(10 Feb 2024, 10:07 pm)Storx wrote Must admit, these baffle me. I know London has it's dodgy areas but I assume that they're not there because there was problems with needles and people injecting on buses which is usually why blue light is used. 

I haven't been on them, but blue light in general is unpleasant, infact that colour blue in general is which GNE seemed to love in the past which I'd generally link to water and ice - two things I don't particular want on a bus.

My first thoughts when I saw the blue lights. 
Sure it's the same shade blue that Nexus installed in the toilets Park Lane. For the exact same reason.

(10 Feb 2024, 10:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote My first thoughts when I saw the blue lights. 
Sure it's the same shade blue that Nexus installed in the toilets Park Lane. For the exact same reason.

Sure it is, I know the shopping centre in the centre of Hartlepool has them aswell, thought it was a strange place for them as it's usually for the likes of bus stations etc.

Btw for anyone who is wondering why blue light, if you shine in on your veins and arteries they both go the same colour so you can't tell where to inject - useless facts for a Saturday night.

It seems there is a huge issue with the E400's and to an extent the G2's from London on the slightest incline, wonder if this might just be a teething issue similar to when 5391-4 went onto the 65 when was it re-branded and re-numbered when they would last hours in service and all got new engines

(10 Feb 2024, 10:07 pm)Storx wrote Must admit, these baffle me. I know London has it's dodgy areas but I assume that they're not there because there was problems with needles and people injecting on buses which is usually why blue light is used.

I haven't been on them, but blue light in general is unpleasant, infact that colour blue in general is which GNE seemed to love in the past which I'd generally link to water and ice - two things I don't particular want on a bus.

They are rather nasty inside IMHO, along the lines of when Arriva would bring up busses from London and not refurbish them in the past.

(10 Feb 2024, 11:53 pm)solsburian wrote They are rather nasty inside IMHO, along the lines of when Arriva would bring up busses from London and not refurbish them in the past.

The blue lights aren't the best , but I travelled on 6217 on X45 last Sunday and found it to be a pleasant ride. Good turn of speed and very few rattles, much less than an E400MMC!

(11 Feb 2024, 12:25 am)Tiger5105 wrote The blue lights aren't the best , but I travelled on 6217 on X45 last Sunday and found it to be a pleasant ride. Good turn of speed and very few rattles, much less than an E400MMC!

I guess every bus is different. The one I rode on service 21 was rather lethargic, and while the interior relatively clean, it had clearly seen better days and was uncomfortable to ride. I get that a parent company will want to maximise the viable operational life and usefulness of their assets, and in the past GNE have refurbished incoming ex-London busses in the past, but the current crop certainly seem sub-par. As others have said, perhaps the dumping of an old fleet up here without a significant refurbishment is a sign of an impending sale, time will tell.

Older busses are certainly more solid than newer ones, but the same apples to virtually everything else as well.

(10 Feb 2024, 3:43 pm)mb134 wrote A Facebook post on the North East Bus Enthusiasts page indicated that the same is happening with the X10 MMCs too, or at least 6353. If it is to be believed, then they clear the error then send it out again and it just continues to come up. 

It seems similar to Arriva Redcar, where the deckers on the X93 were evidently sent out last summer without having issues rectified as they constantly broke down on consecutive days. Essentially a sign of engineering either not taking defects seriously, or trying to cut corners.

Wouldn't be issues to this extent if GNE had a single uniformed fleet operating both the X10 & X21 like what Ashington have for the X14/X15/X18/X20 & X21/X22.

Surely any inefficiencies lost in Derwentside would be made up by reduced lost mileage or recoveries!

Or alternatively. So there's 20x E400MMC.....
- 6336-37 - Consett Spares
- 6338-45 - X30/X31 & X45
- 6346-55 - X10/X21
- 6102 - X10/X21
- 6377 - X10/X21

Then for the StreetDecks......
- 6356-60 - X71/X72
- 6361 - Consett Spare
- 6362-63 - Riverside Spares (no use on X10)

So Derwentside unchanged other than perhaps StreetDecks covering the X71 & X72. Still a suitable spare ratio to cover the X30/X31 & X45.

Yes not 100% perfect either having the 6-Cylinder StreetDeck and a B9TL making up the numbers on the X10 & X21 but a lot better than at current. Any VOR's, simply drop whatever is going onto the X21 then prioritise allocating E400MMC on the X10.

