(08 Jun 2016, 5:29 pm)mb134 wrote Ta, I'll check them out later on.

I think majority of my friends are voting 'In', and give me 'racist' comments on a daily basis as I show some support for leaving.

Leaning towards leaving, doesn't mean anyone is a racist. It does my head in to think I am similar to the likes of Farage, Johnson, IDS and Gove, all because I want to leave too.

It all depends on the agenda you believe in. As an example, the RMT are encouraging members to vote to leave - for totally different reasons to those encouraged by UKIP.

(08 Jun 2016, 5:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote It must be pointed out that us mere mortals weren't involved in electing Junker.

But our elected representatives did which, as Adrian eludes, is not entirely different to how cabinet positions (once again, both Nationally and Locally) are decided here in the UK. 

It must also be pointed out that we don't directly elect our heads of state. Lizzie aside, David Cameron is only the elected Member of Parliament for constituency of Witney. It is only by default that he happens to be the Prime Minister as us mere mortals (especially those in the North East) weren't involved in electing him either

Locally, nationally or supranationally - the application of democracy is arguably quite thin.

(08 Jun 2016, 5:33 pm)Adrian wrote The brexit NHS references are around TTIP. I'd suggest reading up on TTIP, but the NHS is likely to be excluded anyway. That doesn't stop, in my opinion, TTIP being a really bad thing for the UK. 

However, if we left, then there's the potential a Tory majority Government could establish a TTIP scheme independently. Labour are opposed to it, and Jeremy Corbyn has vowed to kill such an agreement in Parliament.

On the other hand, John Major, former Tory PM, has put this on record. He reckons "the NHS would be as safe as a pet hamster in the presence of a hungry python if Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith rose to power following Brexit". It speaks volumes, for someone who worked for Mrs Thatcher.

I saw Corbyns speech about TTIP the other day, and subsequently did some brief reading around it, it most certainly does not sound like a good thing.

One thing that has been on my mind throughout this Referendum campaign is,  will Cameron stay as PM if we vote to leave, especially after supporting the 'Remain' side so strongly? If he doesn't stay on, am I right in thinking a General Election would occur?

(08 Jun 2016, 5:46 pm)mb134 wrote I saw Corbyns speech about TTIP the other day, and subsequently did some brief reading around it, it most certainly does not sound like a good thing.

One thing that has been on my mind throughout this Referendum campaign is,  will Cameron stay as PM if we vote to leave, especially after supporting the 'Remain' side so strongly? If he doesn't stay on, am I right in thinking a General Election would occur?

No - a General Election can only be called every 5 years (due to fixed term Parliaments now), upon dissolution from the Monarch, or as the result of a vote of no confidence. Tories have a majority, so that latter is unlikely to happen or succeed unless called from within. I don't think they'd do that, as I think they'd just knife him like they did to Thatcher. That'd give the party the ability to elect a new leader, and subsequently a Prime Minister - alas the Blair / Brown situation back in 2007.

My opinion is that they'll knife him, if we vote to remain in.

(08 Jun 2016, 5:41 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But our elected representatives did which, as Adrian eludes, is not entirely different to how cabinet positions (once again, both Nationally and Locally) are decided here in the UK. 

It must also be pointed out that we don't directly elect our heads of state. Lizzie aside, David Cameron is only the elected Member of Parliament for constituency of Witney. It is only by default that he happens to be the Prime Minister as us mere mortals (especially those in the North East) weren't involved in electing him either

Locally, nationally or supranationally - the application of democracy is arguably quite thin.

But it is different. The public and party members (of which it is easy to become), are involved at all stages of voting a prospective MP, leader and potential PM. 
Whilst the people of Whitney may have voted Cameron in as their MP, we all know that they did so as they thought it was the right choice. Just as Labour party members chose Corbyn as their leader and potential PM.
We can just as easily vote them out.

Whilst we may have a say in who our MEP is going to be, we know that is the end of the road as far as public involvement and influence goes.

(08 Jun 2016, 5:54 pm)Adrian wrote No - a General Election can only be called every 5 years (due to fixed term Parliaments now), upon dissolution from the Monarch, or as the result of a vote of no confidence. Tories have a majority, so that latter is unlikely to happen or succeed unless called from within. I don't think they'd do that, as I think they'd just knife him like they did to Thatcher. That'd give the party the ability to elect a new leader, and subsequently a Prime Minister - alas the Blair / Brown situation back in 2007.

My opinion is that they'll knife him, if we vote to remain in.

Ah okay. The reason I thought it occurred is that I seem to recall studying something like that happening in History last year, though I can't remember who, when or what happened.

So, if they elect a new leader, no General Election occurs, we just get a new PM?

(08 Jun 2016, 6:11 pm)mb134 wrote Ah okay. The reason I thought it occurred is that I seem to recall studying something like that happening in History last year, though I can't remember who, when or what happened.

So, if they elect a new leader, no General Election occurs, we just get a new PM?

James Callaghan in 1979(?) most likely? Labour minority Government at the time.

Yes - just a new PM.

(08 Jun 2016, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote But it is different. The public and party members (of which it is easy to become), are involved at all stages of voting a prospective MP, leader and potential PM. 
Whilst the people of Whitney may have voted Cameron in as their MP, we all know that they did so as they thought it was the right choice. Just as Labour party members chose Corbyn as their leader and potential PM.
We can just as easily vote them out.

Whilst we may have a say in who our MEP is going to be, we know that is the end of the road as far as public involvement and influence goes.

Going over the same ground here, but it's going to be a matter of opinion. I've absolutely no influence who Witney Conservatives and the constituents select and elect as their MP, nor do I have any say over Cameron becoming the Prime Minister as a result of his party gaining a Commons majority. 

The same as a Conservative party member has no influence over Labour elects as their leader. They can't join, become a supporter or affiliate to the Labour Party, under chapter 2 of the rule book.

Like I say though, it's a matter of opinion.

(08 Jun 2016, 6:21 pm)Adrian wrote James Callaghan in 1979(?) most likely? Labour minority Government at the time.

Yes - just a new PM.

We only studied 1906 (but had to learn a bit before as background) until Attlee, a quick flick through Wikipedia suggests it could have been MacDonald (1924) or Baldwin (1923-24), though I'm really not sure.

(08 Jun 2016, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote But it is different. The public and party members (of which it is easy to become), are involved at all stages of voting a prospective MP, leader and potential PM. 
Whilst the people of Whitney may have voted Cameron in as their MP, we all know that they did so as they thought it was the right choice. Just as Labour party members chose Corbyn as their leader and potential PM.
We can just as easily vote them out.

Whilst we may have a say in who our MEP is going to be, we know that is the end of the road as far as public involvement and influence goes.

Glad you bring up Corbyn and the Labour Leadership election here as, in my opinion, it exemplifies the lack of public and party involvement in choosing a party leader (and potential PM) due to the politicking of those in the Parliamentary Labour Party.

While Corbyn has the overwhelming support of party members, he certainly did not have the support of those responsible of putting him on the ballot paper. If the PLP didn't underestimate his popularity, with certain MP's nominating him despite having no intention of backing him, it's doubtful he would have made it as we've heard from the likes of Margaret Beckett and such. 

Party politics aside, this has a direct effect on the electorate as the will of the party is not reflected in its leader, or potentially, the PM. If Labour happens to win the next General Election, one can argue Corbyn's assention is accidental win due the nature of his appointment. If he ousted before then due to a vote of no confidence by the PLP, one can argue that his dismissal is against the will of party members and therefore undemocratic.

Either way, his position is dependant on the few and not the many.

(08 Jun 2016, 6:26 pm)Adrian wrote Going over the same ground here, but it's going to be a matter of opinion. I've absolutely no influence who Witney Conservatives and the constituents select and elect as their MP, nor do I have any say over Cameron becoming the Prime Minister as a result of his party gaining a Commons majority. 

The same as a Conservative party member has no influence over Labour elects as their leader. They can't join, become a supporter or affiliate to the Labour Party, under chapter 2 of the rule book.

Like I say though, it's a matter of opinion.

How is it opinion? Everything stated so far about the process has been fact. 
Whether it is about the people in Whitney, party members or the MEP's and the process involved in electing Junker.

The only opinion was about the levels of democracy involved.

Moving on, did you see Andrew Neil with Gideon tonight? If looks could kill, Neil would be a pile of ash now.

