(02 Oct 2023, 6:35 am)Andreos1 wrote But it doesn't explain the free rides though. 
Is the GNE claw back really going to cover the payment of covering the services AND free rides?

I'm wondering if it's more around the setup or even installation of kit to take payment? Even if they got the ETMs in place, they'd likely still be without the ability to take contactless at such short notice.

(02 Oct 2023, 6:35 am)Andreos1 wrote But it doesn't explain the free rides though. 
Is the GNE claw back really going to cover the payment of covering the services AND free rides?

Not sure what law it's under but it'll be illegal for them to take fares unless it was sub contracted by GoNorthEast as the registration is under their name. Otherwise if I had a PSV licence, I could just buy a double decker and run 2 minutes in front of a 21 at peak times and take fares. It would be easy to get away with aswell since GoNorthEast has 100 brands so people would just think it's another.

Mind I'm not sure it's legal to run a free bus service either tbh - https://www.gov.uk/run-local-bus-service/exemptions. It certainly doesn't hit all that criteria for an excemption (advertised in advance).

Well with the Strikes, it has caused some bizarre School Bus Allocations, especially in the Consett area.

Yeah I saw the 861 operated by an X1 StreetDeck, normally a Drifter or Versa.

I see the H is only running with a PVR of 1 instead of 2

Looking at all the school buses if it was management running the routes than i think I can see where GNE money problems are coming from with the amount of managers theyve got

(02 Oct 2023, 12:10 pm)Unber43 wrote Looking at all the school buses if it was management running the routes than i think I can see where GNE money problems are coming from with the amount of managers theyve got

It won't just be management. There are numerous former drivers in back office roles within Recruitment and HR, H&S, Commercial and also the control team has numerous staff with the correct licenses. Then add in management, staff managers, General managers etc. Then you add in the agency drivers they currently are employing for the 351 and 359 who, since they are not doing their regular routes, no doubt are also deployed on the scholars and DFDS etc

Then on top of those will be the drivers who are not in the union, so therefore would not get the £70 a day union payment and probably don't want to or can't afford to lose a whole weeks wage so have chosen to carry on working and then finally there will be those who are in the union but voted no to striking, of which there were 22 of them, who may have also chosen to carry on working.

All of those put together would just about cover what is needed

Seems Riverside and Washington are the only depots operating.

(02 Oct 2023, 2:15 pm)Unber43 wrote Seems Riverside and Washington are the only depots operating.

Saltmeadows aswell apparently

(29 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Ambassador wrote Yes. The union demands will be negotiated and this is clearly more about terms and conditions than basic pay, despite the latest Unite bluster. 

The current management and commercial model shows no sign of returning to profit, it’s still recovering from Gilbert and his enthusiast crazed decisions. It’s clearly poorly run, whether wilfully or just a lack of people management/experience and it being on the cheap is another matter. Despite what we see from management twitter and Facebook accounts…run properly there’s hope. 

There is also no chance in hell Go Ahead won’t be waiting for the golden goose of franchising coming in once the Regional Mayor gets their feet under the table.

This got me thinking.  

Perhaps GNE / Go Ahead are happy to let the strike run and then hope to break it,   They then will have a workforce that is cheaper with poorer conditions of service than the other two large operators, and they can underbid them for the franchises. 

During the strike, they will not be paying wages of those on strike, and don’t have the running costs of providing commercial services (obviously with the exception of fixed costs)but are still receiving some income from the contracts they are running. 

They will certainly be losing money, but apparently they are anyway, and does public perception of the company matter come franchising? The travelling public won’t care who is running the buses then as long as the fares are cheaper and the service is better. 

Any routes won from other operators would likely lead to staff being TUPE’d over, maybe easing any staffing issues.

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(29 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Ambassador wrote Yes. The union demands will be negotiated and this is clearly more about terms and conditions than basic pay, despite the latest Unite bluster. 

The current management and commercial model shows no sign of returning to profit, it’s still recovering from Gilbert and his enthusiast crazed decisions. It’s clearly poorly run, whether wilfully or just a lack of people management/experience and it being on the cheap is another matter. Despite what we see from management twitter and Facebook accounts…run properly there’s hope. 

There is also no chance in hell Go Ahead won’t be waiting for the golden goose of franchising coming in once the Regional Mayor gets their feet under the table.

This got me thinking.  

Perhaps GNE / Go Ahead are happy to let the strike run and then hope to break it,   They then will have a workforce that is cheaper with poorer conditions of service than the other two large operators, and they can underbid them for the franchises. 

During the strike, they will not be paying wages of those on strike, and don’t have the running costs of providing commercial services (obviously with the exception of fixed costs)but are still receiving some income from the contracts they are running. 

They will certainly be losing money, but apparently they are anyway, and does public perception of the company matter come franchising? The travelling public won’t care who is running the buses then as long as the fares are cheaper and the service is better. 

Any routes won from other operators would likely lead to staff being TUPE’d over, maybe easing any staffing issues.

(02 Oct 2023, 7:32 am)DeltaMan wrote It's entirely possible. The council simply won't pay them for what they've not done and divert that money to the greatly reduced service level. There is a chance NCC may even make a saving!

I'd believe it when I see it. 
Huge opportunity for these private operators to whack up their charges to NCC. Particularly at this short notice. 
Drivers wages, increased fuel costs, maybe even additional insurance... No doubt there's been some sort of time/cost associated with route familiarisation too.

Then there's the associated admin costs. 

A logistical nightmare.

