(07 Mar 2015, 12:37 pm)mb134 wrote Thought they only had 4 branded: 7514/5/6/7?

Thats correct. Now only 3 following 7515 being debranded (as discussed)

(07 Mar 2015, 12:37 pm)mb134 wrote Thought they only had 4 branded: 7514/5/6/7?

I had a look at the list in the portacabin, and it says five with 7515 scribbled out.
Don't know how that's happened.

(07 Mar 2015, 12:44 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote I had a look at the list in the portacabin, and it says five with 7515 scribbled out.
Don't know how that's happened.

No, 7514-7 maded 4 X14. 7511-3 are X15 branded.

(07 Mar 2015, 12:46 pm)Kuyoyo wrote No, 7514-7 maded 4 X14. 7511-3 are X15 branded.

Is the PVR for the X14/14 still 4?

Apologies, the PVR is 3, 4 vehicles were branded X14. Now 3 vehicles are branded X14.
Sorry for the confusion.

Is there a reason for late-running on the X12/X2? I've tried to time photographs so many times now and I've failed due to late running.

Doesn't matter which day, what time, there always seems to be an issue. One would have thought Arriva would aim to stamp these issues out upon MAX conversion of the route.

(07 Mar 2015, 2:33 pm)Dan wrote Is there a reason for late-running on the X12/X2? I've tried to time photographs so many times now and I've failed due to late running.

Doesn't matter which day, what time, there always seems to be an issue. One would have thought Arriva would aim to stamp these issues out upon MAX conversion of the route.

Good luck with that one. I've been trying to get them to apply some common sense for the best part of two years now.

It only gets 5 mins layover at Durham, and then a further 5 at Boro, which is ridiculous for such a long route. Slightest bit of traffic at Low Fell will delay you a good 5-10 mins for a start, and you've got the same problem with Church Street in Durham. 

I quite often keep an eye on the live map for my bus. I had to leave early yesterday as I was heading through Washington, and the one I intended to get had gotten in to Boro about 20 mins late. I'd looked again later on, and it was still running about 20 late. There are opportunities on route to catch up on time, but there are also more than enough places to be delayed. 

Now on a 12 minutes late 7610. GNE's Hybrids on the Angel have more power.

#MINimumSpeed
#MAXimumDelays

(07 Mar 2015, 2:33 pm)Dan wrote Is there a reason for late-running on the X12/X2? I've tried to time photographs so many times now and I've failed due to late running.

Doesn't matter which day, what time, there always seems to be an issue. One would have thought Arriva would aim to stamp these issues out upon MAX conversion of the route.

I have no idea but it often ends up running late at points of the day when I've tried to get the X2 to Newcastle and the X12 from the likes of Sedgefield. Could be anything, although often when I've used the X2/X12 and it has been late it has been a VDL DB300 Gemini turn up and they seem not very fast on some of the more rural sections of the route especially towards Sedgefield.

I imagine the refurbishment to MAX isn't helping as people will be seeing different coloured buses turning up to usual and some people are getting confused, especially on the X2 with people confusing it with a Go North East bus.

GNE's 21 gets some stick on this forum, but every 21 I saw at Chester and Gateshead departed on time (0-2 mins late) today. Doing better than the X2 - which, thanks to its delay, has managed to grab some punters off the X21!

Also the X2 (& 21, X21 etc.) also has to deal with the division through Chester which not all the drivers appear to know based on the journey I had the other week which went round even more of the area!

Timetable for the X12/X2 is tight, think 5 minutes at each end is terrible really especially when a driver change is needed too.

(07 Mar 2015, 2:48 pm)Jimmi wrote I have no idea but it often ends up running late at points of the day when I've tried to get the X2 to Newcastle and the X12 from the likes of Sedgefield. Could be anything, although often when I've used the X2/X12 and it has been late it has been a VDL DB300 Gemini turn up and they seem not very fast on some of the more rural sections of the route especially towards Sedgefield.

I imagine the refurbishment to MAX isn't helping as people will be seeing different coloured buses turning up to usual and some people are getting confused, especially on the X2 with people confusing it with a Go North East bus.

People who use it are getting fed up. I work with a good few that use it to Teesside, and they're coming into work really early, because they can't rely on the X12 after a certain time. I've found the same, and that if I aim to get into Durham after half 7, I'll not get there for when I want to be. On top of that, you're packed on like sardines at peak times, all because a depot can't accommodate deckers... fancy that eh... 

