(30 Aug 2021, 4:05 pm)citaro5284 wrote Bus Service Improvement Plan

Thanks. 
anyone get any more info on what that will entail

(30 Aug 2021, 4:13 pm)Keeiajs wrote Thanks. 
anyone get any more info on what that will entail

A fund for bus service improvements perhaps?

(30 Aug 2021, 4:13 pm)Keeiajs wrote Thanks. 
anyone get any more info on what that will entail

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk...rators.pdf

(30 Aug 2021, 4:18 pm)citaro5284 wrote https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk...rators.pdf

Thank you for actually being helpful.

(30 Aug 2021, 10:45 am)DeltaMan wrote Sunderland is very good example of where you are disenestivised for even thinking of using a bus if you want to visit the city centre. If you park at the multi story you walk undercover a few meters and you are in the centre. Get the bus and the main facility is 1/4 of a mile away, uncoverd to the elements and seagull excrement.

Car users can travel where and when they want, buses by there very nature have a timetable, so aren't  as flexible. So make car users walk further when accessing these popular facilities. No doubt the usual motor opinion formers would say this is a "war on motorists" though

I think GNE would be better served showing parts of Sunderland on its network map they don't serve with the Stagecoach routes with an add for the Day Rover or Smartzone, at least that way they may get some additional revenue if they buy it from GNE! That would cost nothing to do

Cars also have the opportunity to go wherever they want so if you want to make them walk further then they'll just go somewhere else - most do anyway as Sunderland is crap and has nothing there hence it's dying on it's arse. There's more at Washington Galleries than Sunderland nowadays and that's a fact and strangely one is free to park and difficult to park half the time whereas the other is £1.60, I believe, and empty most the time.

The reason most people get a bus to Sunderland is they have no choice to go elsewhere since it's difficult to get anywhere else in Sunderland without going via the centre.

The majority of routes go along Fawcett Street or Holmeside anyway so I don't really get the fuss there's only the 60 and a few rump services that don't and they could easily do a loop around if it was such a big deal.

(30 Aug 2021, 3:55 pm)Keeiajs wrote I mean, Idk whether there is much there is some. However I think it would be more to take on the E's On Sunderland to South Sheilds as GNE do have cheaper fares especially for under 18's than SC or Arriva

Also BSIP?

GNE's student ticketing is not cheaper however is covered by a significantly larger area, and not for students either....
Ticketing for child/students....

GNE (5-25) - £1.20 Single (U19 Only), £4.50 Day, £17 Week 
Stagecoach (5-19) - £1.20 Single, £2.90 Day, £9.50 Day  
Arriva (5-19) - Adult Single, £3.30 Day, £13.30 Week (Tyne & Wear)

(30 Aug 2021, 5:47 pm)logidoodah wrote GNE's student ticketing is not cheaper however is covered by a significantly larger area, and not for students either....
Ticketing for child/students....

GNE (5-25) - £1.20 Single (U19 Only), £4.50 Day, £17 Week 
Stagecoach (5-19) - £1.20 Single, £2.90 Day, £9.50 Day  
Arriva (5-19) - Adult Single, £3.30 Day, £13.30 Week (Tyne & Wear)

Oh I thought they were better than that tbh. £17 a week, it might cover a bigger area but that is quite expensive

(30 Aug 2021, 5:32 pm)Adrian wrote Similar to the example of Market Street East in Newcastle, it is literally a 5 minute walk from the middle of Market Square, which arguably is the centre of all the shops. 

If people can muster up the energy to walk around shops all morning, then surely they can manage the short walk to and from the bus station. Bags of shopping or not.

Most Passengers don’t need to walk to bus station as mostly all buses serve holmside or vine place, feel sorry more for passengers having to walk to interchange to go southbound on the 60/61 or Arriva 22/23, or westbound on 8/78 from Sunderland


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(30 Aug 2021, 5:47 pm)logidoodah wrote GNE's student ticketing is not cheaper however is covered by a significantly larger area, and not for students either....
Ticketing for child/students....

GNE (5-25) - £1.20 Single (U19 Only), £4.50 Day, £17 Week 
Stagecoach (5-19) - £1.20 Single, £2.90 Day, £9.50 Day  
Arriva (5-19) - Adult Single, £3.30 Day, £13.30 Week (Tyne & Wear)

There's the Arriva Teen Card for singles which is valid after 6pm / all day weekends and holidays for a £1 or half a single (whatever is cheaper).

There's also the Nexus CAT aswell which is 60p per single or £1.10 a day in Tyne and Wear for Under 16's if you have the POP Card which will be the majority of people in Sunderland Interchange.

(30 Aug 2021, 2:56 pm)Dan wrote Aside from Drifter60's example (which is just one case, on one day), is there really much of a demand for a through service from Parkside and Seaham through to Seaburn and South Shields? I don't understand the growing obsession with this proposed route.

