If the X72 struggles to maintain reliability serving Cragside Gardens, could a 97A not be introduced to replace that section of route?

(29 Aug 2021, 2:14 am)L469 YVK wrote If the X72 struggles to maintain reliability serving Cragside Gardens, could a 97A not be introduced to replace that section of route?

Why would it struggle to maintain reliability?


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Does anyone remember if the 161 or 164 were heavally used between seaburn & sunderland. If they were then maybe extend a service to seaburn like the 33 or 38.

(29 Aug 2021, 4:15 am)Dan wrote Why would it struggle to maintain reliability?


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Not saying it will, but it just fits the profile to be a troublesome route for timekeeping. Only 4 mins layover in Stanley + obviously having to make 2x right turns in Lobley Hill ex Stanley towards Newcastle.

I might be wrong though.

(29 Aug 2021, 9:36 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Does anyone remember if the 161 or 164 were heavally used between seaburn & sunderland. If they were then maybe extend a service to seaburn like the 33 or 38.

I only ever used the 164 on that section, during the summer months.
Always popular (and useful), even if it was a bit of an operating anomoly.
Can't comment on the 161 on that portion though.

I reckon extending the 33 or 38 would require an extra vehicle to the PVR (with associated costs). Commercially, I don't know if it would be worth it.

(29 Aug 2021, 1:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote I only ever used the 164 on that section, during the summer months.
Always popular (and useful), even if it was a bit of an operating anomoly.
Can't comment on the 161 on that portion though.

I reckon extending the 33 or 38 would require an extra vehicle to the PVR (with associated costs). Commercially, I don't know if it would be worth it.

I think it would only be success if ran out of Park Lane, plenty of people asking for buses to the sea side when we drop them off then. Bit of a pain having to direct them a 10 minute walk to Fawcett Street to get the Economics.

(29 Aug 2021, 4:30 pm)deanmachine wrote I think it would only be success if ran out of Park Lane, plenty of people asking for buses to the sea side when we drop them off then. Bit of a pain having to direct them a 10 minute walk to Fawcett Street to get the Economics.

Idk how people feel about this, but I wish 33/2/2A/39/39A/33A all went to Park Lane for most if not all. it is much easier to transfer buses. But I think if it would be any buses chances it would probs be the 60 with the seaside theme etc.

49/a/c & 12/A / 50 should be branded. 

50 - Use the some of the 15' Plate Streetlites
12/A Use Some Streetlites
49 Just brand the 66' plates that had the boring name of the "THE 49" to a better name.

(29 Aug 2021, 9:36 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Does anyone remember if the 161 or 164 were heavally used between seaburn & sunderland. If they were then maybe extend a service to seaburn like the 33 or 38.

In fairness the Coast is Stagecoach territory and Stagecoach don't usually react too well when buses end up going along their corridor. I know there's the new partnerships coming in to stop stuff like that but going against the E's is dodgy territory when it's their strongest route from South Shields.

It's more of a problem of Stagecoach refusing to pay the fees to serve Park Lane more than anything imo.

(29 Aug 2021, 8:15 pm)Storx wrote In fairness the Coast is Stagecoach territory and Stagecoach don't usually react too well when buses end up going along their corridor. I know there's the new partnerships coming in to stop stuff like that but going against the E's is dodgy territory when it's their strongest route from South Shields.

It's more of a problem of Stagecoach refusing to pay the fees to serve Park Lane more than anything imo.

I must say I do wish some SC services came to Park lane, I also wish the GNE services which don't (2/A - 39/A - 33/A and more) which don't go to Park lane do as it provides a lot more connections. Tbh I would put me off getting the 2 from Washington to Sunderland as it doesn't go into Park Lane or the other way, same for 39.

It only takes 94 seconds to walk from vine place/holmeside to park lane, surely a nice short walk and the exercise is worth it

(29 Aug 2021, 9:30 pm)N1cholas wrote It only takes 94 seconds to walk from vine place/holmeside to park lane, surely a nice short walk and the exercise is worth it

I mean I think it is longer than that. But it is also better especially when it is raining. (not that parklane is the best stop for when it rains but it does have the coach thing)

(29 Aug 2021, 9:30 pm)N1cholas wrote It only takes 94 seconds to walk from vine place/holmeside to park lane, surely a nice short walk and the exercise is worth it

Do punters want to do that?
They're already on to potentially their second bus by the time they reach Park Lane and the idea of changing to another (94 seconds or not) to head to Seaburn, may not be the most appealing. Particularly if its with another operator. 
Then there's the same for the return leg...

