All the talk coming from GNE seems to indicates that the X1 will still be receiving the new E400s. Wouldn't make sense to keep running the X1 on the oldest B9s in the fleet which would need repainting into X-Lines anyway.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(29 May 2020, 1:28 pm)6049 wrote All the talk coming from GNE seems to indicates that the X1 will still be receiving the new E400s. Wouldn't make sense to keep running the X1 on the oldest B9s in the fleet which would need repainting into X-Lines anyway.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Already been confirmed E400s for X1 with one going to Consett to make up PVR on X31. One of the older black Xline E400 transfer to washy as the spare

(29 May 2020, 1:28 pm)6049 wrote All the talk coming from GNE seems to indicates that the X1 will still be receiving the new E400s. Wouldn't make sense to keep running the X1 on the oldest B9s in the fleet which would need repainting into X-Lines anyway.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I still don't understand why they ordered low height E400s for the X1 when the route doesn't need them.
The new ones they have on the X30 are nice, but they feel so claustrophobic upstairs with the low ceiling compared to 6337 which is noticeably taller. I've lost count of the times I've hit my head when standing up or walking up the stairs

(29 May 2020, 1:41 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I still don't understand why they ordered low height E400s for the X1 when the route doesn't need them.
The new ones they have on the X30 are nice, but they feel so claustrophobic upstairs with the low ceiling compared to 6337 which is noticeably taller. I've lost count of the times I've hit my head when standing up or walking up the stairs

It kinda makes sense for fleet flexibility so if any issues with the X30s occured, a Washington one could be transferred and a spare full size decker used on yhe X1. However, as someone who is well over 6ft, and is used to bashing his head upstairs on a full height decker - I'd really prefer them to have not been the low height version. Looking forward to taking one for a spin when they arrive.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(29 May 2020, 3:19 pm)6049 wrote It kinda makes sense for fleet flexibility so if any issues with the X30s occured, a Washington one could be transferred and a spare full size decker used on yhe X1. However, as someone who is well over 6ft, and is used to bashing his head upstairs on a full height decker - I'd really prefer them to have not been the low height version. Looking forward to taking one for a spin when they arrive.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I've not checked, but pretty certain the ECW VR's were low height. Can't remember what they were like upstairs, but can remember the downstairs saloon being quite cramped.

As you say, ideal for fleet flexibility.

(29 May 2020, 3:19 pm)6049 wrote It kinda makes sense for fleet flexibility so if any issues with the X30s occured, a Washington one could be transferred and a spare full size decker used on yhe X1. However, as someone who is well over 6ft, and is used to bashing his head upstairs on a full height decker - I'd really prefer them to have not been the low height version. Looking forward to taking one for a spin when they arrive.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

They didn't even need to order them that low for the X30 though. Like I said 6337 is considerably taller (from the inside anyway) and it fits under the bridge in Dunston without issue

(29 May 2020, 5:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote They didn't even need to order them that low for the X30 though. Like I said 6337 is considerably taller (from the inside anyway) and it fits under the bridge in Dunston without issue

But in terms of future proofing the fleet it's better to be safe than sorry - also probably helps for resale. A low-height decker is just far more flexible. 

I'm sure if 6337 was ordered by GNE then it would have been low height - but it's not really practical to go and chop down a second hand bus just for a potential future use case.

(29 May 2020, 6:25 pm)mb134 wrote But in terms of future proofing the fleet it's better to be safe than sorry - also probably helps for resale. A low-height decker is just far more flexible. 

I'm sure if 6337 was ordered by GNE then it would have been low height - but it's not really practical to go and chop down a second hand bus just for a potential future use case.

But by that logic, why didn't they order low height StreetDecks?

It just doesn't make sense to me why they would make the passenger experience considerably worse for 'flexibilty'

(29 May 2020, 6:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But by that logic, why didn't they order low height StreetDecks?

It just doesn't make sense to me why they would make the passenger experience considerably worse for 'flexibilty'

I'm not sure it's that big of an issue. You're the only one I've seen complaining about it.

(29 May 2020, 6:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But by that logic, why didn't they order low height StreetDecks?

