Constant shuffling of the pack ! Every six or so months just as the punters are getting "used" to things its all thrown in the mix under the auspicies of making services more reliable and listening to what customers want. Want we want is consistency. When I was first introduced (OK this is a few years ago) we had in East Cleveland what I would call a complete bus service. Services ran between Redcar and Lofus with connections to Lingdale and Saltburn; and through fares. The whole thing ran like clockwork. Then there was the services between Loftus and Middlesbrough with extensions to Whitby. Again it ran like clockwork and hey they used to have to duplicate services on a weekend to cope with demand. OK so I reminise (and dream probably) but what do we have now with this continual tinkering in what is, in essence, the objective of saving money and resources. Take for example the recent shuffling of services X66/67 to remove service 6. It's got little to do with what customers want.

On another theme, and one I've wanting to bring to the table for a while. For my sins I'm living in Hartlepool at present with all my friends etc in Middlesbrough, Redcar and Darligton (Arrivaland) I was amazed to find there was/is no direct (fast) between Pool and Darlington; 3 hours either way via either Peterlee or Durham is unthinkable. Then there is the cost factor isn't there? We know Stagecoach NE hold sway across here so we have 2 fares if I want to go to Darlington, or face the ordeal of travelling Arriva via the aforementioned points on a Day Ticket, same going to Redcar, Saltburn or Whitby. Yes we have the Explorer tickets but that only shaves a couple of quid of the cost and does nothing re the time involved. All I'll say is roll on the day I can draw my pension.

Yes its ridiculous. Totally confusing for passengers. Always trying to save a bit of money.

Constant shuffling of the pack ! Every six or so months just as the punters are getting "used" to things its all thrown in the mix under the auspicies of making services more reliable and listening to what customers want. Want we want is consistency. When I was first introduced (OK this is a few years ago) we had in East Cleveland what I would call a complete bus service. Services ran between Redcar and Lofus with connections to Lingdale and Saltburn; and through fares. The whole thing ran like clockwork. Then there was the services between Loftus and Middlesbrough with extensions to Whitby. Again it ran like clockwork and hey they used to have to duplicate services on a weekend to cope with demand. OK so I reminise (and dream probably) but what do we have now with this continual tinkering in what is, in essence, the objective of saving money and resources. Take for example the recent shuffling of services X66/67 to remove service 6. It's got little to do with what customers want.

On another theme, and one I've wanting to bring to the table for a while. For my sins I'm living in Hartlepool at present with all my friends etc in Middlesbrough, Redcar and Darligton (Arrivaland) I was amazed to find there was/is no direct (fast) between Pool and Darlington; 3 hours either way via either Peterlee or Durham is unthinkable. Then there is the cost factor isn't there? We know Stagecoach NE hold sway across here so we have 2 fares if I want to go to Darlington, or face the ordeal of travelling Arriva via the aforementioned points on a Day Ticket, same going to Redcar, Saltburn or Whitby. Yes we have the Explorer tickets but that only shaves a couple of quid of the cost and does nothing re the time involved. All I'll say is roll on the day I can draw my pension.

Totally agree on the second point as well.

Above comment promotes unnecessary use of the no-quibble money back guarantee. 

Not like you could claim as temporary shuttle services and other factors that are not Arriva issues, mean that the claim would be rejected.

It makes the forum look silly with remarks like that, in my opinion.

Not for the first time!

The shuttle bus X12 should have really been numbered as temporary route - 112. This avoids confusion to passengers, which will be wanting to go to either Durham and Newcastle, and also reinforces the fact that it isn't a Max service.

The no-quibble money back guarentee is open to misuse, and has been. Promoting misuse (as a few posts up) on a public forum is embarrassing to members and bus companies alike.

You say that but then you have to imagine the amount of complaints the company would receive because the X12 'hasn't turned up'

Could either of you point me in the direction of the terms and conditions of the 'no-quibble money back guarantee' please? Given that I've asked Arriva for it previously, and they've told me there aren't any, I'm not sure where this 'other factors that are not Arriva issues' comes from? Of course, it's a line you'd expect to see in a set of terms and conditions...

I took the original remark was a tongue in cheek comment, on the back of previous discussions around such a daft guarantee system being in place. Not a promotion of misuse.


I'd argue the shuttle bus has been provided for the benefit of the company, rather than the passengers. It'd cost a lot more to add resource to the full route to accommodate, so a shuttle bus remains the cheapest option.

The service has been provided to benefit the passengers as it is a method to keep the service 'on time'.  I personally don't see a reason as to why it was needed as the X12 could have simply followed the diversion which the 21 is following.  However, for once, Arriva has planned for the worst case scenario which I sincerely doubt anyone will compliment them on.  By adding extra resources into the route to allow it to operate normally would involve a significant layover at some location which would mean a temporary timetable change for a 4 month period which (in my opinion) isn't beneficial for passengers.

The service has been provided to benefit the passengers as it is a method to keep the service 'on time'.  I personally don't see a reason as to why it was needed as the X12 could have simply followed the diversion which the 21 is following.  However, for once, Arriva has planned for the worst case scenario which I sincerely doubt anyone will compliment them on.  By adding extra resources into the route to allow it to operate normally would involve a significant layover at some location which would mean a temporary timetable change for a 4 month period which (in my opinion) isn't beneficial for passengers.

I'd say if planned works over a prolonged period of time mean that the timetable isn't achievable, then it does need to be temporarily changed. As you're already aware, the timetable has been changed, but to temporarily omit the Interchange rather than alter the timings. A shuttle bus has instead been registered to provide a service between Low Fell and Gateshead.

It was one of two options, and I maintain the opinion that this is the cheapest of the two options, thus benefiting the company. I'd argue that having to change buses would inconvenience customers more than having a few minutes added to their journey time each way. It'd probably take more than that to switch buses. 

I am curious as to how the shuttle operates with the reliability of the X12 in general? It's not exactly the greatest at maintaining any form of schedule, and I'd wonder what happens to the shuttle, on the regular occasions you have two X12s about 5-10 minutes apart? If there's only one bus operating the shuttle, then those passengers are going to be waiting at Low Fell for it coming back from Gateshead.

The service has been provided to benefit the passengers as it is a method to keep the service 'on time'.  I personally don't see a reason as to why it was needed as the X12 could have simply followed the diversion which the 21 is following.  However, for once, Arriva has planned for the worst case scenario which I sincerely doubt anyone will compliment them on.  By adding extra resources into the route to allow it to operate normally would involve a significant layover at some location which would mean a temporary timetable change for a 4 month period which (in my opinion) isn't beneficial for passengers.

They might end up having to do that anyway, if the Durham roadworks over the next few months are going to cause delays like the bridge works did. As it is, there's no slack in the timetable - they already took some stops out, recently, as it wasn't keeping time.

They might end up having to do that anyway, if the Durham roadworks over the next few months are going to cause delays like the bridge works did. As it is, there's no slack in the timetable - they already took some stops out, recently, as it wasn't keeping time.

Aye, that's true! Fun and games for you on the 22 

Is the X12 diversion in Gateshead the same as that affecting the X10? The X10 I was on Tuesday was only delayed a couple of minutes by the diversion. Then at the interchange the proper X12 AND the X12 shuttle came through - that shouldn't be should it?

Is the X12 diversion in Gateshead the same as that affecting the X10? The X10 I was on Tuesday was only delayed a couple of minutes by the diversion. Then at the interchange the proper X12 AND the X12 shuttle came through - that shouldn't be should it?

Yeah, they're both affected by the same diversion in Gateshead.

PB0002032/485 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Alnwick and Morpeth given service number X15 effective from 11-Jan-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.

Yeah, they're both affected by the same diversion in Gateshead.