(29 Aug 2021, 10:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote Do punters want to do that?
They're already on to potentially their second bus by the time they reach Park Lane and the idea of changing to another (94 seconds or not) to head to Seaburn, may not be the most appealing. Particularly if its with another operator. 
Then there's the same for the return leg...

If 700/701/702 ran up there it might improve things, but it probably wouldn't get off the ground.

(29 Aug 2021, 10:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote Do punters want to do that?
They're already on to potentially their second bus by the time they reach Park Lane and the idea of changing to another (94 seconds or not) to head to Seaburn, may not be the most appealing. Particularly if its with another operator. 
Then there's the same for the return leg...

GNE seem to think it ok making passengers alight at market street and have to walk to haymarket to connect to service heading north, east or west!

(30 Aug 2021, 7:28 am)Rob44 wrote GNE seem to think it ok making passengers alight at market street and have to walk to haymarket to connect to service heading north, east or west!

Why do you blame Go North East in this scenario?

Have you ever considered that it may not have been completely their decision, and that the managers of the bus stations are responsible for dictating the number of buses that can serve them?

Park Lane would be unsuitable for departures both south and west in the city, which is why it’s only served by buses going west (ie 2 to Washington, 39 to Pennywell, etc). Arguably there’s scope to better use Stand H (only served by the 700), serve Stand R (only served by the temporary SNS service) but there’s still no where near enough room for all of Stagecoach’s routes and the absent Go North East ones.

Eldon Square in Newcastle is notoriously difficult to serve given how small it is. The stand allocation is being completely revised to provide a better flow with departures being coordinated to avoid stand clashes, but ultimately some services have also had to vacate the station too. The city, quite desperately, needs better bus station facilities.


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(30 Aug 2021, 8:09 am)Dan wrote Why do you blame Go North East in this scenario?

Have you ever considered that it may not have been completely their decision, and that the managers of the bus stations are responsible for dictating the number of buses that can serve them?

Park Lane would be unsuitable for departures both south and west in the city, which is why it’s only served by buses going west (ie 2 to Washington, 39 to Pennywell, etc). Arguably there’s scope to better use Stand H (only served by the 700), serve Stand R (only served by the temporary SNS service) but there’s still no where near enough room for all of Stagecoach’s routes and the absent Go North East ones.

Eldon Square in Newcastle is notoriously difficult to serve given how small it is. The stand allocation is being completely revised to provide a better flow with departures being coordinated to avoid stand clashes, but ultimately some services have also had to vacate the station too. The city, quite desperately, needs better bus station facilities.


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Ok who should be blamed? Nexus?  I understand your never going to make everyone happy but I can just speak from my point of view. At the moment i get the 28 to eldon square, walk around the corner and catch the 44 toDinnington ( if it turns up... talking about you arriva). Now due to GNE, or nexus, or newcastle council i will be kicked off at market street and have to find my way to the Haymarket from there.  Can you tell me will this encourage punters like me to continue to use public transport or should i just use my car either driving or a lift, do the journey in under half the time and at a lower cost?

(30 Aug 2021, 8:19 am)Rob44 wrote Ok who should be blamed? Nexus?  I understand your never going to make everyone happy but I can just speak from my point of view. At the moment i get the 28 to eldon square, walk around the corner and catch the 44 toDinnington ( if it turns up... talking about you arriva). Now due to GNE, or nexus, or newcastle council i will be kicked off at market street and have to find my way to the Haymarket from there.  Can you tell me will this encourage punters like me to continue to use public transport or should i just use my car either driving or a lift, do the journey in under half the time and at a lower cost?

And then you have people who are like "its just a 8 min walk" but that could be the difference from making your bus and not having to stand around for 50 mins (if you come on the hourly chester-le-street bus, its not that bad if you have a service which goes every 10-20 mins. Newcaslte needs a New massive bus station for Haymarket & Eldon Square and all other GNE services which stop at Market Street and Stagecoach A mass transit station near a metro station, like 30 platforms it would 100% improve public transport, tbh I now get the metro from Sunderland instead of geting the 56, as I need to get to Eldon Square. But also Park Lane is a awful bus station, it isn't that busy but it also is very open which isn't really what i want in a bus station. They don't necessarily need a new station, but they will soon. I also think that all GNE services should be in parklane and there is space.