It just doesn't make sense to me why they would make the passenger experience considerably worse for 'flexibilty'

I'm sorry but I don't see any passenger experience issues with low height E400s - I'm over 6ft and I don't have a huge issue on any of Arriva's low height E400s. 

In terms of not ordering low height Streetdecks, there's likely a number of reasons. Are they a similar height to low-height E400s? Is there a substantial cost difference? Did it change order time frames?

(29 May 2020, 7:05 pm)mb134 wrote I'm sorry but I don't see any passenger experience issues with low height E400s - I'm over 6ft and I don't have a huge issue on any of Arriva's low height E400s. 

In terms of not ordering low height Streetdecks, there's likely a number of reasons. Are they a similar height to low-height E400s? Is there a substantial cost difference? Did it change order time frames?

Well, GNE traditionally since 2005 have ordered deckers from Wrightbus (either Volvo or integral chassis) and as technology has changed since then, it was perhaps a good way for GNE to sample an alternative in a low risk way for a particular reason (low bridge in Dunston) rather than buying a full batch.

I reckon that for most decker routes with the exception of the 21 and 309/310/311 (or any other stop-start type routes) that GNE will stick with ADL bodied deckers (either integral or Scania chassis).

The only full height examples Arriva have purchased was 7501-13. The rest since then have been low height.

Well working things out based on the original 30x StreetDecks not taking into account the additional demo:

- 13x X31/X45/X46
- 9x X47/X70/X71
- 4x X5/X15
- 4x remaining (to cover X21/21 [PVR 27] and either directly provide spares or release older StreetDecks as spares)

With the total StreetDecks available including new batch now standing at 47, the following could be achieved with perhaps the 21 reduced to every 10 mins between CLS and Newcastle and the X5/X15 getting vehicles from elsewhere. Spares would also have to be sourced from elsewhere too:

- 13x X31/X45/X46
- 9x X47/X70/X71
- 12x for X21
- That would then leave 13x available for the 21 and a PVR of 13 would be achievable with a reduction of frequency between CLS and Newcastle

In terms of allocations based on route demands:
- 6341-52 for X21 (x12) *long route*
- 6353-61 for X47/X70/X71 (x9) *hills*
- 6301-6307 for 21 (x7)
- 6315-6321 for 21 (x6)
- 6321-6333 for X31/X45/X46 (x13)

(30 May 2020, 11:46 am)L469 YVK wrote Well working things out based on the original 30x StreetDecks not taking into account the additional demo:

- 13x X31/X45/X46
- 9x X47/X70/X71
- 4x X5/X15
- 4x remaining (to cover X21/21 [PVR 27] and either directly provide spares or release older StreetDecks as spares)

With the total StreetDecks available including new batch now standing at 47, the following could be achieved with perhaps the 21 reduced to every 10 mins between CLS and Newcastle and the X5/X15 getting vehicles from elsewhere. Spares would also have to be sourced from elsewhere too:

- 13x X31/X45/X46
- 9x X47/X70/X71
- 12x for X21
- That would then leave 13x available for the 21 and a PVR of 13 would be achievable with a reduction of frequency between CLS and Newcastle

In terms of allocations based on route demands:
- 6341-52 for X21 (x12) *long route*
- 6353-61 for X47/X70/X71 (x9) *hills*
- 6315-6327 for X31/X45/X46 (x13)
- 6328-6333 for 21 (x6)
- 6301-6307 for 21 (x7)

Stupid idea, the 21 needs the 7.5 minute frequency, the buses can be full at rush hour as it is. Also the PVR of the X21 is 8 anyway.

On this new 925, why don't Nexus actually work with the operators instead of just doing bullish ideas, surely it would be better to have a 25a which runs the whole route via the QE, then have a full route via the current route with a short working to Wrekenton to keep it every 30 mins.

So:
25 - Newcastle  - Gateshead - Low Fell - Wrekenton (30 Mins) - Langley Park (Hourly)
25a - Newcastle - Gateshead - QE - Wrekenton - Langley Park (Hourly)

Just seems better uterlisation of buses.

(30 May 2020, 11:56 am)Storx wrote Stupid idea, the 21 needs the 7.5 minute frequency, the buses can be full at rush hour as it is. Also the PVR of the X21 is 8 anyway.

