(15 Nov 2023, 6:57 pm)Bazza wrote So are more drivers returning to work, or are these ‘back office’ staff who have now been route learned?

The fact that GNE has been able to resource the entire peak timetable (which, during the first two strikes, was needing to be sub-contracted by local authorities to other operators) suggests there is now an increased number of drivers back at work.

Contrary to reports to the media by Unite, I understand most engineers are now back at work too.

Whilst it is impossible for spectators (and, to an extent, even the company’s own colleagues) of this dispute to know all the facts, what is clear is that all is not what it seems in the media, and there is far more than what meets the eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(15 Nov 2023, 3:00 pm)Ambassador wrote I have to defend the running of the 21 here.

Your flagship route, carries the most passengers, barely copes in full service - it's surely a no brainer to run this?

The 67 can provide connections to the QE from along the route and places the 51/52 etc serve. It's not idea but its better than nothing

I agree, there's some logic in that being the priority, regardless what I think of it overall. It's still one of their most high-profile services, and if you've got limited-to-no cash coming in, you reach out to the one that might be a starting point.

Whilst people are understandably going to remain pissed off that they're without a bus service, the demand still has to be that the dispute is resolved and service returns to normal. Go North East have a lot of bridges to build in communities that they've abandoned. 

As for secured services that are still not being operated; that one is on Nexus, in my opinion. Those services are supposed to be socially necessary, and whilst I don't expect Tobyn and co to have foreseen an indefinite strike taking place, to the public it appears that they've done absolutely nothing to mitigate against the non-performance of their contractor. When GCT were struggling to cover services, we were all calling for their heads/stripping them of contracts/re-tendering etc. Why should it be any different now.

(15 Nov 2023, 8:08 pm)Dan wrote The fact that GNE has been able to resource the entire peak timetable (which, during the first two strikes, was needing to be sub-contracted by local authorities to other operators) suggests there is now an increased number of drivers back at work.

Contrary to reports to the media by Unite, I understand most engineers are now back at work too.

Whilst it is impossible for spectators (and, to an extent, even the company’s own colleagues) of this dispute to know all the facts, what is clear is that all is not what it seems in the media, and there is far more than what meets the eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most driverrs are probably more annoyed at the way Featham and Maxfield treat them, as opposed to the pay offer.

(15 Nov 2023, 9:04 pm)Thomas12 wrote Most driverrs are probably more annoyed at the way Featham and Maxfield treat them, as opposed to the pay offer.

Of course, that is your opinion. I am sure others have formed a similar opinion based on the few internal briefings which have been leaked.

Nonetheless, Unite has stated the strike is due to a ‘derisory pay offer’. The strike doesn’t really take into account how employees feel about directors of the company, and means the dispute itself is (or should be) about pay and pay only.

I am good friends with plenty of drivers who openly admit they are content with the offer, don’t particularly care about any of the mutual combative communications between the company and Unite, and are only on strike because they are following the recommendations of the Union, so in the meantime are ‘enjoying an extended holiday’ because they don’t have to even go to the picket line during the week to be eligible for strike pay.

One would suggest that furlough during the Covid-19 pandemic has a lot to answer for!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(15 Nov 2023, 9:35 pm)Dan wrote Of course, that is your opinion. I am sure others have formed a similar opinion based on the few internal briefings which have been leaked.

Nonetheless, Unite has stated the strike is due to a ‘derisory pay offer’. The strike doesn’t really take into account how employees feel about directors of the company, and means the dispute itself is (or should be) about pay and pay only.

I am good friends with plenty of drivers who openly admit they are content with the offer, don’t particularly care about any of the mutual combative communications between the company and Unite, and are only on strike because they are following the recommendations of the Union, so in the meantime are ‘enjoying an extended holiday’, as they don’t have to even go to the picket line during the week to be eligible for strike pay.

One would suggest that furlough during the Covid-19 pandemic has a lot to answer for!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm good friends with a few who are striking because they believe they have to, and are expecting to move on from Go Ahead employment soon because it is no longer a place they feel comfortable working. Personally, while I'm not always supportive of unions, I find the suggestion that people are striking for "free holiday" a highly unlikely scenario and I hate the constant suggestion that Covid has made people lazy.

