(23 Dec 2023, 3:26 pm)DeltaMan wrote Some would say the difference is that Stagecoach aren't using public money to restore something that was previously a commercial service. It is a genuine improvement. 

Whereas in the examples given, it *APPEARS* that Arriva and GNE are wanting to use public money to pay for services which were clearly commercial before they were reduced for staffing reasons.  

It might be allowed by the letter of BSIP. But I don't think it's within the spirit of it, personally.

I’d say the restoration of the Arriva X16 and Go North East X20 services are genuine improvements based on the “current” network.

Local Authorities have strict subsidy control rules and governance policies, so can’t give out the money willy-nilly. They are ultimately responsible for whether a scheme goes ahead or not, and work in partnership with operators to deliver these.

At the same time, Local Authorities are also introducing new services - the 777 is a Northumberland County Council tender (won by Arriva), and Nexus have a similar tender live at the moment (not yet awarded to any operator).

Both combined - with more affordable fares - is a wise use of the BSIP funding.


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(23 Dec 2023, 2:52 pm)Dan wrote Isn’t that the purpose of the Bus Service Improvement Plan?

I didn’t see you make this comment about Stagecoach’s X24/X34, or Arriva’s X16?


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Because there actually useful. What's wrong with the 20 to Langley Park alongside the 20A (of which changes have just been done for it)

If the 20A is withdrawn. We'll gne already wasting the money as mentioned here in changes for November 

Prince Bishops 20 | 20A

In partnership with Nexus and with financial support from the Government’s Bus Service Improvement Plan, these services will be increased to run every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Durham on evenings. Once per hour, these will be numbered as a 20, and once per hour as service 20A.

This means that, on Monday to Saturday evenings, we will be introducing later journeys to Chilton Moor and Rainton Bridge.

(23 Dec 2023, 3:55 pm)Aaron21 wrote Because there actually useful. What's wrong with the 20 to Langley Park alongside the 20A (of which changes have just been done for it)

If the 20A is withdrawn. We'll gne already wasting the money as mentioned here in changes for November 

Prince Bishops 20 | 20A

In partnership with Nexus and with financial support from the Government’s Bus Service Improvement Plan, these services will be increased to run every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Durham on evenings. Once per hour, these will be numbered as a 20, and once per hour as service 20A.

This means that, on Monday to Saturday evenings, we will be introducing later journeys to Chilton Moor and Rainton Bridge.

Out of interest, why do you think a faster bus between Sunderland and Newcastle on Sundays is useful, and a fast bus between Newcastle and Morpeth useful, but not a faster bus between Sunderland and Durham?

What makes those two corridors more important for a fast link than Sunderland to Durham?


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(23 Dec 2023, 4:19 pm)Dan wrote Out of interest, why do you think a faster bus between Sunderland and Newcastle on Sundays is useful, and a fast bus between Newcastle and Morpeth useful, but not a faster bus between Sunderland and Durham?

What makes those two corridors more important for a fast link than Sunderland to Durham?


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If that was the case. Why was the X20 withdrawn in the first place with the 20 extended to Langley & the 20A introduced. If it was to cut cancelled services then that confusing to me. 

A fast service to Newcastle & Morpeth. Have you not been in Haymarket seeing queue stretch far for the X14/X15/X16/X18. Have you not seen the amount of times the line between Newcastle & Sunderland is closed. 

Do the public in Sunderland really miss the X20. Cause passengers loading on the 20/20A seem fine to me to Durham. 

Also do people really need a quick link to Durham from Sunderland. When I rode the X20 to Durham it didn't seem any quicker than the 20. That's just my opinion. But I shall sit and wait the response telling me that the X20 is more reliable or something like that

(16 Dec 2023, 4:02 pm)Storx wrote Tenders for the Q3 and 35 are renewed in March 2024.