Leisure facilities at Seaburn are growing (Stack, pubs, restaurants, etc), and whilst you could say a proactive operator would be capitalising on this, I really don't think extending the 60 is the right option. There needs to be more than just leisure to warrant this kind of thing (i.e. with the extension of the 21 to Brandon, there's leisure at Arnison Centre, education at New College, and work).

No doubt I'll be shot down for saying this, but there can't be a bus provided for every eventuality. With the impending BSIP, it'd be more likely to expect an enhancement to Network One ticketing and better integration of existing services.

I'm not sure anyone has ever suggested a bus being provided for every opportunity.
I've certainly suggested (and I know others have too), that the network is reimagined and it is adapted to suit changing travel patterns.
Before anyone gets on their protective high-horse - this isn't about one specific operator. 
It's the whole lot here in the NE and there are many examples of the network now, being as it was (or pretty similar) 20, 30, 40 years ago when town and city centres were king, out of town retail parks were new, business parks didn't exist and the internet was in its infancy (or didn't exist).

Yes, Drifter60 may have provided one example on one day, but who is to say that the residents living on the route of the 60, don't fancy a day out on the other side of the river?
Who is to say that people living on the north side of the river don't work at Seaham?
Or do we just pretend that keeping the status quo is good, changing buses is easy and ticketing works nicely?

(30 Aug 2021, 6:06 pm)Storx wrote There's the Arriva Teen Card for singles which is valid after 6pm / all day weekends and holidays for a £1 or half a single (whatever is cheaper).

There's also the Nexus CAT aswell which is 60p per single or £1.10 a day in Tyne and Wear for Under 16's if you have the POP Card which will be the majority of people in Sunderland Interchange.

Yes, I know about all these examples however was just specifying the ones advertised by the individual bus companies rather than the shared ones as the person who I quoted was talking about individual operators. Also don't forget the PoPBlue Card which is discounted for metro, but can be used as a currency/top up card for the buses (which is what I used). 
But thanks anyways Storx

(30 Aug 2021, 7:44 pm)logidoodah wrote Yes, I know about all these examples however was just specifying the ones advertised by the individual bus companies rather than the shared ones as the person who I quoted was talking about individual operators. Also don't forget the PoPBlue Card which is discounted for metro, but can be used as a currency/top up card for the buses (which is what I used). 
But thanks anyways Storx

Yeah no worries man, the Teen Card is a hard one to find and is pretty hidden especially on the awful new Arriva site. Aye the POP Cards are a bit of a mess imo as there's way to many, they just need one imo like Oyster which can have everything including Network One loaded on, hopefully one day but no doubt it'll not happen.

Change the 311 to do this route. (Could be called either 41 or 311)

I'm not sure how popular this would be however it would make use of (what some would say) "redundant" 311 as well as the "useless" 41/41A. 
This would be operated by Single Deckers every 20 Min? 
It basically does the whole 41/41A route as well as the whole 311 route. It would do the opposite way round once an hour for example, (like the 41A from 5th Sep)


This is just an idea I had I am a little skeptical of it myself. Opinions are welcomed....

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(30 Aug 2021, 7:56 pm)Storx wrote Yeah no worries man, the Teen Card is a hard one to find and is pretty hidden especially on the awful new Arriva site. Aye the POP Cards are a bit of a mess imo as there's way to many, they just need one imo like Oyster which can have everything including Network One loaded on, hopefully one day but no doubt it'll not happen.

 EXACTLY. 
But I agree it won't happen not with nexus in charge

(30 Aug 2021, 8:06 pm)logidoodah wrote Change the 311 to do this route. (Could be called either 41 or 311)

I'm not sure how popular this would be however it would make use of (what some would say) "redundant" 311 as well as the "useless" 41/41A. 
This would be operated by Single Deckers every 20 Min? 
It basically does the whole 41/41A route as well as the whole 311 route. It would do the opposite way round once an hour for example, (like the 41A from 5th Sep)

Newcastle --> Battle Hill --> Hadrian Park --> Howdon --> Wallsend --> Newcastle (x2)
OR 
Newcastle --> Wallsend --> Howdon --> Hadrian Park --> Battle Hill --> Newcastle (x1)

This is just an idea I had I am a little skeptical of it myself. Opinions are welcomed....

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 EXACTLY. 
But I agree it won't happen not with nexus in charge

I always thought about that route but it has a massive flaw that it cuts the main link between Battle Hill and Wallsend unless you go around the world through Howdon so probably wouldn't be too popular. The other side is pretty much the old 305 - https://www.northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/...th1997.jpg which would be popular but you'd have to keep the other site somehow and it's been scrapped before. If you could somehow drop the 311 down to half hourly and restore the 305 over the 311/41 (Howdon side) it would work (but keep the 41 between Wallsend and Hadrian Park). It would mess the rest of the Coast Road timetable up though.