(08 Jun 2016, 6:42 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Glad you bring up Corbyn and the Labour Leadership election here as, in my opinion, it exemplifies the lack of public and party involvement in choosing a party leader (and potential PM) due to the politicking of those in the Parliamentary Labour Party.

While Corbyn has the overwhelming support of party members, he certainly did not have the support of those responsible of putting him on the ballot paper. If the PLP didn't underestimate his popularity with certain MP's nominating him despite having no intention of backing him, it's doubtful he would have made it as we've heard from the likes of Margaret Beckett and such. 

Party politics aside, this has a direct effect on the electorate as the will of the party is not reflected in its leader, or potentially, the PM. If Labour happens to win the next General Election, one can argue Corbyn's assertion is accidental win due the nature of his appointment. If he ousted before then due to a vote of no confidence by the PLP, one can argue that his dismissal is against the will of party members and therefore undemocratic.

Either way, his position is dependant on the few and not the many.

I thought the 'politics' behind the selecting of Corbyn as a candidate for party leadership, a joke. 
However, the majority of party members picked him in an open, democratic process and did so because presumably they think he will make a good leader and believe his policies will lead to an election victory. 

I agree with the point about a potential ousting and have stated something about that on here in the past. The irony being, that those involved in ousting him, may end up ousted themselves - this time by the public.

The deadline for registering to vote in the EU referendum has been extended, the government has said.
Cabinet Office minister Matt Hancock said the government would legislate to extend the cut-off until midnight on Thursday.
It follows a computer glitch which left some people unable to sign up before the original midnight Tuesday deadline.
The Electoral Commission urged people to sign up until the end of Thursday in order to vote on 23 June.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu...m-36480764

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-36467169

There were questions yesterday (mb134?), about a possible General Election.
Mark Mardell from the BBC, reckons there could be one before Christmas.

https://twitter.com/UKPressOnline/status...3461790720

20 years ago today, lots of protests against EU policy, during a summit in Sweden.

However, the shooting and stabbing of an MP during a surgery in West Yorkshire, puts the EU debate to one side today.
Hopefully she makes a full recovery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

Labour MP dies after being shot and stabbed in her constituency. Absolutely horrific news. Thoughts with her family.

(16 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm)beefcake wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

Labour MP dies after being shot and stabbed in her constituency. Absolutely horrific news. Thoughts with her family.

Just seen it on Twitter...

Shocking

R.I.P

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

(16 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm)beefcake wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

Labour MP dies after being shot and stabbed in her constituency. Absolutely horrific news. Thoughts with her family.

Shocking news, R.I.P

(16 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm)beefcake wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

Labour MP dies after being shot and stabbed in her constituency. Absolutely horrific news. Thoughts with her family.

Dignified and thoughtful response from her husband. (quoted here)
https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/7...7368080384

The actions of what appears to be a racist bigot against a woman doing the job she carried out so passionately have left 2 small children without their mum.

(16 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm)beefcake wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

Labour MP dies after being shot and stabbed in her constituency. Absolutely horrific news. Thoughts with her family.

Horrifying news. Thoughts are with her family and friends. 

It's disgusting that in a civilised society, someone can be murdered in cold blood on our streets. Not to mention doing one of the most important jobs of all; democratically elected to public duty, to represent her thousands of constituents on a national platform.

(16 Jun 2016, 7:33 pm)Adrian wrote Horrifying news. Thoughts are with her family and friends. 

It's disgusting that in a civilised society, someone can be murdered in cold blood on our streets. Not to mention doing one of the most important jobs of all; democratically elected to public duty, to represent her thousands of constituents on a national platform.

I second that Adrian...

Makes me sick, it is sad enough to hear about things like this in places like the Middle East or Central and Latin America, it is horrible when it happens in our own back yard.

Whoever did this and I believe the Police have someone for it, they should fry for it, whatever our political beliefs, we all need to stand together and unite against the kind of hatred we have seen on this terrible day...Sad enough a woman being murdered in cold blood, even sadder that her children lost there mother.

I have a little recollection of the last serving MP to die in office, Ian Gow, I believe, and iirc correctly, that was absolutely shocking as well ?

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(16 Jun 2016, 9:05 pm)MrFozz wrote I second that Adrian...