(30 Aug 2021, 8:32 am)Keeiajs wrote And then you have people who are like "its just a 8 min walk" but that could be the difference from making your bus and not having to stand around for 50 mins (if you come on the hourly chester-le-street bus, its not that bad if you have a service which goes every 10-20 mins. Newcaslte needs a New massive bus station for Haymarket & Eldon Square and all other GNE services which stop at Market Street and Stagecoach A mass transit station near a metro station, like 30 platforms it would 100% improve public transport, tbh I now get the metro from Sunderland instead of geting the 56, as I need to get to Eldon Square. But also Park Lane is a awful bus station, it isn't that busy but it also is very open which isn't really what i want in a bus station. They don't necessarily need a new station, but they will soon. I also think that all GNE services should be in parklane and there is space.

Completely agree with the above. I actually visited Park lane for the fist time in 20 years a few weeks ago. andf it was very quite  ( tuesday morning at 10am). Its still better then the old on though!

(30 Aug 2021, 8:41 am)Rob44 wrote Completely agree with the above. I actually visited Park lane for the fist time in 20 years a few weeks ago. andf it was very quite  ( tuesday morning at 10am). Its still better then the old on though!

I go quite oftern 9am/11am/3pm/1pm/5pm and it is always not quiet but there is always atleast 3 stands free. So there is room for I would say all of GNE's services it would also make it easier to connect, for that instance I don't get the 39 to Doxford / 2 to Silkworth as I hate getting off a homeside, however when I walk to Park lane there is about 3 stands, (over maybe about 5 times pre covid)

Park lane interchange is just a waste of space, to far away from the shops in the city centre, the location was on favoured because of the metro connection and civic centre (which will be no more), should of built it on the other location which housing the old Debenhams store/multi storey car park, when passengers are carrying all there heavy shopping bags trailing up park lane to get to the bus station, stagecoach decided to pull out because of the fees for each bus entering the interchange and also the added minutes to the timetables to serve the interchange. Should knock down the shops on the north side of holmside to blandford street and use this area for a bus station. GNE should bring back the X6 serving Burdon road (museum), Holmside then interchange and vice versa, many passengers have missed getting off in the central area of town to do shopping when gne took that section off when the X6 was split from the x20.

About having a proper big bus station through Newcastle will not work as it will take a lot of prime real estate and won’t be worth the cost, and passengers prefer to use a bus service to get door to door service right on the main road than having to walk great distances to get to the bus station to get home, not everyone are a spring chicken


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(30 Aug 2021, 8:51 am)Keeiajs wrote I go quite oftern 9am/11am/3pm/1pm/5pm and it is always not quiet but there is always atleast 3 stands free. So there is room for I would say all of GNE's services it would also make it easier to connect, for that instance I don't get the 39 to Doxford / 2 to Silkworth as I hate getting off a homeside, however when I walk to Park lane there is about 3 stands, (over maybe about 5 times pre covid)

For every bus that’s on a timetable schedule enters park lane interchange there’s a fee and it’s not cheap, I’m surprised GNE hasn’t pulled more services out of interchange, it’s more than a eyesore, I’m surprised it got approved, more glass panels was added later on, but still a wind tunnel and cold, council should of spent more money and done a similar design as Middlesbrough where the waiting area was closed in as Sunderland is on the coast and not miles inland.


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(30 Aug 2021, 8:57 am)cbma06 wrote Park lane interchange is just a waste of space, to far away from the shops in the city centre, the location was on favoured because of the metro connection and civic centre (which will be no more), should of built it on the other location which housing the old Debenhams store/multi storey car park, when passengers are carrying all there heavy shopping bags trailing up park lane to get to the bus station, stagecoach decided to pull out because of the fees for each bus entering the interchange and also the added minutes to the timetables to serve the interchange. Should knock down the shops on the north side of holmside to blandford street and use this area for a bus station. GNE should bring back the X6 serving Burdon road (museum), Holmside then interchange and vice versa, many passengers have missed getting off in the central area of town to do shopping when gne took that section off when the X6 was split from the x20.

About having a proper big bus station through Newcastle will not work as it will take a lot of prime real estate and won’t be worth the cost, and passengers prefer to use a bus service to get door to door service right on the main road than having to walk great distances to get to the bus station to get home, not everyone are a spring chicken 


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For every bus that’s on a timetable schedule enters park lane interchange there’s a fee and it’s not cheap, I’m surprised GNE hasn’t pulled more services out of interchange, it’s more than a eyesore, I’m surprised it got approved, more glass panels was added later on, but still a wind tunnel and cold, council should of spent more money and done a similar design as Middlesbrough where the waiting area was closed in as Sunderland is on the coast and not miles inland.