Agreed tbh on Nexus they only care about the Metro though imo.

(30 Aug 2021, 8:18 pm)Storx wrote I always thought about that route but it has a massive flaw that it cuts the main link between Battle Hill and Wallsend unless you go around the world through Howdon so probably wouldn't be too popular. The other side is pretty much the old 305 - https://www.northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/...th1997.jpg which would be popular but you'd have to keep the other site somehow and it's been scrapped before. If you could somehow drop the 311 down to half hourly and restore the 305 over the 311/41 (Howdon side) it would work (but keep the 41 between Wallsend and Hadrian Park). It would mess the rest of the Coast Road timetable up though.

Agreed tbh on Nexus they only care about the Metro though imo.

I always thought that the problem was that the 42/A was always not far behind the 40 or 41,so now the 42/A is no longer an issue i'd revert the 41 back to its pre March 2020 route,the 40 going 1 way and the 41 doing the other,but maybe just drop them both to every half an hour,including the Wallsend-Hadrian Park section,tbh does the 41 really NEED to be every 15 mins when the 311 shares the same route as the 41 from the Coast Road?

(30 Aug 2021, 8:28 pm)V514DFT wrote I always thought that the problem was that the 42/A was always not far behind the 40 or 41,so now the 42/A is no longer an issue i'd revert the 41 back to its pre March 2020 route,the 40 going 1 way and the 41 doing the other,but maybe just drop them both to every half an hour,including the Wallsend-Hadrian Park section,tbh does the 41 really NEED to be every 15 mins when the 311 shares the same route as the 41 from the Coast Road?

Not sure tbh on numbers.

See personally I'd just extend the Q3 every 15/30 minutes depending on what's actually needed since they're bigger buses to Hadrian Park and then extend the 42/42A to Howdon one going one way, the other going the other way round.

Creates new links to places and removes the 41 altogether and shouldn't affect the PVR's at all but I'm not sure on driver hours etc. It's also less dead running swapping drivers in Wallsend for the 41/42/42A with it now just being once service at Howdon which is quite close to Percy Main.

How bad is the 42/42A they always have uncomfortable buses, but they go to NCL so I would think it would be a lot more popular.

(30 Aug 2021, 8:40 pm)Keeiajs wrote How bad is the 42/42A they always have uncomfortable buses, but they go to NCL so I would think it would be a lot more popular.

NCL,is that code for Newcastle,cus if so,neither go there

(30 Aug 2021, 10:07 pm)V514DFT wrote NCL,is that code for Newcastle,cus if so,neither go there

NCL is the code for Newcastle International Airport. Which the 42A does serve.

(31 Aug 2021, 8:00 am)Keeiajs wrote NCL is the code for Newcastle International Airport. Which the 42A does serve.

Also the code for Newcastle Central Station Rail which it doesnt serve

Mod note: Moved a section of posts to here: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showt...p?tid=2207&pid=262994#pid262994

We all know GNE is under going massive re-painting and Re branding, but I thought why isn't the 50 or The 49/A/C. They are quite popular services and I do think they should be branded. Also I do think the 12/6/9/5 should be branding I know they interwork however I think they both deserve brandings same with the 9&5. I mean if the 12 & 6 does get the streetlites they should be branded. And why isn't the 49, it should be.

Also when the 50 gets newer buses (maybe 15' Plate Streelites or 5369-5376) when they do that should be branded.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:26 am)Keeiajs wrote We all know GNE is under going massive re-painting and Re branding, but I thought why isn't the 50 or The 49/A/C. They are quite popular services and I do think they should be branded. Also I do think the 12/6/9/5 should be branding I know they interwork however I think they both deserve brandings same with the 9&5. I mean if the 12 & 6 does get the streetlites they should be branded. And why isn't the 49, it should be.

Also when the 50 gets newer buses (maybe 15' Plate Streelites or 5369-5376) when they do that should be branded.

The 50 will be interworking with the 26 so branding wouldn't work unless it was very generic.

Likewise with the 6 and 12, they are completely different routes so it is hard to have a brand for them - the only sort of branding that would work is something along the lines of the old 'Toon Link' branding.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:26 am)Keeiajs wrote We all know GNE is under going massive re-painting and Re branding, but I thought why isn't the 50 or The 49/A/C. They are quite popular services and I do think they should be branded. Also I do think the 12/6/9/5 should be branding I know they interwork however I think they both deserve brandings same with the 9&5. I mean if the 12 & 6 does get the streetlites they should be branded. And why isn't the 49, it should be.

Also when the 50 gets newer buses (maybe 15' Plate Streelites or 5369-5376) when they do that should be branded.