Travel patterns will likely change post Covid19 with more people working from home or working fewer days per week. With the X21 running every 15 minutes, a 10 minute frequency on the 21 would more than suffice.

Furthermore, the X21 PVR is indeed 12x vehicles.
- Durham boards = 4x (30 min freq 2 hour round trip)
- West Auckland boards = 8x (30 min freq 4 hour round trip)

(30 May 2020, 2:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote Travel patterns will likely change post Covid19 with more people working from home or working fewer days per week. With the X21 running every 15 minutes, a 10 minute frequency on the 21 would more than suffice.

Furthermore, the X21 PVR is indeed 12x vehicles.
- Durham boards = 4x (30 min freq 2 hour round trip)
- West Auckland boards = 8x (30 min freq 4 hour round trip)

If you read the changes from June, then its not...

X-lines X21 - Evening journeys reduced and the frequency between Newcastle and Durham will be revised to every 30 minutes., the whole X21 route is now running every 30 minutes - 240 minutes whole trip - PVR 8.


New timetable: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/image...st_Jun.pdf

(30 May 2020, 2:25 pm)Michael wrote If you read the changes from June, then its not...

X-lines X21 - Evening journeys reduced and the frequency between Newcastle and Durham will be revised to every 30 minutes., the whole X21 route is now running every 30 minutes - 240 minutes whole trip - PVR 8.


New timetable: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/image...st_Jun.pdf

That's assuming it won't go back to every 15 minutes once demand rises again, much like they're doing with the likes of the 56 and 60.

(30 May 2020, 2:28 pm)S813 FVK wrote That's assuming it won't go back to every 15 minutes once demand rises again, much like they're doing with the likes of the 56 and 60.

True but atm, it doesn't have "Frequency reduced until demand returns" next to the changes, like the 56 and 60 does, so i think that means, the whole service will stay every 30 minutes for the foreseeable future.

(30 May 2020, 2:31 pm)Michael wrote True but atm, it doesn't have "Frequency reduced until demand returns" next to the changes, like the 56 and 60 does, so i think that means, the whole service will stay every 30 minutes for the foreseeable future.

Which can also be inferred from the fact that the extra Streetdecks for the X21 have been diverted elsewhere. It seems likely to assume that 6303 may well be repainted and rebranded to make up the 8th bus in the PVR. Though this is probably not a necessity atm, and plans may change in the future so for the time-being I imagine one of the corporate branded 6301-3 will permanently be allocated.

(30 May 2020, 3:23 pm)peter wrote Which can also be inferred from the fact that the extra Streetdecks for the X21 have been diverted elsewhere. It seems likely to assume that 6303 may well be repainted and rebranded to make up the 8th bus in the PVR. Though this is probably not a necessity atm, and plans may change in the future so for the time-being I imagine one of the corporate branded 6301-3 will permanently be allocated.

Would it not be more likely that one of the corporate StreetDecks would go to Consett as a spare than be repainted again into Xlines then one of the new vehicles, which is likely to already painted in the correct colours, goes on to the X21 as planned?

(30 May 2020, 3:33 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Would it not be more likely that one of the corporate StreetDecks would go to Consett as a spare than be repainted again into Xlines then one of the new vehicles, which is likely to already painted in the correct colours, goes on to the X21 as planned?

I believe it was said 9 of the new Streetdecks would be going to Oxford. If I remember correctly the original order was for 31 which has now been reduced to 22. If the values I have down are correct, the current PVRs of the X31/X45/X46 and X47/X70/X71 are 13 and 9 respectively = 22. So if those values are right, that would mean there are no spare Streetdecks available to be allocated to the X21 instead (assuming all of those services are still going X-lines and that the X5/15 are the only upgrades being postponed).

(30 May 2020, 3:46 pm)peter wrote I believe it was said 9 of the new Streetdecks would be going to Oxford. If I remember correctly the original order was for 31 which has now been reduced to 22. If the values I have down are correct, the current PVRs of the X31/X45/X46 and X47/X70/X71 are 13 and 9 respectively = 22, so if those values are right that would mean there are no spare Streetdecks available to be allocated to the X21 instead.

Was 46, but now 9 to go elsewhere so we're receiving 37 + the 9 electrics - all around August.


Refurbishments too - although Martjin didn't confirm what was getting refurbished

(30 May 2020, 3:46 pm)peter wrote I believe it was said 9 of the new Streetdecks would be going to Oxford. If I remember correctly the original order was for 31 which has now been reduced to 22. If the values I have down are correct the current PVRs of the X31/45/56 and X47/70/71 are 13 and 9 respectively = 22, so if those values are right that would mean there are no spare Streetdecks available to be allocated to the X21 instead.

Actually, I don't think it was specified that all of those 9 would be StreetDecks, he just said the double decker order was reduced by 9. So unless it's been confirmed additionally that they're all StreetDecks then it's still speculation. And it was only mentioned that one would be going to Oxford for a trial, he said 'within the Go Ahead group'

I was thinking purely in terms of fuel economy and reliability though, am I right in thinking that the X21 would benefit from the newer vehicles over the likes of the X45/X46 with it running basically 10 miles of dual carriageway (A1 and A167).
Then again, that assumes that the newer vehicles are actually more efficient when not running start/stop

(30 May 2020, 2:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote Travel patterns will likely change post Covid19 with more people working from home or working fewer days per week. With the X21 running every 15 minutes, a 10 minute frequency on the 21 would more than suffice.

Furthermore, the X21 PVR is indeed 12x vehicles.
- Durham boards = 4x (30 min freq 2 hour round trip)
- West Auckland boards = 8x (30 min freq 4 hour round trip)

They've cut the 2 boards from the X21 rather than the 21 which makes sense as Michael said. It makes sense as they carried fresh air most the time anyway. The core of the 21 is between Newcastle / Gateshead and Birtley, it's very quiet after there so having the X21 every 15 minutes skipping it all didn't make much sense really.

(28 May 2020, 7:27 pm)JP6004 wrote MG stated that 9 of the new Streetdecks will be redeployed within Go Ahead. So only 37 DD arriving this year. First one going to Oxford in next few days.

Rest of DD due August with Yutongs in September

(30 May 2020, 3:56 pm)Michael wrote Was 46, but now 9 to go elsewhere so we're receiving 37 + the 9 electrics - all around August.


Refurbishments too - although Martjin didn't confirm what was getting refurbished

(30 May 2020, 4:00 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Actually, I don't think it was specified that all of those 9 would be StreetDecks, he just said the double decker order was reduced by 9. So unless it's been confirmed additionally that they're all StreetDecks then it's still speculation. And it was only mentioned that one would be going to Oxford for a trial, he said 'within the Go Ahead group'

I was thinking purely in terms of fuel economy and reliability though, am I right in thinking that the X21 would benefit from the newer vehicles over the likes of the X45/X46 with it running basically 10 miles of dual carriageway (A1 and A167).
Then again, that assumes that the newer vehicles are actually more efficient when not running start/stop

I was going off of this post the other day which said 9 Streetdecks would be redeployed, I haven't watched the video myself. It also states that the double decker order would be reduced to 37 - but this values also includes the E400MMCs for the X1 presumably. In any case, I've looked back and the original order was 28 Streetdecks for the X5/15/31/45/46/47/70/71, 2 for the X21 and 1 6 cylinder 7.7l Float/Trial vehicle. 

To me this suggests that GNE will be getting 22 Streetdecks, for the X31/45/46/47/70/71, and 15 MMC's (14 for the X1 and 1 for the X30) as I can't see 9 of the MMCs for the X1 going elsewhere. Presumably the 1 bus going to Oxford on a trial will be the 6 cylinder Streetdeck, sorry for my misinterpretation that they would all be going to Oxford, but you get the point. At this point when the service is 1 double deck vehicle short of the PVR, I'd find it strange if they were to allocate 1 new vehicle to the X21, meaning they'd be 1 short for the Consett express services. Unless they made up the entire allocation of the X21 with new vehicles and transferred those currently on the X21 over and have a mixed allocation at Consett, which seems like a lot of work, but there again stranger things have happened.