So I wanna put this here. If this consultation was a success and the Q3 is cut from Osborne Road. Does this drop the Pvr by 2 buses. If this was the case. With the new Great Park Road opened. Could this now be the chance for the Q3 to go to Kingston Park as I know this was mental a while ago

(23 Dec 2023, 3:55 pm)Aaron21 wrote Because there actually useful. What's wrong with the 20 to Langley Park alongside the 20A (of which changes have just been done for it)

If the 20A is withdrawn. We'll gne already wasting the money as mentioned here in changes for November 

Prince Bishops 20 | 20A

In partnership with Nexus and with financial support from the Government’s Bus Service Improvement Plan, these services will be increased to run every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Durham on evenings. Once per hour, these will be numbered as a 20, and once per hour as service 20A.

This means that, on Monday to Saturday evenings, we will be introducing later journeys to Chilton Moor and Rainton Bridge.

They already run on an evening as 20A

(23 Dec 2023, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote I’d say the restoration of the Arriva X16 and Go North East X20 services are genuine improvements based on the “current” network.

Local Authorities have strict subsidy control rules and strict governance policies, so can’t give out the money willy-nilly. They are ultimately responsible for whether a scheme goes ahead or not, and work in partnership with operators to deliver these.

At the same time, Local Authorities are also introducing new services - the 777 is a Northumberland County Council tender (won by Arriva), and Nexus have a similar tender live at the moment (not yet awarded to any operator).

Both combined - with more affordable fares - is a wise use of the BSIP funding.


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Welcome back Daniel. 

What about the Metrocentre P&R. Is that a wise use?

(23 Dec 2023, 7:24 pm)Andreos1 wrote Welcome back Daniel. 

What about the Metrocentre P&R. Is that a wise use?

Is there going to be a dedicated service, or has it been over-hyped in the media and is merely existing services calling at the coach park after they leave the interchange?


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(23 Dec 2023, 7:51 pm)Dan wrote Is there going to be a dedicated service, or has it been over-hyped in the media and is merely existing services calling at the coach park after they leave the interchange?


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So you're saying they're spaffing all this money up the wall for existing services?!

(23 Dec 2023, 7:51 pm)Dan wrote Is there going to be a dedicated service, or has it been over-hyped in the media and is merely existing services calling at the coach park after they leave the interchange?


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That's possibly the worst case for everyone though? 

P&R punters aren't guaranteed a seat on busy services into town in the morning, and actual GNE passengers might not get a seat on their bus home in the evening as they've been behind P&R users in the queue (all dependent on how well used the site is). 

Obviously it'll add time to all of the services that pass through the MetroCentre too, which I assume will either mean an increase in PVR on all services or reduced layover and thus reduced reliability?

(23 Dec 2023, 8:12 pm)mb134 wrote That's possibly the worst case for everyone though? 

P&R punters aren't guaranteed a seat on busy services into town in the morning, and actual GNE passengers might not get a seat on their bus home in the evening as they've been behind P&R users in the queue (all dependent on how well used the site is). 

Obviously it'll add time to all of the services that pass through the MetroCentre too, which I assume will either mean an increase in PVR on all services or reduced layover and thus reduced reliability?

Genius from the boffins at TNE

Didnt the P+R operate years back. I vaguely remember Solos from metrocentre going across Swing Bridge to Quayside, was it the X67 or M67 or something. A big flop at the time.

Re: park and Ride Newcastle to Metrocentre

Wouldn't this be an excellent time to bring back to life the Service 100 run as it did before except at the metrocentre it stops at the coach park and not in the interchange

Restoring a number that people know especially with car drivers could be the key.

At least if it does go to metrocentre it keeps the customers already on congested transport an opportunity for a seat

(23 Dec 2023, 9:47 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Re: park and Ride Newcastle to Metrocentre

Wouldn't this be an excellent time to bring back to life the Service 100  run as it did before  except at the metrocentre it stops at the coach park and not in the interchange

Restoring a number that people know especially with car drivers could be the key.

At least if it does go to metrocentre it keeps the customers already on congested transport an opportunity for a seat

Nobody seems to actually know the situation with Stagecoach and the numbers of drivers they have. But given the constant stream of messages my sister sends me about Slatyford services disappearing, it doesn't sound good...