The 49 used to have the half arsed 'The 49' brand, but that was removed a year or two back, prior to that it was Blaydon Racers, which I quite liked

I think the less said about the previous 50 branding the better!

(02 Sep 2021, 10:30 am)Thomas12 wrote The 50 will be interworking with the 26 so branding wouldn't work unless it was very generic.

Likewise with the 6 and 12, they are completely different routes so it is hard to have a brand for them - the only sort of branding that would work is something along the lines of the old 'Toon Link' branding.

Ah so the 26 will be washington operated. And the 5 will be Deptford.

I mean for the 50/26 it could be the Seasider - South Shields Connect - BeachRider idk they are both related by south sheilds. Maybe 

6&12 would suit a updated version of the ToonLink, or just like you say a Generic Name CityConnect. CityLink (might aswell bring that back).                     

49 - Blaydon Ranger / Winlaton Ranger 

9/5 - Tyne & Wear Explorer

(02 Sep 2021, 10:42 am)streetdeckfan wrote The 49 used to have the half arsed 'The 49' brand, but that was removed a year or two back, prior to that it was Blaydon Racers, which I quite liked

I think the less said about the previous 50 branding the better!

Given the need for Euro 6 at Riverside for extras etc, it makes more sense to swap the Omnicities that will remain from Washington with Citaros for the 50/26.

That covers the 6/12 as well plus the capacity to carry on with the extras at peak times, albeit with less capacity than a B7 or Omnidekka.

(02 Sep 2021, 11:18 am)54APhotography wrote Given the need for Euro 6 at Riverside for extras etc, it makes more sense to swap the Omnicities that will remain from Washington with Citaros for the 50/26.

That covers the 6/12 as well plus the capacity to carry on with the extras at peak times, albeit with less capacity than a B7 or Omnidekka.

Except the Omnicities on the 50 converted to Euro6 spec were done using funding in corporation from.......South Tyneside Council. And I'm sure Dan has mentioned in the past, as a result of that, the Omnicities can only be replaced on the 50 by vehicles of similar Euro rating - which basically means the Citaros can't replace them as they are only Euro5 (or Euro4).

(02 Sep 2021, 10:42 am)streetdeckfan wrote The 49 used to have the half arsed 'The 49' brand, but that was removed a year or two back, prior to that it was Blaydon Racers, which I quite liked

I think the less said about the previous 50 branding the better!

"The 49" "The 9" ngl that branden just annoyed me. I don't get how the 49 isn't branded.

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(02 Sep 2021, 11:23 am)Kuyoyo wrote Except the Omnicities on the 50 converted to Euro6 spec were done using funding in corporation from.......South Tyneside Council. And I'm sure Dan has mentioned in the past, as a result of that, the Omnicities can only be replaced on the 50 by vehicles of similar Euro rating - which basically means the Citaros can't replace them as they are only Euro5 (or Euro4).

Are the 66' plates not Euro 6. and then you have the rest of the 17' Plates from Deptford. Which should go onto 12/6. (Which should get branding like CityConnect or CityLink)

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(02 Sep 2021, 11:18 am)54APhotography wrote Given the need for Euro 6 at Riverside for extras etc, it makes more sense to swap the Omnicities that will remain from Washington with Citaros for the 50/26.

That covers the 6/12 as well plus the capacity to carry on with the extras at peak times, albeit with less capacity than a B7 or Omnidekka.

I think a few more Citaros / OmniCity's will be being withdrawn later this year. But also the 03/04 plate OmniDekkas should be going by the end of next year if not before.

(02 Sep 2021, 11:23 am)Kuyoyo wrote Except the Omnicities on the 50 converted to Euro6 spec were done using funding in corporation from.......South Tyneside Council. And I'm sure Dan has mentioned in the past, as a result of that, the Omnicities can only be replaced on the 50 by vehicles of similar Euro rating - which basically means the Citaros can't replace them as they are only Euro5 (or Euro4).

South Tyneside did fund the upgrade to Euro 6, there is the option of robbing their engines, they aren't great buses and the comfort on the 50 is very poor. Given the fact only the City of Newcastle is 'capable' of attaining the carbon level promised , South Tyneside where on a whim with that one..

(02 Sep 2021, 10:30 am)Thomas12 wrote The 50 will be interworking with the 26 so branding wouldn't work unless it was very generic.

Likewise with the 6 and 12, they are completely different routes so it is hard to have a brand for them - the only sort of branding that would work is something along the lines of the old 'Toon Link' branding.

Maybe I’m misreading the timetables but I don’t see why the 6 and 12 need to interwork? Surely they could be both standalone? It does seem a missed opportunity to not brand services which are pretty high frequency, the 12s are every 15 minutes and Blaydon Racers was a good brand. The unbranded routes certainly used to feel like neglected ones.