COVID has made people stand up for their rights. Showed them employment can be something else than 5-6days a week to make a living

(15 Nov 2023, 9:46 pm)Shrek wrote I'm good friends with a few who are striking because they believe they have to, and are expecting to move on from Go Ahead employment soon because it is no longer a place they feel comfortable working. Personally, while I'm not always supportive of unions, I find the suggestion that people are striking for "free holiday" a highly unlikely scenario and I hate the constant suggestion that Covid has made people lazy.

Oh, absolutely. Each individual has a different motivation.

Some will genuinely be on strike because they feel the pay offer isn’t acceptable, others are on strike because they have seen how ‘scabs’ have been treated by their colleagues, and however unlikely you deem the scenario to be, it is the truth that some are using this as an opportunity for ‘free holiday’.

Most of us on this forum are bus users, are directly employed by the company, or have friends/family who are employed by the company. This means that the strike is affecting almost all of us on this forum. One thing that we can all agree on is that the company and Unite need to resolve the dispute as soon as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly the scabs should get whatever pay rise which was on the table before they started going back to work

(15 Nov 2023, 10:10 pm)Unber43 wrote Honestly the scabs should get whatever pay rise which was on the table before they started going back to work

That would be entirely counter productive. There’s many reasons a driver may have gone back full time. Sole earner, personal reasons not limited to mental health concerns or a general personal choice 

All that would do is create a more decisive culture and that’s the last thing anyone needs or wants.

I don’t think we’re seeing a hugely negative regional economic impact but we’re certainly seeing some social exclusion develop, either way, the sooner parties can come together and compromise, the better for all concerned.

(15 Nov 2023, 9:35 pm)Dan wrote Of course, that is your opinion. I am sure others have formed a similar opinion based on the few internal briefings which have been leaked.

Nonetheless, Unite has stated the strike is due to a ‘derisory pay offer’. The strike doesn’t really take into account how employees feel about directors of the company, and means the dispute itself is (or should be) about pay and pay only.

I am good friends with plenty of drivers who openly admit they are content with the offer, don’t particularly care about any of the mutual combative communications between the company and Unite, and are only on strike because they are following the recommendations of the Union, so in the meantime are ‘enjoying an extended holiday’ because they don’t have to even go to the picket line during the week to be eligible for strike pay.

One would suggest that furlough during the Covid-19 pandemic has a lot to answer for!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dan, it’s a shame you aren’t in charge of comms. You speak a lot better than other people in the company.

(15 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm)Ambassador wrote That would be entirely counter productive. There’s many reasons a driver may have gone back full time. Sole earner, personal reasons not limited to mental health concerns or a general personal choice 

All that would do is create a more decisive culture and that’s the last thing anyone needs or wants.

I don’t think we’re seeing a hugely negative regional economic impact but we’re certainly seeing some social exclusion develop, either way, the sooner parties can come together and compromise, the better for all concerned.

Completely agree.

Yesterday, I spoke with a supervisor who is driving and they told me about an elderly passenger who got on their bus and asked if they could have a hug as it was the first time they had seen or spoken to someone for weeks (since the start of the continuous strike).

If ever we needed a reminder that the interpeak skeleton service does serve a good purpose in our communities…

During the pandemic, Go-Ahead did a lot of work nationally for ‘chatty bus’ which focused on social exclusion. That elderly passenger will not be the first and certainly won’t be the last.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(15 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm)Ambassador wrote That would be entirely counter productive. There’s many reasons a driver may have gone back full time. Sole earner, personal reasons not limited to mental health concerns or a general personal choice 

All that would do is create a more decisive culture and that’s the last thing anyone needs or wants.

I don’t think we’re seeing a hugely negative regional economic impact but we’re certainly seeing some social exclusion develop, either way, the sooner parties can come together and compromise, the better for all concerned.

Absolutely agree with this.

One driver at Arriva back in 2019 had to go back in to work to earn money to not only live, but fuel money to travel to the RVI each day to see his gravely ill daughter.

He got his tyres slashed for that. Inexcusable, but nobody wanted to hear the reasons.

Yup. One of the drivers at our depot went in otherwise he would've defaulted on his debts. Not only is he nearly universally hated, you can get yourself on the hitlist for even talking to him.

Hell, after the first strike we did, everyone who wasn't on strike got blanked, including the engineers and the woman who runs the canteen.

I think some drivers have gone back to work, not out of choice, but because they can't afford to live even with the union incentive. They have become dependant on the regular overtime just to survive, and that is something no company should be effecively forcing an inidividual to live like. I genuinely feel for people who are in this position.

Management on the whole for always to some degree been seen as for each other and not for anyone else, it seems that they have gone to the next level and outwardly 'proud' of not giving a flying f*!k about anyone other than themselves. To be honest I don't think group gives a toss either as long as the bottom line isn't affected.

I wonder how the beligerant driver who appeared on Look North is still in service after reportedly hitting several drivers on the picket line recently. In any other time that would be gross misconduct and dismissal, and at the very least suspension pending investigation.

Lying about intentions from management isn't anything new - directors have told staff to their faces at depot forums in the past that they are committed to the future of a service (post COVID) and to investing in a depot, only to reallocate and withdraw buses and services weeks later and trying to run services from another depot to see if they could close it.

Oh. and although I presume OneTeamGNE is now defunct - I wonder how many of the original people (including operational staff) involved still work for GNE?
.
What started out as a pay dispute has turned out into trying to change terms and conditions (despite them saying it isn't tied in - everyone clearly knows what will happen) - then GNE Management have gone all out to show their true colours and wash their dirty laundry in public without an ounce of embarrasment. Clearly when you're branding a bus for a North West recruitment policy in the North East it shows how little care the company has for their staff (other than management) in the North East.

Drivers are rightly angry at the way they are being treated and until management change their approach, i can't see an end to this dispute, and even when it is resolved I think we'll see a mass exodus once back pay is sorted.

(15 Nov 2023, 9:35 pm)Dan wrote Of course, that is your opinion. I am sure others have formed a similar opinion based on the few internal briefings which have been leaked.

Nonetheless, Unite has stated the strike is due to a ‘derisory pay offer’. The strike doesn’t really take into account how employees feel about directors of the company, and means the dispute itself is (or should be) about pay and pay only.

I am good friends with plenty of drivers who openly admit they are content with the offer, don’t particularly care about any of the mutual combative communications between the company and Unite, and are only on strike because they are following the recommendations of the Union, so in the meantime are ‘enjoying an extended holiday’ because they don’t have to even go to the picket line during the week to be eligible for strike pay.

One would suggest that furlough during the Covid-19 pandemic has a lot to answer for!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im confused with this bit.  Didn't the union recommend that take the second offer but when put to vote 80 odd % of member rejested it?

(16 Nov 2023, 8:50 am)Rob44 wrote Im confused with this bit.  Didn't the union recommend that take the second offer but when put to vote 80 odd % of member rejested it?

I believe GNE wanted the reps recommendation, but they would not endorse it, but agreed to put it to a member vote at the request of GNE anyway.

(16 Nov 2023, 8:15 am)xpm wrote I think some drivers have gone back to work, not out of choice, but because they can't afford to live even with the union incentive. They have become dependant on the regular overtime just to survive, and that is something no company should be effecively forcing an inidividual to live like. I genuinely feel for people who are in this position.

I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

If a Colleague is working full time hours and then relying on overtime to meet cost of living and basic needs. It is a GNE problem, it would be any employers problem and lots of them do something about it, regardless of who is in Government.

It's not necessarily fixable with a pay rise - but other benefits (health care plans, helping hand loans, employee assistance programmes, link ins with Citizens Advice etc can support this and are proven methods of keeping colleague retention levels high (which they may already do for all I know)

I don't like GNE management and I don't love the Union approach either but it's not always a case of waving cash - there are other elements at play in most companies - hell, it's my day to day

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

Do GNE not need driver to DO OVERTIME to run all the buses on a daily timetable?  Look at the cancelations on the trains due to " overtime Bans"

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

A bit of an overreaction there perhaps, and stupid, really?

Cost of living excluding everything you mention above has caused outgoings for everyone to go up, but GNEs stance is we're not making enough profit (asides the £85 million we made in group).  Things which employees have little control over like gas, electric, petrol/diesel prices, food, etc has all gone up massively - these are essentials - not optional.

Staff buses run from high density driver areas - a lot of drivers areas have no service at all - so that is an essential cost to them.

Employment in an ideal world should be based on mutual respect - not a one way transaction where the employer throws you some bones at the end of the week grudgingly and tries its best to get out of doing so, and tries to find ways to make you work longer for the same pay, and lambast and degrade you at every possible opportunity.