Now I know they can't help congestion around Church Street and Low Fell, but it's all about having a realistic and achievable timetable. I'd suggest the X12/X2 hasn't, as this has been going on for at least the 2 years I've witnessed the problem. Of course, there seems to be a reluctance to chuck an extra bus in to add more layover time, because the would impact on the profit of the service.

Can't help but think that GNE are missing a trick here mind....

I have been following GNE's 6022 on the 21 all the way from Gateshead on this X2. The 21 has picked up and dropped off at pretty much every stop and this X2 has only dropped someone off once, yet we are still behind... It is just ludicrous - the driver seems reluctant to even make an attempt at getting in front.

We're now at Chester-le-Street. Express service, huh?

(07 Mar 2015, 10:20 pm)tyresmoke wrote Was the utterly gutless 7474 - no wonder it was late all day

What's the excuse for the rest of the X2/X12 PVR.....?

In the interests of fairness, I must point out that 7618 departed Durham on an X12 on-time earlier, although carried very few passengers as 7610 departed ten minutes prior...

(07 Mar 2015, 10:22 pm)Dan wrote What's the excuse for the rest of the X2/X12 PVR.....?

In the interests of fairness, I must point out that 7618 departed Durham on an X12 on-time earlier, although carried very few passengers as 7610 departed ten minutes prior...

I'm wondering if the diversions in Chester-le-Street are causing some of it. Having said that the Stockton ones all seem to run more or less on time (the 1535 from Middlesbrough today departed on time) so I think it's more an issue with Durham's operation. Whether that's down to the buses (Geminis limited at 50mph), the drivers or something else I'm not sure.

(07 Mar 2015, 10:28 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'm wondering if the diversions in Chester-le-Street are causing some of it. Having said that the Stockton ones all seem to run more or less on time (the 1535 from Middlesbrough today departed on time) so I think it's more an issue with Durham's operation. Whether that's down to the buses (Geminis limited at 50mph), the drivers or something else I'm not sure.

Shouldn't be having as big an affect as it seems to be having, and of course this diversion hasn't been in place for months (or years) on end. See aureolin's earlier post.

Go North East's services are running fine, as the diversion in Chester-le-Street only really adds about two minutes to the normal timetabled journey. Easily made up when you've got enough recovery time built into the timing points or layover time at each end, which, as already established, the X2/X12 has very little.

I would e-mail Arriva Customer Services to address my issues with regards to timekeeping and lack of layover, but quite frankly, it's not worth the 30-day wait for a response. Quite surprising Arriva isn't more proactive on a route which they face strong competition on...

(07 Mar 2015, 10:30 pm)Dan wrote Shouldn't be having as big an affect as it seems to be having, and of course this diversion hasn't been in place for months (or years) on end. See aureolin's earlier post.

Go North East's services are running fine, as the diversion in Chester-le-Street only really adds about two minutes to the normal timetabled journey. Easily made up when you've got enough recovery time built into the timing points or layover time at each end, which, as already established, the X2/X12 has very little.

I would e-mail Arriva Customer Services to address my issues with regards to timekeeping and lack of layover, but quite frankly, it's not worth the 30-day wait for a response. Quite surprising Arriva isn't more proactive on a route which they face strong competition on...

I've done the X2 enough times to know there's no issues with the timings (last time I did one middle of the day and ran on time all the way there and back...) so it's either drivers who can't be bothered or something else is causing problems.

I wouldn't think the Geminis being limited to 50mph would create a massive problem? I can only think of one part of the route that it could legally exceed 50 anyway? Between Pity Me and Chester. Stockton is just as bad as Durham imo, and I can only put it down to lack of running time in the timetable.

Look at Durham Bus Station to the Science Site for example. 8 minutes, and 10 minutes during peak times. That's navigating the busy North Road roundabout, getting through the Millburngate roundabout lights (which will cost you a few minutes if caught). After then, you have the potential of a further 4 or 5 sets of lights, not to mention the usual Elvet/Church Street congestion, due to it being tight and a single lane. Then you've got stops to take account of... It's a miracle if you can do that in 8 or 10 mins. In my own experience, it takes about 15 mins or 20 at peak times. The timetable also allows 8 minutes from Durham Science Site, to the Bowburn Hare & Greyhounds, both normally and at peak times. Google quotes that as 7 minutes by car, and lets face it, you're not stopping to pick up and drop people off in a car.

(07 Mar 2015, 10:30 pm)Dan wrote Shouldn't be having as big an affect as it seems to be having, and of course this diversion hasn't been in place for months (or years) on end. See aureolin's earlier post.

Go North East's services are running fine, as the diversion in Chester-le-Street only really adds about two minutes to the normal timetabled journey. Easily made up when you've got enough recovery time built into the timing points or layover time at each end, which, as already established, the X2/X12 has very little.

I would e-mail Arriva Customer Services to address my issues with regards to timekeeping and lack of layover, but quite frankly, it's not worth the 30-day wait for a response. Quite surprising Arriva isn't more proactive on a route which they face strong competition on...

In fairness the 21 the short journeys don't do the diversion the X2 does (although leaves from a different stop to normal) and the Durham 21's have lots of layover in Durham Bus Station often see a 21 leave then see another one arrive. Although the X21 seems to cope fine and GNE can send another bus out from Bishop Bus Station if it looks like the X21 will arrive back late, Arriva can't really do this in Middlesbrough Bus Station with the X12/X2 especially on Belmont operated journeys.

I imagine Stockton's journeys seem to go more smoothly as they use Pulsar's on their journeys which handle the route well while the Gemini's are pretty slow especially on hills on the X12 route. Also Stockton don't change drivers in Durham Bus Station like Belmont depot does on journeys leaving as the X2 and journeys leaving as the X12.

Other than that all I can say is possibly traffic related issues especially in the Durham area at times and how many stops it actually makes between Durham and Coxhoe.

(07 Mar 2015, 10:47 pm)aureolin wrote I wouldn't think the Geminis being limited to 50mph would create a massive problem? I can only think of one part of the route that it could legally exceed 50 anyway? Between Pity Me and Chester. Stockton is just as bad as Durham imo, and I can only put it down to lack of running time in the timetable.

Look at Durham Bus Station to the Science Site for example. 8 minutes, and 10 minutes during peak times. That's navigating the busy North Road roundabout, getting through the Millburngate roundabout lights (which will cost you a few minutes if caught). After then, you have the potential of a further 4 or 5 sets of lights, not to mention the usual Elvet/Church Street congestion, due to it being tight and a single lane. Then you've got stops to take account of... It's a miracle if you can do that in 8 or 10 mins. In my own experience, it takes about 15 mins or 20 at peak times. The timetable also allows 8 minutes from Durham Science Site, to the Bowburn Hare & Greyhounds, both normally and at peak times. Google quotes that as 7 minutes by car, and lets face it, you're not stopping to pick up and drop people off in a car.

Oh I agree there's some of the timings you look at and wonder how they timed them. Durham Bus Station to the science site is one of those impossible ones... The time between Bowburn and Coxhoe is slack though! There is recovery time built in at the far end between Stockton and Middlesbrough too with way too much time allowed there (waiting 2-3 mins at Teesdale is annoying when you're finished...)

(07 Mar 2015, 10:47 pm)aureolin wrote I wouldn't think the Geminis being limited to 50mph would create a massive problem? I can only think of one part of the route that it could legally exceed 50 anyway? Between Pity Me and Chester. Stockton is just as bad as Durham imo, and I can only put it down to lack of running time in the timetable.

Look at Durham Bus Station to the Science Site for example. 8 minutes, and 10 minutes during peak times. That's navigating the busy North Road roundabout, getting through the Millburngate roundabout lights (which will cost you a few minutes if caught). After then, you have the potential of a further 4 or 5 sets of lights, not to mention the usual Elvet/Church Street congestion, due to it being tight and a single lane. Then you've got stops to take account of... It's a miracle if you can do that in 8 or 10 mins. In my own experience, it takes about 15 mins or 20 at peak times. The timetable also allows 8 minutes from Durham Science Site, to the Bowburn Hare & Greyhounds, both normally and at peak times. Google quotes that as 7 minutes by car, and lets face it, you're not stopping to pick up and drop people off in a car.

The peak time workings are rarely as late as you say they are by the time they reach Stockton - I've seen them all week and the Stockton-worked duplicate normally gets a few minutes layover at the Royal Oak.

(07 Mar 2015, 10:56 pm)Jimmi wrote In fairness the 21 the short journeys don't do the diversion the X2 does (although leaves from a different stop to normal) and the Durham 21's have lots of layover in Durham Bus Station often see a 21 leave then see another one arrive. Although the X21 seems to cope fine and GNE can send another bus out from Bishop Bus Station if it looks like the X21 will arrive back late, Arriva can't really do this in Middlesbrough Bus Station with the X12/X2 especially on Belmont operated journeys.

I imagine Stockton's journeys seem to go more smoothly as they use Pulsar's on their journeys which handle the route well while the Gemini's are pretty slow especially on hills on the X12 route. Also Stockton don't change drivers in Durham Bus Station like Belmont depot does on journeys leaving as the X2 and journeys leaving as the X12.

Other than that all I can say is possibly traffic related issues especially in the Durham area at times and how many stops it actually makes between Durham and Coxhoe.

The diversion isn't *that* much of an issue though. It's a couple of minutes, along a route with zero congestion. You'd expect there to be room in a timetable to accommodate that couple of minutes, otherwise how would you expect the timetable to cope with anything other than a skeleton traffic flow?

I'd ask how long a driver change should realistically take? Again, should be accounted for in a realistic timetable. Mind you, it doesn't help when the bus is still standing there with it's ignition off, minutes after it should have departed, with a driver nowhere in sight. Too much of a common sight when it comes to Durham changeovers. 

Stopping between Durham and Coxhoe is practically every stop, but that extends to the 56/57/57A too. I sound like a broken record, but a realistic timetable should account for this. It also indicates that the demand is a lot higher than the supply. 

(07 Mar 2015, 11:03 pm)Kuyoyo wrote The peak time workings are rarely as late as you say they are by the time they reach Stockton - I've seen them all week and the Stockton-worked duplicate normally gets a few minutes layover at the Royal Oak.

There's room to boot it between Coxhoe and Sedgefield, and then again Sedgefield to Stockton. It doesn't help those who live in County Durham though. 

The 1715 duplicate quite often follows the 1700 out of Durham, once it's past the Science Site. When I was getting the E200s for haulage (Millburngate to County Hall), the 1700 X2 was late coming into Durham each time. It really needs that 5 minutes it has of layover to take the inevitable full loading it'll get at the bus station. 

(07 Mar 2015, 11:05 pm)aureolin wrote The diversion isn't *that* much of an issue though. It's a couple of minutes, along a route with zero congestion. You'd expect there to be room in a timetable to accommodate that couple of minutes, otherwise how would you expect the timetable to cope with anything other than a skeleton traffic flow?

I'd ask how long a driver change should realistically take? Again, should be accounted for in a realistic timetable. Mind you, it doesn't help when the bus is still standing there with it's ignition off, minutes after it should have departed, with a driver nowhere in sight. Too much of a common sight when it comes to Durham changeovers. 

Stopping between Durham and Coxhoe is practically every stop, but that extends to the 56/57/57A too. I sound like a broken record, but a realistic timetable should account for this. It also indicates that the demand is a lot higher than the supply. 

I'd say a driver change realistically shouldn't take any more than 2-3 minutes.
I'd argue some of the issue lies in adding extra stops willy nilly without giving us any extra time. All stops from Coxhoe to Pity Me now, that's not an express... The local services (56/57's) job is to serve all stops

(07 Mar 2015, 11:05 pm)aureolin wrote The diversion isn't *that* much of an issue though. It's a couple of minutes, along a route with zero congestion. You'd expect there to be room in a timetable to accommodate that couple of minutes, otherwise how would you expect the timetable to cope with anything other than a skeleton traffic flow?

I'd ask how long a driver change should realistically take? Again, should be accounted for in a realistic timetable. Mind you, it doesn't help when the bus is still standing there with it's ignition off, minutes after it should have departed, with a driver nowhere in sight. Too much of a common sight when it comes to Durham changeovers. 

Stopping between Durham and Coxhoe is practically every stop, but that extends to the 56/57/57A too. I sound like a broken record, but a realistic timetable should account for this. It also indicates that the demand is a lot higher than the supply. 

When the X12 arrives in Durham Bus Station there should be 4 minutes between the X12 arriving and then it leaving as the X2 to Newcastle so if a Belmont journey arrives even a minute or two late it results in the X2 leaving late as I'd say it probably takes roughly three minutes for a driver change (inc. sorting the ticket machine) so it only realistically has a minute to get passengers on to leave on-time and this usually takes 2-3 minutes in my experience so little wonder why the Belmont journeys can sometimes leave Durham late. Obviously Stockton journeys don't change drivers in Durham so this isn't a problem.

Think the 56/57/57A get around 6 minutes before departing.

Drivers turning up just before or after the bus is due out in Durham is a problem which I see quite a lot of the time, I'm just glad most of the 7's are run by Darlington depot.

(07 Mar 2015, 11:14 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'd say a driver change realistically shouldn't take any more than 2-3 minutes.
I'd argue some of the issue lies in adding extra stops willy nilly without giving us any extra time. All stops from Coxhoe to Pity Me now, that's not an express... The local services (56/57's) job is to serve all stops

Aye, I agree with you there. I'd probably be impacted if it didn't stop at every stop, but an express service stopping 3 times in a tiny village like Coxhoe is insane. Of course the 56/57's can't actually cope now that the uni passes are valid, as people are using these to make up for the 30 min frequency on the X12, as they support a combined 10 min frequency on that corridor - something I think Arriva are relying too heavily on.

