01 pm)streetdeckfan wrote And that had exactly the same issue they're going to face with the extension to the X21.

Why would you use a GNE service if it's just one route?

If you're travelling anywhere that isn't on that route, you'll have to buy an Arriva ticket as well, and at that point, why not just use all Arriva services.

Is the extension only Monday to Saturday daytime only?

Wasn’t the OK1 put on for an anniversary or something.


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(30 Dec 2019, 8:03 pm)cbma06 wrote Is the extension only Monday to Saturday daytime only?

Wasn’t the OK1 put on for an anniversary or something.


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Yes, it is. It's running an hour later in the evening than it was, and I believe they're starting the northbound journeys quite a bit earlier. Although these temporary timetables are a nightmare to understand!

(30 Dec 2019, 8:01 pm)streetdeckfan wrote And that had exactly the same issue they're going to face with the extension to the X21.

Why would you use a GNE service if it's just one route?

If you're travelling anywhere that isn't on that route, you'll have to buy an Arriva ticket as well, and at that point, why not just use all Arriva services.

The OK1 was the service that went to the likes of Crook, Darlington, West Auckland etc that you said was needed a couple of posts back and it still only lasted 18 months.

Even when people had the reason to buy a GNE ticket with the connection to the X21 in Bishop Auckland, it wasn't enough to combat the dominance of Arriva.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm)S813 FVK wrote The OK1 was the service that went to the likes of Crook, Darlington, West Auckland etc that you said was needed a couple of posts back and it still only lasted 18 months.

Even when people had the reason to buy a GNE ticket with the connection to the X21 in Bishop Auckland, it wasn't enough to combat the dominance of Arriva.

I still look back in fondness to the poster displayed on the B10s when GNE took over Hexham from Arriva. It read something along the lines of "We apologise for the condition of these buses, they aren't up to Go North East standards"

(30 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm)S813 FVK wrote The OK1 was the service that went to the likes of Crook, Darlington, West Auckland etc that you said was needed a couple of posts back and it still only lasted 18 months.

Even when people had the reason to buy a GNE ticket with the connection to the X21 in Bishop Auckland, it wasn't enough to combat the dominance of Arriva.

Was originally Crook - Bishop - Darlington half hourly but did nowt on Crook to Bishop stretch so that got cut to being positioning journeys only like the X46 was but at the same time was extended to Middlesbrough once an hour direct via the A66.

Whilst it provided handy links to some areas it sadly wasn't enough to last unfortunately.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm)S813 FVK wrote The OK1 was the service that went to the likes of Crook, Darlington, West Auckland etc that you said was needed a couple of posts back and it still only lasted 18 months.

Even when people had the reason to buy a GNE ticket with the connection to the X21 in Bishop Auckland, it wasn't enough to combat the dominance of Arriva.

But the issue is it's one service, one route.

Arriva have services that run all over County Durham.

Until GNE have a network of routes around County Durham, perhaps not to the scale of Arriva, but covers the major towns and villages, the odd service will not be viable.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:10 pm)S813 FVK wrote The OK1 was the service that went to the likes of Crook, Darlington, West Auckland etc that you said was needed a couple of posts back and it still only lasted 18 months.

Even when people had the reason to buy a GNE ticket with the connection to the X21 in Bishop Auckland, it wasn't enough to combat the dominance of Arriva.

So does anyone know what’s happening with the arriva buses?, has DB changed there mind or selling divisions off or as a whole as there intention was the rail side of the company and run the bus side into the ground, last I heard that in the new year to float it on the stock market or something like that


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(30 Dec 2019, 8:21 pm)cbma06 wrote So does anyone know what’s happening with the arriva buses?, has DB changed there mind or selling divisions off or as a whole as there intention was the rail side of the company and run the bus side into the ground, last I heard that in the new year to float it on the stock market or something like that


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Yes I heard they were pulling all arriva bus operations

(30 Dec 2019, 8:21 pm)cbma06 wrote So does anyone know what’s happening with the arriva buses?, has DB changed there mind or selling divisions off or as a whole as there intention was the rail side of the company and run the bus side into the ground, last I heard that in the new year to float it on the stock market or something like that


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What I'm hoping for is some large investor to come in and buy the bus division, and give them the funding they need to improve the services.