(23 Dec 2023, 4:54 pm)Aaron21 wrote So I wanna put this here. If this consultation was a success and the Q3 is cut from Osborne Road. Does this drop the Pvr by 2 buses. If this was the case. With the new Great Park Road opened. Could this now be the chance for the Q3 to go to Kingston Park as I know this was mental a while ago

Honestly not too sure, I'd assume Nexus will just save the money though. There's currently 3 subsidies on the Q3, I believe. One is obviously Osbourne Road (no longer paid), the Wallsend extension but not sure what the third is, Great Park I'd assume. If Nexus want to pay for it, it could happen otherwise I can't see it.

Personally the best thing Nexus could do is redirect the 342 via the Great Park rather than Hazlerigg and no-where, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet tbh. Would offer some handy links for more people. Should be doable without any PVR changes, I'd assume most people from Dudley etc would prefer those links, unless they like going dogging.

(23 Dec 2023, 10:09 pm)Storx wrote Honestly not too sure, I'd assume Nexus will just save the money though. There's currently 3 subsidies on the Q3, I believe. One is obviously Osbourne Road (no longer paid), the Wallsend extension but not sure what the third is, Great Park I'd assume. If Nexus want to pay for it, it could happen otherwise I can't see it.

Personally the best thing Nexus could do is redirect the 342 via the Great Park rather than Hazlerigg and no-where, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet tbh. Would offer some handy links for more people. Should be doable without any PVR changes, I'd assume most people from Dudley etc would prefer those links, unless they like going dogging.

Q3 is a disgraceful service considering it has that many subsidies, never turns up half of the time.

(23 Dec 2023, 10:54 pm)Thomas12 wrote Q3 is a disgraceful service considering it has that many subsidies, never turns up half of the time.

considering it is run by some of the newest buses in the road too!

Wonder if the X20 will be every 30 mins then the 20/20A every 30 mins each so they would combine for a service every 10 mins on certain sections of the route.

Edit: Typo!

(24 Dec 2023, 6:51 pm)Michael wrote Wonder if the X20 will be every 30 mins then the 20/20A every 20 mins each so they would combine for a service every 10 mins on certain sections of the route.

Confused here, you mean them staying both every 30 minutes and combining for 6 BPH?

(24 Dec 2023, 6:59 pm)Storx wrote Confused here, you mean them staying both every 30 minutes and combining for 6 BPH?

Ye sorry, I should of re-read it!

20 - Every 30 minutes

20A - Every 30 minutes

X20 - Every 30 minutes



Not sure on the PVRs, as I take it, the 65 will still be interworking with the 20A?

(23 Dec 2023, 11:18 pm)logidoodah wrote considering it is run by some of the newest buses in the road too!

To which I have seen a few broken down at Regent Centre in recent months, probs ran out of battery.

With regards to the Yutong E10/E12's I'd personally swap the allocations around and have the E12's on the 53/54 as they full and standing at Peak Times and/or runs to two's leaving a massive gap in service, could probably do with a decker in peaks given the frequency of the service/poor reliability.

The Q3 from the times I have used between City Centre and Regent Centre for work is never all that busy so I do think the E10's would be a better suited allocation for the service on this section, haven't done the City Centre to St.Peters Basin/Wallend for a few years now so can't comment on passenger numbers here but I'd imagine with competition from Stagecoach between Walker-Wallsend then more than likely an E10 again would be the better suited allocation.

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(23 Dec 2023, 9:47 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Re: park and Ride Newcastle to Metrocentre

Wouldn't this be an excellent time to bring back to life the Service 100  run as it did before  except at the metrocentre it stops at the coach park and not in the interchange

Restoring a number that people know especially with car drivers could be the key.

At least if it does go to metrocentre it keeps the customers already on congested transport an opportunity for a seat

I'm in agreement here however iirc correctly Go North East are going to be operating the P&R under the existing X50 route which is usually for Newcastle Matchdays.