Don't see why they've had to go to all that trouble then - why not just do the diversion like the X10? Like I say Tuesday the proper X12 actually went through the interchange while I was there! (A Stockton one).

PB0002032/485 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Alnwick and Morpeth given service number X15 effective from 11-Jan-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.

Bit soon, expect Alnwick and Berwick and Morpeth and Newcastle too, while X14/X18 and possibly X20 will also have variations.

Bit soon, expect Alnwick and Berwick and Morpeth and Newcastle too, while X14/X18 and possibly X20 will also have variations.

Given the short notice, I would expect that this variation is a diversion due to a road closure or similar?

Given the short notice, I would expect that this variation is a diversion due to a road closure or similar?

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/u...Rashercap/

The new timetables for the 28/28A and 29/29A have been released:
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/GetTimetable...221-160405
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/GetTimetable...221-160405

Don't see why they've had to go to all that trouble then - why not just do the diversion like the X10? Like I say Tuesday the proper X12 actually went through the interchange while I was there! (A Stockton one).

There can be quite a build up of traffic on that diversion route, just with the services that take that route normally.
Obviously they have anticipated additional delays with the extra buses (usually distance stuff) having to go that way too.

Someone said the Durham 21's had a gap of 45 mins the other day. Whether it is connected to the diversion, who knows.

Someone said the Durham 21's had a gap of 45 mins the other day. Whether it is connected to the diversion, who knows.

..and whether it was true or not is also another matter!

Given the short notice, I would expect that this variation is a diversion due to a road closure or similar?

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/u...Rashercap/

Again?! They only did works last year.

Looks like the 115 returns...

The new timetables for the 28/28A and 29/29A have been released:
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/GetTimetable...221-160405
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/GetTimetable...221-160405

As also have the 5/5a, 17/17a/X17, 27/27a and 63 timetables.

In summary

5/5a/X5
The X5 is withdrawn. In place, the 5/5a will operate at a combined 10 minutely frequency on the core section at peak times (arrivals into Middlesbrough between 8 and 9 and departures from Middlesbrough between 1630 and 1730).
The 5 additionally reverts to its pre-July 2015 routing between Carlin How and Easington with each round trip serving just one of the two villages of Liverton or Skinningrove. This does impact on the recovery time at Easington (Liverton journeys get a minute, Skinningrove 5)
The 1810 departure from Middlesbrough now operates to the evening route and time, arriving at Twizziegill View at 1913 (presently 1929)
Sunday daytime journeys on the 5 will now alternative between serving Skinningrove or Liverton Mines on a 2 hourly basics. As per the present daytime operation, journeys operating to Easington via Skinningrove return to Middlesbrough via Liverton and vice versa.

17/17a/X17
The number of X17 journeys are reduced to 3 journeys in each direction. The current departure from Kingsmead at 0749 is replaced by a 17 at 0744 while an additional 17 from Kingsmead is introduced at 0814 working off the 0710 departure from Middlesbrough (which presently runs light to Ingleby Barwick for 0841).
Outbound, the 1640 departure on the X17 is withdrawn with the 1630 17 revised to terminate at Sober Hall.
The 1815 17 to Kingsmead is retimed to run at 1805 all week. On Saturdays, the current 1735 17 to Sober Hall and the 1755 17a to Stockton will now run at 1730 and 1745.

27/27a
From Netherfields weekdays:

• The 1730 27a will now depart at 1735
  
• The 1745 27 will now depart at 1755
  
• The 1800 27a will now depart at 1815
  

From Middlesbrough weekdays

• The 1700 27a now runs 5 minutes later at 1705
  
• The 1707 27 now runs 8 minutes later at 1715, as such the 1715 27a now runs at 1725
  
• The 1722 27 now runs 13 minutes later at 1735
  
• The 1745 27 now runs as a 27a replacing the 1730 departure, meaning Cranmore Road and College Road have a gap of 75 minutes between 27s from the town
  

No changes to evening, Saturday or Sunday timetables

28/28a/28b/29/29a
Shall list these together as they come under the same umbrella
Departure times for the Lingdale and Stokesley services from Middlesbrough remain unchanged, leaving at xx05 (Lingdale) and xx35 (Stokesley) as now. The AM peak departures are slightly changed with the first Lingdale now leaving at 0655 (presently 0700) and the first Stokesley being 0725 (0730). The recently retimed 0745 28 returns to the previous 0755 departure time. Both Guisborough and Stokesley sees a reduced level of departures during the early morning peak (Guisborough is down to hourly from the present 4 between 0600 and 0800, Stokesley is down from 3 pre-0900 arrivals to just 2).
The last 28 to Lingdale is now 1710 (presently 1705 Monday-Friday and 1730 Saturdays) while the last 28a is 1740 (1750 weekdays, 1745 Saturday).
The 29 now leaves Middlesbrough at xx15 and xx45 for Cypress Road. The 0815 and 0845 departures from the Bus Station run as 29As as does the last Cypress Road terminator at 1720. The last 4 departures from Cypress Road also run as 29As. Evening 29As to Swans Corner leave Middlesbrough at 1755, 1830 and 1930 (presently 1815, 1845 and 1945 on 28b) with return journeys at 1838 and 1918 (presently 1732 from Lingdale (1800 at Nunthorpe) and 1900). Sunday journeys are retimed inbound to run 1 to 2 minutes earlier from Nunthorpe to Saltersgill but arrives in Middlesbrough 1 minute later.
29As depart Middlesbrough for Marton Manor at xx25 and xx55 until 1625 then 1700. These last two departures during the week run the evening route to Marton Manor via Easterside. On Saturdays, the 1555 and 1625 operate this route with the 1655 and 1725 operating to Cypress Road (last 29 weekdays is 1615 from town and 1553 from Cypress Road, Saturdays are 1615 and 1523 with the 1553 running as a 29A).
Saturday mornings are back to old times with full service levels out of town from 0900.
Interworking patterns appear to be: 28/xx15 29/28a/xx45 29 with 29As 2 buses stand alone.
Neither 28/28a nor Nunthorpe 29As now have a timing point at Nunthorpe Station.

63
Reportedly due to issues raised by Redcar Council (who really should have started work on that end of the High Street first rather than sort the Clock out first), the 63 will revert to the originally temporary route within Redcar. They will still serve Morrisons but will now turn right onto the High Street rather than across at that junction. It will serve the stops at Wilkinsons and opposite the Bus Station before then running directly along the seafront to the Clock.
The 1550 departure from Middlesbrough will terminate at the Clock (work onto the X3 during the week, not sure about Saturdays).

EDIT: Links to timetables are now dead links. To view them, check the website (pointless posting links again because they'll go out of date again)

27/27a
From Netherfields weekdays:

• The 1730 27a will now depart at 1735
  
• The 1745 27 will now depart at 1755
  
• The 1800 27a will now depart at 1815
  

From Middlesbrough weekdays

• The 1700 27a now runs 5 minutes later at 1705
  
• The 1707 27 now runs 8 minutes later at 1715, as such the 1715 27a now runs at 1725
  
• The 1722 27 now runs 13 minutes later at 1735
  
• The 1745 27 now runs as a 27a replacing the 1730 departure, meaning Cranmore Road and College Road have a gap of 75 minutes between 27s from the town
  

No changes to evening, Saturday or Sunday timetables

Any particular reason why the change proposed in the consultation have not come to fruition???

Do all these timetable variations (as opposed to service improvements) come with headache tablets ? No wonder so many passengers are despondent and heaven help the drivers.

Do all these timetable variations (as opposed to service improvements) come with headache tablets ? No wonder so many passengers are despondent and heaven help the drivers.

Well said!

Having further reviewed the timetables, it appears Stockton's PVR will reduce by 1 on the 22nd Feburary with the 28/28a/29 cycle being 7 vehicles while the 29a is 2. Presently, 28 and 29/29a both use 5 vehicles.

All to do with saving money and resources. Arriva have a team someplace whose role must be dedicated to this under the banner heading of "Service Improvements". They want to get out in the real world and listen to the customers. And as I've said before, why no direct (and fast) service/connection between two major connurbations? Namely Darlington and Hartlepool. All to do with politics between operators, nothing to do with providing a service that the customers want.

All to do with saving money and resources. Arriva have a team someplace whose role must be dedicated to this under the banner heading of "Service Improvements". They want to get out in the real world and listen to the customers. And as I've said before, why no direct (and fast) service/connection between two major connurbations? Namely Darlington and Hartlepool. All to do with politics between operators, nothing to do with providing a service that the customers want.

Is there enough demand for another service linking Hartlepool and Middlesbrough, given that Stagecoach already run two successful services between these two locations?

The Arriva services which would feed into this proposed service between Hartlepool and Middlesbrough are the 23/24 services - both of which come from Peterlee. Given that there's already an existing service which operates between Peterlee and Middlesbrough (21A) which passengers on the 23/24 services could connect with at Peterlee, anyone who would presumably use this proposed service would live somewhere on the corridor between Blackhall Colliery and Hartlepool, as this is a centre-point between Peterlee and Hartlepool and presumably the point at which connecting at Peterlee may take longer.

I just don't think that the market is big enough.

All to do with saving money and resources. Arriva have a team someplace whose role must be dedicated to this under the banner heading of "Service Improvements". They want to get out in the real world and listen to the customers. And as I've said before, why no direct (and fast) service/connection between two major connurbations? Namely Darlington and Hartlepool. All to do with politics between operators, nothing to do with providing a service that the customers want.

You could say the same about Arriva's lack of connections between Sunderland and Newcastle. They can only extend so far and still be profitable, though. The only one that does perplex me is their lack of link between Newcastle and the Metrocentre for passengers travelling from Northumberland, even if it's just a Saturday service like the x24

Dan. I'm talking here about a direct service between Hartlepool and DARLINGTON, I know that there are services by Stagecoach to Middlesbrough. Presently the options to get between the two locations are either costly - Stagecoach 1 or 36 to Boro change to Arriva X66/7, costing nearly £13.00 and taking between 90 and 150 mins depending. The other option, to keep the cost down is to travel Arriva to either Peterlee or Durham and change to the respective services. Cost £7.70. Journey and connection times unthinkable. Hopefully my tenure here in Hartlepool will come to and end this year and I can move back to Arrivaland.

Dan. I'm talking here about a direct service between Hartlepool and DARLINGTON, I know that there are services by Stagecoach to Middlesbrough. Presently the options to get between the two locations are either costly - Stagecoach 1 or 36 to Boro change to Arriva X66/7, costing nearly £13.00 and taking between 90 and 150 mins depending. The other option, to keep the cost down is to travel Arriva to either Peterlee or Durham and change to the respective services. Cost £7.70. Journey and connection times unthinkable. Hopefully my tenure here in Hartlepool will come to and end this year and I can move back to Arrivaland.

My bad - mis-read your original post!

Direct services are great, but not in-line with the 'hub and spoke' model used by operators. As you say, there's plenty of options available already for this journey, even if the services aren't direct.

I could be with you on what you say about Arriva and connections to Sunderland/Newcastle. However wouldn't this mean Arriva stepping in to GNE's territory and duplicating existing services when resources need to be used elsewhere. As for the services between Hartlepool and Sunderland/Newcastle, that's something I'll not be doing again ! Heaven help those who have to use them regularly and commute. No disrespect to the operator here mind but my last (and only) journey between the two points was a nightmare, all credit to the drivers. No for me I'm afraid its down to the train station if the need arises again.