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No doubt Park lane is a awfully designed bus station. It needs to be changed/knocked down. And Debenhams have nove shut, know that down with the carpark make a nicer bus station similar to South Sheilds where all services can go. Simplier & Nicer as Park Lane as you say is bloody freezing.

(30 Aug 2021, 9:30 am)Keeiajs wrote No doubt Park lane is a awfully designed bus station. It needs to be changed/knocked down. And Debenhams have nove shut, know that down with the carpark make a nicer bus station similar to South Sheilds where all services can go. Simplier & Nicer as Park Lane as you say is bloody freezing.

Sunderland is very good example of where you are disenestivised for even thinking of using a bus if you want to visit the city centre. If you park at the multi story you walk undercover a few meters and you are in the centre. Get the bus and the main facility is 1/4 of a mile away, uncoverd to the elements and seagull excrement.

Car users can travel where and when they want, buses by there very nature have a timetable, so aren't  as flexible. So make car users walk further when accessing these popular facilities. No doubt the usual motor opinion formers would say this is a "war on motorists" though

I think GNE would be better served showing parts of Sunderland on its network map they don't serve with the Stagecoach routes with an add for the Day Rover or Smartzone, at least that way they may get some additional revenue if they buy it from GNE! That would cost nothing to do

Could Extending the 310 to Whitley Bay via Tynemouth work I.e. the old 300.
Would a 29A to Birtley and Barley Mow be of use.
Also to add to the bus station debate, with stand C at Central Station only being used by the 91 after the 5th Sept why not send buses there instead of market street.

I have to agree that buses not using the same terminus is annoying. It’s not about the walk it’s about the fact it takes extra time and if connections are tight it’s the difference between making or missing your journey and adding god knows how long to travel, not so bad when it’s a leisure trip as such, but for commuting far from ideal. Park Lane is badly designed and why you certainly used to (don’t know if still happens, never been to PL in 18 months!) have people using Stand K as cross over to get to Stands N-T and potentially nearly getting wiped out by a bus in the process. However it does show that you can’t please everyone, because it actually annoyed me when buses don’t get straight to the interchange, the 61 now and the X6 used to, that loop of the city centre adds what I see as unnecessary time if I’m trying to make another connection to bus/metro.

I’ll touch a little bit on bus vs car debate, a group of friends 4 of us were travelling to South Shields on a Sunday, 2 from Peterlee, 2 from Seaham. So it was two buses, an Arriva 22 or the GNE 60 to Sunderland and then we all had to walk across Fawcett Street for the Stagecoach E1. All this involved trying to coordinate timings, walk across Sunderland, buy two day (or return) tickets - day rovers and network one not valid for us coming from County Durham. We also misssed an E1 because it departed four minutes after the 60 arrived in. The Arriva 22 also finishes about 6/7 on a Sunday too so timings were tight for the return leg. To be honest, whole thing was faff. Next trip we decided to get pay my mates dad to drop off and pick up later. Gave him a fiver each, cheaper and more convenient. No worries about missing last buses for a Sunday evening, no buying two day tickets because cross operator travel tickets are practically non existing, no walking between bus connections and then waiting around because you’ve just missed a departure. I suppose if GNE did offer a service from Park Lane along the coast though Roker, Seaburn, Whitburn, South Shields, perhaps that would make it more appealing, use a GNE ticket (these days the 55 goes to Peterlee on Sundays, it didn’t at the time) and connecting in the same place you alight works so much better.

(30 Aug 2021, 1:38 pm)Drifter60 wrote I have to agree that buses not using the same terminus is annoying. It’s not about the walk it’s about the fact it takes extra time and if connections are tight it’s the difference between making or missing your journey and adding god knows how long to travel, not so bad when it’s a leisure trip as such, but for commuting far from ideal. Park Lane is badly designed and why you certainly used to (don’t know if still happens, never been to PL in 18 months!) have people using Stand K as cross over to get to Stands N-T and potentially nearly getting wiped out by a bus in the process. However it does show that you can’t please everyone, because it actually annoyed me when buses don’t get straight to the interchange, the 61 now and the X6 used to, that loop of the city centre adds what I see as unnecessary time if I’m trying to make another connection to bus/metro.

I’ll touch a little bit on bus vs car debate, a group of friends 4 of us were travelling to South Shields on a Sunday, 2 from Peterlee, 2 from Seaham. So it was two buses, an Arriva 22 or the GNE 60 to Sunderland and then we all had to walk across Fawcett Street for the Stagecoach E1. All this involved trying to coordinate timings, walk across Sunderland, buy two day (or return) tickets - day rovers and network one not valid for us coming from County Durham. We also misssed an E1 because it departed four minutes after the 60 arrived in. The Arriva 22 also finishes about 6/7 on a Sunday too so timings were tight for the return leg. To be honest, whole thing was faff. Next trip we decided to get pay my mates dad to drop off and pick up later. Gave him a fiver each, cheaper and more convenient. No worries about missing last buses for a Sunday evening, no buying two day tickets because cross operator travel tickets are practically non existing, no walking between bus connections and then waiting around because you’ve just missed a departure. I suppose if GNE did offer a service from Park Lane along the coast though Roker, Seaburn, Whitburn, South Shields, perhaps that would make it more appealing, use a GNE ticket (these days the 55 goes to Peterlee on Sundays, it didn’t at the time) and connecting in the same place you alight works so much better.

They could I suppose offer a extension to South Shields and advertise the low fares. Could possibly use the Drifter so like every 24 mins it extends to South Sheilds that way. They could trial it especially between May-Sept.

(30 Aug 2021, 2:34 pm)Keeiajs wrote They could I suppose offer a extension to South Shields and advertise the low fares. Could possibly use the Drifter so like every 24 mins it extends to South Sheilds that way. They could trial it especially between May-Sept.

Aside from Drifter60's example (which is just one case, on one day), is there really much of a demand for a through service from Parkside and Seaham through to Seaburn and South Shields? I don't understand the growing obsession with this proposed route.

Leisure facilities at Seaburn are growing (Stack, pubs, restaurants, etc), and whilst you could say a proactive operator would be capitalising on this, I really don't think extending the 60 is the right option. There needs to be more than just leisure to warrant this kind of thing (i.e. with the extension of the 21 to Brandon, there's leisure at Arnison Centre, education at New College, and work).

No doubt I'll be shot down for saying this, but there can't be a bus provided for every eventuality. With the impending BSIP, it'd be more likely to expect an enhancement to Network One ticketing and better integration of existing services.

(30 Aug 2021, 2:56 pm)Dan wrote Aside from Drifter60's example (which is just one case, on one day), is there really much of a demand for a through service from Parkside and Seaham through to Seaburn and South Shields? I don't understand the growing obsession with this proposed route.

Leisure facilities at Seaburn are growing (Stack, pubs, restaurants, etc), and whilst you could say a proactive operator would be capitalising on this, I really don't think extending the 60 is the right option. There needs to be more than just leisure to warrant this kind of thing (i.e. with the extension of the 21 to Brandon, there's leisure at Arnison Centre, education at New College, and work).

No doubt I'll be shot down for saying this, but there can't be a bus provided for every eventuality. With the impending BSIP, it'd be more likely to expect an enhancement to Network One ticketing and better integration of existing services.

I miss the days of having a direct bus service from Sunderland to Winlaton. Winlaton has a lot to offer too: a Co-op, a Spar, pubs, a chemist, an independent baker and butcher shop and a Turkish Barbers. Plenty on offer for folks travelling from Sunderland and Washington. The 638 was a wonderful bus service, I blame GNE for its demise.

(30 Aug 2021, 2:56 pm)Dan wrote Aside from Drifter60's example (which is just one case, on one day), is there really much of a demand for a through service from Parkside and Seaham through to Seaburn and South Shields? I don't understand the growing obsession with this proposed route.

Leisure facilities at Seaburn are growing (Stack, pubs, restaurants, etc), and whilst you could say a proactive operator would be capitalising on this, I really don't think extending the 60 is the right option. There needs to be more than just leisure to warrant this kind of thing (i.e. with the extension of the 21 to Brandon, there's leisure at Arnison Centre, education at New College, and work).

No doubt I'll be shot down for saying this, but there can't be a bus provided for every eventuality. With the impending BSIP, it'd be more likely to expect an enhancement to Network One ticketing and better integration of existing services.

I mean, Idk whether there is much there is some. However I think it would be more to take on the E's On Sunderland to South Sheilds as GNE do have cheaper fares especially for under 18's than SC or Arriva

Also BSIP?

(30 Aug 2021, 3:55 pm)Keeiajs wrote I mean, Idk whether there is much there is some. However I think it would be more to take on the E's On Sunderland to South Sheilds as GNE do have cheaper fares especially for under 18's than SC or Arriva

Also BSIP?

Bus Service Improvement Plan