There are numerous ways CONC reimbursements are calculated to ensure a bus operator is "no better or worse off", most of them pretty complex and non of them I am aware only look at average single fares as there has to be an assumption that some of those passholder would have bought day or weekly tickets if it wasn't for the free pass.

There is a nice 120 page guide on the DfT website for those wanting knowledge of the matter and the actual guidance for calculations

(18 Nov 2021, 9:58 pm)DeltaMan wrote There are numerous ways CONC reimbursements are calculated to ensure a bus operator is "no better or worse off", most of them pretty complex and non of them I am aware only look at average single fares as there has to be an assumption that some of those passholder would have bought day or weekly tickets if it wasn't for the free pass.

There is a nice 120 page guide on the DfT website for those wanting knowledge of the matter and the actual guidance for calculations

Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?

(18 Nov 2021, 8:23 pm)54APhotography wrote Hence why I buy Day Rider Plus or All zones

As has been pointed out many times, that's not always an option for everyone. There's many a reason why a single is the only option.

---

(18 Nov 2021, 11:04 pm)idiot wrote Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...ary-travel

The calculator is easier.

Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf

Some noticeable things:

Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80

Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99

Night Bus Network - P102

The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120

Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.

P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.

(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf

Some noticeable things:

Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80

Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99

Night Bus Network - P102

The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120

Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.

P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.

Cheers - without going through it word for word, I think it's the same document that I have listed on my site and posted last week. The version I have was extracted out of the JTC minutes before it was published on there though, so it wasn't accessible.

I have added it to the list 

(22 Nov 2021, 10:08 pm)Adrian wrote Cheers - without going through it word for word, I think it's the same document that I have listed on my site and posted last week. The version I have was extracted out of the JTC minutes before it was published on there though, so it wasn't accessible.

I have added it to the list 

No worries, just had a look through. Yeah it is I believe, missed your post as it got lost with the talk about fares. Can tell by the broken map with Rake Lane floating in the middle of nowhere and supposedly a new super route along Beach Road which had me stumped for a moment.

The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.

Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.

(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine wrote The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.

Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.

It’s probably more about corridors than individual routes - the 20/55/X20 for example offer a 7-8 min frequency between East Herrington and Sunderland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf

Some noticeable things:

Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80

Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99

Night Bus Network - P102

The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120

Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.

P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy. 

Heck, people might think I know what I talk about now.
Unless of course they didn't do any survey and just cobbled together my rants from here. 

I liked this line too

 
Despite the insights gathered from the Big Bus Conversation, there is still scope to further the research into the attitudes of people who never use the bus at all, so that we have an enhanced body of research at a regional, strategic level to drive patronage growth and modal share.

 

Pretty sure I've said as much on here too, particularly relevant to the 2006 GNE changes, the inaccurate and unreliable data used and the impact those changes had to ongoing patronage.

(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine wrote The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.

Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.

Yeah agreed mind the arguably busiest part of the Metro outside the core isn't covered at all which is a bit of a surprise from Jesmond -> Whitley Bay excluding FLE without any services to Team Valley, Cobalt or Quorum which you'd think there would be some demand. Not sure what you could do though without doing a TFL type night bus which only exists in the evening. It would arguably be better for the 22 aswell which is a bit confusing and out of area.

Btw on Page 99 next to the graph it says it needs an extra 28 vehicles on the road to cover it. Not sure what's going on between North Shields and Whitley Bay which can't really be done without upping the 306 all the way through but then the rest of the Coast Road is just missing including Cobalt.

The every 5 minutes between Gateshead and Team Valley is interesting aswell assuming some new route there as it's nowhere near that atm.

(23 Nov 2021, 5:49 pm)Dan wrote It’s probably more about corridors than individual routes - the 20/55/X20 for example offer a 7-8 min frequency between East Herrington and Sunderland.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The section from South Shields -> Sunderland is every 10 minutes aswell according to it.

(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine wrote The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.

Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.

Really afaik 

20/60/56/X1/21 have all be cut down. They don't need any extra buses for these, they already have them, they have just been painted or some instances are still in the livery of the brand.

(23 Nov 2021, 10:57 pm)Keeiajs wrote Really afaik 

20/60/56/X1/21 have all be cut down. They don't need any extra buses for these, they already have them, they have just been painted or some instances are still in the livery of the brand.

Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)

(23 Nov 2021, 10:48 pm)Storx wrote Yeah agreed mind the arguably busiest part of the Metro outside the core isn't covered at all which is a bit of a surprise from Jesmond -> Whitley Bay excluding FLE without any services to Team Valley, Cobalt or Quorum which you'd think there would be some demand. Not sure what you could do though without doing a TFL type night bus which only exists in the evening. It would arguably be better for the 22 aswell which is a bit confusing and out of area.

They could run a 900 to Whitley Bay via Gosforth from Haymarket as a Metro service. Mind I think this is more about the bus network so I guess it would have to be separately funded by Nexus themselves as opposed to this investment. Would be a great addition though.

(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx wrote Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)

Hopefully they don't go with that branding, it's bloody awful!

Reading page 102. Shows Night buses. Expanding the Night network but one has me confused. 22 Newcastle to Whitley Bay via Wallsend North Shields & Tynemouth

Other routes including

43 Newcastle to Cramlington
308 Newcastle to Blyth
63 West Denton to Killingworth
X88 Newcastle to Airport
10 Newcastle to Prudhoe
97 Newcastle to Metrocentre
30 Newcastle to North Kenton
1 Coach Lane Campus to Slatyford
27 Newcastle to South Shields
39/40 Wallsend/Walkergate to Dumpling Hall/Chapel House
30 Newcastle to Silver Lonnen

(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx wrote Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.

The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)

I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.

On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.

On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.

I'd be interested to see where the data comes from.

I doubt that many people outside of current passengers/those with an interest engaged with Big Bus or Transport Focus. Some odditities that jumped out are journey times. Hebburn to Newcastle Central Station is listed as 51 minutes and the Metro as 22 mins whereas Hebburn to Central is 15 minutes (and should speed up slightly with MetroFlow)

I don't think the whole thing addresses the number one issue with Buses (outside of cost and convenience)....it's the beloved passenger 

Other questions I have: 
Realistically in a time of cuts and pulling back the covid deficit- who is funding all of the free kids travel?

How many DRT schemes do we need to run as a country before we realise they don't actually work? 

They can go on with all these pipe dreams and super routes or they could just introduce capped regionwide ticketing to support the Customers they currently have. 

There are shades of Project Orpheus here

(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian wrote I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.

On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.

On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.

Yeah totally agreed personally I'd love to see a unified branding but can't see it working especially under what's being proposed there.

Just looking at Blyth you'll end up with something like:

1/2 - Connect
X7/X8 - Interurban I assume
X9 - Unknown, Connect?
X10/X11 - Green Route
308/309 - Green Route

Personally that's more confusing that what's there already imo. Consett is the same:

X5/X15 - Unknown, Connect?
X45/X46/47 - Green Route
X70/X71 - Interurban
688 - Rural?
16/16A - Interurban / Connect?
8/78 - Interurban / Connect?

(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian wrote I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.

On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.

On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.

Suspect it will be a logo stuck on existing liveries given the description on pg 66 under initiative description (which wont copy and paste for some reason).

I note with some trepidation the reference elsewhere in the document to an enabler to increasing patronage being "if the bus was cheaper than car parking".  Suspect omst people who said this meant if bus fares were lower, not if parking rates were higher (such as removal of Alive after 5 etc in Newcastle).  Appreciate the fares proposals do go some way to address extortionate prices but they will still represent an increased cost for Joe Public popping into town for an hour or two in almost all LAs, compared to parking for that time, unless parking rates are hiked up = race to the bottom.

Seems to all but confirm (page 95) the temporary withdrawal of Service 100 is not temporary!

Interesting to see among all those proposed park and rides, nothing in Sunderland. Likewise virtually nothing on nightbuses in Sunderland - this is somewhat undertsnadable but inconsistent given the number of apparent superbus routes in the city during the day time... as opposed to Newcastle where all the routes where nightbuses have been multiply tried and failed are being resurrected as there is apparently proven demand now??

Just been trying to decipher the Green and Red Routes but seems to be the following for North Tyneside / Gateshead / Newcastle:

Red Routes:
62/63 | Four Lane Ends to West Denton
306/308/309/310/311 | Haymarket to Battle Hill?
39/40
??? | Gateshead to Team Valley
??? | Newcastle to Wrekenton, assume 56 is part of it.
30/31 | Benwell to Newcastle
43/44/45/46/Q3 | Newcastle to Brunton
X77/X78/X79/X87/X88 | Newcastle to Blakelaw

Green Routes:
1/306 | North Shields to Whitley Bay
308/309 | Rake Lane to Blyth
22 | Wallsend to Throckley
1 (SNE) | Coach Lane to Slatyford
10 | Newcastle to Crawcrook
X45/X46/47 - Newcastle to Rowlands Gill
X10/X11
X21/X22
12 (SNE)
51/52
58
27
X1
21
10/11 (SNE) | Partially

Quite a few frequency increases planned there if so especially in Gateshead.

Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...

(24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm)mb134 wrote Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...

I laughed at that too, GNEs myriad of fares and brands are the probably the most complex out of all

It’s political posturing at its best. It’s focusing on far too many nice to haves and not enough functional stuff like basic integrated ticketing across the region.

absolutely nothing will come of it and Labour will whinge about Tory cuts and we’ll be in 10 years behind where we should be. The exact same thing happened with Superroutes and Orpheus with Nexus.

I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please

(24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm)Keeiajs wrote I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please

Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.

(24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm)Andreos1 wrote Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.

Redbus is a rapper and is most noted for his collaborations with fellow rapper, Method Bus.

Both currently star in Power - Book 2: Ghost.

Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

(05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm)Malarkey wrote Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.

Just seen this in chronicle about what could have been at marlbough cresent regarding a bus station...

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/his...mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this

(06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am)54APhotography wrote I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.

Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.

The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.

Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .