Managing director of Go North East Kevin Carr, said the changes were introduced after a consultation with Nexus and customers.

He said many of the services now travelled closer to shops.
He said: “We are the number one bus operator in Sunderland and it’s really important that we adapt our services to meet customers’ needs.”

Come on then, lets see who bites. 

Are GNE the number one bus operator in Sunderland like Kevin Carr claims?

Or would that be Stagecoach?

(30 Jan 2015, 6:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Come on then, lets see who bites. 

Are GNE the number one bus operator in Sunderland like Kevin Carr claims?

Or would that be Stagecoach?

I think the real answer is: it depends.

My initial reaction to the statement was that I personally disagree, as I consider Stagecoach to be the principal bus operator in Sunderland. This is mainly due to the fact I live in Monkwearmouth and I am served by a large number of Stagecoach services.

That said, what forms our judgement on which bus operator is the best in Sunderland? Go North East are the only bus operator in Sunderland to have buses equipped with both Wi-Fi and power sockets - does this make them the 'number one bus operator in Sunderland'?

(30 Jan 2015, 6:12 pm)Dan wrote I think the real answer is: it depends.

My initial reaction to the statement was that I personally disagree, as I consider Stagecoach to be the principal bus operator in Sunderland. This is mainly due to the fact I live in Monkwearmouth and I am served by a large number of Stagecoach services.

I suppose it would depend on how 'Sunderland' is defined for one - is it the city or the wider area - but, arguably, it seems that Mr Carr enjoys hyperbole just as much as The Chronicle does.

(30 Jan 2015, 6:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Come on then, lets see who bites. 

Are GNE the number one bus operator in Sunderland like Kevin Carr claims?

Or would that be Stagecoach?

I think on buses based within Sunderland, GNE have more

(30 Jan 2015, 6:16 pm)citaro5284 wrote I think on buses based within Sunderland, GNE have more

On this basis, I'd agree that Go North East was the 'number one bus operator in Sunderland'.

As I said before, it depends how you define it. Go North East has a fleet of 131 buses based at Deptford, whereas Stagecoach only houses 98 at the Wheatsheaf (including two buses for disposal, two Olympians limited to Park & Ride duties, two active reserves and two training vehicles.)

(30 Jan 2015, 6:16 pm)citaro5284 wrote I think on buses based within Sunderland, GNE have more

But does 'having more buses' necessarily equate to being the number one bus operator?

Surely customers decide that based on ridership?

You can have all the buses in the world operating in Sunderland, however if nobody is using them...

(30 Jan 2015, 5:42 pm)tyresmoke wrote Something which we've had to deal with multiple times in Stockton over the last few months, upto 5 incidents at present!

People need to realise that streamlining of services is the way forward - 4 hourly variations are harder to market & understand than a 15 min frequency on a single route, and people find them easier to use. Unfortunately what they don't realise is that this means communities effectively get cut off.

Couldn't agree more, however operators need to realise that cutting communities off, forcing them into changes to get to school, their GP or hospital - will result in the stories like this, where they will get stick and they will get flack.
Particularly, when profit/competition is the motivating factor in the changes.

(30 Jan 2015, 6:14 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I suppose it would depend on how 'Sunderland' is defined for one - is it the city or the wider area - but, arguably, it seems that Mr Carr enjoys hyperbole just as much as The Chronicle does.

Got to take the rough with the smooth.
If the paper can be used as a PR machine or the website used for advertisements, then in a democracy, the operator has to take the flak.

I wonder if number one is in relation to bus routes, vehicles, passenger numbers, profit, satisfaction rates or the size of a bus depot.
It could be anything.

I don't think anybody has a right to complain about the recent service changes. Go North East held that consultation in Park Lane long before the changes were made and if they couldn't make it, they could have used their brains and contacted them in a different way such as through email or phone. The public were given plenty of opportunity to give their opinions and plenty of notice of the changes so i don't think it should be taken as a surprise by anybody.

(30 Jan 2015, 6:33 pm)Robert wrote I don't think anybody has a right to complain about the recent service changes. Go North East held that consultation in Park Lane long before the changes were made and if they couldn't make it, they could have used their brains and contacted them in a different way such as through email or phone. The public were given plenty of opportunity to give their opinions and plenty of notice of the changes so i don't think it should be taken as a surprise by anybody.

We can all remember the consultation, where representatives turned up late and were there once, questioning passengers who happened to be in the area over the several hours they were there.
Passengers on other parts of the routes, going in different directions or getting off prior to Park Lane weren't asked.

Passengers who couldn't get to the event, were unable to find out about the changes when they asked the operator via email or social media.

Passengers were unable to voice their concerns to the changes, as they had no idea what the changes were, (unless they were a member on here) until the announcements informed us all they were happening.

(30 Jan 2015, 5:28 pm)Michael wrote I'm gonna try and go back and find out what routes we've had for the 35. 

There's been 7 versions of the 35 series timetable since 2011 - so presumably the routes have changed up to 7 times since 2011 - which is still bonkers.

(30 Jan 2015, 6:42 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote There's been 7 versions of the 35 series timetable since 2011 - so presumably the routes have changed up to 7 times since 2011 - which is still bonkers.

Can I just clarify that the 35 service has been changed three times since the route it took in 2011.


In 2011, the 35 service was routed as: South Shields - Sunderland - Silksworth - Houghton-le-Spring - South Hetton - Peterlee

In 2012, the 35 service was routed as: South Shields - Cleadon - Sunderland - Silksworth - East Herrington - Herrington Burn - Houghton-le-Spring - Rainton Bridge npower

In 2013, the 35 service was routed as: South Shields - Cleadon - Sunderland - Royal Hospital - (35 / 35B / 35C) - Barnes Park - Silksworth (35A / 35B / 35C) - East Herrington - Herrington Burn - Newbottle - Houghton-le-Spring - Rainton Bridge (35A) - Hetton-le-Hole - Low Moorsley (35/35B) - South Hetton (35C)

In 2014, no changes were made.

In 2015, the 35 has been altered to be routed as: Low Moorsley – Hetton-le-Hole – Hetton Downs – Houghton-le-Spring – Newbottle – East Herrington – Durham Road (35) – Silksworth (35A) – Barnes Park - Royal Hospital – Sunderland – Southwick – Castletown – Town End Farm – Boldon – Wardley - Heworth. As we know, the Sunderland - South Shields section is now numbered 20/20A.


If you count all the different lettered variations, you might get somewhere close to Bridget's number, but this does not reflect the amount of times the service has been changed.

(30 Jan 2015, 6:42 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote There's been 7 versions of the 35 series timetable since 2011 - so presumably the routes have changed up to 7 times since 2011 - which is still bonkers.

Without checking, there have been the variations around Eppleton (before and after the X36/37), the re-routing of the 35A to Rainton Bridge and last year, the re-routing of the trip from Rainton via the A690.
There have been a few cancellations/amendments to the timetables too.

At least 4, just off the top of my head.

(30 Jan 2015, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Without checking, there have been the variations around Eppleton (before and after the X36/37), the re-routing of the 35A to Rainton Bridge and last year, the re-routing of the trip from Rainton via the A690.
There have been a few cancellations/amendments to the timetables too.

At least 4, just off the top of my head.

My last post details the 'major' service changes to service 35 over the last few years - I don't think I missed any of the major ones out?

I'd forgotten about the re-routing of the 35A via the A690, although this was just a minor change designed to improve reliability. Given the intention of this change was not to cut costs and was in fact to improve the reliability of the 35A service, I hardly think it should be cause for complaint?
http://www.simplygo.com/news/changes-from-1-june-2014/

Services X36/X37 were introduced in May 2011, after Veolia service 168 was revised to omit Low Moorsley, and the extension of service 35 to Low Moorsley via Hetton Downs to replace services X36/X37 was from November 2012. Service 35A was revised to operate via Durham Road from this date too, providing a faster journey time. If my memory serves, this allowed more layover time to improve reliability too?

After a bit of digging, I've discovered that Nexus had a delay of up to three weeks when updating bus stop timetables in May 2011. There was quite a large number of changes associated with Durham County Council funding cuts and new operators winning tenders from Nexus, with timetables also being altered. Go North East also altered a number of services from this date, too. I can't believe that this huge delay in posting timetables has been ongoing for years on end...

Few points...