(11 Feb 2024, 5:43 am)L469 YVK wrote Wouldn't be issues to this extent if GNE had a single uniformed fleet operating both the X10 & X21 like what Ashington have for the X14/X15/X18/X20 & X21/X22.

Surely any inefficiencies lost in Derwentside would be made up by reduced lost mileage or recoveries!

Or alternatively. So there's 20x E400MMC.....
- 6336-37 - Consett Spares
- 6338-45 - X30/X31 & X45
- 6346-55 - X10/X21
- 6102 - X10/X21
- 6377 - X10/X21

Then for the StreetDecks......
- 6356-60 - X71/X72
- 6361 - Consett Spare
- 6362-63 - Riverside Spares (no use on X10)

So Derwentside unchanged other than perhaps StreetDecks covering the X71 & X72. Still a suitable spare ratio to cover the X30/X31 & X45.

Yes not 100% perfect either having the 6-Cylinder StreetDeck and a B9TL making up the numbers on the X10 & X21 but a lot better than at current. Any VOR's, simply drop whatever is going onto the X21 then prioritise allocating E400MMC on the X10.

Or…

Wouldn’t be issues to this extent if the buses were fixed instead of a fault just being cleared.

Short-term pain for long-term gain.


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(10 Feb 2024, 11:53 pm)solsburian wrote They are rather nasty inside IMHO, along the lines of when Arriva would bring up busses from London and not refurbish them in the past.

Oh, some of them were grim especially in the 00's. The Northern Counties Scania's which were sent up for the 308 were horrid things with leg room for a dwarf and the bus seat buses on a very bizarre incline as understatement. Miles apart from our native examples ignoring the serious body flaws. 

Mind the ex Midland Fox ones were the worst - https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/6358669453

Sir we can't find any seat colours that type, well this one has some red in it just throw that on springs to mind. I always wondered where they got them all from.

(11 Feb 2024, 5:43 am)L469 YVK wrote Wouldn't be issues to this extent if GNE had a single uniformed fleet operating both the X10 & X21 like what Ashington have for the X14/X15/X18/X20 & X21/X22.

The problem doesn't appear to be because of deficiencies with the vehicles, rather how they're being looked after, so this would make no difference in my view. 

As Dan has said above, if the engineering teams (for whatever reason) are massively prioritising short term over long term then you're always going to get into this position - even if they were running some of those Olympians you like...

(11 Feb 2024, 8:14 am)Storx wrote Oh, some of them were grim especially in the 00's. The Northern Counties Scania's which were sent up for the 308 were horrid things with leg room for a dwarf and the bus seat buses on a very bizarre incline as understatement. Miles apart from our native examples ignoring the serious body flaws. 

Mind the ex Midland Fox ones were the worst - https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/6358669453

Sir we can't find any seat colours that type, well this one has some red in it just throw that on springs to mind. I always wondered where they got them all from.

I think the ex MTL Leyland Olympians that displaced the M37* FTY Palatines when they eventually moved to Ashington & Alnwick were worse!

---

(11 Feb 2024, 6:41 am)Dan wrote Or…

Wouldn’t be issues to this extent if the buses were fixed instead of a fault just being cleared.

Short-term pain for long-term gain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it's been a historial issue with the X21.

- Ex-london B7TL's - although did the job given their age.

- StreetDeck Gen 1's - Constantly off the road.

- B5TL's that got hammered on the X9 & X10.

Arriva Northumbria use E400MMC on their Alnwick & Ashington 'X' routes. Stagecoach use E400MMC on the 685.

(11 Feb 2024, 12:59 pm)L469 YVK wrote But it's been a historial issue with the X21.

- Ex-london B7TL's - although did the job given their age.

- StreetDeck Gen 1's - Constantly off the road.

- B5TL's that got hammered on the X9 & X10.

Arriva Northumbria use E400MMC on their Alnwick & Ashington 'X' routes. Stagecoach use E400MMC on the 685.

I dare say that if you spoke to engineers at Consett, they’d tell you that E400MMCs aren’t the bees knees. No modern bus is really built for heavy endurance work.

The X21 in all honesty isn’t that bad, and the latest generation StreetDecks are fine on there (as indeed were the B5s).


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(11 Feb 2024, 6:41 am)Dan wrote Or…

Wouldn’t be issues to this extent if the buses were fixed instead of a fault just being cleared.

Short-term pain for long-term gain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed, Seems to me this is wider issue that isn't just affecting the Streetdecks, it's affecting all vehicle types at Riverside if the engineers are simply doing the above to get Buses back on the road faster.

Higher ups should really be pulling the engineer in question who is signing these off each time to see why they are doing so without fixing the fault and potentially putting colleagues at risk depending on what the fault is, appreciate they may have fixed it previously but if it's a reoccurring fault then it should be investigated further.

(11 Feb 2024, 2:30 pm)Malarkey wrote Agreed, Seems to me this is wider issue that isn't just affecting the Streetdecks, it's affecting all vehicle types at Riverside if the engineers are simply doing the above to get Buses back on the road faster.

Higher ups should really be pulling the engineer in question who is signing these off each time to see why they are doing so without fixing the fault and potentially putting colleagues at risk depending on what the fault is, appreciate they may have fixed it previously but if it's a reoccurring fault then it should be investigated further.

Let me be clear: this isn’t a depot or even company-specific issue. It is an industry-wide issue.

Whilst most operators have now overcome the issues they faced with regards to the shortage of bus drivers, there is still a massive labour shortage in engineering.

It goes without saying that it is a lot more difficult to train an engineer than it is a bus driver. That is not me slamming bus drivers, but it takes years to qualify as an engineer in a specific trade. That is a fact.

This means that the remaining engineers are under extreme pressure, and Engineering Managers and Supervisors are likely to be making the call to undertake quick fixes, rather than get to the root cause of the issues.

There probably needs to be a culture reset in the industry that having enough buses to meet morning runout but one or more of those buses then breaking down is just as bad as not having enough buses in the first place. In my view it is even worse, due to the extra time and resource it takes to respond to the breakdown.


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(11 Feb 2024, 2:00 pm)Dan wrote I dare say that if you spoke to engineers at Consett, they’d tell you that E400MMCs aren’t the bees knees. No modern bus is really built for heavy endurance work.

The X21 in all honesty isn’t that bad, and the latest generation StreetDecks are fine on there (as indeed were the B5s).


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Well why do Arriva Northumbria use them on the X14/X15/X18/X20 and Stagecoach use them on the 685? Fair enough, no modern decker really comes close to a Leyland Olympian, Volvo Olympian or a DAF/VDL Lowlander for long distance work.

The E400 classics (although kept on for a bit too long) handled the X14/X15/X18/X20 fairly well and the 17 plate Sapphires have done okay too working practically all of Ashington's 'X' routes.

The only bad E400's that Arriva had were any of 7501-13 that Blyth or Redcar engineering dealt with in their earlier days!

If GNE moved 6346-51 (and 6102) to Riverside, it would give......
- X10 - 3x E400MMC + 1 6-cyl StreetDeck
- X21 - 7x E400MMC + 1x B9TL
- Spares - 2x StreetDeck (6362-63) - used on X21 with any available E400MMC in lieu allocated or swapped onto the X10

As for Consett, they'd still have 3x Euro 6 spare deckers covering a PVR of 19x although 1x of them would be a StreetDeck as opposed to an E400MMC.

(11 Feb 2024, 3:29 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well why do Arriva Northumbria use them on the X14/X15/X18/X20 and Stagecoach use them on the 685? Fair enough, no modern decker really comes close to a Leyland Olympian, Volvo Olympian or a DAF/VDL Lowlander for long distance work.

Because, if we're honest, what else is there? Out of the current selection on the market they're probably the best option. 

Also I could be wrong, but I think some of the main issues with the MMCs are electrical rather than mechanical.

FWIW, I think they're very good buses, but it is clear they have some issues.

(11 Feb 2024, 3:51 pm)mb134 wrote Because, if we're honest, what else is there? Out of the current selection on the market they're probably the best option. 

Also I could be wrong, but I think some of the main issues with the MMCs are electrical rather than mechanical.

FWIW, I think they're very good buses, but it is clear they have some issues.

Wrightbus are still offering the Daimler OM936 7.7L variation of the Wright Streetdeck however other than GNE's order of 6377 and an order from Bus Vannin there hasn't been any other orders for it in the UK, The other one ordered was a Demo for KMB in China which has since returned to the UK and is now with Ensignbus.

I personally think Go North East made a mistake in 2019/2020 in ordering E400MMC's/OM934 Streetdecks for the X-Lines Services, they should've ordered more of OM936 Streetdecks despite it being an unproven type at the time.

(11 Feb 2024, 4:39 pm)Malarkey wrote Wrightbus are still offering the Daimler OM936 7.7L variation of the Wright Streetdeck however other than GNE's order of 6377 and an order from Bus Vannin there hasn't been any other orders for it in the UK, The other one ordered was a Demo for KMB in China which has since returned to the UK and is now with Ensignbus.

I personally think Go North East made a mistake in 2019/2020 in ordering E400MMC's/OM934 Streetdecks for the X-Lines Services, they should've ordered more of OM936 Streetdecks despite it being an unproven type at the time.

Well before COVID, the plan was to eventually order either Scania N250UDs E400MMC or OM936 StreetDecks for the X9/X10.

For the majority of the 'X' routes, they're pretty well suited but the X21 needs something more heavyweight like an E400MMC.

They'd be better ordering 12 single deckers for the X21 imo and upping it to every 20 minutes.

If they worked with the 6, they'd offer a nice clean 10 minute service between Bishop and Durham rather than the absolutely crap 20, 10, 10, 20, 0 frequency they offer right now. Absolutely shocking timetabling having 2 buses following each other for 60 minutes and a complete waste of resources. Similar for the 85 should be scrapped and the 6 extended to Barnard Castle considering yet again they follow each other to Cockfield, that should be funded by BSIP as it would be actually be useful. There should be an hourly link between Barnard Castle and Durham imo.

In turn they could scrap the Brandon extension since the 21 has bad enough time delays as it is, getting it away from Neville's Cross would help it massively.

MCV seems like a quality bus manufactuer atm, especially there single deckers.

But imo with the X21, I would upp it to every 15 mins and have it 30 mins to West Aukland and every 30 mins to Brandon (or perhaps Darlington as a very limited express and re-numbered X23 and literally stops at Newcastle, Gateshead, Durham, express to Darlington) and cut the 21 off at Durham

X21 upped to every 15 minutes, you're living in a dream world if you think that'll ever happen

(11 Feb 2024, 8:01 pm)Unber43 wrote MCV seems like a quality bus manufactuer atm, especially there single deckers.

But imo with the X21, I would upp it to every 15 mins and have it 30 mins to West Aukland and every 30 mins to Brandon (or perhaps Darlington as a very limited express and re-numbered X23 and literally stops at Newcastle, Gateshead, Durham, express to Darlington) and cut the 21 off at Durham

It would be a flop if it didn't stop at Chester le Street or New College.

It may be a rose tinted glass I’m looking through but I don’t recall as many issues when Chester ran the service. Similar with the Angel (aside the hybrids which was seemingly beyond control)

I can’t see how a policy of buying cheaper intra company stock from London that can barely hit 30mph and deploying them to intensive service work can possibly be helping either mind.

(11 Feb 2024, 8:47 pm)V514DFT wrote X21 upped to every 15 minutes, you're living in a dream world if you think that'll ever happen

It would only be between Newcastle and Durham, then it would go on to somewhere else (perhaps Brandon and curtail the 21 there and install charging and give the buses 30 mins there to recharge)

(11 Feb 2024, 9:42 pm)Ambassador wrote It may be a rose tinted glass I’m looking through but I don’t recall as many issues when Chester ran the service. Similar with the Angel (aside the hybrids which was seemingly beyond control)

I can’t see how a policy of buying cheaper intra company stock from London that can barely hit 30mph and deploying them to intensive service work can possibly be helping either mind.

Probably because the depot is miles away so can't easily be regulated. Imo not building the depot at Drum Ind. Estate was a big mistake, would help things massively and it wouldn't surprise me if it paid for itself in a few years anyway considering you would've had:

• Reduced costs from staffing staff running dead runs to Chester every morning / evening
  
• Closure of Washington depot and costs associated to a crumbling depot
  
• Most routes in 5 minute taxi distance from it, or a short drive so drivers can have their reliefs there; thus the Washington bus station problem solved (short taxi from Shiney Row for 4 and X1)
  
• The sale cost from both Washington and Chester Le Street, where did this money go?
  