An employer has a responsibility to ensure that none of it's employees are forced to work overtime just to meet their day to day needs.  When overtime does dry up GNE are quite happy to cut off employees like junkies needing their fix with no thought for the help they have given the company, either at short notice, or the fact they rely on the extra to make ends meet (and any manager who says they don't know who those people are, are lying).  I'm not going to even enter into the discussion about children - it's quite clear from what you've written you do not have any, or appreciate any of the ups and downs of family life in that regard.

(16 Nov 2023, 8:50 am)Rob44 wrote Im confused with this bit.  Didn't the union recommend that take the second offer but when put to vote 80 odd % of member rejested it?

No.

Unite had indicated during pay talks that they would recommend a 10% offer, but when it came down to that offer actually going to ballot, they decided that they were no longer in favour and recommended that drivers rejected this offer.

This is the only offer to date which has gone to ballot, and the company has given five improved offers now.

Again - as I said yesterday - there is clearly way more to this dispute than what meets the eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(16 Nov 2023, 11:22 am)Dan wrote No.

Unite had indicated during pay talks that they would recommend a 10% offer, but when it came down to that offer actually going to ballot, they decided that they were no longer in favour and recommended that drivers rejected this offer.

This is the only offer to date which has gone to ballot, and the company has given five improved offers now.

Again - as I said yesterday - there is clearly way more to this dispute than what meets the eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah ok, i must admit that's not how it was reported in the article I read but fair do's

---

I just bloody noticed there's no Saturday or Sunday Skelton services running - how am I going to get to the pub??

I have seen online (rightly or wrongly) that more talks are scheduled today.

Fingers crossed as ever for all concerned.

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

Words that Cruella would be proud of. I'm not going to pick it apart, step by step and I shall thank Ambassador for making it clear what a decent employer should be doing but I will say that many people have kids they very much can afford but then circumstances change. Many people live very much within their means, but then circumstances change. Sometimes very rapidly and catastrophically.

(16 Nov 2023, 11:22 am)Dan wrote No.

Unite had indicated during pay talks that they would recommend a 10% offer, but when it came down to that offer actually going to ballot, they decided that they were no longer in favour and recommended that drivers rejected this offer.

This is the only offer to date which has gone to ballot, and the company has given five improved offers now.

Again - as I said yesterday - there is clearly way more to this dispute than what meets the eye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not true.

(16 Nov 2023, 11:50 am)Rob44 wrote I just bloody noticed there's no Saturday or Sunday Skelton services running - how am I going to get to the pub??

Looks like the 5/5a, and perhaps the X3, run to Skelton on both Saturday and Sundays. You'll probably have to get the train to Middlesbrough first to get there though.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm sorry but it's completely stupid to say that GNE are forcing drivers to rely on the overtime.

If people are relying on the regular overtime to survive, that's a them problem not a GNE problem.

GNE didn't force their drivers to get themselves into debt to the point where they need the overtime.

GNE didn't force their drivers to have children they couldn't afford.

GNE didn't cause the drivers partner to lose their job so they now have to rely on one income.

GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

If the drivers aren't living within their means, that's entirely on them and absolutely nothing to do with GNE.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

So would you be advocating the bus drivers to look for alternate employment to improve their income? 

Obviously the outcome of that is a shortage of drivers, which is what we've witnessed these past few years.

Making the job unappealing, through poor compensation packages and (allegedly) deteriorating terms and conditions is the fault of the companies, and should probably be a top priority to fix.

I think there needs to be a change of how people view salaries in this country. The amount of comments you see on social media slating the drivers for wanting a better wage because "x workers are only paid £x" is quite sad. There are a decent chunk of people who still view what was deemed a good salary 10-15 years ago as good today - when that's not the case at all.

Update from today


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I bet Ben is chomping at the bit to put out a disparaging internal memo to be leaked.

Meanwhile - view from the Unite side of the negotiating table.  Some of you may be a bit too young to get the reference.

(16 Nov 2023, 9:38 am)streetdeckfan wrote GNE didn't even put Liz Truss into power allegedly causing the economy to go tits up.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

Since your post as already been ripped apart by others, I'll pick up on this.

Liz Truss did cause our economy to nosedive, no allegedly about it.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk