(02 Dec 2023, 9:38 am)RobinHood wrote Offering free travel on a 9-5 skeleton service is significantly different to free travel, including multi-operator day tickets on a normal network.

But, I do get your point.

I wonder how this is working in respect of any cost based agreements they may have? I assume the buyer isn't too chuffed about not having any revenue passed over to them?

Not sure how the costings are worked but surely GNE will still have to pay for the tickets regardless if their multimodel. So Arriva won't be impacted at all, especially with the TNE tickets.
 
I assume the problem with the Coast Road will be everyone will be getting singles instead which will be outside the partnership.

Assuming that the TNE system is done on some form of ORCATS system where all the money goes into one pot and then split between the relevant companies depending on how many passengers they carry - not sure how they calculate Metro passengers though - predictions?

(02 Dec 2023, 9:25 am)mb134 wrote They've been forced into accepting it in a way though, as anyone can just get on a GNE bus to obtain a TNE day ticket then use those on Arriva and Stagecoach services for the rest of the day? It'll obviously have an impact on the on bus revenues of the other operators.

Given other operators are reimbursed based on usage, there is no revenue impact to other operators on TNE products.

The only revenue impact will be on shared corridors where a customer chooses to purchase an operator-specific day ticket, or a single/return fare.

Of course, we all know Go North East’s competitors would have preferred the company to do nothing to attract back its customers, and hope that any customers that have migrated across to them during the strike would remain.

The suggestion from RobinHood above that other operators aren’t happy with this special offer (of just 7 days in duration) after they’ve had 7 weeks of increased revenue on these same corridors - due to the absence of Go North East - is somewhat farcical.


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(02 Dec 2023, 9:57 am)Dan wrote Given other operators are reimbursed based on usage, there is no revenue impact to other operators on TNE products.

The only revenue impact will be on shared corridors where a customer chooses to purchase an operator-specific day ticket, or a single/return fare.

Of course, we all know Go North East’s competitors would have preferred the company to do nothing to attract back its customers, and hope that any customers that have migrated across to them during the strike would remain.

The suggestion from RobinHood above that other operators aren’t happy with this special offer (of just 7 days in duration) after they’ve had 7 weeks of increased revenue on these same corridors - due to the absence of Go North East - is somewhat farcical.


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But the whole point is that where mutual ticket acceptance is agreed on a shared corridor such as the Coast Road, then the same provisions should be in place for Arriva to offer this on the 306/308.

(02 Dec 2023, 10:16 am)L469 YVK wrote But the whole point is that where mutual ticket acceptance is agreed on a shared corridor such as the Coast Road, then the same provisions should be in place for Arriva to offer this on the 306/308.

But that applied to returns didn’t it, not singles?

(02 Dec 2023, 9:57 am)Dan wrote The suggestion from RobinHood above that other operators aren’t happy with this special offer (of just 7 days in duration) after they’ve had 7 weeks of increased revenue on these same corridors - due to the absence of Go North East - is somewhat farcical.

Agreed. What planet is he on? ?

(01 Dec 2023, 10:47 pm)Unber43 wrote Its a different company, no one would think that.

Also get a day ticket then theyre free, or even a GNE return

IME a lot of people have no idea what company runs their bus. 

Though a lot more people in GNE only areas will have a much better idea, by now.

(02 Dec 2023, 9:57 am)Dan wrote Given other operators are reimbursed based on usage, there is no revenue impact to other operators on TNE products.

The only revenue impact will be on shared corridors where a customer chooses to purchase an operator-specific day ticket, or a single/return fare.


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Of which there are quite a few. I now have a GNE service past my house again, it's pretty useless to me generally in all honesty due to the length of time it takes to get into Newcastle and how often it seems to suffer from delays when I have thought about using it, but now I can jump on it for one stop to obtain a TNE ticket to use on the faster Arriva/Stagecoach alternatives (or T&W Metro on the return). That's income that previously would have been fully ANE/SNE/T&W Metro's depending on where exactly I was going. 

So again, back to my initial response, the other operators are essentially being forced into offering massively subsidised travel along many corridors and it is obviously going to have an impact on their revenues. How much of an impact is obviously unclear, but it will absolutely have one.

As much as I like a grumble can we take this a face value positive commercial decision, a sensible one to attract customers back (those who may have migrated to the X12 or 22X as examples) with the added bonus of a PR boost from a weary and cold public

If they’d have excluded shared corridors it would have been a disaster and more uproar on here

(02 Dec 2023, 11:22 am)Ambassador wrote If they’d have excluded shared corridors it would have been a disaster and more uproar on here

Not exclude......but in the case where a mutual agreement is in place such as the Coast Road qualifying agreement, GNE & TNE should be working with the other operator to ensure that the same arrangements can be offered by the other operator too

I'd be interested to know the exact questions, but it mirrors what's I've heard "Down the Dog and Duck" so to speak https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-28211766

(02 Dec 2023, 11:40 am)L469 YVK wrote Not exclude......but in the case where a mutual agreement is in place such as the Coast Road qualifying agreement, GNE & TNE should be working with the other operator to ensure that the same arrangements can be offered by the other operator too

Why should the other operators be offering it though? They've been providing a service for the last month. The only way they should provide free tickets is if GNE pay the costs of it. We know that's not going to happen.

Changing in the next few hours, only Adult Singles and Returns are free now

Outstanding work from GNE again

(02 Dec 2023, 11:49 am)Shrek wrote Why should the other operators be offering it though? They've been providing a service for the last month. The only way they should provide free tickets is if GNE pay the costs of it. We know that's not going to happen.

Well that's exactly what should be happening as part of the Coast Road agreement with GNE re-imbursing Arriva for singles & returns on the 306 & 308

i dont know anyone on this planet who would pick the X12 over a GNE bus going to newcastle

(02 Dec 2023, 12:49 pm)Unber43 wrote i dont know anyone on this planet who would pick the X12 over a GNE bus going to newcastle

People who live in and around Durham and have Arriva weekly/monthly tickets?

The people who just get on the first bus which comes (given the current £2 singles)?

People who use journey planners such as Google Maps, and the X12 is the next bus at their stop?

(02 Dec 2023, 11:55 am)NL62WVW wrote Changing in the next few hours, only Adult Singles and Returns are free now

Outstanding work from GNE again

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/welcome-back

Page has been updated to just singles and returns.

Poorly thought out, considered and implemented. Although not surprised given they left themselves wide open to potential issues from TNE, Network One, Arriva just as examples of companies that they have formal agreements with in consideration of fares charged.

(02 Dec 2023, 1:12 pm)RobinHood wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/welcome-back

Page has been updated to just singles and returns.

Poorly thought out, considered and implemented. Although not surprised given they left themselves wide open to potential issues from TNE, Network One, Arriva just as examples of companies that they have formal agreements with in consideration of fares charged.

They can't even update the page properly, still has "Free single and day tickets will be available onboard our buses." on the third line down. 

What a mess.

(02 Dec 2023, 1:12 pm)RobinHood wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/welcome-back

Page has been updated to just singles and returns.

Poorly thought out, considered and implemented. Although not surprised given they left themselves wide open to potential issues from TNE, Network One, Arriva just as examples of companies that they have formal agreements with in consideration of fares charged.

Surely you don’t actually believe this wasn’t discussed and agreed with Local Authorities and Transport North East prior to implementation?

Heck, the fact that Councillor Gannon was the first to announce it - ahead of the company - tells you that TNE were clearly involved.

The reason for the change to singles and returns is simply in response to customer and colleague feedback this morning, and down to how customers have responded to the offer on day one, thus avoiding putting drivers in a situation of conflict.

Effectively the offer remains the same - albeit now excludes TNE products - as customers can still travel all day for free.


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(02 Dec 2023, 12:49 pm)Unber43 wrote i dont know anyone on this planet who would pick the X12 over a GNE bus going to newcastle

I certainly do, it’s quicker from Chester or Birtley, Allerdene and Harlow Green than the Angel is

And if you’re heading to low fell, it’s cheaper than GNE too

(02 Dec 2023, 12:49 pm)Unber43 wrote i dont know anyone on this planet who would pick the X12 over a GNE bus going to newcastle

I used to use it when I needed to get down to Birtley as the Blyth and Tyne tickets were valid so it was free to use it and would happily let a 21 or 2 go by to use it - it was quicker aswell and you'd always pass the 21 that I'd let go since it stops everywhere.

(02 Dec 2023, 1:26 pm)Dan wrote Surely you don’t actually believe this wasn’t discussed and agreed with Local Authorities and Transport North East prior to implementation?

Heck, the fact that Councillor Gannon was the first to announce it - ahead of the company - tells you that TNE were clearly involved.

The reason for the change to singles and returns is simply in response to customer and colleague feedback this morning, and down to how customers have responded to the offer on day one, thus avoiding putting drivers in a situation of conflict.

Effectively the offer remains the same - albeit now excludes TNE products - as customers can still travel all day for free.

'How customers have responded to the offer on day one'? You're not suggesting that customers would have actively persuaded Go North East not to offer a issue a free ticket, which entitles them to travel on other operators and the Metro?

The offer is completely different now. It's free travel on one operator, as oppose to free multi-modal transport across the region.

This was perhaps a good gesture in theory (and recognising this is very likely a first from an operator), but to significantly shift the goal posts now shows that it's ill-conceived in practice.

What a bunch of utter cowboys.

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(02 Dec 2023, 12:53 pm)mb134 wrote People who live in and around Durham and have Arriva weekly/monthly tickets?

The people who just get on the first bus which comes (given the current £2 singles)?

People who use journey planners such as Google Maps, and the X12 is the next bus at their stop?

All this and, when GNE buses are running, the X12 is pretty reliable. It's also a lot quicker from Durham than the 21 as it doesn't stop everywhere or detour via Arnison.

Add in people with concessionary passes who don't have to be loyal to any bus company.

(02 Dec 2023, 9:42 am)streetdeckfan wrote We were following the X21 and 6 earlier, one was packed, the other not. Can you guess which one?

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I'm on the 13 at the minute and I could've written a short novel on that trip I've just done! Loadings are comparable to the 18 or 99.

(02 Dec 2023, 1:26 pm)Dan wrote Surely you don’t actually believe this wasn’t discussed and agreed with Local Authorities and Transport North East prior to implementation?

Heck, the fact that Councillor Gannon was the first to announce it - ahead of the company - tells you that TNE were clearly involved.

The reason for the change to singles and returns is simply in response to customer and colleague feedback this morning, and down to how customers have responded to the offer on day one, thus avoiding putting drivers in a situation of conflict.

Effectively the offer remains the same - albeit now excludes TNE products - as customers can still travel all day for free.


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Why would the drivers be in conflict with customers? The news story yesterday clearly said TNE Day Tickets could be bought for nothing, so that is the expectation.

Surely the only thing putting drivers in conflict is the company withdrawing the TNE element after it went live. Nice first day back for some of them I bet

(02 Dec 2023, 3:42 pm)Adrian wrote 'How customers have responded to the offer on day one'? You're not suggesting that customers would have actively persuaded Go North East not to offer a issue a free ticket, which entitles them to travel on other operators and the Metro?

The offer is completely different now. It's free travel on one operator, as oppose to free multi-modal transport across the region.

This was perhaps a good gesture in theory (and recognising this is very likely a first from an operator), but to significantly shift the goal posts now shows that it's ill-conceived in practice.

Obviously not. I was referring to the confusion around which tickets could be purchased (or obtained free of charge), resultant delays to boarding times, and some customers simply boarding the bus and sitting down without stating which ticket they were actually wanting. All of which added to conflict on buses this morning, according to the company’s drivers who fed this back to their depot teams, and the company promptly reacted.

The offer remains much the same to the majority of customers (given the majority of tickets operators sell are single, returns and operator-specific day tickets).

This was - and still is - a very good gesture, with one aim to re-build trust in the company and get people back on board, and also to avoid conflict situations for drivers after prolonged strike action (hence the prompt response to drivers’ feedback this morning). We can all understand why some of Go North East’s competitors would be against them doing this, but as customers - for once - let’s simply see this for what it is.

Arguably an even simpler thing to do would have been simply to have a button push for free travel.


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(02 Dec 2023, 4:17 pm)DeltaMan wrote Why would the drivers be in conflict with customers? The news story yesterday clearly said TNE Day Tickets could be bought for nothing, so that is the expectation.

Surely the only thing putting drivers in conflict is the company withdrawing the TNE element after it went live. Nice first day back for some of them I bet

I suppose that's one thing that will impact the management desire for 'productivity'; buses running late due to drivers having to argue the toss with customers, who suddenly realise that they're being demanded a fare for the free day ticket they're expecting...

(02 Dec 2023, 4:21 pm)Dan wrote Obviously not. I was referring to the confusion around which tickets could be purchased (or obtained free of charge), resultant delays to boarding times, and some customers simply boarding the bus and sitting down without stating which ticket they were actually wanting. All of which added to conflict on buses this morning.

The offer remains much the same to the majority of customers (given the majority of tickets operators sell are single, returns and operator-specific day tickets).

This was - and still is - a very good gesture, with one aim to re-build trust in the company and get people back on board, and also to avoid conflict situations for drivers after prolonged strike action. For once let’s simply see this for what it is.


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I'm not sure where the confusion would lie. The original T&Cs listed all your day tickets for free, unless I'm missing something obvious. Would it not be the same process for issuing the free ticket as it is to one that you collect a fare from?

I'd argue by moving the goal posts now, you're actually going to achieve everything that you've quite rightly tried to avoid as a company. It's drivers who are going to get it in the neck when customers are asked for a fare, when they're not expecting to pay for one. Isn't that only going to delay buses more?

(02 Dec 2023, 4:22 pm)Adrian wrote I'd argue by moving the goal posts now, you're actually going to achieve everything that you've quite rightly tried to avoid as a company. It's drivers who are going to get it in the neck when customers are asked for a fare, when they're not expecting to pay for one. Isn't that only going to delay buses more?

You’re right, it could. I suppose it depends how the driver reacts to that situation.

If the driver politely responds “single tickets are free, so just ask your drivers for singles all day” or similar, there’s probably no conflict to be had, as it still represents what most customers would have had with an operator-specific day ticket.

Of course, for those customers that do board without stating which ticket they wanted, the driver can simply issue a free single ticket and not call the customer back.

I dare say this will be a pleasant surprise for most customers as they board, not realising there was free travel in the first place (less than 2000 reactions to the Facebook post pales into insignificance compared to the six figure numbers that Go North East usually sees travel on a daily basis). Indeed, anecdotally, I remember that being the case for £1 evening fares, when that initiative was launched.


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Should be free travel for everyone except for the people moaning and complaining here who have to pay £4

I’m sure if Go North East posted a million quid through every letterbox in the north east some here would find fault

Does anyone see a difference in drivers' attitudes?