Services 335/351/359 now operating this morning, unadvertised presumably to prevent the abuse for picking 3 of their quietest services to run.


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Tbf imo if any of the route should run it should be the 309/307/335/351/352/353/354/355/359, to build customer confience in the new comerical risk they took on

(03 Oct 2023, 7:35 am)Unber43 wrote Tbf imo if any of the route should run it should be the 309/307/335/351/352/353/354/355/359, to build customer confience in the new comerical risk they took on

They're running the 3 routes they are as they're contracted services and there's penalities for not doing so.

(03 Oct 2023, 7:35 am)Unber43 wrote Tbf imo if any of the route should run it should be the 309/307/335/351/352/353/354/355/359, to build customer confience in the new comerical risk they took on

Aside from Storx pointing out that the 335/351/359 are contracted, the rest of those routes you've listed are either fully or partially covered by either an Arriva or Stagecoach service, or the TWM. 

There are other areas of GNEs network that, if resource allowed, would be prioritised over them running a 309.

(02 Oct 2023, 3:43 pm)Bazza wrote This got me thinking.  

Perhaps GNE / Go Ahead are happy to let the strike run and then hope to break it,   They then will have a workforce that is cheaper with poorer conditions of service than the other two large operators, and they can underbid them for the franchises. 

During the strike, they will not be paying wages of those on strike, and don’t have the running costs of providing commercial services (obviously with the exception of fixed costs)but are still receiving some income from the contracts they are running. 

They will certainly be losing money, but apparently they are anyway, and does public perception of the company matter come franchising? The travelling public won’t care who is running the buses then as long as the fares are cheaper and the service is better. 

Any routes won from other operators would likely lead to staff being TUPE’d over, maybe easing any staffing issues.

I'm not sure why you would? If you can't get people to work for you (and stay!) on the current pay and conditions, what hope have you got by further drumming them into the ground?

I think it'll depend on who is running the NEMCA and issuing contracts, on whether public perception will matter or not. Remember, in North of Tyne, they operate a 'Good Work Pledge'. I somehow don't think you'd qualify with a track record that a certain MD has, unless ideas are sharply bucked up...

I suppose we also have no idea who would bid for any potential franchising contract (it could attract other operators into the fore)

GNE have informed Nexus that they are unable to cover some school runs for the rest of the week

(03 Oct 2023, 10:06 am)NL62WVW wrote GNE have informed Nexus that they are unable to cover some school runs for the rest of the week

Wonder if they might lose the contracts for those specific services

(01 Oct 2023, 3:27 pm)Adrian wrote They're asking people on Social Media to contact them directly, rather than making a blanket statement about what they intend to do.

According to their Ticket Refund Policy, they reserve the right to refuse a refund:

This pretty much echoes consumer law, and whilst I'm by no means an expert on it, they'd class industrial action as an unforeseen circumstance. Even though they're completely at liberty to prevent the dispute. 

That being said, it'd be extremely poor of them to not refund days lost to customers, and I imagine it'd cause even more reputational damage than they've already done to themselves.

On this, although GNE appear to have gone to radio silence on Social Media this week, I noticed two tweets pointing customers to this claim form: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/ticket-claim

Looking at the refund table, it appears that if you purchased your weekly ticket on Monday 25th September, they're only going to refund 1 day of travel, despite 2 days of no buses in that period. It seems to be the policy that they'll sell you short by a day's travel, unless you purchased on the day before the strike.

Call me a cynic, but I can see why they're not openly posting that information on Social Media...

If you have purchased a week or monthly ticket on the app and haven't activated it you can claim a refund too

(03 Oct 2023, 10:15 am)Unber43 wrote Wonder if they might lose the contracts for those specific services

It would be an absolute shame if they lost the contracts and had to reduce the workforce.

(03 Oct 2023, 2:10 pm)streetdeckfan wrote It would be an absolute shame if they lost the contracts and had to reduce the workforce.

lol, reduce the workforce, they can't get enough drivers through the door as it is.

(03 Oct 2023, 10:06 am)NL62WVW wrote GNE have informed Nexus that they are unable to cover some school runs for the rest of the week

No sign of Featham leaping to his feet to help out? Other Managing Directors would

Some school run haven't ran

Gne "ill run service routes even though I said I'd run school runs instead"

The H hasn't run at all today but somehow had enough to provide some school runs and then provide the full 351/359/335 rota. Funny ain't it

Turns out having 2 less deckers between Durham and Bishop results in capacity issues at peak time.

I suppose it's an excuse to spend more time in Spoons!

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(03 Oct 2023, 2:36 pm)DeltaMan wrote No sign of Featham leaping to his feet to help out? Other Managing Directors would

The last one may have done, but I doubt it and anyway, would have just done it so he could take a photo and stick it on X

(03 Oct 2023, 2:36 pm)DeltaMan wrote No sign of Featham leaping to his feet to help out? Other Managing Directors would

Time the Go Ahead Group ended their employ of Feetham. The man is poison.

Really need to strike a deal but I ain't optimistic. The X12 has been ludicrously chocka block, the road works in Durham doesn't do the route any justice.

(03 Oct 2023, 7:14 pm)itsadam wrote Really need to strike a deal but I ain't optimistic. The X12 has been ludicrously chocka block, the road works in Durham doesn't do the route any justice.

The X12 was unreliable for the 8 years I lived on it. Its always needed better resourcing, but never had more than a half arsed effort... I bet the max branding is still listing Plawsworth!

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