(24 Dec 2023, 6:51 pm)Michael wrote Wonder if the X20 will be every 30 mins then the 20/20A every 30 mins each so they would combine for a service every 10 mins on certain sections of the route.

Edit: Typo!

Service 20 will be every 15 minutes day time with 2 per hour interworking with service 65 and every hour evenings and Sunday. 
Service 20A running on an evening and Sunday 1 per hour.
Service X20 running every 30 minutes with peak times serving Doxford International.

So will the X20 not be running on evenings & sundays?

(24 Dec 2023, 9:31 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote So will the X20 not be running on evenings & sundays?

Only between Durham and Langley Park as it did last time round.

(24 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm)Retro Nero wrote Service 20 will be every 15 minutes day time with 2 per hour interworking with service 65 and every hour evenings and Sunday. 

Service 20A running on an evening and Sunday 1 per hour.

Service X20 running every 30 minutes with peak times serving Doxford International.

Shame the 20A is dropped again during the day, I take it, the 20 or X20 will be diverted that way during the day?

Edit:

Will X20 be timed between the 20 to make it every 7 mins between Park Lane and Barnes Park for example.

(24 Dec 2023, 9:54 pm)Michael wrote Shame the 20A is dropped again during the day, I take it, the 20 or X20 will be diverted that way during the day?

Edit:

Will X20 be timed between the 20 to make it every 7 mins between Park Lane and Barnes Park for example.

X20 will serve Dairy Lane & Rainton Bridge.

(24 Dec 2023, 10:08 pm)Retro Nero wrote X20 will serve Dairy Lane & Rainton Bridge.

Thanks for the info.

(23 Dec 2023, 10:09 pm)Storx wrote Honestly not too sure, I'd assume Nexus will just save the money though. There's currently 3 subsidies on the Q3, I believe. One is obviously Osbourne Road (no longer paid), the Wallsend extension but not sure what the third is, Great Park I'd assume. If Nexus want to pay for it, it could happen otherwise I can't see it.

Personally the best thing Nexus could do is redirect the 342 via the Great Park rather than Hazlerigg and no-where, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet tbh. Would offer some handy links for more people. Should be doable without any PVR changes, I'd assume most people from Dudley etc would prefer those links, unless they like going dogging.

WOOOOOHA!!!

(23 Dec 2023, 3:26 pm)DeltaMan wrote Some would say the difference is that Stagecoach aren't using public money to restore something that was previously a commercial service. It is a genuine improvement. 

Whereas in the examples given, it *APPEARS* that Arriva and GNE are wanting to use public money to pay for services which were clearly commercial before they were reduced for staffing reasons.  

It might be allowed by the letter of BSIP. But I don't think it's within the spirit of it, personally.

It’s not up to the operators to decide which services are funded by the BSIP - it’s up to the local authorities to decide how the money is spent.

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(22 Dec 2023, 5:52 pm)L469 YVK wrote Realistically, branding needs to go IMO. Serves no purpose especially in the current climate.

Only routes that really need branded........

- XLines - Generic - Express buses across the North East
X10, X21, X30, X31

- CityLink
21, 56

- CoastCityLinks (in conjunction with Arriva)
306, 307, 308, 309

- CityConnect
Q3, 53, 54

Rest can go IMO including the X45 going back to 45 and 47 becoming the 46.

I thought that branding had been significantly reduced already, I haven’t seen many repaints other than in 2019 fleet livery for a while.

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(23 Dec 2023, 2:26 pm)Aaron21 wrote Can't wait to read "With funding from Nexus & The BSIP" we will be bringing back the X20.

What about Durham County Council? 

If it’s BSIP funding they will surely be involved.

Wonder if some of the BSIP funding might get used for the Derwentside to Newcastle services?

- X46/46 re-instated
- X30/X31 back to every 15 or 20 minutes
- X70 re-introduced

If the Rowlands Gill to Newcastle corridor was reduced back to single decks, could go:
- 45 (every 20 / 40 minutes)
- 46 (hourly)
- 47 (every 20 minutes with hourly extension to Consett)