• No dispute over closing the depot from CLS drivers.
  

Seems a right short term decision which has caused a whole load of problems. Could've even opened a new paint shop and whatever else is at Saltmeadows and shut that in the process aswell, saving even more money and having a new base for it.

Chester depot land still for sale at 1.95m so doubt they’re seeing much benefit

Agree on Drum. It was perfect, access to key operating areas and at the time GNE allegedly had a site reserved, incredibly low priced.

(11 Feb 2024, 9:42 pm)Ambassador wrote It may be a rose tinted glass I’m looking through but I don’t recall as many issues when Chester ran the service. Similar with the Angel (aside the hybrids which was seemingly beyond control)

I can’t see how a policy of buying cheaper intra company stock from London that can barely hit 30mph and deploying them to intensive service work can possibly be helping either mind.

I remember issues when Chester had it. 
Particularly on a Sunday when the 21a ran to Peterlee. 

Grim wasn't a word good enough to describe it or the waits due to the inevitable gaps in service.

The worst experience was waiting around Houghton for a northbound 21a.
I saw the southbound, knew the northbound was due and waited. And waited.
Then eventually got on the vehicle I saw heading to Peterlee. After it had got to Peterlee, turned around and got back to Houghton on it's return journey to Newcastle.

(11 Feb 2024, 8:47 pm)V514DFT wrote X21 upped to every 15 minutes, you're living in a dream world if you think that'll ever happen

It did happen pre COVID, but I don't think it was particularly successful, hard to really tell given how limited of a time frame it ran in and world is a different place now.

(11 Feb 2024, 6:46 pm)Storx wrote They'd be better ordering 12 single deckers for the X21 imo and upping it to every 20 minutes.

If they worked with the 6, they'd offer a nice clean 10 minute service between Bishop and Durham rather than the absolutely crap 20, 10, 10, 20, 0 frequency they offer right now. Absolutely shocking timetabling having 2 buses following each other for 60 minutes and a complete waste of resources. Similar for the 85 should be scrapped and the 6 extended to Barnard Castle considering yet again they follow each other to Cockfield, that should be funded by BSIP as it would be actually be useful. There should be an hourly link between Barnard Castle and Durham imo.

In turn they could scrap the Brandon extension since the 21 has bad enough time delays as it is, getting it away from Neville's Cross would help it massively.

Doesn't really matter what you'd do with the X21 South of Durham given how bad the 6 can be for keeping to time quite often, I have often thought about the 6 doing Barney all day but knowing what the 6 is like is off putting, would also make timetabling the other Teesdale routes difficult and likely wouldn't likely save much resources, just a pity that while the 6 & 85 currently run 25-35 mins apart Bishop bound, they're very closely times together Cockfield bound, 85 also serves Evenwood Gate rather than running along Copeland Road to reach Evenwood.

(12 Feb 2024, 2:02 pm)Jimmi wrote Doesn't really matter what you'd do with the X21 South of Durham given how bad the 6 can be for keeping to time quite often, I have often thought about the 6 doing Barney all day but knowing what the 6 is like is off putting, would also make timetabling the other Teesdale routes difficult and likely wouldn't likely save much resources, just a pity that while the 6 & 85 currently run 25-35 mins apart Bishop bound, they're very closely times together Cockfield bound, 85 also serves Evenwood Gate rather than running along Copeland Road to reach Evenwood.

Yeah some fair points about the unreliablity, it's a strange timetable I know that, just noticed it sits around for 20 minutes at Cockfield, would think it would make more sense to spread that time across the route in general.

For the 6 tbf, it was more about giving Barnard Castle and Staindrop the Durham links direct rather than saving resources. Very poor links from down there heading North with going on a tour around Darlington.

Bishop is definitely an area though that deserves some of the BSIP money, places has turned into a right mess since both operators shut their depots there so it's just operationally miles away from anything. If they ever did do franchising, I'd love to see Weardale go for part of the pie down there considering it's only company with a depot and they always come across as a good little operator.

What is the actual issue with the Angel Streetdecks? The allocation of the Angels to the 51/2/93/94 seems deliberate now to keep them vaguely near Rvierside.

Whilst I trundle through low fell at a top speed of 25mph, my leg propped on that weird box on the upper left side deck of the ex London tat, cursing Wright and Riverside under my breath