(05 Oct 2013, 9:14 am)Wellsey18 wrote The thing is the 58 is at its busiest at peak times so mornings between 8-9 then at nights between 4 and 6, just because the bus is going to be packed at these times doesn't justify gne buying double deckers for the service, the versas will be great during the day because its still a well used service, but its not so well used that it would need deckers or bigger single deckers, you look back at when they used citaros they were only ever jam packed at peak times

Well, not been a regular passenger on the 58 (think I've been on once!), it would seem going by everyone's comment that peak times it gets really busy, but it's just decent during the day. So maybe extra buses at peak times are the answer?

8309 drifter 60 destination blind still not fixed its like a 70s disco lol

I'm just back a few days I had missed this with been too busy discussing the eesypeazy's idea for the T&W Metro. So there has been some very interesting information on changes been added on from previous updates.

Rob Wrote: I shall edit this post with a list of movements.

Citaro 5358 – 5368 filling the void on MetroLINK / Connections 4 service, will allow the following will occur:
Scania 4956, 4957, 4958, 4959 and 4960 will move to Chester-le-Street for 28/28A services, to be branded in 2/3 weeks.
Scania 4961, 4962 and 4963 are due to remain at Washington as allocated Northern vehicles.
Scania 4964 and 4965 will move to Deptford as allocated Northern vehicles.
Scania 4966 will move to Gateshead as an allocated Northern vehicle.

811.5 metre Streetlite for Drifter service 60
8302 to 8305 are destined for Lambton Worm services 34/34A.
8306 to 8309 are destined for Simplicity, providing a 10 minute 39 service.

8 10.8 metre Streetlite for Saltwell Park services 53/54
8294 to 8301 are now destined for South Tyne services 88/88A.

17 Volvo B9/Wright Gemini for Coblalt Clipper services
Mercedes Citaro 5331 to 5238 are destined for Pronto services X21.
6 Scania Omnicity are expected to move to Whey-Aye-Five-0 services 50/50A.
4 Scania Omnicity are expected to move to Stanley for services X30


cbma06 Wrote: I thought the Cobalt Citaro's will be going on the service 35 series, so the 35 will be all Citaro's.

There should put the Cobalt Citaro's on the X35, as the X35 needing an upgrade.

Kuyoyo Wrote:
Ok then, explain how the B7TLs on Pronto would then be replaced? The whole reason the Citaros are going on there, in effect replacing Olympians.


I'm personally quite happy to see one of my other Local Routes getting an upgrade in the form of the 50, as I think it long overdue with all the issues GNE have had with the Solars on the 50 over past few years, I have lost count the amount of times I have seen one them broken down, Hopefully it will also maintain it's Current Branding which is on the Solars, but on the Omnicities.

As for the Citaros going on the X21 and 4 Omnicities going on the X30, From memory was it not mentioned that GNE were supposed be getting 02/03 AND 53reg Geminis from Go-Ahead London off there Service 11, which now has NB4L's, for both the X21 and X30/X31/X70 and X71, Which would then allowed for as Kuyoyo said for the Olympians to be Withdrawn which from a Personal Standpoint would be more Logical. As from my Exp of using these Services they can tend to get quite busy. This would then allow for the Citaros to go on the X35 and Omnicities onto the FAB57 Possibly with a Northern Spare following in toll from Percy Main to make up the Numbers.

And then onto the M2/M3, How many of the South Tyne Cadets are actually Knackered, 3 or 4 possibly judging by how many WSS Mpd's end up on the 88/88A on a Daily Basis. So looking at the M2/M3 PVR on Paper I think it'll end up using Solars 4961/2/3 along with Renowns 4912/3 and whatever South Tyne Cadets that are not "Dead" on the Day. So there will be a right mix I reckon.

And finally can anyone give an Update on whether GNE are still getting the Citaro K on Demonstration for the Q1/Q2 which was mentioned a few months back. As I think it should be trialled on the M2/M3 also if the original rumour was true.

