(08 Sep 2013, 5:29 pm)gtomlinson wrote I can't see GNE taking on Arriva and more importantly, Stagecoach in the Cumbria region

GNE go roughly half way down that corridor between Hexham and Carlisle to Haltwhistle, and from my findingS which could be wrong, currently only the 685 operated by Arriva/Stagecoach serves that entire corridor.

And GNE wouldn't be competing, they'd be simply improving services along that corridor so to speak, as it would be daft to compete with Stagecoach/Reays in Carlisle. If they have a few services that go into Carlisle Town Centre and no further they should be fine.

I wouldn't expect them to go into direct competition and have a Service themselves from Carlisle to Penrith as they'd find they'll have the same problem as they did with the OK1 and plus they'd be further duplicating an already existing Service and also wasting a lot of money in doing so.

(08 Sep 2013, 5:47 pm)cbma06 wrote Was that not C for Calvarly Coaches based at Concord?.

I remember the C10 in Sunderland in the late 80's early 90's, Sunderland to Pennywell operated by Jamsons Coaches from Pallion using and blue and white coach.

It would have been during the 00's. It ran to Waterview Park.

(08 Sep 2013, 5:40 pm)fozzovmurton wrote I take your point mate, the point I was making about Sunderland-Hexham is not pure fantasy, as I said, it was mentioned to me as a rumour by a couple of drivers, whether they really believed it I dont know ans could have told me just to amuse me and give me something to talk about and mentioned that it would be a service I would use, but if would be financially viable, I dont know...Must say one thing mind, got to like Mr Malarkeys passion for the ideas he comes up with, he always puts some thought into it and obviously enjoys looking for that 1 idea that may just have us thinking it might just happen. 1 thing I must say, some suggestions I make is always pretty much what I would to myself and dont really think about the viability.


As always, I do like your enthusiasm, comes across as if you love coming up with a new idea and put thought into it, so well done mate...

However, Annan, really, that is really pushing it, if going to Annan, you may as well continue to Dumfries, not that I would put that suggestion, forward...Although it isnt likely to happen, that kind of run would be better for an coach operation

I was trying to find out if Carlisle was in a certain valley or something on Google Maps, then when I looked again, Gretna/Annan didn't look to far away, obviously in actual Miles compared to a Map it would be different. Could be something for Stagecoach in Cumbria to look into though, if haven't already got a Service in Place.

And thank you for those kind comments, I appreciate it, and as I said a few weeks ago when we had this Fantasy Argument amongst us, I did say I put a lot of Thought and Time and Effort into my suggestions compared to others.

And I do enjoy creating these Ideas even if some are terrible and a bit to the extreme. But to me that is the Beauty of it, as others can look at these Ideas and then help you Improve and Expand on them to find a better solution.

(08 Sep 2013, 6:00 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I was trying to find out if Carlisle was in a certain valley or something on Google Maps, then when I looked again, Gretna/Annan didn't look to far away, obviously in actual Miles compared to a Map it would be different. Could be something for Stagecoach in Cumbria to look into though, if haven't already got a Service in Place.

And thank you for those kind comments, I appreciate it, and as I said a few weeks ago when we had this Fantasy Argument amongst us, I did say I put a lot of Thought and Time and Effort into my suggestions compared to others.

And I do enjoy creating these Ideas even if some are terrible and a bit to the extreme. But to me that is the Beauty of it, as others can look at these Ideas and then help you Improve and Expand on them to find a better solution.

I think whoever came up with the old 638 must have been on fantasy island.

(08 Sep 2013, 6:02 pm)aureolin wrote I think whoever came up with the old 638 must have been on fantasy island.

Was the 638 ever actually used though? If it was, perhaps some thought had gone into it - if not, then I agree. :p

(08 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm)Daniel wrote Was the 638 ever actually used though? If it was, perhaps some thought had gone into it - if not, then I agree. :p

It was quite heavily used between Sunderland and The Galleries, as it essentially ran a mix of what the 2A/2C route is now - along Chester Road, down Barnwell, under the railway arch down to Fatfield bridge, and then the 2C route from there on. I remember using it to Winlaton once as I was seeing someone from up that way, but never again.

(08 Sep 2013, 6:08 pm)aureolin wrote It was quite heavily used between Sunderland and The Galleries, as it essentially ran a mix of what the 2A/2C route is now - along Chester Road, down Barnwell, under the railway arch down to Fatfield bridge, and then the 2C route from there on. I remember using it to Winlaton once as I was seeing someone from up that way, but never again.

I don't think whoever invented the service would have expected anyone to travel from A to B, and the general consensus of the service would have no doubt to provide various links from various destinations - allowing passengers to have the ultimate freedom of choice.
Times were obviously different then so it's hard to compare it to a modern day equivalent. As we've already discussed, direct services aren't particularly common nowadays anyway - it's better (in the eyes of the operator) to have frequent services on multiple services and passengers have to change between these.

(08 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm)Daniel wrote Was the 638 ever actually used though? If it was, perhaps some thought had gone into it - if not, then I agree. :p

the 638 used to be busy between galleries and Sunderland (especially around Penshaw and fatfield) I remember in the mornings that since the service has to be single decker operation due to fatfield Bridge there used to be 2 638 running together to Sunderland going past Grindon Mill at 08:15 always used to be nationals on there.

The 638 Sunderland to Ryton (later extended to Crawcrook) used to be 3 bus services combined into 1 bus service.

Ah the 638, hasn't been mentioned for a while.

As others have said, it was always busy, particularly on the Galleries - Sunderland section.
The fact that section still exists, is enough to tell me the demand is still there.

I remember the section between the Galleries and Low Fell wasn't that well used, however it still provided vital links for short hops. Unfortunately this section was never replaced - with passengers relying on what had been left after the cull in Washington and a number of services beyond Blackfell.

Beyond Low Fell, obviously the 69 still exists - but I can't comment on the 638 loadings.

Edit. I can vaguely remember that duplicate service. One was just a short run if I remember correctly though.

IIRC it was quite well used between Winlaton and Whickham, however, I don't recall ever seeing many passengers on the Winlaton to Ryton stretch. It was also quite well used in the summer with people going to Saltwell Park.

From my memories of the 638 I remember having Verdes/Striders on it on a daily basis with the odd Dart here and there. Then when it got changed to the 773/774 it used Plaxton Prestiges which was quite nice at the time, before having MPD's when GNE changed it again to the 73/74, again with the odd mixture before it changed to what it is now the 2A/2C.

I don't whether the demand was there between Washington and Crawcrook back in the days of the 638 as I only used it as far as The Galleries, but since then I think maybe the Demand has grown in that area, and be worth re-installing the link again, obviously not the whole route, but perhaps from Washington to Winlaton would be suitable.

(08 Sep 2013, 7:25 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote From my memories of the 638 I remember having Verdes/Striders on it on a daily basis with the odd Dart here and there. Then when it got changed to the 773/774 it used Plaxton Prestiges which was quite nice at the time, before having MPD's when GNE changed it again to the 73/74, again with the odd mixture before it changed to what it is now the 2A/2C.

I don't whether the demand was there between Washington and Crawcrook back in the days of the 638 as I only used it as far as The Galleries, but since then I think maybe the Demand has grown in that area, and be worth re-installing the link again, obviously not the whole route, but perhaps from Washington to Winlaton would be suitable.

Washington - Oxclose - Blackfell - Springwell - Cotemede - Meresyde - Colegate - Whealcroft - QE Hosp - Beacon Lough - Kells Lane - Beaconsfield Road - Belle Vue Bank - old 638 route to terminus (Ryton or Crawcrook).
Can't see the need for it to go via Wrekenton or Harlow Green due to the increase in services in those areas.

(08 Sep 2013, 6:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote Ah the 638, hasn't been mentioned for a while.

As others have said, it was always busy, particularly on the Galleries - Sunderland section.
The fact that section still exists, is enough to tell me the demand is still there.

I remember the section between the Galleries and Low Fell wasn't that well used, however it still provided vital links for short hops. Unfortunately this section was never replaced - with passengers relying on what had been left after the cull in Washington and a number of services beyond Blackfell.