Makes me sick, it is sad enough to hear about things like this in places like the Middle East or Central and Latin America, it is horrible when it happens in our own back yard.

Whoever did this and I believe the Police have someone for it, they should fry for it, whatever our political beliefs, we all  need to stand together and unite against the kind of hatred we have seen on this terrible day...Sad enough a woman being murdered in cold blood, even sadder that her children lost there mother.

I have a little recollection of the last serving MP to die in office, Ian Gow, I believe, and iirc correctly, that was absolutely shocking as well ?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Apparently so
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politi...ed-8211824
Though there have been ohter, more recent attacks during parliamentary surgeries. I came across some stats, earlier, that 85% of MPs have been or felt physically threatened and about 1/3 have felt in real danger, at some point. Shocking statistics.

The thing that really chokes me up is that her kids are 3 and 5, now. It's only a few short years before they'll be browsing the Internet independently and able to read the horrific accounts of her attack

Anyone watching the remain debate with David Cameron?

Oh dear David.... tbh its not going well for him..........

(19 Jun 2016, 6:03 pm)Michael wrote Anyone watching the remain debate with David Cameron?

Oh dear David.... tbh its not going well for him..........

Nope - I'm sick of it all now to be honest. I've voted, so I'll not be watching anything else on it until the vote closes.

(19 Jun 2016, 6:14 pm)Adrian wrote Nope - I'm sick of it all now to be honest. I've voted, so I'll not be watching anything else on it until the vote closes.

I'm sick of hearing it to but i wanted to watch it as i wanted to know why they want me to stay but David is swinging me towards leaving, hes just hopeless and not answering questions.


The audience is asking questions which we all want to hear and hes just avoiding some and giving a total different answer..........



Sick of all the scaremongering from BOTH sides....we don't know what will happen if we leave, it could be the best decision ever but then it could be the worst....

(19 Jun 2016, 6:21 pm)Michael wrote I'm sick of hearing it to but i wanted to watch it as i wanted to know why they want me to stay but David is swinging me towards leaving, hes just hopeless and not answering questions.


The audience is asking questions which we all want to hear and hes just avoiding some and giving a total different answer..........



Sick of all the scaremongering from BOTH sides....we don't know what will happen if we leave, it could be the best decision ever but then it could be the worst....

Sadly I can't vote but personally I think leave

(19 Jun 2016, 6:32 pm)NK53 TKT wrote Sadly I can't vote but personally I think leave

David gave me no thoughts on why we should remain.... so it looks like I'll be voting leave.

(19 Jun 2016, 6:36 pm)Michael wrote David gave me no thoughts on why we should remain.... so it looks like I'll be voting leave.

Good for you, mind I'm not a fan of Gove

(19 Jun 2016, 6:14 pm)Adrian wrote Nope - I'm sick of it all now to be honest. I've voted, so I'll not be watching anything else on it until the vote closes.

Likewise. 

My mind was made up long before the scaremongering began and before the political heavyweights from either side were wheeled out. I don't think I've watched any of televised debates in the run-up to the referendum because, quite frankly, neither side has had anything new to say on the matter. The only remotely interesting thing in this campaign has been the Tory infighting which will almost certainly continue after votes have been cast and the dust has settled.

The problem with 'Project Fear' is that it becomes boring after a week; and only the weak-minded are taken in by the hysteria 'Project Fear' creates. Dig a little deeper and you'll see the arguments unravel right before your eyes. This, of course, applies to both the Remain and Leave camps.

Parliament was of course recalled today, to hear tributes to Jo Cox MP. The full sitting (about 1h15m in duration) can be found here - http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index...1725b1256e

I've just sat and watched it through, and it's full of really moving speeches from all corners of the house. Rather unusual, but warranted, MPs left the chamber to a huge round of applause.

I recommend watching, even if only listen to the keynote speeches at the start.

Stupid question but here it is anyway...

I signed up in April to vote in the EU referendum and the email said Sunderland Council would get back to me to tell me that i can vote but they haven't...

Does this mean i can still vote?


Here is part of the email:

Thanks for your application to be added to the electoral register or to update your details.

Your reference number is (removed my number)

We've sent your application to Sunderland City Council. They'll contact you as soon as possible to confirm you're registered to vote, or to ask for more information.

If you have any questions about your application, contact them using the details below.