(05 Oct 2013, 8:07 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I'm just back a few days I had missed this with been too busy discussing the eesypeazy's idea for the T&W Metro. So there has been some very interesting information on changes been added on from previous updates.

Rob Wrote: I shall edit this post with a list of movements.

Citaro 5358 – 5368 filling the void on MetroLINK / Connections 4 service, will allow the following will occur:
Scania 4956, 4957, 4958, 4959 and 4960 will move to Chester-le-Street for 28/28A services, to be branded in 2/3 weeks.
Scania 4961, 4962 and 4963 are due to remain at Washington as allocated Northern vehicles.
Scania 4964 and 4965 will move to Deptford as allocated Northern vehicles.
Scania 4966 will move to Gateshead as an allocated Northern vehicle.

8 10.8 metre Streetlite for Drifter service 60
8302 to 8305 are destined for Lambton Worm services 34/34A.
8306 to 8309 are destined for Simplicity, providing a 10 minute 39 service.

8 11.5 metre Streetlite for Saltwell Park services 53/54
8294 to 8301 are now destined for South Tyne services 88/88A.

17 Volvo B9/Wright Gemini for Coblalt Clipper services
Mercedes Citaro 5331 to 5238 are destined for Pronto services X21.
6 Scania Omnicity are expected to move to Whey-Aye-Five-0 services 50/50A.
4 Scania Omnicity are expected to move to Stanley for services X30


cbma06 Wrote: I thought the Cobalt Citaro's will be going on the service 35 series, so the 35 will be all Citaro's.

There should put the Cobalt Citaro's on the X35, as the X35 needing an upgrade.

Kuyoyo Wrote:
Ok then, explain how the B7TLs on Pronto would then be replaced? The whole reason the Citaros are going on there, in effect replacing Olympians.


I'm personally quite happy to see one of my other Local Routes getting an upgrade in the form of the 50, as I think it long overdue with all the issues GNE have had with the Solars on the 50 over past few years, I have lost count the amount of times I have seen one them broken down, Hopefully it will also maintain it's Current Branding which is on the Solars, but on the Omnicities.

As for the Citaros going on the X21 and 4 Omnicities going on the X30, From memory was it not mentioned that GNE were supposed be getting 02/03 AND 53reg Geminis from Go-Ahead London off there Service 11, which now has NB4L's, for both the X21 and X30/X31/X70 and X71, Which would then allowed for as Kuyoyo said for the Olympians to be Withdrawn which from a Personal Standpoint would be more Logical. As from my Exp of using these Services they can tend to get quite busy. This would then allow for the Citaros to go on the X35 and Omnicities onto the FAB57 Possibly with a Northern Spare following in toll from Percy Main to make up the Numbers.

And then onto the M2/M3, How many of the South Tyne Cadets are actually Knackered, 3 or 4 possibly judging by how many WSS Mpd's end up on the 88/88A on a Daily Basis. So looking at the M2/M3 PVR on Paper I think it'll end up using Solars 4961/2/3 along with Renowns 4912/3 and whatever South Tyne Cadets that are not "Dead" on the Day. So there will be a right mix I reckon.

And finally can anyone give an Update on whether GNE are still getting the Citaro K on Demonstration for the Q1/Q2 which was mentioned a few months back. As I think it should be trialled on the M2/M3 also if the original rumour was true.

Just a couple of items to update you:

11.5 Streetlite will be for Drifter and the 10.8 will be for Saltwell Park.
It was just a bus enthusiast rumour about vehicles coming up from London - It is not happening.
It has never been discussed the Citaro's going onto the X35

(05 Oct 2013, 8:07 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote As for the Citaros going on the X21 and 4 Omnicities going on the X30, From memory was it not mentioned that GNE were supposed be getting 02/03 AND 53reg Geminis from Go-Ahead London off there Service 11, which now has NB4L's, for both the X21 and X30/X31/X70 and X71, Which would then allowed for as Kuyoyo said for the Olympians to be Withdrawn which from a Personal Standpoint would be more Logical. As from my Exp of using these Services they can tend to get quite busy. This would then allow for the Citaros to go on the X35 and Omnicities onto the FAB57 Possibly with a Northern Spare following in toll from Percy Main to make up the Numbers.

I'm sure Rob and Citaro have previously stated there is no ex-London stock coming. Plus the X35 doesn't justify Citaro from what I've personally seen (and when I've used it, admittedly only between Hartlepool and Peterlee).

(05 Oct 2013, 8:13 pm)citaro5284 wrote Just a couple of items to update you:

11.5 Streetlite will be for Drifter and the 10.8 will be for Saltwell Park.
It was just a bus enthusiast rumour about vehicles coming up from London - It is not happening.
It has never been discussed the Citaro's going onto the X35

I know the Citaros for the X35 wasn't discussed as an actual rumour but it was discussed on here when I said I thought they might end up on there come January, which was just a Prediction and Nothing More. Obviously now it appears they are going on the X21.

And it's a shame there is no Buses coming up from London as GNE could do with more Deckers with the Olympians and ELC Loynes due to be Withdrawn.

(05 Oct 2013, 8:14 pm)Kuyoyo wrote I'm sure Rob and Citaro have previously stated there is no ex-London stock coming. Plus the X35 doesn't justify Citaro from what I've personally seen (and when I've used it, admittedly only between Hartlepool and Peterlee).

Sunderland to Peterlee does seem to get a Justifiable amount of Passengers from my Exp of using the X35 if it's been from Houghton heading into Sunderland or going up to Peterlee.

I've wondered what the thought process was around ordering the two different length StreetLites? Is this to do with cost or to do with the intended route for the shorter model?

Also, Wright quote that the 11.5m has 45 seats as oppose to the 41 in a 10.8m vehicle, but both have a combined seating/standing capacity of 70. Bizarrely the 10.8m model is quoted as being able to accommodate 13 more standees than the 11.5m model.

(05 Oct 2013, 8:26 pm)aureolin wrote I've wondered what the thought process was around ordering the two different length StreetLites? Is this to do with cost or to do with the intended route for the shorter model?

Also, Wright quote that the 11.5m has 45 seats as oppose to the 41 in a 10.8m vehicle, but both have a combined seating/standing capacity of 70. Bizarrely the 10.8m model is quoted as being able to accommodate 13 more standees than the 11.5m model.

Surely the 10.8m should have a smaller combined seating/standing capacity compared to the 11.5m

(05 Oct 2013, 9:21 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote Surely the 10.8m should have a smaller combined seating/standing capacity compared to the 11.5m

You'd think so, but I'm just quoting the figures Wright provide on their website: http://www.wright-bus.com/streetlite/options.html

(05 Oct 2013, 10:24 pm)aureolin wrote You'd think so, but I'm just quoting the figures Wright provide on their website: http://www.wright-bus.com/streetlite/options.html

Might well be to do with the interior layout including grab rails etc. Possibly the longer 11.5m models have a 'no standing' zone like certain SB220s did (the Sheffield ones with ELC body did)?? Just a guess

Edit: Another point of discussion is the use of the Citaros on the X21. I can fully understand the want to upgrade the quality on this route but some of the loadings will be way too high for these to handle. They currently use deckers and one has to be duped from Spennymoor upto Durham due to college students.... How are Citaros meant to handle loadings over 100?

(05 Oct 2013, 10:31 pm)tyresmoke wrote Might well be to do with the interior layout including grab rails etc. Possibly the longer 11.5m models have a 'no standing' zone like certain SB220s did (the Sheffield ones with ELC body did)?? Just a guess

Edit: Another point of discussion is the use of the Citaros on the X21. I can fully understand the want to upgrade the quality on this route but some of the loadings will be way too high for these to handle. They currently use deckers and one has to be duped from Spennymoor upto Durham due to college students.... How are Citaros meant to handle loadings over 100?

Could use 3963 and 3964, I know 3964 is branded TTX and it's a Spare but how often does it actually see use on the X9/X10, It's off route more than anything else. Take today for example 3964 was Parked on the Layover at Gateshead when I passed through today at around 1pm, it was still sitting there when I came back through just after 4pm.

(05 Oct 2013, 10:59 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote Could use 3963 and 3964, I know 3964 is branded TTX and it's a Spare but how often does it actually see use on the X9/X10, It's off route more than anything else. Take today for example 3964 was Parked on the Layover at Gateshead when I passed through today at around 1pm, it was still sitting there when I came back through just after 4pm.

3963 is the branded spare. It does actually see regular use plus if you take those 2 away what are you going to use as backup on the X9/X10? Scanias are no good capacity wise......

(05 Oct 2013, 10:59 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote Could use 3963 and 3964, I know 3964 is branded TTX and it's a Spare but how often does it actually see use on the X9/X10, It's off route more than anything else. Take today for example 3964 was Parked on the Layover at Gateshead when I passed through today at around 1pm, it was still sitting there when I came back through just after 4pm.

3963 had been on X9, whilst 6047 had a defective Destination Blind replaced. Once 6047 was ready, it went on X9.

There should put the Cobalt Citaro's on the X35, as the X35 needing an upgrade.


X35 will not get better upgraded vehicles as revenue does not justify the expense. A service that cannot sustain Evening/Sunday service will always get castoffs when other services are upgraded. X35 only got Scanias because the Caetano Darts were unable to keep to time and it was uneconomical to add an extra bus to the pvr. The solution was faster buses, ie Scania.

Diversion News

Closure of Felling Square 6th October

The Split Crow Road/Coldwell Lane junction in Felling will be closed for resurfacing from 6th October 2013 for up to 2 weeks.
During the closure, Services 51/52/52A, 58/58X, 68, 69, 93/94 will be diverted away from the area and a shuttle bus funded by Gateshead Council will operate between Heworth and Felling allowing interchange with the affected services.

Further closure of Waterville Road Metro Bridge from 3rd October.

Further overnight closures are to take place on the section of Waterville Road at the Metro Bridge to allow repair works to be completed from 3rd October

Houghton Feast Celebrations take place between Friday 4th and Monday 7th October 2013.

Due to a number of road closures around the Houghton-le-Spring area in connection with the 2013 Houghton Feast, bus services will be diverted as follows:

Partial Closure of A690 - 6th October

Sunderland City Council have advised that resurfacing works are due to take place on the A690 Durham Road/Herrington Road/Silksworth Road roundabout.

It may also be worth noting that normal stands will be used again in Gateshead Interchange from Tuesday, 8th October 2013. There was a sign up yesterday.

Couldn't the existing B7's that stay at Chester support extra X21 workings? (if needed)

For me the X22 doesn't really need a DD working aside Christmas, its rarely busy.

Going back to the 2007 Omnicity 21 discussion, stagecoachbusdepot was being incredibly polite when he described it as an 'unmitigated disaster'

Quite franky, I'd have sacked the person who made those decisions over the Angel on the spot.

(06 Oct 2013, 11:05 am)gtomlinson wrote Quite franky, I'd have sacked the person who made those decisions over the Angel on the spot.

MD cannot sack himself

I love it how ex-London stock keeps getting mentioned. Especially how it hadn't been mentioned on here previous to me suggesting it could be something they would look at, with all the Boris Buses coming into Go Ahead London. I did clearly mark the post as speculation though.

More wild speculation: The B10s on the Lime could potentially be replaced by HSTs when East Coast get new stock.

(06 Oct 2013, 11:23 am)aureolin wrote More wild speculation: The B10s on the Lime could potentially be replaced by HSTs when East Coast get new stock.

Awwwww...I hope it is not just speculation. You could definitely get your bike on then.

(06 Oct 2013, 11:19 am)citaro5284 wrote MD cannot sack himself

He can resign with grace

Or mutual consent...I reckon that's why he went on that branding spree, ignore the fact they are the wrong buses...oooooh pretty colours!

(06 Oct 2013, 11:27 am)gtomlinson wrote He can resign with grace

Seriously, would you resign from your job for 1 mistake. I agree it was not the best decision, but Peter also came up with some cracking ideas and turned GNE round when it was heading in the opposite direction.

(06 Oct 2013, 11:29 am)citaro5284 wrote Seriously, would you resign from your job for 1 mistake. I agree it was not the best decision, but Peter also came up with some cracking ideas and turned GNE round when it was heading in the opposite direction.

I have to agree, he came up with the great idea of branding routes and making "better" services, which has worked on most routes.

(06 Oct 2013, 11:29 am)citaro5284 wrote Seriously, would you resign from your job for 1 mistake. I agree it was not the best decision, but Peter also came up with some cracking ideas and turned GNE round when it was heading in the opposite direction.

More than one, in context, if the head of M&S or another major business made such a mistake I imagine they'd quickly be out of the door.

I do think PH contribution is overrated to an extent, lots of routes were culled, a fair few bad business decisions in terms of stock and routes, the benefit of a recession driving people out of cars and into buses and replacing a fleet at the end of its life with shinier newer vehicles.

Has branding been a good thing? Potentially yes, potentially no. There's a questionable benefit

(06 Oct 2013, 11:33 am)gtomlinson wrote More than one, in context, if the head of M&S or another major business made such a mistake I imagine they'd quickly be out of the door.

I do think PH contribution is overrated to an extent, lots of routes were culled, a fair few bad business decisions in terms of stock and routes, the benefit of a recession driving people out of cars and into buses and replacing a fleet at the end of its life with shinier newer vehicles.

Has branding been a good thing? Potentially yes, potentially no. There's a questionable benefit

In his defence - I think the branding actually worked very well and was adhered to far more under his management than it is now. PH understood the purpose of branding and took it seriously - unlike present management appear to.

Of course GNE aren't the only ones to buy inappropriately sized vehicles only to then have to backtrack - its not that long ago that the 12/38/39/40/62/63 in Newcastle all had crammed single decks every day after the push to get rid of a load of ex-Busways deckers.

(06 Oct 2013, 1:18 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Of course GNE aren't the only ones to buy inappropriately sized vehicles only to then have to backtrack - its not that long ago that the 12/38/39/40/62/63 in Newcastle all had crammed single decks every day after the push to get rid of a load of ex-Busways deckers.

And you've got the 685 service as another recent good example - passenger numbers often justify a vehicle with a coach capacity, but are now on Omnis and Enviros.

(06 Oct 2013, 1:38 pm)Daniel wrote And you've got the 685 service as another recent good example - passenger numbers often justify a vehicle with a coach capacity, but are now on Omnis and Enviros.

That was on reliability issues though and for many users on the route the coach was a fairly awkward thing to use.

The service obviously doesn't justify any investment in terms of new coach vehicles

(06 Oct 2013, 1:54 pm)gtomlinson wrote That was on reliability issues though and for many users on the route the coach was a fairly awkward thing to use.

The service obviously doesn't justify any investment in terms of new coach vehicles

Is that not the case with GNE's 58 too?

(06 Oct 2013, 1:57 pm)Daniel wrote Is that not the case with GNE's 58 too?

The 28/28A's to maybe?

Last few time's iv'e used them they have being at least 10-15 mins late


Which of the MPD/SPD's will be getting withdrawn first? (sorry if its being ask, i can't find it) once all the new buses are in Service?

don't forget the South Tyne 88/88A also