Beyond Low Fell, obviously the 69 still exists - but I can't comment on the 638 loadings.

Edit. I can vaguely remember that duplicate service. One was just a short run if I remember correctly though.

yes short run, I think the duplicate only started at fatfield area if im right, used to be in the 638 timetable but at the bottom saying additional service run from Fatfield to Sunderland, both 638 buses were jammed packed though. Im just trying to remember what the bus was used after it got into Parklane bus station.

(08 Sep 2013, 7:39 pm)cbma06 wrote yes short run, I think the duplicate only started at fatfield area if im right, used to be in the 638 timetable but at the bottom saying additional service run from Fatfield to Sunderland, both 638 buses were jammed packed though. Im just trying to remember what the bus was used after it got into Parklane bus station.

I think your right about it starting from Fatfield.
Once it got to Park Lane, I imagine it running onto a local scholars (would have arrived into Park Lane about 8.25ish) or a local Sunderland service.
Thinking about it, I wonder if it worked one of the Sunderland - Washington workers services before then, positioning it nicely for a run back to Sunderland?

As well as those 638s at 7.55ish, the 777 would also run busy 30mins later.

Although with the withdrawl on the 24 there has been a decrease in frequency, so perhaps an Hourly Service wouldn't do any harm.

Here are my suggestions

Washington - Oxclose - Blackfell - Eighton Banks - Wrekenton - Harlow Green - Low Fell - Bensham - Lobily Hill - Whickam - Blaydon - Winlaton

or

Washington - Oxclose - Blackfell - Springwell - Springwell Estate - Leam Lane Estate - Beacon Lough Estate - Queen Elizabeth Hospital - Low Fell - Team Valley - Bensham - Lobily Hill - Whickam - Blaydon - Winlaton

(08 Sep 2013, 7:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote Washington - Oxclose - Blackfell - Springwell - Cotemede - Meresyde - Colegate - Whealcroft - QE Hosp - Beacon Lough - Kells Lane - Beaconsfield Road - Belle Vue Bank - old 638 route to terminus (Ryton or Crawcrook).
Can't see the need for it to go via Wrekenton or Harlow Green due to the increase in services in those areas.

If it did go to Wrekenton it would reinstate a link between Wrekenton and the section of Durham Road between Harlow Green Bridge and Low Fell Library, which hasn't been there ever since the 27A was withdrawn.

Whether that link is "vital" I don't know but it did exist for donkey's years under the 27A, and before that on the 25.

(09 Sep 2013, 6:22 pm)big mac wrote If it did go to Wrekenton it would reinstate a link between Wrekenton and the section of Durham Road between Harlow Green Bridge and Low Fell Library, which hasn't been there ever since the 27A was withdrawn.

Whether that link is "vital" I don't know but it did exist for donkey's years under the 27A, and before that on the 25.

Completely forgot about that bit to be honest.
How many stops are we talking about that aren't covered between Harlow Green and Low Fell Library? 3-4?
The one on the bridge, the Jolly Miller, Appledore Gardens and the library? Not sure if I have imagined one or two there mind...

(09 Sep 2013, 6:31 pm)Andreos1 wrote Completely forgot about that bit to be honest.
How many stops are we talking about that aren't covered between Harlow Green and Low Fell Library? 3-4?
The one on the bridge, the Jolly Miller, Appledore Gardens and the library? Not sure if I have imagined one or two there mind...

It's three each way. One at Low Fell Library/Lyndhurst. one near the Stone Trough (or Jolly Miller as it used to be), and one near Harlow Green Bridge.

Idea's for NEXUS services:

353 - Kingston Park - Airport - Killingworth - Four Lane Ends St Nicholas
Hospital - Kenton - Kingston Park - Hourly - 7 days a week (Hourly Evenings and Sundays)
-----------------
516/558 -

516 - Heworth - Fellgate - Seaburn - Boldon Colliery - Cleadon - South Shields – The Coast - South Tyneside District Hospital - every 30 mins - 7 days a week (Hourly Evenings and Sundays)

--------

37/73 - with a few changes -

37 - Doxford park - East Herrington - A19 - Washington Galleries - Concord - Castletown - Hylton College - Southwick - Wheatchef - Park lane - Durham road - Doxford park - Every 30 mins - Monday - Saturday only

37/73 - with a few changes -

37 - Doxford park - East Herrington - A19 - Washington Galleries - Concord - Castletown - Hylton College - Southwick - Wheatchef - Park lane - Durham road - Doxford park - Every 30 mins - Monday - Saturday only

That would be an epic journey for someone from, say, Herrington Burn to go back to Doxford Park

(14 Sep 2013, 10:26 am)fozzovmurton wrote That would be an epic journey for someone from, say, Herrington Burn to go back to Doxford Park

I'd say every 30 Minutes in both directions would be better

(14 Sep 2013, 9:25 am)Michael wrote Idea's for NEXUS services:


37/73 - with a few changes -

37 - Doxford park - East Herrington - A19 - Washington Galleries - Concord - Castletown - Hylton College - Southwick - Wheatchef - Park lane - Durham road - Doxford park - Every 30 mins - Monday - Saturday only

Whos going to pay for this service?, Nexus wont pay for the service as theres already links available from commercial services, Nexus don't have that much money to do secured services as there budget have been slashed and since bus companies are deciding to cut services as the services don't line there pockets and the foot fall goes onto Nexus, and Nexus can only do so much. This is why QCS came about as year after year the bus companies are deciding that certain bus services is not worth it.

I remember not long ago that GNE took on the 141 (Ryhope to Houghton) and the 37 commercially from Nexus and ran the 37 from Sunderland to Washington via Doxford Park and ran the 38 from Sunderland to Houghton, both services provided 30 minute service between Sunderland and Herrington Burn while the 37 continued to Washington and the 38 continued to Houghton, and in the end GNE withdrew the old secured sections as there was no income for GNE to continue commercially, that's why Nexus had to re secure the 37 again between Doxford Park and Washington.

I think the public/passengers needs awake up call about bus services, Nexus should withdraw all the secured bus services to show the passengers and public how much there have to depend on the council and Nexus to fund secured bus services, and fend there anger towards bus companies putting huge profits infront of passengers needs.

Whilst sitting in Galleries Bus Station yesterday for an Hour and 15 Minutes waiting for 4961 to come in, I noticed 2 or 3 of the Lime 8 were running upto 20 Minutes Late. This isn't the first time I have noticed this either whilst hanging about the Galleries. So here's my suggestion.

8A - Chester le Street - Washington Galleries - Waterview Park - Royal Hospital - Sunderland Interchange

This would be a short working of the 8 running every 30 minutes alongside the 8 to create a combined every 15 minutes service

(14 Sep 2013, 2:44 pm)cbma06 wrote I think the public/passengers needs awake up call about bus services, Nexus should withdraw all the secured bus services to show the passengers and public how much there have to depend on the council and Nexus to fund secured bus services, and fend there anger towards bus companies putting huge profits infront of passengers needs.

I understand the point you're trying to make here but do you really think, PR wise, that this is the best statement for Nexus/TWITA to make? It comes across as spiteful and would probably do more damage than good.

(14 Sep 2013, 5:16 pm)AdamY wrote I understand the point you're trying to make here but do you really think, PR wise, that this is the best statement for Nexus/TWITA to make? It comes across as spiteful and would probably do more damage than good.

There already made the announcement about if the QCS doesn't go ahead that the outcome could be the withdrawl of all secured work, I don't think it comes along being spiteful as its the truth, as Stagecoach already said short while ago that there would take all there buses and sack the drivers and sell the land off if the local authorities go ahead with the proposed QCS, just that the passengers should know how much of there bus services are secured by Nexus and paid for by Nexus.

Every year more and more bus services are having to be secured if possible by Nexus, since this is so then there should take over the bus services.

(14 Sep 2013, 5:29 pm)cbma06 wrote There already made the announcement about if the QCS doesn't go ahead that the outcome could be the withdrawl of all secured work, I don't think it comes along being spiteful as its the truth, as Stagecoach already said short while ago that there would take all there buses and sack the drivers and sell the land off if the local authorities go ahead with the proposed QCS, just that the passengers should know how much of there bus services are secured by Nexus and paid for by Nexus.

Every year more and more bus services are having to be secured if possible by Nexus, since this is so then there should take over the bus services.

Yes, but there's a huge difference in saying that secured services could be withdrawn if QCS doesn't go ahead and withdrawing all secured services just to make a political point of saying 'where would you be without us'. That's how it would come across as spiteful just as Stagecoach's POV also comes across as spiteful.

(14 Sep 2013, 2:44 pm)cbma06 wrote I think the public/passengers needs awake up call about bus services, Nexus should withdraw all the secured bus services to show the passengers and public how much there have to depend on the council and Nexus to fund secured bus services, and fend there anger towards bus companies putting huge profits infront of passengers needs.

I think in terms of some of the 'Nexus Bus' and 'Taxi Bus' services, I feel that some of them should be withdrawn. For example, when there was a discussion about the TB14 and the fact it carries less than 10 people per month - is this really an appropriate use of money?

Had a thought regarding the evening runs of the M1, which currently run between Heworth and Fallowfield way. Looking at the timetable, GNE currently run this with a PVR of 1.

My suggestion would be to curtail the evening M1 runs at Washington Galleries, and interwork with a short service 8 between The Galleries and Chester Le Street, but serving Fallowfield Way and Fatfield Riverside rather than straight down Biddick Lane. The service would accept through-fares to Fallowfield Way, so that those currently served don't lose out.

Below are the current departures/arrivals/running times for each.

The Galleries to Heworth (M1)
D: 2038* 2117 2147 2217 2247 2317
A: 2104 2134 2204 2234 2304 2334
26 17 17 17 17 17

Heworth to The Galleries (M1)
D: 2008 2038 2108 2138 2208 2238 2308 2338
A: 2029 2059 2129 2159 2229 2259 2329 2359
22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22

The Galleries to Chester Le Street (8)
D: 1859 1918
A: 1918 1937
19 19

Chester Le Street to The Galleries (8)
D: 1822 1852
A: 1842 1912
20 20

As you can see it would be quite comfortable to run such an interworking service by increasing the PVR to 2. The outward M1 trips from Heworth to The Galleries at that time are still quite heavily used, although the opposite way not so much so. Hence the difference in running time. I do believe there's enough people use the Heworth to The Galleries section to more than cover the cost of running at a PVR of 2.

Any thoughts?

(14 Sep 2013, 8:29 pm)aureolin wrote Had a thought regarding the evening runs of the M1, which currently run between Heworth and Fallowfield way. Looking at the timetable, GNE currently run this with a PVR of 1.

It's currently a PVR of 2 with a half-hourly service during the evening between Heworth and Fallowfield Way. I do like the idea though!

(14 Sep 2013, 8:29 pm)aureolin wrote Had a thought regarding the evening runs of the M1, which currently run between Heworth and Fallowfield way. Looking at the timetable, GNE currently run this with a PVR of 1.

My suggestion would be to curtail the evening M1 runs at Washington Galleries, and interwork with a short service 8 between The Galleries and Chester Le Street, but serving Fallowfield Way and Fatfield Riverside rather than straight down Biddick Lane. The service would accept through-fares to Fallowfield Way, so that those currently served don't lose out.

Below are the current departures/arrivals/running times for each.


As you can see it would be quite comfortable to run such an interworking service by increasing the PVR to 2. The outward M1 trips from Heworth to The Galleries at that time are still quite heavily used, although the opposite way not so much so. Hence the difference in running time. I do believe there's enough people use the Heworth to The Galleries section to more than cover the cost of running at a PVR of 2.

Any thoughts?

I like the Idea, but is there any demand for the 8 on a night after 6pm between Washington and Chester le Street. I remember there used to be an 8 on a Sunday a few years back using WSS MPD's, perhaps on a Sunday would be better.