(30 May 2020, 4:18 pm)peter wrote I was going off of this post the other day which said 9 Streetdecks would be redeployed, I haven't watched the video myself. It also states that the double decker order would be reduced to 37 - but this values also includes the E400MMCs for the X1 presumably. In any case, I've looked back and the original order was 28 Streetdecks for the X5/15/31/45/46/47/70/71, 2 for the X21 and 1 6 cylinder 7.7l Float/Trial vehicle. 

To me this suggests that GNE will be getting 22 Streetdecks, for the X31/45/46/47/70/71, and 15 MMC's (14 for the X1 and 1 for the X30) as I can't see 9 of the MMCs for the X1 going elsewhere. Presumably the 1 bus going to Oxford on a trial will be the 6 cylinder Streetdeck, sorry for my misinterpretation that they would all be going to Oxford, but you get the point. At this point when the service is 1 double deck vehicle short of the PVR, I'd find it strange if they were to allocate 1 new vehicle to the X21, meaning they'd be 1 short for the Consett express services. Unless they made up the entire allocation of the X21 with new vehicles and transferred those currently on the X21 over and have a mixed allocation at Consett, which seems like a lot of work, but there again stranger things have happened.

He just mentioned 9 Streetdecks were heading elsewhere with still 37 arriving, the E400's still should be arriving.

(30 May 2020, 4:35 pm)Michael wrote He just mentioned 9 Streetdecks were heading elsewhere with still 37 arriving, the E400's still should be arriving - although, i could be wrong, and you could be right.

Maybe Dan can clarify what’s still arriving and what not arriving, too much speculation on this thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(30 May 2020, 2:25 pm)Michael wrote If you read the changes from June, then its not...

X-lines X21 - Evening journeys reduced and the frequency between Newcastle and Durham will be revised to every 30 minutes., the whole X21 route is now running every 30 minutes - 240 minutes whole trip - PVR 8.


New timetable: https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/image...st_Jun.pdf

That will only be temporary. Perpaps if the X21 steps back up again, it may go to a 20 minute Newcastle - Durham frequency (PVR 10) with buses continuing to West Auckland on a 20/40 split. We'll probably have more of an idea by the end of the year / early next year what the longer term demand could look like.

(30 May 2020, 4:35 pm)Michael wrote He just mentioned 9 Streetdecks were heading elsewhere with still 37 arriving, the E400's still should be arriving.

But then where has this other order of Streetdecks come from? Cause originally there were only 31 for the Consett expresses, X21 and the 6-cylinder trial. Unless there was another order that I've missed out completely, we can't lose 9 from 31 and end up with 37! I'm under the impression that the "37" value refers to 37 double decks rather than 37 Streetdecks still due to arrive.

(30 May 2020, 4:39 pm)cbma06 wrote Maybe Dan can clarify what’s still arriving and what not arriving, too much speculation on this thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is there anything wrong with speculation tho? If it's initiating some debate and conversation then I don't see a problem with people discussing what they think may happen with regards to future orders, transfers etc. I thought the whole point of the new forum set-up was to encourage more posting.

(30 May 2020, 4:42 pm)L469 YVK wrote That will only be temporary. Perpaps if the X21 steps back up again, it may go to a 20 minute Newcastle - Durham frequency (PVR 10) with buses continuing to West Auckland on a 20/40 split. We'll probably have more of an idea by the end of the year / early next year what the longer term demand could look like.

Doesn't say that on the upcoming changes, so i would take it, as a permanent change.. the 56 and 60 both mention a decrease but only until demand returns, where as the X21 just mentions it'll be going half hourly and evening journey's are decreased.

(30 May 2020, 4:45 pm)peter wrote But then where has this other order of Streetdecks come from? Cause originally there were only 31 for the Consett expresses, X21 and the 6-cylinder trial. Unless there was another order that I've missed out completely, we can't lose 9 from 31 and end up with 37! I'm under the impression that the "37" value refers to 37 double decks rather than 37 Streetdecks still due to arrive.


Is there anything wrong with speculation tho? If it's initiating some debate and conversation then I don't see a problem with people discussing what they think may happen with regards to future orders, transfers etc. I thought the whole point of the new forum set-up was to encourage more posting.

There’s no point putting messages on which are false or misleading which are pointless, maybe should of been put on the speculation thread or maybe a fact thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk