(21 Jun 2023, 7:03 pm)Adrian wrote Until this pot of money is bled dry, I reckon. Despite the purpose supposedly being to *improve* services in the region.

It'd be interesting to see together, all these various sources of public money and how much from each source has been given to bus operators in this region.

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I reckon we need an expert FOI afficionado to do some digging!

So the trumpet blowers at Transport North East are today celebrating a Department of Transport announcement, claiming to be investing £45.6 million into improving bus services. TNE claim this to be "bringing our region's total BSIP funding to £163.5m"



That'd of course be a welcome announcement of investment, if they hadn't already announced back in April 2022, that they have been successful in a "funding award of £163.5 million over three years." - see: http://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/lat...ouncement/

Now maths isn't always my strong point, but wouldn't an additional £45.6 million, on top of the April 2022 award of £163.5 million, result in their total BSIP funding being £209.1 million? 

Unless of course this isn't new money, and in which case, why is there such a fanfare about it?

BSIP. Cuts. Cuts and more cuts. Early morning services decimated. Despite encouraging folk to use public transport, what choice do they have now. Cuts from Monday, more Cuts at the Autumn timetable change. No improvements anywhere, just Cuts.

(30 Jun 2023, 6:26 pm)54APhotography wrote BSIP. Cuts. Cuts and more cuts. Early morning services decimated. Despite encouraging folk to use public transport, what choice do they have now. Cuts from Monday, more Cuts at the Autumn timetable change. No improvements anywhere, just Cuts.

Are we ever going to get anything better, when the instant reaction to the Tories giving us our own money back, is to celebrate it?

It's no wonder they keep dangling that carrot.

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(30 Jun 2023, 6:46 pm)Adrian wrote Are we ever going to get anything better, when the instant reaction to the Tories giving us our own money back, is to celebrate it?

It's no wonder they keep dangling that carrot.

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Afraid not. And any move to operate under one banner in Newcastle won't do anything to mitigate the loses elsewhere. 

As I pointed out in a rant at my MP, what does my next door neighbour do to get to work for 7am now that his early bus on a Saturday won't exist from Monday... he's going back to using the car, and will Tuesday to Friday now.. How many more have been driven back to car use?

(30 Jun 2023, 6:26 pm)54APhotography wrote BSIP. Cuts. Cuts and more cuts. Early morning services decimated. Despite encouraging folk to use public transport, what choice do they have now. Cuts from Monday, more Cuts at the Autumn timetable change. No improvements anywhere,  just Cuts.

I believe that the "improvements" will start to appear in the autumn.

Nexus mustn't think that the withdrawal of some early morning journeys will cause any issues - they've certainly got the money to replace them if they did.

(01 Jul 2023, 11:16 am)busmanT wrote I believe that the "improvements" will start to appear in the autumn.

Nexus mustn't think that the withdrawal of some early morning journeys will cause any issues - they've certainly got the money to replace them if they did.

Any idea of what "Improvements" we'll see?

Is the funding spread equally or is it once again - mostly for Newcastle, rest of us get the scraps?

(01 Jul 2023, 11:35 am)I believe theMichael wrote Any idea of what "Improvements" we'll see?

Is the funding spread equally or is it once again - mostly for Newcastle, rest of us get the scraps?

I believe GNE 21 increasing back to every 7/8 minutes is one of the improvements.

(01 Jul 2023, 11:48 am)RobinHood wrote I believe GNE 21 increasing back to every 7/8 minutes is one of the improvements.

Great, we can have them running in groups of 4 instead of 3. 

Wasn't there funding to get 18 electric buses for the 21, will there still be enough if this increase does happen?

(01 Jul 2023, 11:35 am)Michael wrote Any idea of what "Improvements" we'll see?

Is the funding spread equally or is it once again - mostly for Newcastle, rest of us get the scraps?

We're getting electric buses on the Es, but I think that's about it for stuff not in Newcastle. Of course they'll claim since the other buses connect Newcastle with other parts that we're getting a fair share.

Newcastle just gets everything really, like how does the Q3 get new electric buses, the freq has been reduced and it defo isn't making a great deal of money.

(01 Jul 2023, 11:16 am)busmanT wrote I believe that the "improvements" will start to appear in the autumn.

Nexus mustn't think that the withdrawal of some early morning journeys will cause any issues - they've certainly got the money to replace them if they did.

I hope that improvements happen. Nexus seems picky about services and certainly.don"t expect them to help the cuts in non Newcastle services. Sadly things seem to be going downhill and I do wonder what future that services across all companies will look like in 24-36 months time....

(01 Jul 2023, 3:59 pm)Unber43 wrote Newcastle just gets everything really, like how does the Q3 get new electric buses, the freq has been reduced and it defo isn't making a great deal of money.

Part of the Q3 is Nexus funded, and I'm sure it was said that the Great Park development pays an annual amount to GNE as well, so it probably does fairly well for itself.

Talking of those electric buses, GNE might want to stop using them on the Hospital hopper buses. They regularly hit the bottom off those awful raised zebras at the Freeman.

(01 Jul 2023, 3:59 pm)Unber43 wrote Newcastle just gets everything really, like how does the Q3 get new electric buses, the freq has been reduced and it defo isn't making a great deal of money.

(01 Jul 2023, 8:05 pm)Shrek wrote Part of the Q3 is Nexus funded, and I'm sure it was said that the Great Park development pays an annual amount to GNE as well, so it probably does fairly well for itself.

Weren't they initially ordered for a different route?

(01 Jul 2023, 8:25 pm)mb134 wrote Weren't they initially ordered for a different route?

i dont think there was ever an idea what route they would be on when they were first ordered

(01 Jul 2023, 3:59 pm)Unber43 wrote Newcastle just gets everything really, like how does the Q3 get new electric buses, the freq has been reduced and it defo isn't making a great deal of money.

Q3 trundles around Central Newcastle, the Clean Air Zone (CAZ) and through Gosforth’s Air Quality Management Area (AQMA). 
Couldn’t think of a better route for electric buses.

(01 Jul 2023, 3:59 pm)Unber43 wrote Newcastle just gets everything really, like how does the Q3 get new electric buses, the freq has been reduced and it defo isn't making a great deal of money.

We get everything, really?, dunno where you've been but it certainly aint the North East

(06 Jul 2023, 5:48 pm)V514DFT wrote We get everything, really?, dunno where you've been but it certainly aint the North East

When was the last time a service that didn't serve Newcastle get a major investment? All I can think of is the 17 plate Streetlites at Deptford, which got withdrawn to serve services in Newcastle.

(07 Jul 2023, 3:08 am)deanmachine wrote When was the last time a service that didn't serve Newcastle get a major investment? All I can think of is the 17 plate Streetlites at Deptford, which got withdrawn to serve services in Newcastle.

The last couple of years has been out of necessity, perhaps not choice.

Before that, investment was regularly distributed evenly across the area. Gas bus fleet in Sunderland, minibus fleets in Washington, North Tyneside and Peterlee, Streetlites for the 20, 8/78 and Sunderland services. More recently, new P&R fleet for Durham.

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(07 Jul 2023, 3:08 am)deanmachine wrote When was the last time a service that didn't serve Newcastle get a major investment? All I can think of is the 17 plate Streetlites at Deptford, which got withdrawn to serve services in Newcastle.

In fairness there's not much investment in Newcastle either. Most the routes that got investment benefit Co. Durham and even parts of Sunderland with the X1 more so than the place itself. 

Stagecoach's investment has been lacking and North Tyneside (East of the A19) must have one of the most elderly fleet average age in the North East especially considering some of the strongest routes in the North East are here.

Not operator investment but South Shields got a brand new bus & Metro interchange in recent years, South Tyneside had the Metro Flow Project to dual the South Shields branch, and North Shields is currently getting a brand new bus station built to compliment its adjacent refurbished Metro station.
All investment outside of the City of Newcastle. Just for the record.

(07 Jul 2023, 3:08 am)deanmachine wrote When was the last time a service that didn't serve Newcastle get a major investment? All I can think of is the 17 plate Streetlites at Deptford, which got withdrawn to serve services in Newcastle.

Something implemented by the government so operators had to adjust to accomodate, hows that getting everything, and you said it yourself 17 PLATES, not like theyre brand new

(01 Jul 2023, 11:48 am)RobinHood wrote I believe GNE 21 increasing back to every 7/8 minutes is one of the improvements.

Does that include putting the 21 back to every 15 mins between Newcastle and Durham too?



When the 21 gets its electric buses, will they go all the way to Durham or will the service be cut between Chester-Le-Street and Newcastle only to due to amount of miles they can do?

If public money is used to increase the frequency of services like the 21, then that is a complete joke.

May as well go straight to franchising.

(10 Jul 2023, 5:26 pm)DeltaMan wrote If public money is used to increase the frequency of services like the 21, then that is a complete joke. 

May as well go straight to franchising.

Isn't that what's happened for donkeys years anyway? 

Without BSOG and other funky titled funding campaigns, we would certainly not have seen the purchases/subsequent allocations nor the resulting frequency on the 21.

Seen someone mention that Sleekburn Facebook message and dug it out - click here

Nice to see we're down to £73.5m per year for the BSIP now. That's going to go a long way. Another 3 years of kicking the can down the road. Assuming we won't be shouting about that though.

(12 Jul 2023, 9:09 pm)Storx wrote Seen someone mention that Sleekburn Facebook message and dug it out - click here

Nice to see we're down to £73.5m per year for the BSIP now. That's going to go a long way. Another 3 years of kicking the can down the road. Assuming we won't be shouting about that though.

Looks to be a different message to what was screenshot and put into Busesnortheast. Wonder if the other post was deleted, and he may have jumped the gun on announcing it?

(12 Jul 2023, 9:28 pm)mb134 wrote Looks to be a different message to what was screenshot and put into Busesnortheast. Wonder if the other post was deleted, and he may have jumped the gun on announcing it?

Ah I haven't seen it, don't go on the Facebook groups. I was wondering what the Arriva stuff was about, guess so then.

(12 Jul 2023, 9:09 pm)Storx wrote Seen someone mention that Sleekburn Facebook message and dug it out - click here

Nice to see we're down to £73.5m per year for the BSIP now. That's going to go a long way. Another 3 years of kicking the can down the road. Assuming we won't be shouting about that though.

£73.5m for capital spending, £90m for revenue spending between now and March 2025 - a significant sum.
According to the publicly available papers for the Joint Transport Committee, £17m is being spent on the BSIP fares.