Some of the comments about Bridget are a bit unfair. We shouldn't forget that she's went well against party line in pushing this one, and only in the last year, have others started jumping on the bandwagon. She may not use buses (I really have no idea whether she does or not), but I do know that she spends a lot of time and makes a lot of effort to speak face to face with her constituents. She is having issues like this raised with her on a regular basis, hence her pushing the issue in the first place. People love to be listened to, and operators really have failed here.

Can Stagecoach really number one in Sunderland, when they don't serve a large proportion of it? Can't remember when I last seen a Stagecoach bus in Washington?

With the Chronicle. I think they're always going to print sensationalist rubbish, but that can be a huge benefit too. If GNE had a proper spin doctor to handle the media, then they'd have a very powerful weapon with the local media.

As it stands, the public see buses as a public service, and therefore expect them to meet the demands of the public. Unfortunately for them, the bus industry was privatised, and their local services are now ran for profit. No profit = no service, and people quite rightly don't understand that. It's not so much a failing on the operators, but more a failing on the establishment for allowing it to happen.

(31 Jan 2015, 12:33 am)aureolin wrote Few points...

Some of the comments about Bridget are a bit unfair. We shouldn't forget that she's went well against party line in pushing this one, and only in the last year, have others started jumping on the bandwagon. She may not use buses (I really have no idea whether she does or not), but I do know that she spends a lot of time and makes a lot of effort to speak face to face with her constituents. She is having issues like this raised with her on a regular basis, hence her pushing the issue in the first place. People love to be listened to, and operators really have failed here.

Can Stagecoach really number one in Sunderland, when they don't serve a large proportion of it? Can't remember when I last seen a Stagecoach bus in Washington?

With the Chronicle. I think they're always going to print sensationalist rubbish, but that can be a huge benefit too. If GNE had a proper spin doctor to handle the media, then they'd have a very powerful weapon with the local media.

As it stands, the public see buses as a public service, and therefore expect them to meet the demands of the public. Unfortunately for them, the bus industry was privatised, and their local services are now ran for profit. No profit = no service, and people quite rightly don't understand that. It's not so much a failing on the operators, but more a failing on the establishment for allowing it to happen.

I think aureolin makes a good point there which is often missed in the QC debate - bus companies aren't doing anything wrong if they withdraw services which aren't profitable. If people want the public sector to be back in charge then they can be, but bus companies can't be blamed for making a profit when that is what the law permits them to do

As for Bridget - she is only interested in her own political career. She couldn't care less where the 35 or any other bus service actually goes

(31 Jan 2015, 2:09 pm)Crusader wrote I think aureolin makes a good point there which is often missed in the QC debate - bus companies aren't doing anything wrong if they withdraw services which aren't profitable. If people want the public sector to be back in charge then they can be, but bus companies can't be blamed for making a profit when that is what the law permits them to do

As for Bridget - she is only interested in her own political career. She couldn't care less where the 35 or any other bus service actually goes

It has been touched on in QCS quite a bit.
I remember one quote from David Brown, in May 2014 - discussing how that profit would be made.

We continue to make good progress in our bus division and are on course to achieve our operating profit target of £100m by 2015/16.  Our focus remains on achieving cost efficiencies in all areas of the business and driving revenue growth through our high quality operations.

We all know what cost efficiencies' are...

(31 Jan 2015, 2:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote It has been touched on in QCS quite a bit.
I remember one quote from David Brown, in May 2014 - discussing how that profit would be made.


We all know what cost efficiencies' are...

Aye....people been made redudant mainly due to new technology been brought in at back office.  It is not all about service cuts.

An example is that the wages for every bus driver in Go Ahead is processed at Bensham.  Think years gone by, how many clerks would have been needed at each Operating Company.

In terms of GNE, we have 2 full time and 1 part time clerks to check the payroll for each driver based at a couple of locations before it gets sent to Bensham, and we have around 1500 drivers.

Well, the improvements to services in Sunderland are being celebrated by Sun FM...
http://www.sun-fm.com/down-your-street-.php

(31 Jan 2015, 2:39 pm)citaro5284 wrote Aye....people been made redudant mainly due to new technology been brought in at back office.  It is not all about service cuts.

An example is that the wages for every bus driver in Go Ahead is processed at Bensham.  Think years gone by, how many clerks would have been needed at each Operating Company.

In terms of GNE, we have 2 full time and 1 part time clerks to check the payroll for each driver based at a couple of locations before it gets sent to Bensham, and we have around 1500 drivers.

Exactly. Unfortunately, staff do go as well. Passengers and staff - all affected by streamlining or cost saving efficiencies.
Then you have positive examples, such as the recycling of water in the bus wash or rainwater being used in a toilet system.

How far do you prune the bush, before you are left with nowt?

Quite often automation is used as one of the key techniques to improve efficiency and can achieve significant benefits when implemented with effective business change.
There’s a whole host of things that could contribute to greater operational efficiency – so why do so many companies just purely focus on the tools or the numbers of people?

One objective must be to deliver services which meet customer requirements/needs. In the current economic climate cost is obviously a big factor; so reducing the cost of delivering service is often the main driver for improving operational efficiency. It is worth noting that you can reduce your costs necessary to deliver service or operate a process, but if your customers leave because the quality of service has dropped then you are
still in danger of going out of business.
How do you reduce cost? We’ve probably all seen the standard approach used when challenged to reduce costs by a certain percentage:
• Get rid of contractors, ban travel, reduce training, cancel bonuses, reduce permanent headcount
• Over-stretch remaining resources, lose key knowledge
• Reduce motivation and therefore productivity
• Negatively impact service quality, lose customers and revenue
At this point, usually further action will be required:
• Start the cycle again to reduce costs further
• Invest to improve service quality

Vicious circle and as I asked earlier, how far do you prune the bush?

(31 Jan 2015, 4:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote Vicious circle and as I asked earlier, how far do you prune the bush?

Do we have to add a "Fozz, behave!" on to this too, or is it just me?

(31 Jan 2015, 4:47 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Do we have to add a "Fozz, behave!" on to this too, or is it just me?

Just spreading it about a bit

(31 Jan 2015, 2:39 pm)citaro5284 wrote Aye....people been made redudant mainly due to new technology been brought in at back office.  It is not all about service cuts.

An example is that the wages for every bus driver in Go Ahead is processed at Bensham.  Think years gone by, how many clerks would have been needed at each Operating Company.

In terms of GNE, we have 2 full time and 1 part time clerks to check the payroll for each driver based at a couple of locations before it gets sent to Bensham, and we have around 1500 drivers.

And using the same Payroll example, look at how many companies are outsourcing it completely, rather than just streamlining. They're in turn probably off shoring it to wherever is cheapest to do it. Malaysia seems to be the new 'hot spot' for multi nationals at least. 

I dread to think how many people it took to do the scheduling, before that software came about!

I wonder how many people will be confused about the 82/83 changes tomorrow!

(01 Feb 2015, 1:12 pm)Michael wrote I wonder how many people will be confused about the 82/83 changes tomorrow!

It doesn't help when GNE's Facebook page ignores the Nexus funded Arriva operated late route when people ask for advice mind!

(01 Feb 2015, 2:20 pm)gtom wrote It doesn't help when GNE's Facebook page ignores the Nexus funded Arriva operated late route when people ask for advice mind!

Hmm, that's daft they should say on their replies about the Arriva runs, i don't even think GNE tickets are accepted on the NEXUS ones. 

(05 Jan 2015, 9:12 pm)Tom wrote Cheers.

(01 Feb 2015, 2:33 pm)Michael wrote Hmm, that's daft they should say on their replies about the Arriva runs, i don't even think GNE tickets are accepted on the NEXUS ones. 

All GNE Tickets are accepted the Arriva 82/83.

(01 Feb 2015, 2:41 pm)Malarkey wrote All GNE Tickets are accepted the Arriva 82/83.

According to GNE they're not...

Hi *****- If you have a buzzfare ticket, Im afraid that would not be valid on an Arriva service.

(01 Feb 2015, 2:48 pm)Michael wrote According to GNE they're not...

Hi *****- If you have a buzzfare ticket, Im afraid that would not be valid on an Arriva service.

are you sure they werent on about arriva in general? Just with them not saying 82/83 specifically.

I've heard stories of people getting on with Key Cards and merely showing them to the driver, stating they have a valid ticket for the 82/83 services loaded on it. Drivers apparently just tell them to sit down!

(01 Feb 2015, 2:53 pm)Robert wrote are you sure they werent on about arriva in general? Just with them not saying 82/83 specifically.

Not sure, her question before was:

Will it still take my bus tickets or will I have to get a new one?