I hadn't realised that all stops between Durham - Pity Me were now valid. I seem to recall that it only stopped at the Salutation, Fram shops, and then at the far end of Pity Me (can't remember what the pub is called!). 

(07 Mar 2015, 11:19 pm)aureolin wrote I hadn't realised that all stops between Durham - Pity Me were now valid. I seem to recall that it only stopped at the Salutation, Fram shops, and then at the far end of Pity Me (can't remember what the pub is called!). 

Has been all stops from Durham - Pity Me Front Street (the pub is The Lambton Hounds Inn) for a while now, although most days it only stops at Fram, Front Street, Salutation Bus Gate and High Carr Road (Salutation Inn stop the 64 also uses) then Aykley Heads and sometimes County Hall.

Don't think the X2 should actually be using the High Carr Road stop on Durham bound X2's although everyone (including me) would still flag it down in the hope it would stop there instead of cramming onto the 64.

They should up the frequency.
Why can't GNE see there is a huge chance for them to introduce a service.

(07 Mar 2015, 3:04 pm)Dan wrote I have been following GNE's 6022 on the 21 all the way from Gateshead on this X2. The 21 has picked up and dropped off at pretty much every stop and this X2 has only dropped someone off once, yet we are still behind... It is just ludicrous - the driver seems reluctant to even make an attempt at getting in front.

We're now at Chester-le-Street. Express service, huh?

Dan, I'm not picking at any drivers here and this is only a small minority but do you notice some a VERY SMALL number of drivers who drive very slowly and I don't mean by sticking to the speed limit and driving to to conditions, I mean doing 20 in a 30 and doing 40 on a 50+ dual carriageway. Here's my instances:

- 7524 on the X22 from Brunton Pk to Newcastle due turned up 5 mins late and ended up getting into Haymarket just before 15:55 when he was supposed to be heading back out to Newbiggin as service X21. Driver was driving very slowly to the lights after blue house then floored it from there.

- 7608 on the 308 turned up 5 minutes late and ended up arriving at Haymarket by 07:15 9 minutes late having been overtaken by the following 306, 309 and even the 310 which was due in at 07:15. Bus wasn't busy at all. Driver never got above 30 on the Coast Road.

- Several instances on the 43 and 1 driver never or very rarely got above 20 on a journey that normally runs on time. Same driver was ahead on a preceeding 45 a few weeks later and we followed him all the way to Wideopen behind on the 43.

I know GNE don't tolerate it (road, vehicle, statutory, high loads, operational and conditions permitting) and I've heard that if any drivers are found, they get sent to CLS for training. I don't know what stance Arriva take but unless them six conditions in the brackets above are preventing the service running to time, there's no excuse particularly driving deliberately slowly and it should be nipped in the bud. Even saw several complaints on FB about this issue.

(07 Mar 2015, 11:29 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Dan, I'm not picking at any drivers here and this is only a small minority but do you notice some a VERY SMALL number of drivers who drive very slowly and I don't mean by sticking to the speed limit and driving to to conditions, I mean doing 20 in a 30 and doing 40 on a 50+ dual carriageway. Here's my instances:

- 7524 on the X22 from Brunton Pk to Newcastle due turned up 5 mins late and ended up getting into Haymarket just before 15:55 when he was supposed to be heading back out to Newbiggin as service X21. Driver was driving very slowly to the lights after blue house then floored it from there.

- 7608 on the 308 turned up 5 minutes late and ended up arriving at Haymarket by 07:15 9 minutes late having been overtaken by the following 306, 309 and even the 310 which was due in at 07:15. Bus wasn't busy at all. Driver never got above 30 on the Coast Road.

- Several instances on the 43 and 1 driver never or very rarely got above 20 on a journey that normally runs on time. Same driver was ahead on a preceeding 45 a few weeks later and we followed him all the way to Wideopen behind on the 43.

I know GNE don't tolerate it (road, vehicle, statutory, high loads, operational and conditions permitting) and I've heard that if any drivers are found, they get sent to CLS for training. I don't know what stance Arriva take but unless them six conditions in the brackets above are preventing the service running to time, there's no excuse particularly driving deliberately slowly and it should be nipped in the bud. Even saw several complaints on FB about this issue.

Used to be a massive problem 10-15 years ago, but it shouldn't be a problem at all now, with the introduction of AVL. I don't know if the system works it out automatically, but it'd be easy enough to work out based on distance travelled between two points.