(16 Mar 2024, 8:28 am)F114TML wrote That second bus would still likely run late, as it'd then be picking up two bus loads of people between newcastle and washington, likely with the driver getting a nice earful at every stop too.

Still better than bunny hopping, not forgetting the 'express' element from Newcastle to Washington, compensating for late running.

The previous bus wouldn't pick up two bus loads to an extent the balance would be equal.

What we possibly need through the BSIP money Is "funded" hourly express service Newcastle Gateshead Heworth Metro & Washington Galleries only

And similar scenario to assist buses getting back on track

This express service runs hourly however if there is late running of services similar to above where 2/3 buses are stuck together to push buses off to run an "extra service" of this express type

Passengers at Eldon Square can be told (via driver announcement to let to pass the message down the queue) like Chinese whispers) this bus stops only at these three stops your ticket for onward journey would be valid on a specific connecting bus of the X1 or stay on this bus for all stops to XYZ however there is a 14 min wait at the galleries but you can board the bus in front with your ticket.

All the driver would have to do is issue a ticket on the ticket machine "permit to transfer" a new special ticket to pass to a connecting service

A destination screen perhaps saying Extra bus

There needs to be some sort of regulation, such as if an X1 is 15 mins late (from Eldon Square) it will run in serivce to Washington Galleries then go out of service for the rest of the journey (unless its the last bus/no bus for a while), or say from Peterlee it will run in service to Houghton then commence Not In Serivce to a point where hopefully it might make up some time to get back on schedule by Washington, if not Wrekenton

(19 Mar 2024, 12:03 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote The previous bus wouldn't pick up two bus loads to an extent the balance would be equal.

What we possibly need through the BSIP money Is "funded" hourly express service Newcastle Gateshead  Heworth Metro & Washington Galleries only

And similar scenario to assist buses getting back on track

This express service runs hourly however if there is late running of services similar to above where 2/3 buses are stuck together to push buses off to run an "extra service" of this express type

Passengers at Eldon Square can be told (via driver announcement to let to pass the message down the queue) like Chinese whispers) this bus stops only at these three stops your ticket for onward journey would be valid on a specific connecting bus of the X1 or stay on this bus for all stops to XYZ however there is a 14 min wait at the galleries but you can board the bus in front with your ticket.

All the driver would have to do is issue a ticket on the ticket machine "permit to transfer" a new special ticket to pass to a connecting  service

A destination screen perhaps saying Extra bus

Disagree strongly personally with an express via Heworth. There's an Metro stop there why duplicate the journey. 

How many express buses does Washington Galleries need considering the vast majority of Washington can't get to Newcastle with changing to another bus which is a chore as an understatement. 

What would be better imo is a frequent express loop around Washington similar to the X63 in Killingworth so the vast majority of people can get to Newcastle outside their front door. 

It's bonkers there isn't already, you could make a similar case for a similar bus towards Sunderland aswell utilising the 2/2A

(19 Mar 2024, 10:54 am)Storx wrote Disagree strongly personally with an express via Heworth. There's an Metro stop there why duplicate the journey. 

How many express buses does Washington Galleries need considering the vast majority of Washington can't get to Newcastle with changing to another bus which is a chore as an understatement. 

What would be better imo is a frequent express loop around Washington similar to the X63 in Killingworth so the vast majority of people can get to Newcastle outside their front door.  

It's bonkers there isn't already, you could make a similar case for a similar bus towards Sunderland aswell utilising the 2/2A

There was one (X85) which off memory, was peak-time only.
Sure it was the current X1 route to Springwell and from there, worked to the Galleries via Blackfell.

I've had a look on here https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/item.php?id=2108 and it seems to be different to the X85 I remember. Although this would have been a year or two after I used it (or tried to - certain drivers seemed keen to behave in a way that would see it removed from the timetable - after all, it wouldn't survive if it sailed past people at stops...).

Edit: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/item.php?id=2084 it was the X86 I remembered as peak only via Blackfell.

(16 Mar 2024, 8:28 am)F114TML wrote That second bus would still likely run late, as it'd then be picking up two bus loads of people between newcastle and washington, likely with the driver getting a nice earful at every stop too.

I really don't think that'd be the case. At that time of the evening, the X1 is very much a 'drop-off' service between Gateshead and Houghton, and it only serves a handful of stops anyway. 

As much as I have sympathy for drivers getting an earful from customers, I don't think it's a good enough reason to avoid taking action to get a bus back running on time. 

This was just a single example too. There's plenty of times that we've seen extremely late 21s or 56s going into Newcastle, instead of transferring them onto the one behind and turning at Gateshead. Doing that saves the bus about 20 minutes, and is usually all it needs to get back on time. 

(19 Mar 2024, 12:03 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote The previous bus wouldn't pick up two bus loads to an extent the balance would be equal.

What we possibly need through the BSIP money Is "funded" hourly express service Newcastle Gateshead  Heworth Metro & Washington Galleries only

And similar scenario to assist buses getting back on track

This express service runs hourly however if there is late running of services similar to above where 2/3 buses are stuck together to push buses off to run an "extra service" of this express type

Passengers at Eldon Square can be told (via driver announcement to let to pass the message down the queue) like Chinese whispers) this bus stops only at these three stops your ticket for onward journey would be valid on a specific connecting bus of the X1 or stay on this bus for all stops to XYZ however there is a 14 min wait at the galleries but you can board the bus in front with your ticket.

All the driver would have to do is issue a ticket on the ticket machine "permit to transfer" a new special ticket to pass to a connecting  service

A destination screen perhaps saying Extra bus

(19 Mar 2024, 10:54 am)Storx wrote Disagree strongly personally with an express via Heworth. There's an Metro stop there why duplicate the journey. 

How many express buses does Washington Galleries need considering the vast majority of Washington can't get to Newcastle with changing to another bus which is a chore as an understatement. 

What would be better imo is a frequent express loop around Washington similar to the X63 in Killingworth so the vast majority of people can get to Newcastle outside their front door. 

It's bonkers there isn't already, you could make a similar case for a similar bus towards Sunderland aswell utilising the 2/2A

I think the X1 needs to go back to every 10 (or even 12) minutes, that's the problem. I don't think BSIP money should be funding that, when most buses between Newcastle and Washington are packed.

If you're going to use BSIP money to develop an express, then it should be a Washington Galleries to Heworth express. Concord to there isn't too bad, as it's around a 17 minute journey time, but the Galleries acts as a hub to other services feeding it. Running non-stop, you'd probably be able to do the journey in 15 minutes.

The spokes feeding it (generally the 8/82/84/85) would have a maximum journey of about 12 minutes before either reaching the Galleries or Concord for an (X4*)/4, so if you managed your connections correctly, you'd be laughing.

I'd actually take the Ayton part from the 50 and add it to that, and you should still be able to run a half hourly service with 2 buses.

(19 Mar 2024, 1:15 pm)Adrian wrote I really don't think that'd be the case. At that time of the evening, the X1 is very much a 'drop-off' service between Gateshead and Houghton, and it only serves a handful of stops anyway. 

As much as I have sympathy for drivers getting an earful from customers, I don't think it's a good enough reason to avoid taking action to get a bus back running on time. 

This was just a single example too. There's plenty of times that we've seen extremely late 21s or 56s going into Newcastle, instead of transferring them onto the one behind and turning at Gateshead. Doing that saves the bus about 20 minutes, and is usually all it needs to get back on time. 


I think the X1 needs to go back to every 10 (or even 12) minutes, that's the problem. I don't think BSIP money should be funding that, when most buses between Newcastle and Washington are packed.

If you're going to use BSIP money to develop an express, then it should be a Washington Galleries to Heworth express. Concord to there isn't too bad, as it's around a 17 minute journey time, but the Galleries acts as a hub to other services feeding it. Running non-stop, you'd probably be able to do the journey in 15 minutes.

The spokes feeding it (generally the 8/82/84/85) would have a maximum journey of about 12 minutes before either reaching the Galleries or Concord for an (X4*)/4, so if you managed your connections correctly, you'd be laughing.

I'd actually take the Ayton part from the 50 and add it to that, and you should still be able to run a half hourly service with 2 buses.

What should actually be done is to create an 82X instead, running the old 82A route between The Galleries and Birtley then non stop from the Coach & Horses to Clayton Street via the A1 & A184.

(19 Mar 2024, 12:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote There was one (X85) which off memory, was peak-time only.
Sure it was the current X1 route to Springwell and from there, worked to the Galleries via Blackfell.

I've had a look on here https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/item.php?id=2108 and it seems to be different to the X85 I remember. Although this would have been a year or two after I used it (or tried to - certain drivers seemed keen to behave in a way that would see it removed from the timetable - after all, it wouldn't survive if it sailed past people at stops...).

Edit: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/item.php?id=2084 it was the X86 I remembered as peak only via Blackfell.

Must admit, can't remember those ones, seem rather infrequent though so no surprise they didn't do well. Hourly bus services are completely useless unless you live in the outback of nowhere.

(19 Mar 2024, 1:15 pm)Adrian wrote I think the X1 needs to go back to every 10 (or even 12) minutes, that's the problem. I don't think BSIP money should be funding that, when most buses between Newcastle and Washington are packed.

If you're going to use BSIP money to develop an express, then it should be a Washington Galleries to Heworth express. Concord to there isn't too bad, as it's around a 17 minute journey time, but the Galleries acts as a hub to other services feeding it. Running non-stop, you'd probably be able to do the journey in 15 minutes.

The spokes feeding it (generally the 8/82/84/85) would have a maximum journey of about 12 minutes before either reaching the Galleries or Concord for an (X4*)/4, so if you managed your connections correctly, you'd be laughing.

I'd actually take the Ayton part from the 50 and add it to that, and you should still be able to run a half hourly service with 2 buses.

Agreed that they shouldn't be funding an express.

Personally, if I was going to suggest something, I'd look at moving the BSIP money off the 56 and creating new services between Washington and Newcastle. One idea I'd have would be to cut the 84/85 in half at the A182, additionally serving Ayton Road and Cambrian Road with the 50 instead serving Raby Road and send them to Newcastle. All movements can still be made around Washington, even known it's not a loop anyway as it terminates at Concord, anyway.

Drop them down to every 30 minutes each, and you could combine the 84/85 with the 56 at Springwell and you'd create a bus every 7.5 minutes along a very busy corridor. The 56 is only 5 minutes longer than the X1 between those points anyway.

It's arguably better than increasing the X1 zooming by people at bus stops and those not being very busy once you get to the other extremes.

The new 84/85 would also have the benefit of Washington being at the far end of the route so you'd have a flow in both directions.

(19 Mar 2024, 5:59 pm)Storx wrote Must admit, can't remember those ones, seem rather infrequent though so no surprise they didn't do well. Hourly bus services are completely useless unless you live in the outback of nowhere.



Agreed that they shouldn't be funding an express.

Personally, if I was going to suggest something, I'd look at moving the BSIP money off the 56 and creating new services between Washington and Newcastle. One idea I'd have would be to cut the 84/85 in half at the A182, additionally serving Ayton Road and Cambrian Road with the 50 instead serving Raby Road and send them to Newcastle. All movements can still be made around Washington, even known it's not a loop anyway as it terminates at Concord, anyway.

Drop them down to every 30 minutes each, and you could combine the 84/85 with the 56 at Springwell and you'd create a bus every 7.5 minutes along a very busy corridor. The 56 is only 5 minutes longer than the X1 between those points anyway.

It's arguably better than increasing the X1 zooming by people at bus stops and those not being very busy once you get to the other extremes.

The new 84/85 would also have the benefit of Washington being at the far end of the route so you'd have a flow in both directions.

Could you bring the 56A back, or increase the 25 to half hourly and extend that to Washington as a 25A.

(19 Mar 2024, 6:11 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Could you bring the 56A back, or increase the 25 to half hourly and extend that to Washington as a 25A.

Not too sure the 56A would make too much sense on it's own.

Personally with the Birtley mess as I like to call it, I'd do.

24: Newcastle - Low Fell - Harlow Green - Wrekenton - Lansdown Road - Birtley - 82 to Barmston
25: Newcastle - QE Hospital - Wrekenton - Portobello - Chester Le Street - Langley Park

It's a complete mess right now imo with the duplicating of the 28/82 between the QE and Birtley.

(19 Mar 2024, 6:32 pm)Storx wrote Not too sure the 56A would make too much sense on it's own.

Personally with the Birtley mess as I like to call it, I'd do.

24: Newcastle - Low Fell - Harlow Green - Wrekenton - Lansdown Road - Birtley - 82 to Barmston
25: Newcastle - QE Hospital - Wrekenton - Portobello - Chester Le Street - Langley Park

It's a complete mess right now imo with the duplicating of the 28/82 between the QE and Birtley.

What would the timings be on these, also could something be merged with the TB14

(19 Mar 2024, 7:10 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote What would the timings be on these, also could something be merged with the TB14

Errrm

24: 90 minutes from end to end, if I've worked it out right, so PVR 3
25: 75 minutes'ish, so you've got a little time to play around

Could send it around Blackfell Way and loop it around the roundabout at the end to cover part of the TB14.

The Kibblesworth to Birtley, really needs to be part of the 28/29 really. I'd suggest running the 28B route from Ouston to Newcastle but not sure if there'd be enough time, instead of the current 29.

(19 Mar 2024, 8:19 pm)Storx wrote Errrm

24: 90 minutes from end to end, if I've worked it out right, so PVR 3
25: 75 minutes'ish, so you've got a little time to play around

Could send it around Blackfell Way and loop it around the roundabout at the end to cover part of the TB14.

The Kibblesworth to Birtley, really needs to be part of the 28/29 really. I'd suggest running the 28B route from Ouston to Newcastle but not sure if there'd be enough time, instead of the current 29.

I think 90 minutes end to end is a bit long, the attached ideas are both a lot shorter.

(19 Mar 2024, 6:32 pm)Storx wrote Not too sure the 56A would make too much sense on it's own.

Personally with the Birtley mess as I like to call it, I'd do.

24: Newcastle - Low Fell - Harlow Green - Wrekenton - Lansdown Road - Birtley - 82 to Barmston
25: Newcastle - QE Hospital - Wrekenton - Portobello - Chester Le Street - Langley Park

It's a complete mess right now imo with the duplicating of the 28/82 between the QE and Birtley.

Tbf, the 28 only really serves a very small part of what you’d call ‘new town’ Birtley whereas the 82 serves a much wider residential area.  The wider purpose of the 28 is links to ouston, beamish, pelton etc to Birtley and CLS.

The 28B having half its route cut on a Sunday is an odd one

(19 Mar 2024, 9:54 pm)Ambassador wrote Tbf, the 28 only really serves a very small part of what you’d call ‘new town’ Birtley whereas the 82 serves a much wider residential area.  The wider purpose of the 28 is links to ouston, beamish, pelton etc to Birtley and CLS.

The 28B having half its route cut on a Sunday is an odd one

Aye totally agreed, but imo the 25 should be the one serving the QE. Just makes more sense really, I'm not sure the likes of Portobello enjoy a massive detour going around Harlow Green etc serving nothing at all. I'm not sure they enjoy a detour of Birtley to then follow the same route as the 28 to get to the QE either.

They should just go back to the way it was for years with:

24: Newcastle to Wrekenton via Harlow Green
25: Newcastle to Langley Park via QE
82: Birtley to Washington via Ayton, maybe extended to Lansbury Drive
50: Direct from Rickleton to Washington

It's just 4 routes that have been messed around with and all 4 are worse imo.

Just don't see why the 82 needs to exist beyond Birtley personally, when you've got the 28 and should be 25 serving it instead.

Save money the 28B though, it's a just a PVR 2 doing that route.

(19 Mar 2024, 11:56 pm)Storx wrote Aye totally agreed, but imo the 25 should be the one serving the QE. Just makes more sense really, I'm not sure the likes of Portobello enjoy a massive detour going around Harlow Green etc serving nothing at all. I'm not sure they enjoy a detour of Birtley to then follow the same route as the 28 to get to the QE either.

They should just go back to the way it was for years with:

24: Newcastle to Wrekenton via Harlow Green
25: Newcastle to Langley Park via QE
82: Birtley to Washington via Ayton, maybe extended to Lansbury Drive
50: Direct from Rickleton to Washington

It's just 4 routes that have been messed around with and all 4 are worse imo.

Just don't see why the 82 needs to exist beyond Birtley personally, when you've got the 28 and should be 25 serving it instead.

Save money the 28B though, it's a just a PVR 2 doing that route.

Would you be better off extending the 82 to team valley. Off peak theres nothing from Washington or Birtley. If the 50 skips ayton and lambton can you tell me what else would serve them.

(20 Mar 2024, 8:26 am)ASX_Terranova wrote Would you be better off extending the 82 to team valley. Off peak theres nothing from Washington or Birtley. If the 50 skips ayton and lambton can you tell me what else would serve them.

Nah, I'd just leave it Birtley to Barmston Court only, so something like

82: Birtley Lansdown Road - via Ayton Road loop - Washington - Barmston Court (Every 30 Minutes) - PVR 3
24: Newcastle - Gateshead - Prince Concort Road - Low Fell - Harlow Green - Wrekenton (Every 30 Minutes) - PVR 3
25: Newcastle - Gateshead - QE - Portobello - Chester Le Street (Every 30 Minutes) - Langley Park (Every Hour) - PVR 4

24/25: Interworking, the 25 is roughly 48 minutes (shorts), 24 is 34 minutes I believe.

I know someone will say where's all these buses coming from (it's double the PVR to now) but these were successful commercial services for years, isn't the point of the BSIP to try and grow them back, it's not as if they don't serve anything they serve houses pretty much their whole routes and would open new links especially the Prince Concort Road area to Newcastle since the 51/52 got cut at Gateshead.

Hourly bus services are unacceptable imo, unless they serve rural areas which Langley Park to Chester Le Street pretty much is, so that's a fair timetable.

Could they give who every sorts the bus stands out 500 quid to replace the one at the north end of the high level bridge. Have 106 buses stopping at now one stop is bordering on idiocy. even if they put 2 stands together it would be better but back too two stops please!!

(01 Apr 2024, 7:46 pm)Rob44 wrote Could they give who every sorts the bus stands out 500 quid to replace the one at the north end of the high level bridge. Have 106 buses stopping at now one stop is bordering on idiocy. even if they put 2 stands together it would be better but back too two stops please!!

Yes that’s an odd one. I assumed it was related to the cathedral works as the app and nexus live map still shows two bus stops. Perhaps they’ll put it back!

Some bus drivers also stop at the original removed stop and others further down which doesn’t help

I've not noticed it, but in Newcastle, stops/shelters aren't managed by Nexus. They instead re-direct you to contact the Clear Channel damage hotline on 08007313699.

See: https://envirocall.newcastle.gov.uk/StreetFurniture

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

(02 Apr 2024, 8:05 am)Adrian wrote I've not noticed it, but in Newcastle, stops/shelters aren't managed by Nexus. They instead re-direct you to contact the Clear Channel damage hotline on 08007313699.

See: https://envirocall.newcastle.gov.uk/StreetFurniture

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

If I'm correct no bus stops in the North East are managed by Nexus. If they have an advertising board on it then it's done by Clear Channel in return for the advertising space. If not, then it's done by the respective council, hence all the bee bus stops in Sunderland and nowhere else and all the brick bus stops which are mostly unique to Gateshead. 

There's also a lot less shelters in both Gateshead and South Tyneside aswell from what I've seen.

In Northumberland the responsibility is the local parish council, Durham I'm unsure.

I wonder if it was a temporary move as the Cathedral works have got a large bit of path blocked and it was causing bottlenecking or equipment/vehicles couldn't manouever during the resurfacing closure works around there

(01 Apr 2024, 7:46 pm)Rob44 wrote Could they give who every sorts the bus stands out 500 quid to replace the one at the north end of the high level bridge. Have 106 buses stopping at now one stop is bordering on idiocy. even if they put 2 stands together it would be better but back too two stops please!!

What time scale is that please for 106 buses for one stop?

(02 Apr 2024, 4:52 pm)idiot wrote What time scale is that please for 106 buses for one stop?

sorry mate was being pedantic..... just felt like 106 buses stopped there, everyone bar the one i wanted and must have been 40 plus waiting for different services

That's a shame. It was almost believable!

Is there a handy summary anywhere of what BSIP funding has actually provided in terms of new or improved links in the North East (particularly in the Nexus area)?  Comparing it to Cumbria where it looks like some genuinely useful new links, later connections and actual frequency increases (not just publically funded reversals of recent commercial reductions) have been generated https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:00:53:197 - I am struggling to think of much locally that has improved beyond those reversals of commercial reductions, or stepping in to fund the likes of Arriva's withdrawal North of Tyne area.  So genuinely interested if there's a list for our area - is it better than I think?