In an ideal world, I'd love for Go Ahead to buy them and for ANE to be merged into GNE, but then we'd have no competition and be in the same situation we're in now.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:21 pm)cbma06 wrote So does anyone know what’s happening with the arriva buses?, has DB changed there mind or selling divisions off or as a whole as there intention was the rail side of the company and run the bus side into the ground, last I heard that in the new year to float it on the stock market or something like that


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Some info here

https://www.railjournal.com/financial/se...postponed/


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In order for GNE to succeed again in West Durham, I'd say at the bare minimum they'd need a competitor to the X46, X1, 5 and 6. That would give them coverage of Bishop Auckland, West Auckland, Crook, Willington, Newton Aycliffe, Shildon, and Darlington.
In my opinion that would give them enough reach to make travelling GNE in this area worthwhile, now that still wouldn't account for the passengers travelling further afield on Arriva services, but it would at least give them an offering through the key routes so passengers would have less of a reliance on Arriva

Be careful what you wish for..... I lived in north Newcastle in my younger days and used united/northumbria then arriva and i thought their service was bad. I now live in gateshead and have no choice but to use go north east and in my view the service is worse than arriva ever was.

TBF i think both stagecoach and arriva should dip their toe into GNE "teritory" and get GNE to pull their socks up. Its alright investing in new buses with wifi and charging point but they arn't much use to a passenger if the bus flies passed the bus stop, starts it journey in gateshead when your waiting at eldon square or not turning up at all.

(31 Dec 2019, 8:57 am)Rob44 wrote Be careful what you wish for..... I lived in north Newcastle in my younger days and used united/northumbria then arriva and i thought their service was bad. I now live in gateshead and have no choice but  to use go north east and in my view the service is worse than arriva ever was.

TBF i think both stagecoach and arriva should dip their toe into GNE "teritory" and get GNE to pull their socks up. Its alright investing in new buses with wifi and charging point but they arn't much use to a passenger if the bus flies passed the bus stop, starts it journey in gateshead when your waiting at eldon square or not turning up at all.

Arriva buses would get caught up in the same heavy traffic that delays your gne bus and having lived in deepest arriva territory for many years, I can assure you that their customer service is non-existent.

(30 Dec 2019, 8:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote In order for GNE to succeed again in West Durham, I'd say at the bare minimum they'd need a competitor to the X46, X1, 5 and 6. That would give them coverage of Bishop Auckland, West Auckland, Crook, Willington, Newton Aycliffe, Shildon, and Darlington.
In my opinion that would give them enough reach to make travelling GNE in this area worthwhile, now that still wouldn't account for the passengers travelling further afield on Arriva services, but it would at least give them an offering through the key routes so passengers would have less of a reliance on Arriva

(31 Dec 2019, 8:57 am)Rob44 wrote Be careful what you wish for..... I lived in north Newcastle in my younger days and used united/northumbria then arriva and i thought their service was bad. I now live in gateshead and have no choice but  to use go north east and in my view the service is worse than arriva ever was.

TBF i think both stagecoach and arriva should dip their toe into GNE "teritory" and get GNE to pull their socks up. Its alright investing in new buses with wifi and charging point but they arn't much use to a passenger if the bus flies passed the bus stop, starts it journey in gateshead when your waiting at eldon square or not turning up at all.

You'd think this would improve the services but in reality in the long term they'll be much worse. All that will end up happening is you'll have a price war, neither companies will make any money, thus no investment, eventually one of them will buy the other out to stop the price war, prices will increase big time to recoup the loss they've made, people stop using the bus, services cut, never ending cycle.

You can't just go dipping in other people's areas not to mention Arriva or GNE wont just sit there and let them take their area without a retalliation. I'm sure GNE would love an excuse to put buses along West Road one of the most profitable areas in the North East.

I used the 44 when it was Whitley bay - Hazlerigg back in the day. it was very rarely on time TBF but it always came in my experience.  They never said tough its now starting from Gosforth high street - get your ass there to get it!  Also in my experience when you put your hand out for an Arriva it stops.  My partner was waiting at the bus stop at on way to town for work and it drove straight passed..... luckily I was in so she rang me and I dropped her in town. Rang customer service and after 7 days they got back to her to say sorry we've check the CCTV and he did drive passed.... he was new to the route?  Maybe they should make the bus stop shelter and sign bigger?

Storx - what you say make a lot of sense, but take the 21 GNE for example. I've stood in the rain and seen a number of half full 21 zoom passed with NIS on trying probably to catch up on time. Then surprise surprise the next 21 is full so cant get on that either. 40 minutes for a 10 minute service.  Imagine if arriva put competition on the route ( not the poor X12) do you think GNE bus would zoom past money waiting at the bus stop if they thought that money would go to arriva? Of course not. And it give the passengers another choice of company to use and drives fares down.